| Author | Message | ||
     Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Discuss. Personally I think that Haneke is the natural successor to Hitch. Like Hitch he uses camera angles to create tension and tells huge sections of his movies without dialogue. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.20.22 |
Interesting... apart from one glaring difference. Hitchcock was always an unashamedly populist director who set out to entertain his audiences first and foremost. The fact he combined this with creating great art, and did so consistently and prolifically, over 50 odd years is why no other director even comes close imho.  Haneke is great though! Apart from his redundant, though still effective, remake of 'Funny Games'. The original version, 'The Piano Teacher' & 'Hidden' are masterpieces! Any idea what 'The White Ribbon' is about? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Yes Hitchcock was populist but Haneke has definitely picked up his mantle as far certain techniques, especially choice of camera angles, are concerned. Check the moments in funny games where events are happening in the next room and barely glimpsed as characters wander through shot. That's a definite Hitchcock touch (see Rope for the Hitch's best use of this) I watched Piano Teacher and Time of the Wolf yesterday. there were moments when I was gobsmacked at the way it was filmed. The moment where they saw the train and they chase it down the tracks. We're then left with a shot of the boy in close up on screen left and fading into the distance behind him we can see his family and the train moving away. It's a fabulous shot and should be used in film schools as a perfect example of composition. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
But you know what? I switch off Haneke films feeling ill, but go back to Hitch again and again. You get similiar points raised but love only one of them. Er, I've only seen a quarter of one of Haneke's, Funny Games (don't nag - I know, I know  ). It put me off because the feelings such things create I just don't want in my life. | ||
| Chris_morris (Chris_morris) Username: Chris_morris Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 12.165.240.116 |
I don't think Haneke is the natural successor to Hitch (although I admire both directors). The biggest reason is that Hitch's stories are usually straightforward -- they don't rely on subtext -- and he used his camera angles to achieve a kind of clarity of meaning. (I'm not saying Hitchcock's films don't have subtext, only that they don't rely on it.) When Hitch went without dialogue it was only because dialogue wasn't necessary. Haneke's stories rely heavily on interpretation and subtext. In this he is really more a successor to Antonioni than Hitchcock. When Haneke goes without dialogue it's because he wants you to decipher what's going on. He's interested in clarity only up to a point, and beyond that point he wants the audience to fill in the blanks. I mentioned Weber's assertion to my friend Travis just now, who told me, "The difference is obvious. Hitchcock wanted to scare you. Haneke wants to hurt you." I'm not sure I agree with that statement, but I sort of like it anyway. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
You see? Who wants to be 'hurt'? To feel, yes, but hurt? I question that. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
That kind of hurt is almost deeper than physical, and I resent it. There is nothing that can be taken away from it, or is in any way enriching. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.20.22 |
That's what I meant by the glaring difference between the two directors. Hitchcock wanted to scare his audience with a sly twinkle in his eye and then send them home happy and entertained. Haneke seriously wants to disturb and, yes, even repulse his audience - but he also wants them to think and question which, along with his directorial talent and technical skill, is what makes him such an interesting director. He's still got nothing on David Lynch or Jan Svankmajer though! | ||
| Chris_morris (Chris_morris) Username: Chris_morris Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 98.220.186.44 |
That kind of hurt is almost deeper than physical, and I resent it. There is nothing that can be taken away from it, or is in any way enriching. Well, he's not for everyone. I personally find his films very enriching, and I "take away" a lot, imho. However, you're free, Tony, to disregard the films if you like. Lots of others out there. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.19.83.234 |
I agree with you, Tony. THE PIANO TEACHER was when my patience for that foreign muck ran out. Or rather, I began to see how much slack we allow something because it has subtitles. Dreary and heavy with a sense of its own importance, it offered misery without epiphany, blackness without stars. Haneke has yet to evolve out of adolescent weltschmerz. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
With Hitch you felt entertained, but something got inside you when you came away, like a trojan horse. He didn't have to bludgeon, at least not so brutally. You don't have to hurt to be deep, and to do so feels like a kind of disdain for an audience, which always feels to me judgemental and harsh. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.19.83.234 |
Yeah, it's sadism. We're paying him to stab us with a pointy bit of Art. There's a great line in a Christopher Guest film: "There was abuse in my family. It was mostly musical in nature." | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.241.143 |
I think Haneke is one of the most important filmmakers we have. He isn't trying to entertain; he wants to emotionally scar us. Just as life does. In that way, his work is very honest indeed. If I want entertainment I'll watch Spongebob with my son. For the other stuff I need from cinema, I'll turn to the likes of Haneke. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
I suppose wanting to be upset is understandable, really. I don't know why I hadn't realised it before. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.19.83.234 |
Eh? I'm very confused. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
I'm joking. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.19.83.234 |
Oh good. I'm going to rub razor wire into my face instead of watching CACHE. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
In short; Haneke sucks. As much use as one of those old springy toys in a bungalow. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
And I'm going to buy some sweets that taste of shit because hey, you know, they might be kinda challenging. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.241.143 |
I'm sorry you think Haneke sucks, Tony. Maybe if there were a couple of fairies and a unicorn in one of his films, you'd like it more. A little butterfly, maybe? Some flowers in a pot?  | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
And I never realised that the whole spectrum of art just covered misery and Spongebob. Oh, maybe it does. It's late. Tetchy. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.19.83.234 |
William Castle's The Shooter. A man steps out half-way through the film and actually shoots you in the neck. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
Jesus. I wondered why I'd been happy these past few months. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.241.143 |
I wish he would; it would be more intersting than this conversation.  | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.19.83.234 |
Bye bye. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.203.110 |
Can I say before I go again that the desire to entertain is one of the sweetest, most considerate things humanity is capable of? We already know we can shit and kill, thank you very much. Yeah, bye. | ||
| Chris_morris (Chris_morris) Username: Chris_morris Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 98.220.186.44 |
And I'm going to buy some sweets that taste of shit because hey, you know, they might be kinda challenging. The world is a vast place, Tony, with a multitude of pleasures. If you don't like Haneke, that's okay, just go find something else. You turned off Funny Games a quarter of the way through. You tried it and it wasn't for you. It's not like you're dumb or anything. You're just not wired that way. That shouldn't bother anyone, mate. So why bother attacking those who do admire his work? I frankly don't think your disdain for "challenging" fare is going to change anyone's mind. I'm sure I would prefer razor wire to some of the writers or filmmakers you or Proto like as well, but I seriously doubt any argument of mine would make either of you like them less. You like what you like. You are what you are. I yam what I yam. Or something like that. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.3.64 |
I just recently saw FAMILY PLOT for the first time in my life. What a total unmitigated piece of dogshit. What a last film for so great a director to go out on.... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.241.143 |
Chris - don't bother trying to have you own opinions here. For some reason these idiots take it as a personal attack. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.3.64 |
Shaddup, you. Zed, you. Guy what has opinions and stuff. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Gentlemen! Gentlemen! For the record, I admire Hitchcock's overall achievement more than Haneke's, but I'd rather watch a Haneke film than listen to his pontification about it (well, that's true of Funny Games, at any rate). I do think the comparison with Antonioni fits better than comparing him with Hitchcock. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Family plot isn't an unmitigated piece of dogshit. It's far from beig Hitch's best but it does contain some flashes of Hitchcock's visual genius. The scene with the characters walking round the graveyard in longshot so we can see their paths converging is excellent. Unfortunately the story is rather pedestrian and not as engaging as most of his other work. My comparison between Haneke and hitchcock was for technique rather than tone and I think it does bear up. I can think of very few (if any) directors with such a sense of camera placement and angle to create mood and tell the story. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.154 |
For some reason these idiots take it as a personal attack. I wonder why? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I must admit, I thought I'd wandered onto an IMDB messageboard with the quality of some of the comments here. C'mon guys, you can do better. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.20.22 |
Haneke prides himself on being an agent provocateur and reading back over this thread he's a damn good one!  | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
On my video shelf I have a copy of STUART LITTLE next to DELIVERANCE. Different people like different films. The same people like different films. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
What a mash up movie that could be - Stuart Little in deverance... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.253.43 |
A waste of celluloid, Weber. That's almost 2 hours I'll never get back.... Btw: did the blonde chick with the sunglasses influence the look of the killer in DRESSED TO KILL? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
But you know shit all about film Craig.  Anyway I'd rather watch Family plot adozen times than any Michael Bay film once. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Now who's sounding like a typical IMDB poster. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.253.43 |
Anyway I'd rather watch Family plot adozen times than any Michael Bay film once. Prove it, right now. Rather than watch a Michael Bay film once, I want to see you right now watch FAMILY PLOT a dozen times, Mr. Big Talk.... ... I really just want you to feel pain and torment, that's all.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Ok. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Right. Done it. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.253.43 |
You bastard - I saw you fudge that 9th go-around.... Have we murdered this thread yet? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
No we haven't. Yet. Actually it was the tenth go round when I delivered my fudge to mr shanks. That should have finished it off. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.253.43 |
Actually it was the tenth go round when I delivered my fudge to mr shanks.  - surely this must mean something else than the image conjured.... Hey, Weber - here's something I thought you might find funny - a fake site for the new Sandler/Rogen comedy: this is supposed to be the character Sandler plays in the film. The logs are more scary than funny, because you could see Hollywood actually making these films. The film clip for SAYONARA DAVEY made me laugh.... http://www.george-simmons.com/work.php | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.71 |
I've got aerache. And not because of this thread. God, it's a pain. Like toothache, hurts all the more because it's closer to your brain I think. A bit like syphilis in some folk's cases! | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.71 |
earache | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.233.32 |
Very long profile in this week's The New Yorker (10/08/09) on Haneke, for those interested. Here's an abstract: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/05/091005fa_fact_lane | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.18.104 |
I'm really looking forward to 'The White Ribbon'. Haneke's films are always enigmatic and frequently touched by genius. This one already sounds marvellous and if, as the reviewer states, it's his best and most beautiful work to date we should be in for something very special indeed! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.227.179 |
So I finally just saw THE WHITE RIBBON, and literally laughed out loud. No, not at the sublime film - at this take on it (SPOILERS): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1149362/board/nest/167389502 (I dunno, it might just be funnier if the somberness of the movie is fresh in your mind, and then you stumble across this) | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
It's still the best thing I've seen in the cinema this millennium. I have the poster up on the wall behind me as I'm typing this. Did you get the resonances with Wolf Rilla's 'Village Of The Damned', Craig? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
I got more of a resonance with Who Could Kill a Child? and Children of the Corn. Great film, though...extremely haunting. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
The gorgeous B&W cinematography and the way the group of blonde Aryan children all walked along in a tight-knit, almost regimented group reminded me forcibly of Rilla's film - interesting that he too was German. Haven't seen 'Who Could Kill A Child?' but I hated the film version of 'Children Of The Corn' - the short story is King's finest imo. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
I was put in mind of the Hitler Youth, myself, rather than the kids in Rilla's film. But good art triggers very personal (and very different), responses doesn't it? The White Ribbon is barely a genre film at all, yet I think it's one of the best horror films of recent years. |