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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 11:10 am:   

This analysis is superb, and I agree wholeheartedly with it; http://metaphilm.com/index.php/detail/knight-and-day-vs-inception/
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.17.2
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 11:45 am:   

I'll take your word for it, Tony. The prose style puts my teeth so much on edge I can't read it.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.239.243.202
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 11:46 am:   

The guy's a Nolan hater. I got about 3 paragraphs in and gave up on it. He's never going to say anything insightful about Nolan films because he automatically rubbishes them.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.17.2
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:00 pm:   

No, still can't do it. I'll take Robin Wood and Movie generally, both of which examine films very closely.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:06 pm:   

I find Christopher Nolan a bit hit-and-miss, as well as somewhat self-indulgent. In that respect he can be as frustrating as David Fincher or Darren Aronofsky... but he did direct three undoubted modern masterpieces, imo; 'Memento', 'Insomnia' & 'Inception'. Maybe he should stick to single word titles.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 05:26 pm:   

You're forgetting the Prestige and the first 2 Batmans as well Stevie.

I wouldn't say I always love his films unreservedly but he's always an interesting filmmaker to watch.

The tone of that article is too snarky even by my standards to be taken as any kind of valid criticism. It just reads like he has a personal grudge against Nolan.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 05:29 pm:   

They are merely superior entertainments while the three films mentioned go one step further into the realm of what cinema should be about, imho.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 10:57 am:   

Yes, it's awkwardly written, but the points I do agree with.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 111.251.229.173
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:02 am:   

I can't read that, either - it's just cringe-inducing. If he's seriously comparing Inception to a piece of rubbish like Knight and Day it's probably not worth reading anyway.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:05 am:   

Knight and Day isn't rubbish. It's just subtle - and, heaven forfend, fun. I got a lot more out of it than I did Inception, which left me feeling bored and empty.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:07 am:   

People ignore *real* craft. They mistake serious for intelligent.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:09 am:   

But I'm happy - albeit frustrated - to be in a minority.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:30 am:   

I've never even heard of 'Knight And Day', so can't comment, but 'Inception' is, for me, what intelligent, adult science fiction cinema should be about. It forces viewers to concentrate and think it out for themselves without providing any easy answers and, as such, is the best film of its kind since 'Blade Runner' and is even comparable to Tarkovsky's 'Solaris' or, dare I say it, '2001 : A Space Odyssey' - all movies that I've heard being criticised for being "slow" and "impenetrable". I disagree. They are stunningly well made and visually spectacular intellectual puzzles that continue to reward viewing after viewing. If only Nolan would continue in that vein rather than playing down his talent by faffing about with super-heroes. That's my opinion, for what it's worth.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:34 am:   

And no one loves a good fun super-hero movie more than me... but they are what they are.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:34 am:   

I actually find his Batman films more rewarding and affecting.
Knight and Day played with film, made you think about how it's put together. And it's also a fantasy, a dream, and one with dark undertones no-one else seems to have noticed. People can be so easily fooled by 'entertainment'. It's just a shame people look for depth in serious films all the time, overlook 'fun' in such a snooty way. But it's their loss.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 11:47 am:   

Cinema should be fun and entertaining, who wants to watch paint dry, but the best cinema also takes risks and does not pander to the audience. I like to be confounded in my expectations and made to think. Cinema should revel in making the viewer uncomfortable, imho. The one positive influence Tarantino has had on modern cinema is to make formula entertainment unpredictable again. 'Seven Psychopaths' was a great recent example of following his lead. But popular entertainment done with artistry and a wicked sense of humour all goes back to Hitchcock... no one got the balance more right.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 31.112.209.147
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 12:57 pm:   

Knight and Day did those things, under the popcorn.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 06:51 pm:   

Knight and Day is a Tom Cruise/Cameron Diaz vehicle. I'll admit to having never seen it. It's one of those that I've been waiting till it comes on the telly because the trailer just made it look like every other no-brainer action movie. Lots of guns and motorbike chases and big explosions.

The article Tony linked to makes the mistake in the early part of it of pretty much insulting people who like Nolan's films in the third paragraph.

I can understand people not liking Nolan's films. They do tend to be slow paced, they do tend to take themselves seriously, some people don't like that in films. However, just because a person doesn't like something, doesn't mean that that something is shit. This blogger seems to believe that he is the be-all and end-all of cinematic quality. Good, well made films are clearly defined solely on his likes and dislikes. All the good direction, framing, acting, lighting etc in the world counts for nothing if it's not to his taste.

There are plenty of films I can appreciate for their artistry but would never watch again because they bore me silly. i wouldn't ever call them bad films though just beause of my personal dislike. If i think a film is badly made shite, I'll say that. If it's well made shite, I at least have the good grace to praise where praise is due.

The guy who wrote this article doesn't have that much of a cognitive ability about himself.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 07:39 pm:   

I've not read the article, but I did a while back see Knight and Day... frankly, Tony, I didn't find it exceptionally memorable or special. However, perhaps I didn't quite grok it—it's happened before.

I remember thinking at the time, that it felt incredibly strained. It was trying so hard... because it was trying to revive a dying genre (though all things come back to life, in Hollywood, eventually)—that sort of big action epic. From my armchair position of potentially complete ignorance, I can venture this: we're headed for an onslaught of scifi in film and TV. Those specs are hot now; so many TV shows are selling or being developed in that genre; so many films on the horizon coming, especially of the "tent pole" variety (big-budget films unveiled on prime release dates [holidays, May, etc.]). Other times/worlds of fantasy (despite Hansel & Gretel's recent so-so reception) and scifi, these are all the rage; actioners and action-epics, not so much... imho, of course.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 1.169.131.90
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 12:56 am:   

'Bored and empty' is how I felt after watching Knight and Day, Tony. It was a really horrible film, in my opinion - merely a vehicle for two waning stars. The humour in it is strained and awkward and completely misses the mark, while the action scenes are just silly, like something from a 2nd rate Michael Bay movie.

Pointing this out does not make me a 'snob' or mean that I'm 'snooty' or in any way less inclined to enjoy a purely 'fun' film than anyone else. It simply means I thought the film was rubbish. I liked Inception a great deal, and can go about saying so without making digs at those who don't share my enthusiasm for the film.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 03:31 am:   

Tony meant no offence, Huw.

He just has a different way of looking at things. Personally, I find his world view equally baffling - but, to me, that is a good thing. That's what makes him the person he is. And, as a writer, he is one of the best I have read. And, as a person, he just needs to believe in himself.

We need more Tonys in this world and by trying to understand his world view maybe that will happen. End of lecture.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.26.39
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 11:59 am:   

I did like Mangold's Identity but haven't seen Knight and Day - the Sight and Sound review (which found only "feeble banter" against "background visual noise" and compared the film to "a mindless sitcom") put me off. But I'll give it a shot when I can.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 12:19 pm:   

'Identity' was a great wee film. Like a superior extended episode of 'The Twilight Zone' with gore. I really enjoyed it.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 02:23 pm:   

We have a projector with a very cheap surround sound, and I was expecting Knight and Day to be very bad, but was as immersed in it as I was Company of Wolves. I read it as the dreams of a dead or dying person, touching on similiar themes to Mullholland Drive, only more - on the surface - upbeat. I'm sorry if I did 'dig' at people in my anger.
And for the record, I was largely ignoring the Nolan-bashing (which was not why I liked the article) in the article and focusing on the interesting things about K&D, which I did agree with.

Maybe I read films in a different way to some people. I watch my films with childhood 'naivette' activated, try and evoke the kind of mind I had before having seen too many films. Part of the charm of the film for me was the 'waning' of Tom and Cameron's careers. It felt like the film was perhaps the dream of such 'waning' actors. Maybe I was not responding to the film as it was intended, but as it was for me.
Thanks for the kind words, Stevie.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 1.169.131.90
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 02:45 pm:   

Tony, sorry for my grouchy reply earlier. I'm not too well at the moment. My TS has been flaring up and making my chronic pain even worse than usual. I really shouldn't post when I'm having a bad day, as it makes me more likely to be unintentionally snarky. Sorry.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 02:56 pm:   

It's ok Huw. I never think about these things when I post.
:-(
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 1.169.131.90
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 03:04 pm:   

Tony, you weren't to know! There's no way of knowing what might be affecting another person's responses, and you shouldn't have to worry about those things when you post. It's my fault for replying when I know I shouldn't have.

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