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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.74
Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 07:26 am:   

If anyone missed Susan Hill talking about her new short ghost story novel The Small Hand on Open Book this weekend, you may be interested in catching the repeat of the show this afternoon on Radio 4, about four o'clock, I believe. (It's probably available to listen to online too.)

I had to grit my teeth and not chew my tongue when she happilly opined that no one wrote ghost stories set in modern times so she thought she would do so. To me, this seemed as true a statement as 'Nobody writes vampire romance stories these days, so I think I'd better do so.'

Anyway. Be mildy irked and have a listen, if you fancy.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 09:51 am:   

Er, everybody writes ghost stories set in modern times. Does she not read? Do your research.
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Ian Alexander Martin (Iam)
Username: Iam

Registered: 10-2009
Posted From: 207.6.255.47
Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 07:36 pm:   

No one writes ghost stories set in modern times; they all write about ghosts in ancient times… becuase that's when the author was alive. You know, like Dickens and Poe.

Oh sure there's a few exceptions, like... say... 80% of the horror section, 45% of the Fantasy section, and 15% of the "Fiction" section, but other than those, nobody does it… that she's bothered to read.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.72
Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 07:58 pm:   

She's 'literary', though, innit.

Also, she seemed to dismiss any horror stories with ghosts in them as frighteners and little else, somehow not real ghost stories.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.78
Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 10:13 pm:   

I've just read The Small Hand. The best I can say of it is that it's beautifully bound and presented. The tale itself is slight, and yes, as Gary says, compare it to what Ramsey does and it's hopelessly naive and staid. Then again, compared to Ramsey's stuff, so is most stuff. Still, this is the second of Hill's ghost tales I've read and both feel like the results of condescending dalliances with those below stairs. Bastard offspring that can be dismissed in polite society.

What I found as annoying was Mariella Frostrup's acceptance of Hill's viewpoint, that she seemed happy to reinforce the viewpoint (not directly stated but implied on the show) that the modern ghost story isn't being written and that when it is written - both Kate Mosse and Sarah Waters had goes recently - it's only worth commenting on when the writer's of good stock.

Snobbery?
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 10:27 pm:   

Simplest solution is to pretend you're a literary tart, wait till you've won a great big literary prize, then confound all the prigs with a statement declaring they know fuck all, that it was a 'wind-up', and that you are in love with a genre, especially the horror genre.

Michael Chabon did it. Upset a few of the little pugs when he declared King (among others) a major influence. Right after he won the Pulitzer. Ha. Anyway, it made me laugh.

Good ole Chabon. He doesn't give two flying fucks. He's well and truly immersed himself in the genre, and irked 'them' to high heaven and back, because if you think the above was treason in the 'literary' hierarchy, it 'ain't nuthin' compared to his next publicly professed love of comics.

What a guy!
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 12:03 am:   

I keep wanting to read Chabon - Frank, where's a good place to start?
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.70
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 06:57 am:   

The library, Waterstones, or Amazon, Zed.
;-)
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 08:35 am:   

Page 1.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:23 am:   

Such wit. I can barely cope.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 09:42 am:   

Perhaps miss Hill meant that there are not many popular mainstream authors writing ghost stories, which would be quite correct.
Small press ghostly books are not that easy to find in general brick and mortar stores.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 10:07 am:   

Almost every ghost story published by a mainstream imprtint is set in modern times - two recent examples: that Birthing House thing, Adam nevill's Apartment 16. The shelves are heavy with modern ghost stories. Stephen King, anyone? he's written a handful of them.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 10:07 am:   

It's just that, if you're not a genre hound like us, trailing the internet for interesting supernatural literature, you'll rarely come across it in general bookstores.
At least with SH being a popular mainstream author (even if I never cared that much for The Woman in Black), it can only help to re-awaken wider interest in this kind of books.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 10:11 am:   

Thing is, Stephen King is seen as a (very popular) genre writer, while Susan Hill is considered as a mainstream writer, not listed in the horror ghetto, and whose work may be picked up by many people who wouldn't want to touch a SK novel (their loss, but reality).
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:13 am:   

It's just that, if you're not a genre hound like us, trailing the internet for interesting supernatural literature, you'll rarely come across it in general bookstores.

I disagree. The market is flooded with ghost stories. Most of them bad, and a lot of them written by mainstream authors who think they're "slumming it" in genre.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:14 am:   

As Gary says, it's the sheer arrogance of her comments that gall. One would assume that if she's writing ghost stories she's at least slightly familiar with the sub-genre. Clearly she isn't, which means her story is probably cliched twaddle.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:16 am:   

"The Small hand" is a great title, though.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:22 am:   

I thought it was Jeremy Beadles biography...
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:41 am:   

Zed - try these in this order: The Mysteries of Pittsburg, Wonder Boys, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay,The Yiddish Policemen's Union.

F**king outstanding. He's one of those writer's writers. When you read his prose it's like eating one of the most sumptuous, and delicious gastronomic marvels ever.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 11:59 am:   

What, so you feel stuffed and slightly guilty afterwards?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 12:09 pm:   

And King is the literary equivalent of Big Mac and chips.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 12:24 pm:   

I'm sorry, I must have walked into the wrong room...the sign above the door says C-O-M-E-D-I-A-N-S...my mistake.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 12:42 pm:   

Are you sure it doesn't say T-O-S-S-E-R-S? We've been here a lot while.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 01:18 pm:   



'a lot while' eh?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 02:04 pm:   

See? Utter cretin.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 02:16 pm:   

Yes, but self-deprecation wins me over every time.
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Ian Alexander Martin (Iam)
Username: Iam

Registered: 10-2009
Posted From: 207.6.255.47
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 05:09 pm:   

Whenever Fry uses phrases like "a lot while' I put it down to him being from Whitby, what with its ancient ship-faring culture isolating it from the modern world of motorized transport.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 06:05 pm:   

My sister looks nervous every time I enter the room.
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Steve Bacon (Stevebacon)
Username: Stevebacon

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 93.186.20.135
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 07:11 pm:   

Sarah Waters made a decent attempt with the ghost story in The Little Stranger, albeit not a contemporary piece.
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Ian Alexander Martin (Iam)
Username: Iam

Registered: 10-2009
Posted From: 207.6.255.47
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 06:38 am:   


quote:

My sister looks nervous every time I enter the room.


Why...? Is she worried you'll either start swearing again and offend her husband, or that you'll start flirting and steal her husband? Or both?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 08:31 am:   

All three.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 09:01 am:   

A public apology: I have just received an email from Susan Hill complaining about comments I've made above. Apparently, someone emailed her about them . . . Anyway, I have apologised to her and have now deleted all my comments here.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 09:20 am:   

On a more positive note, this has given me an opportunity to draw Susan Hill's attention to the contemporary masters of the ghost story - Ramsey Campbell, Robert Aickman, et al - so I'd just like to thank the person who emailed her for allowing this to happen.
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Skunsworth (Skunsworth)
Username: Skunsworth

Registered: 05-2009
Posted From: 92.16.38.116
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 09:44 am:   

Oops, Gary - you're in the 'public apology after pissing off famous authors' club. Like me!

Thing is about Hill, she says crap like that all the time - she did it a couple of years ago in a newspaper article, didn't she? At best, she reveals herself to be uninformed, relying on unresearched opinion and basically full of shit. A swift look around, easy to do using the internet, reveals a wealth of contemporary genre/ghost stories, some good,some bad, some merely indifferent. What Hill means, I suspect, is that she can't be bothered reading any of them because she's essentially happy in her cosy world, where Susan Hill is the only person writing supernatural tales of note.

Oh well. At least we know better.

S
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 11:00 am:   

Oh, I wonder who emailed her? I'm sure I can't possibly think of a trouble-maker or two who might have done.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 11:11 am:   

Susan Hill has just replied very graciously to my gracious email to her. It's cool.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 11:11 am:   

Btw, she "doesn't know Ramsey Campbell but will look out for him."
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.72
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 11:24 am:   

Okay... All the same, maybe this thread should be deleted.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 220.138.161.249
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 11:33 am:   

Btw, she "doesn't know Ramsey Campbell but will look out for him."

That says it all, really.
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 12:13 pm:   

Why delete the thread, Mark? I don't think anyone's said anything especially untoward. Hill has made her comments and others here have pointed out that they are wrong and that they reveal an ignorance and, possibly, a disrespect for the genre she's chosen to bastardize for her own work. Let it stand, I say.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.68
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 12:51 pm:   

I certainly do not think the thread should be deleted.

To be fair, Huw, none of us can know the work of every worthwhile writer, and sometimes it takes someone else to bring one to our attention. Anyway, both Susan Hill and I are on at the Cheltenham Festival.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 61.216.50.36
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 03:15 pm:   

I know, Ramsey, and maybe I am overreacting a little. I just find it surprising that anyone with any knowledge of the genre would say that nobody is writing supernatural fiction with a modern setting, or be unaware of one of its finest practitioners.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.71
Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 04:08 pm:   

If Ramsey says the thread stays, it stays.

I was just suggesting it could go if Susan Hill felt upset by it. It certainly wasn't my intention to cause injury to her. Anything I've said on this thread I would've said to her face, though perhaps a touch more politely.

My girlfriend's reading The Small Hand right now and is experiencing the same reaction I had to it. Disappointment mostly, and the feeling that while it purports to be a modern ghost story, at least in terms of setting, it's actually a piece that feels bound in tradition without taking the tradition forward. It's a nicely produced book, though.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:31 am:   

Surely, even if she doesn't know Ramsey's work, she should know Hilary Mantel, a fellow "literary writer" who also writes contemporary ghost stories - check out Beyond Black as an excellent example.

And if she doesn't know Ramsey, surely she knows the name Stephen King... last I checked he's still the world's bestselling author when you take his entire catalogue into account.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 11:06 am:   

Weber - I wouldn't be too sure. I mean not only have writers from the horror genre touted Hilary Mantel's Beyond Black, but also those outside of the genre. I'm sure this will disqualify Susan Hill having to acknowledge her or the its presence.

BTW: Beyond Black is one of the finest, most terrifying ghost stories ever written. It's dark humour turns so dark it stops being black comedy. I'm sure I remember Ramsey saying how much he admired the book.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 11:13 am:   

Personally, I think there's something terribly wrong here. Why has Gary had to remove his comments? Why not the rest of us? I'm not trying to stir up trouble, but with all respect to Susan Hill, as a professional writer of many years surely some comments from a bunch of writers/horror fans she's NEVER heard of, would be hardly consequential at all.

In her line of work she must have had to deal with much much worse when she started out. I think the details of the criticisms posted here are not abusive, but in fact quite fairly on what she has said, or hasn't said.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 11:21 am:   

I also agree this thread should stay, and in fact Gary's didn't need to delete his comments, in my opinion.

It comes with the territory if you are well known person speaking out, you can expect criticism if it turns out you are less than well informed.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 11:47 am:   

Excuse the grammatical mistakes with possessives and their like in my previous message, and my inability to discern between adjective and adverb.

Tom - exactly, mate.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.230
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 12:06 pm:   

In fairness to Susan Hill, I did use the rather coarse and casual phrase "she's an arrogant cow". Didn't mean anything by it. In fact, it's quite common speech up north. But I did think it needed deleting, because it probably doesn't travel well.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.230
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 12:10 pm:   

For info: I had a decent chat via email with her, and she's very nice.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 220.138.167.135
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 12:12 pm:   

He's a stubborn ox, that Gary Fry.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.230
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 12:17 pm:   

Hahaha.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 12:38 pm:   

Gary - fair enough, mate. I can understand that, and I CAN understand somebody taking offense, but I hope the rest of the messages stay. Susan Hill is a writer and she especially must appreciate it's tantamount to censoring people - a touch dramatic, perhaps, but I personally don't think so.

I honestly didn't remember you writing that, so I have to repeat that I DO understand why she will have wanted it removed. It makes me wonder, though, that with the internet we are now charged with policing these forums in case we offend somebody.

I'm all for fair play and constructive criticism, but I've sure as hell heard various established authors use their expertise with words to camouflage their vitriolic attacks, and not have them removed or censored.

Okay, I promise not use cap locks anyMORE.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.230
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:08 pm:   

It's all much ado about nothing, really. But I deleted my comments because I just wanted to be reasonable.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:11 pm:   

Maybe you can publish a novella by her :-)
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:27 pm:   

She can be a very talented wrter. I especially liked 'I'm the king of the castle' which was an excellent little psychological wotsit. Well worth reading. I also quite like the simon serrailler books.

But she really does need to check her facts before making some statements.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 02:30 pm:   

Yes, exactly. Being a great writer, good writer, even a crap writer, people should check their facts regardless.

Anyway, that's enough from me.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.68
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 05:22 pm:   

I'm afraid comments like Susan Hill's about the field are frequent and recurrent - see my essay "Dig Us No Grave" from 1986.
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Steve Bacon (Stevebacon)
Username: Stevebacon

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 90.209.220.4
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 08:59 pm:   

Isn't she originally from Scarborough, Gary? She might know where you live. :-)
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.210.199
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 09:30 pm:   

Yes is, yeah. She still has family hereabouts.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 09:30 pm:   

Steve - SHE IS GARY. (BUT, don't tell Gary, he doesn't know - see Identity for further explanations).
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.210.199
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 09:33 pm:   

Does that mean you're me, too, Frank?

Christ.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   

It does, indeed, Gary/Prof. I take it you do know something about films, as opposed to days of yore when you knew nowt.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.210.199
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:47 pm:   

Haha. I have seen that, yes. Fun.
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 79.79.216.123
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:50 pm:   

Ramsey (or anyone else): Where can I find the aforementioned essay, Dig Us No Grave? It may be that I actually have it in some volume somewhere but as far as I know I don't.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 220.138.160.85
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 11:53 pm:   

It's in Ramsey Campbell, Probably, or you might find it in an old issue of Necrofile.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.210.199
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 09:07 am:   

Ruth Rendell makes similar points. Their loss, I guess.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 10:21 am:   

I'm not that enamoured of RR either. She turns out standard police procedural thrillers with a standard leading protagonist. Oh, she's a good writer, technically speaking, but so what. But I feel that about a lot of writers who use a central character time and time again, from the Inspector Morse series up to Ian Rankin's fella, whose name I can't remember...oh yes, Rebus.

But be jealousy or boredom, I can't decide.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 10:25 am:   

Dunno about Wexford (never read em), but Rendell's crime and psychological stuff is every bit the equal of Ramsey.
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.109.165.248
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 11:21 am:   

Hi folk. Yes, I heard Hill talking about supernatural literature and felt that she hadn't cast her net out as far as she could. However, I have enjoyed her ghost stories on the whole, particularly The Woman in Black and The Face in The Mirror. They're 'traditional' but effective. Also here novel I'm The King of The Castle is terrifying.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.74
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 05:50 pm:   

Ramsey's prose is more rewarding than Ruth Rendell's, to my mind. Rendell's irks me, feels schoolmarmish and too buttoned up to me. I read a Wexford without Wexford in it (for the most part);tried another and couldn't get on with it. Oh hum.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 05:52 pm:   

Her Barbara Vine books can be excellent. King Solomon's Carpets in particular was a brilliant book.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 08:09 pm:   

Yes, Mark, no comparison prose-wise, but even so, Rendell's chilly approach lends itself well to some killer narratives. I defy anyone to read SIGHT FOR SORE EYES and not consider it a masterly horror novel.

If we resent non-horror bods not considering good horror as worthy as mainstream stuff, surely we shouldn't rule out some mainstream stuff as being good horror.
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Matthew_fell (Matthew_fell)
Username: Matthew_fell

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 142.179.13.54
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 09:00 pm:   

I think that Susan Hill should stick to writing the Simon Serailler detective novels . . . which she does well. THE WOMAN IN BLACK was good, and I liked it a lot. Since then, where the ghost story is concerned, Ms Hill is a non-event, in my book.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.73
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 10:51 pm:   

Certainly don't rule out mainstream stuff being good horror, though I suspect that authors of it would prefer it if we did!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 08:32 am:   

So do I.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 09:55 am:   

Some of the best horror material read over the last 10 or 15 years has been so-called "mainstream" literary fiction.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 10:15 am:   

Some of the best horror material read over the last 10 or 15 years has been so-called "mainstream" literary fiction.

Yes indeed. I now think about The Road, which even "out-bleaks" Ligotti.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 11:31 am:   

Interesting discussion about some of the best horror being in the "mainstream", but it kind of annoys me a bit that these "mainstream" authors won't acknowledge the fact that their work (or those particular works) ARE actually horror. It reinforces the misconception than horror is a "poor" genre to be in IMO.

But then I guess it's just a marketing thing. They have to stick to the mainstream to keep in with mainstream publishers - otherwise they'd all end up in the small presses!
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 11:32 am:   

"than" should read "that"
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.68
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 08:01 pm:   

Jeanette Winterson's to write a horror novella for Arrow books, tied in somehow with Hammer Horror. Due out in the summer. I'm not going to say anything about the Wintersons I've read cos it'll only end up with Gary having to apologise to another bestselling writer!
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.109.171.65
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 10:27 am:   

I think Winterson is a superb writer, for what it's worth. Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit is a brilliant book on faith.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.75
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 11:07 am:   

That wasn't one of the books I read, J. The ones I read were not like that. I think it was just something in her mannerisms and suppositions I disagreed with. I find her fine in interviews and so on... Be interesting to see what she produces on the horror front.
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.109.171.65
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 11:20 am:   

Oh I certainly disagree with her on some things. For example, she wrote a SF novel and then was very dismissive of the genre saying that her novel couldn't be SF, because, you know, that kind of thing is silly.
But I loved Oranges and also The Passion was very very good.
It's interesting how instantly dismissive some people have been about this publishing move. I think that it can only be a good thing if Hammer/Arrow are using good writers to help launch a horror line rather than someone like, say, Hutson or Guy N. Smith. I think that it will open the door more for this genre and hopefully encourage new writers and new talents to get published.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 12:08 pm:   

God yeah, remember when the BBC ran that short story compo - and chose Hutson to begin it?
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.69
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 06:52 pm:   

I remember that competition! I was gonna have a go, do the Ed McBain one, but never got round to it. Might've been funnier to have had a go at the Shaun Hutson one. At least he was game enough to do it. My suspicion is he wouldn't have been the first they asked.

And yes, I agree with Jonathan. Surely the Winterson horror situation is to be welcomed. I do hope she reads horror and isn't having a go blind to writers like Ramsey, or think she can slum it as Sebastian Faulks seemed to when he did his Bond novel, or else it could be a bit silly. Fingers crossed for good things.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.170.240
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 06:58 pm:   

Oh, none of em know Ramsey and he can outwrite em all. :-(

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