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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.25.141.120
Posted on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 06:52 pm:   

Hello Everyone:

This time, at Summer's end, some summary thoughts on a Summery novel, "Joyland" by Big Steve himself. I liked it very much for the most part; http://tbdeluxe.blogspot.com/2013/09/thoughts-on-joyland-by-stephen-king.html

Thanks for reading, as always.

Thomas
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.162.217.58
Posted on Monday, September 16, 2013 - 09:46 pm:   

Thomas - I pretty much agree with all you say on your blog. I had a problem with one character having an unusual skill and thought "I hope this skill doesn't become necessary later on in the story" but it did, which I found disappointing.
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.25.141.120
Posted on Tuesday, September 17, 2013 - 09:06 pm:   

Thanks, Mick. Yeah, it made the climax overly predictable and flat.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 04:21 pm:   

That's the problem with most of Stephen King's later fiction.

Instead of writing passionately and instinctively, as he did in the early days, he seems to have lost the knack of judging what he is capable of and what he seems to think we (his loyal readers) expect of him. Let's none of us mention his "loyal" publishers, shall we...

It's as if every book he turns out is overly calculated and, as a result, frequently misjudged - tending to fall between two stools.

Perhaps it's time for another Richard Bachman type escapade?
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.162.217.58
Posted on Wednesday, September 18, 2013 - 08:00 pm:   

Fair comment, Stevie, but personally I found 11.22.63 one of the best thing's he's ever written, and that's pretty recent.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.106.78
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 02:17 am:   

And Under the Dome is a fantastically good read as well. Most of his very recent stuff that I've read stands head and shoulders (IMHO) over Christine.
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.206
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 02:53 pm:   

I'm three-quarters of the way through "Hearts in Atlantis" and that is a wonderous read - so far. I loved "Under the Dome", although found the ending a bit of a cop-out.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 03:27 pm:   

It's about time I started that chrono read starting with 'Carrie' methinks.
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.206
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 05:34 pm:   

Stevie

I actualy (almost) read King in chronological order up to "Pet Semetary", apart from reading "The Stand" first. I only bought that book (when it was first published) because I liked the cover, I was not really aware of Stephen King at the time, but that novel absolutely blew me away.

Chers
Terry
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.162.218.78
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 07:02 pm:   

...I ought to apologise for typing "thing's" above, this being a board frequented by writers and all that...
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.25.141.120
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 07:33 pm:   

I couldn't stand "The Stand." Gave up on it after 150 pages, finding it lead-footed, overwritten, and badly pretentious. I stopped reading him for a long time after "Pet Semetary," because I didn't think he could ever top that one.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.55.31
Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2013 - 09:56 pm:   

Well, I have to admit I was totally absorbed by The Stand when I first read it back in 1980 or so. The early parts are terrific, I didn't care nearly as much for the second half of the book. I'm still fond of The Shining, The Dead Zone and Night Shift. The rest is eminently forgettable imho.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.23.74.112
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 10:43 am:   

Misery - forgettable? IT - forgettable? 11.22.63 - forgettable? Gerald's Game - forgettable? Apt Pupil - forgettable? Shawshank Redemption - forgettable? The Body - forgettable?

Catch my drift? ;)
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.55.31
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 01:39 pm:   

Ah, I forgot Different Seasons.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, September 20, 2013 - 03:52 pm:   

I too gave up on The Stand about so many pages in, after the plague hit—that sequence was superb, but I couldn't sustain interest in what followed upon it. I love almost all his early stuff, mostly pre-mid-1980's. The short-stories I've been revisiting lately stand up tall. I remember reading one from a bit later, "Rainy Season" (1989), and thinking at the time it was SO poor... it actually enraged me, it was that bad. I remember reading "The Breathing Method" from Different Seasons (1982), and thinking at the time it was SO good... it floored me completely, it was that good.

I just don't have the patience to wade through these massive tones anymore, hunting for what I'd value; I wish I did. I'm sorely tempted, this coming Tuesday (September 24), to go out and purchase Dr. Sleep, I must admit... but I'll probably wait for the reviews here first.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 02:55 pm:   

I still consider 'The Stand' to be Stephen King's masterpiece. It sucked me in like few other books from my youth and was a masterclass in character and world creation. I would compare the effect it had on me to that of 'The Lord Of The Rings' or 'Dune' but made even more potent because of the contemporary setting - that he transformed, with terrifying conviction, into a dark fantasyland of Good versus Evil. It was the unpredictability of the action and the love and fear he generated in the mind of the reader for his myriad fascinating characters that blew me away. Of his infamous "hefty tomes" it's the only one I've read that really delivers the whole way through.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2013 - 04:39 pm:   

I think it might be a personal taste thing, Stevie. I'm not a big fan of this kind of thing I've detected in some King, like Stand and It; which rubbed me the wrong way in another author's work, Bradbury's Death is a Lonely Business, and which was almost too much for me in Ellison's short story "Jefty is Five." For lack of a better term, I'll call it "nostalgia porn": this over-valued wallowing in the author's memories of a rose-colored past, with that sore-sucking sentimentality proving a knee-deep slosh (forgive the mixed metaphors) impeding all regular story aspects of the given work (character development, plot, etc.). It's just a thing I detest; and no, I didn't get far enough in Stand or It to fairly judge them as containing such (perhaps they don't at all!); but then, the moment my spidey-senses flared, I baled.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.106.78
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 04:57 am:   

It can safely be said that neither of those two books could be described in the terms you use above Craig. IT in particular paints a portrait of the most insidous and evil town to live in that King has ever written.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 08:08 am:   

Fairly taken. In fact, I retract all comments concerning It and such others: I have no business making comments on works I've not read—that's just ignorant and a waste of time. Let's just say, I began, long ago, to read It and The Stand, and for whatever reason, they didn't capture me, and so I didn't stick with them. Maybe I'd feel much differently now. It's not them, it's me.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 10:46 am:   

I thoroughly enjoyed 'It' but thought it was flawed by self indulgence and an overly sentimental ending. The set pieces are what make the book such a fun read but looked at as a whole I think it's where King started to lose the plot and believe in his own hype.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 10:48 am:   

I had exactly the same reaction to 'The Tommyknockers' and it was about then that I started to drift away from him as a reader.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 10:54 am:   

I think his early classic period probably ended with 'Pet Sematary' - one of the finest things he ever wrote. After that he just became too big and his books started to lose their edge. He was and still is a very fine writer of high quality entertainments but those early works had real bite and passion, imho.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.118.76.204
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 04:54 pm:   

I only recently found a second-hand copy of The Tommyknockers and decided to try and read it (after a very long Kingless period). I got through the first 35 pages or so and then boredom set in. It's me, I presume. I guess King cares more about his characters than the supernatural phenomena they encounter. Fair enough, but this kind of thing reads like a Peyton Place sequel with some supernatural stuff thrown in for good measure.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2013 - 05:09 pm:   

It had good set pieces but was ultimately too self indulgent and I thought the ending was way overblown.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.106.78
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:28 am:   

Surely good characters are central to any story you want to tell. If you don't cae for/believe in the characters, it does't matter how well described your supernatural stuff is, it just won't work.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.118.72.12
Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 01:20 pm:   

To an extent, yes. But King offers the reader dozens of pages of character background and analysis which don't carry the story noticeably forward. At one point in The Stand one of his characters is stranded in a cabin in the snow and proceeds to glue together a model airplane or car (I forget which). I swear I half expected a lengthy disquiqition on the correct usage of different enamels, cement, putties and so forth.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:59 am:   

I agree that Stephen King does tend to waffle on a bit at times but the depth of characterisation he excels at is what primarily made those early masterpieces stand out from the pulp horror throng. They were plot and character based and filled with a raw passion and creative energy that got rather watered down over the years as his popularity soared to ridiculous levels. There was a time around the mid to late 80s that King turned into an all-round entertainer determined to please everyone - but himself most of all. That's my theory anyway...
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.57.37
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 01:58 pm:   

Well, who are we to judge . . . Apparently it brings in the bread and butter (mostly the bread) and any writer who hits a motherlode would be tempted to exploit it. He'd be foolish not to, especially with children to feed.
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.206
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 02:15 pm:   

I've just finished reading "Hearts in Atlantis", which is flawed, self-indulgent in places, but which I loved to death. Not least because the final scene, sentimental it might be, settled a personal matter in my own mind.

Cheers
Terry
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.57.37
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 05:30 pm:   

Not least because the final scene, sentimental it might be, settled a personal matter in my own mind.

A rare occurence indeed! I had a similar experience twenty-odd years ago, reading Alan Hollinghurst's The Folding Star. Must have touched a nerve. Isn't that one of the halmarks of good literature?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 05:37 pm:   

I'm not judging the great man. Merely stating the truth as I see it. In the same circumstances I am sure I would have reacted exactly the same way Stephen did and, were he in my shoes, I am sure Stephen would have reacted exactly as did I. It's the writer-reader dymanic.

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