| Author | Message | ||
     Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.253.221 |
Finally got around to reading this. Its qualities cannot be disputed: a beautifully written short novel - long novella, really - that is compelling every page, straight through to the end. I would recommend THE ROAD to others without question: I'd even say it's a must-read. All that being said... let me allow for a bit of critique.... SPOILERS The whole is indeed not a novel: it is a long short story, and so its necessarily "thin" as the novel it is bound and sold as. This is a journey fable like COMMEDIA or PILGRIM'S PROGRESS or (which I also read recently) A VOYAGE TO ARCTURUS: as such, in comparison, its thinness becomes apparent. THE ROAD centers on The Man and The Boy, who occasionally stumble across a fellow-stranded, but are mostly alone upon a burned out world, performing Hemingway-esque tasks that are detailed to a must-be-significant degree. We miss the wide range of characters and the exotic locales of other such journey-fables here; the contact with strange characters that challenge and enhance (ultimately) the maturity, growth, dare I say "arc," of the protagonist/s. That's the point with THE ROAD, yes, I know - this is set-up as a world post-all, with two lone survivors as our focus: they will mostly not see exotic locales, strange personages, nor exciting adventures. If one reads a one-sentence description - a father and son trek through a post-apocalyptic world - the image that is conjured in the mind, is exactly what you get here in this book (if anything, less of that mental imagery/expectations); as such, this is much more a genre piece, and hardly a ground-breaking work of fiction. I find a certain morbid - perverse even (and I cop to it myself) - fascination inherent in the post-apocalyptic genre: there seems to be a wicked glee, deep deep down, at the pretending of a world gone black as a cinder, empty but for a few bedraggled inhabitants, populated by horrors of one kind or another (usually zombies). This is the sore-licking imaginings of Hell, and as such it goes back to the most ancient stories (ODYSSEY, AENEID): here in THE ROAD, I found it to be just as morbidly perverse - McCarthy delights, secretly, in showing us the corpses in their cars, the wickedness of a baby on a spit or humans herded for their meat. (Is the horror genre itself, no more than base enjoyment in Hellish delights?...) But the whole springs from that child-like initial imagining: Hey dad, what if nuclear bombs destroyed everything, and only two people survived? What would those cars over there look like after a bomb blast, huh? What if people started eating each other after the bombs, 'cause there was nothing else to eat? What if, dad?... That seems to be the sum total of this novel: a weirdly morbid fantasy of a world mostly emptied of others, those left their humanity destroyed - to that degree, the novel is bitterly xenophobic to its core. The final coda is so tacked-on, it's inauthentic: The Boy suddenly stumbles upon good caring folk, the moment after The Man dies. A delirium of the dying Man?... One would have to mar the words on the page to come up with that. It's a desperate attempt of the writer to (pre-60's Hollywood-like) tack-on a "happy" ending, when the true ending cries out for a final horror - but only to be authentic to the cruel sadism already sand-castled to now. The Boy "learns" virtually nothing, to the very end - as a Bunyan Christian, or Everyman, he's tediously unswerving; The Man, learns little himself: he has a moment to do good to the final thief, reversing his spurning earlier of the lightning victim, but that's about it. The Man is the protag here, struggling to keep The Boy alive in order to keep himself alive, heading for a place that doesn't exist, trying to survive in a world that's void of people and resources, tracking in seeming circles until death can take them both. We are encouraged as readers to nurse pity; again, something truly Sade-istic, imagining the horrors of the lash, delighting and weeping in them at once... no lessons to be learned: just observers, watching things unspool, wind down, and end.... Again: that's the point of this novel. And again: that's why I conclude, for all its evident worth and inarguable qualities, in sum, THE ROAD is just not much more than a very thin genre novella.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
And one of the most emotionally wrenching novels of recent years. But hey, lets not think of emotional attachment to character in the review of a book.  | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.157.25.29 |
Enjoyed it, but did't like the style of the language. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.255.159 |
We are encouraged as readers to nurse pity... Did you not miss this line in my review, Weber?...  | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.74.96.200 |
That'll be Cormac Macarthy's book? I have it on unabridged audio on my mp3 player but haven't listened to it yet. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
You now seem to be applying your template theory to books as well as films. Stop it. This is a great book, a heartwrenching tale of a man's love for his son and vice versa. gary will be round to beat you up if you keep having a go at it. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Indeed. The best novel I have ever read. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
I said it was great. Critiquing it is like critiquing a chess game between two grandmasters - the "missteps," if you can call them that, are of a higher order altogether. No template to apply: if anything, the template's so securely in place, and so little varied from, that I have been forced to conclude this is much more a "genre" piece, than any kind of transformative, breakthrough novel. The "best novel you've ever read"?!... well, okay Zed. I mean - you have read other novels, right?... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
No. I haven't even read that one. What's a novel? is it something to do with computers? Seriously, though: if you're a dad, you "get" the book completely; if not, you miss out on so much of what its all about. No other book has made me bawl like a baby at the end. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Except that time when someone smacked you round the head with a hardback edition of Five go to kirrin island. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
Zed, I hear you, I get that. But... on the other hand, you are perhaps too subjective in this regard?... and the lasting weight of the novel, as it is carried through time, will have to be based on factors of response other than those merely of fatherhood.... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Seriously, I couldn't stop weeping. It lasted for about 10 minutes; afterwards, I felt utterly drained, both physically and emotionally. Then I went upstairs and hugged my son. IMHO, the book is a masterpiece. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
The last time I cried like a baby at the end of a book, was when I cut my finger on the last page of THONGOR OF LEMURIA.  | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
Except for Janet and John - you know, the first book you ever read in 1972. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
But... on the other hand, you are perhaps too subjective in this regard?... Probably. and the lasting weight of the novel, as it is carried through time, will have to be based on factors of response other than those merely of fatherhood.... Not for me it won't. For me, the book is the greatest I've read. I don't claim to speak for anyone else. Just me. All three of me.  | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
Oh, you garrulous bastards!!! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
If I can review a book objectively after reading it, that book hasn't worked as it should. IMHO. Which is why I'm a rubbish reviewer. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
I felt drained, physically and emotionally too. ... but ever so slightly manipulated.... Perhaps my subjectivity was "High-Expectations Syndrome"?... *sigh*, one never really knows.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
The timing's all wrong on this but a much better punchline than the one in my earlier post would have been "Except that time when someone smacked you round the head with a hardback edition of The Bumper book of Child Beating" | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
... but ever so slightly manipulated.... Wrong again, son. The word is: moved. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Boiled down to the basics, isn't the manipulation of a reader's emotions the sole purpose of a novel or short story? It is for me. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
The timing's all wrong on this but -- No no - stop right there, while you're still right. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
Yes, manipulation of a reader's emotions is, of course, the sole purpose of a work of fiction - but I said I felt manipulated... and that is not what's supposed to happen.... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Ah, well. Your loss. I certainly didn't.  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Maybe Craig just can't handle it when a piece of fiction has any real effect so he has to think there's something negative about it. If you read the readers revieews about the Road on Amazon some complete twonk sayss "and that ending, you can see it coming from the start of the book- it were rubbish" or words to that effect. Missing the point by a country mile springs to mind. I think there should be some kind of IQ test before you post on Amazon sometimes. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Don't you just envy my ability to commit?  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
It's why women love me.  | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
>>>I think there should be some kind of IQ test before you post on Amazon sometimes. No comment. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Now that was great comic timing. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
*Sigh*. No, Weber, I can - [makes quote symbols with fingers] - "handle" - [ceases making quote symbols] - it when fiction affects me... I was merely analyzing why this work didn't quite "do it" for me. I'm able to see its perfections... though its flaws stand out to me... but again, they are the flaws of a higher order: I aspire myself be able to make flaws like this novel does! | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
If i'd randomly clicked on 5 stars instead of 3 you wouldn't be complaining. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
By the way, Gary - "Janet and John"? Never heard of it. Is that some kind of transsexual hooker porn?... If so, how was it?... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
You know you don't need to make quote signs with your fingers when you're typing. we can see the real thing on the screen. Plus it makes it difficult to type if both hands are occupied elsewhere. I have that problem a lot. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
Yes, Web, but it's OH so much more sarcastic when I do it like that.... | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
Craig, I don't know... Do you?... Is your "." under strain?... Need new keyboard?... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Don't mess with him; he's a brown belt. (That means he has poo on it).  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
What are you typing with when you do it? Your toes? A tricky combination of nose and tongue? That's as many as I can list without being rude | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Not a brown belt yet. Still Purple. did you know Ju Jitsu is the first martial art Neo learns in the Matrix? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
Will a black belt go with your bobble hat? [runs away before he gets a good kicking] | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Just joshing with you. I'm actually quite impressed. I've done a bit of karate (wadaru) and kick-boxing in my time, but I was only really good at sparring (which I loved) and bagwork. Subsequently, my hands are f*cked; I can't even grab a sausage without dropping it.  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
lmao  | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
I'm a tenth Dan in Szechuan. I can dial the takeaway with ruthless aplomb. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.129.21.168 |
Ack! You folk - just agree on something, will yas? Or failing that, try not to give a damn about wht others think... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
If anyone uses the Origami joke we should all track them down and superglue their face to the floor | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.129.21.168 |
Craig - we like apocalypses because they represent a world as 'an empty space'. I've just read a bit of this book by Peter Brook who says we feel free when seeing a blank, empty space, that new ideas come from them. I think he inadvertently summed up with that idea the whole post-apocalyptic genre, or rather the fascination with it. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
Tony - read my original long post: I spoke of the wicked, disturbing, perverted, child-like demonic glee in imagining a world not just devoid of people, but decimated: all people dead, their deaths hideous; those few remaining in constant pain and torture, near-dying and cruelly inflicted upon. It's a Sadistic nightmare gone global. We all have this dark, demonic aspect to ourselves, even if it's a mere grain of sand... there is a rough beast in everyone that wishes it could blot out the sun and brain all the other apes... thank God it is deep down and only peers out occasionally, and sometimes novels and films tickle it pleasureably.... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.13.14 |
Craig... Is your "." under strain?... Need new keyboard?... I'm sorry, I'm just not getting your jokes today, Gary. Or, wait - is this another fumbling come-on?... *sigh*, just say what you want to say already, let's hear it.... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.129.21.168 |
Yeah, I'm happier with the apocalypse than I used to be. When I was a kid I used to think the world felt apocalyptic - no rules (I could see), stuff like that, no sense of geography in my mind (I used to think the world was eternally flat). It felt like a weird dream. In some ways apocalyptic movies feel like our weird and comfy childhoods. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.129.21.168 |
Say hi to your template thing for me, won't you. I quite like it. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.16.84.196 |
Say hi to your template thing for me, won't you. I quite like it. I'm almost too excited about actually having a fellow advocate to ask... are you just pulling my leg, Tony?... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.129.21.168 |
Not really, no. I mean I do seem more forgiving than you, but I do understand the concept. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.16.86.206 |
Thank God! A fellow traveler.... All I do is analyze my own reactions to works of fiction - mostly in film, but novels/short-stories/ plays too, often in the form of screenplays. I don't declare and then prove, I look curiously at my own reactions, and ask: "Why did I feel that way? Why do I react this way, or that way? Why did I love this, for this reason; but didn't in that work, that had the same reason? The same for that which I hate - why did I react this way here, that way there?" I'm actually quite forgiving of most films, btw - much more forgiving than in times past. I can watch piffle like HELLBOY 2 and just go with it, enjoy it, be dazzled by it from beginning to end... even if it is a turd-load of sugary piffle.... (I'm oh so grateful you Brits came up with that term) | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.242.126 |
I'd love to read one of your screenplays, Craig. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.17.12.71 |
Careful, Zed - because I'll give it to you - if you send me an email - freevolve@gmail.com - I'm warning you - email me at freevolve@gmail.com, and I will - I'm serious - don't ask, or the writer will send it to you, if you email me at freevolve@gmail.com - this is your last warning.... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
ha! Email incoming!!!! | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 204.104.55.244 |
I thought the Road was a wonderful novel. |