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Lincoln Brown (Lincoln_brown)
Username: Lincoln_brown

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 124.181.89.123
Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 11:10 pm:   

Clive, that is. New antho featuring stories inspired by 'The Hellbound Heart'. Brilliant line up of authors - Morris, Williams, Lebbon, Matheson etc. Link - http://www.conradwilliams.net/
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.157.19.178
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 07:44 am:   

Move on, Clive, move on!
With the remake of Hellraiser on the cards it feels like he's stuck in the eighties, endlessly turning out variants of early great stuff like some sort of Soylent Green (which was veggie matter in the books btw, I've just found).
Still, might be good, I suppose.
(Excuse morning grouchiness - wifey away and one of the lads decided to sleep in with me, followed by his brother. With their perpetually kicking and spinning wind turbine legs I've not slept a bloody wink...)
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.177.66
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 08:42 am:   

Hmm. This probably relates to the Hellraiser films as well. I quite liked Hellraiser, but the only reaction inspired in me by 'The Hellbound Heart' was that it just about rewarded the time spent reading it. There was far better stuff by other writers in the anthology it first appeared in. I'm not claiming the story was falsely hyped: lots of people really loved it. I just thought it was OK.

Tony, my sympathies for your bad night. I'm in a bitter mood for various reasons I won't go into.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.177.66
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 08:54 am:   

In fairness, I think Candyman is a better film and 'The Forbidden' a better story.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 09:16 am:   

In fairness, I think Candyman is a better film and 'The Forbidden' a better story.

Hear-hear.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.157.19.178
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 09:19 am:   

'I'm in a bitter mood for various reasons I won't go into'
Tell me about it. Yes, things have been building up on my plate too, in ways I can't even begin to describe. In fact there is no-one I can tell, and it's horrible.
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.143.178.131
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 10:21 am:   

Candyman is much superior. I've always been a little cold on Barker to be honest. I really enjoyed The Great and Secret Show and Everville when I was in my teens and there was quite a lot to enjoy in Books of Blood but overall I find his prose way too purple and his themes very self indulgent.
Watched Midnight Meat Train at the weekend and it was just dreadful. The actual camera work and photography was fine but the story was so dull and the pay-off so ridiculous that I really wish I hadn't rented it out.
The documentary on Barker in the extras was rather better but what's happened to the man? He looks really unwell and his voice was like Tom Waits after a night on the fags and booze. Hope he's okay because the signs weren't great.
Overall, a sometimes interesting writer but I'm not sure that he deserves the reputation he has.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 10:28 am:   

Jonathan, Clive Barker has certainly been ill in recent years, though I heard he was recovering after an operation.
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.143.178.131
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 10:31 am:   

That may well explain it. Hopefully he's a lot better than he looked about a year ago.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 10:38 am:   

Tony, I'm sorry to hear that. Take care. Remember there are always helplines and counselling services that you can talk to confidentially. The Samaritans aren't always great, but they're not the only game in town. The NHS can be surprisingly helpful in my experience.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 89.19.90.134
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 10:48 am:   

He's had an op on his vocal cords. I understand it's not serious.

I think Hellraiser, despite some iffy dialogue, has endured because it contains some startling and original images. A skinless vitruvian man having a fag. A rose expanding like a wound, blood blossoming in a IV bag.

Candyman has some of the best acting I've seen in a popular horror film -- the girl who cuckolds Helen is super in all three of her scenes, especially her first meeting with Helen.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.157.19.178
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 01:51 pm:   

Thanks Joel - would you believe I might have partly sorted it with a single text? No-one's been hurt, I might add!
Oh, and folk have helped.
I couldn't listen to this Barker interview I heard recently; it made me wince.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.224.117
Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 03:30 pm:   

and 'The Forbidden' a better story.

Yes! The finest short-story by Barker, imho - that he's ever written. Wasn't a fan of the film, but I've not seen it since it was in theaters....
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.72.14.113
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 12:33 pm:   

I'm still a big fan of Clive Barker's work. His warped imagination and incredibly visual sense of the fantastic is second to none for me. This combined with the raw physicality of his writing - you can almost smell the blood and the sweat and the stink of sulphur - gives his prose a visceral potency I haven't experienced from any other writer.
But what really makes me love his work is his brilliantly deranged sense of the absurd and a wicked sense of humour. 'Mr B. Gone' was the last genre book to really make me laugh out loud - like Tom Sharpe had written a spoof of Dante's Inferno. Wonderful stuff!!

I'm sorry to hear he's been ill and hope it's nothing serious.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:06 pm:   

"would you believe I might have partly sorted it with a single text?"

Please don't tell me you've joined the Jesus Army...
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.163.6.13
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:14 pm:   

Stephen I totally agree with what you write about Barker's talents. Must also not forget that Barker is a very talented painter as well. He has been doing more painting than writing really, well atleast if you look at his output this last decade. And he delivered Abarat 3 recently so stuffs on its way.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:19 pm:   

Stephen, if you haven't already you should read Harlan Ellison's DEATHBIRD STORIES and Tom Reamy's SAN DIEGO LIGHTFOOT SUE. Those (and early Matheson) are Barker's sources. His early work essentially repackaged classic American horror (of the 50s, 60s and 70s) for a UK readership that had read very little of it. Then he covered his tracks by going on in interviews about Christopher Marlowe...

(NB I don't think these are grievous sins. I'm just noting. Most writers are derivative in some degree.)
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.163.6.13
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:24 pm:   

And he allegedly wrote the first draft of a 1000 + page sequel to the Hellbound Heart where he 'finally nails the bastard for good.' I have to admit it is one of my favourite novellas. Earthling reissued a delux limited with the first chapter of the original manuscript as an extra which was just great.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:51 pm:   

I, too, was disappointed with "The Hellbound Heart" when I finally read it. The film was far better - but Barker's finest cinematic hour is NIGHTBREED, as far as I'm concerned. I just wish the studio had shown faith and allowed him to deliver the film he envisaged.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.149.124
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:30 pm:   

Joel - I might have been premature in my assesment.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 218.168.183.94
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:47 pm:   

Tony, sorry to hear things are bad, and hope they get better soon. You're not alone, if that's any consolation. :-/

Candyman is my favourite Clive Barker adaptation. I thought Nightbreed was okay, but I found some of the creatures a little cheesy. It's always nice to see David Cronenberg as a murderous psychiatrist, though!
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.163.6.13
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:47 pm:   

Yes Nightbreed was great. I hope they will let Barker get access to the 45 minutes of deleted material and release it. I don't know why the studio is holding on to the material. He's been trying to access it for years and years. Someone got a VHS dump of that material, and it started this petition online to get stuff released. I hope it happens! I think Hellraiser works because of the power of the images. As Barker said, he had no idea what he was doing, but it worked, and I think it still holds up well, all things considered. His early student films Salome and the other one, which I can't remember now, were really great experimental works as well. One of them infact has 'the man with the pins' in it. Black and white. They were released on DVD some time back.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 218.168.183.94
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:55 pm:   

Holy simultaneous posts!
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.163.6.13
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 03:03 pm:   

Joel: 'His (barker) early work essentially repackaged classic American horror (of the 50s, 60s and 70s) for a UK readership that had read very little of it.'

I discovered him with King at an early age, and it made me go back and kind of look for the older stuff, to unlock some of those startling images. I discovered Ramsey Campbell because of the Barker intro etc.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.243.210
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 03:50 pm:   

His early work essentially repackaged classic American horror (of the 50s, 60s and 70s) for a UK readership that had read very little of it.

It explains what I've said before here: "The Hellbound Heart" simply has to be a rip-off of POSSESSION; at least its core plot element is... which had disappointed me when I saw the movie, because I always loved that story (still do like it), and found it so grotesquely original....
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Matthew Fryer (Matthew_fryer)
Username: Matthew_fryer

Registered: 08-2009
Posted From: 90.202.180.119
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 08:49 pm:   

I love the whole Hellraiser mythos, so I'm looking forward to this one. Some of the interpretations and visions in the Hellraiser comic books of the early 90s are absolutely exquisite.

For me, the best part of the Hellbound Heart is the opening chapter. What a sequence. Frank's fearful yet excited preparations for the summoning, the female cenobite with the decapitated heads and the line of tongues...
It's in my head as though I've seen it. In fact, they should've used it in the film, rather than just the box and the hooks.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.206.9
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 08:53 pm:   

If you want more NIGHTBREED:

http://www.clivebarker.info/morenightbreed.html
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.206.9
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 08:56 pm:   

I love the tiniest things about it. Like the brief shot with Cronenberg's back to the camera as he spreads glossy photographs that we can't quite see on a desk. Or the broken window with blue sky behind it when symbolising Boone's revival and so much more. Barker's a better director than he's given credit for.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 09:08 pm:   

Agreed, Proto - Lord of Illusions is also, IMHO, an unjustly maligned piece of work. Some of the imagery is terrifying, and the first 20 mins are superb.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.212.3
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:31 pm:   

Watching BLACK SUNDAY for the first time recently, I realised where Nix's burial mask came from Bava.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.212.3
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   

"Watching BLACK SUNDAY for the first time recently, I realised where Nix's burial mask came from Bava."

Why do I always have a mistake in my posts?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.212.3
Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:41 pm:   

No vampires, please.

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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.163.6.13
Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 08:15 pm:   

I wasn't too fond of Lord of Illusions, but again it had some wonderful images scattered around the film. I still think that the opening chapter of the Hellbound Heart is one of the great pieces of dark fantastic literature of the last century; hence Paul Miller's idea to include the first chapter of that manuscript in the reissued version. Cronenberg was also cast as a killer in To Die For, a wonderful black comedy with Nicole Kidman and Mat Dillon if I remember correctly.
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.72.14.113
Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 11:46 am:   

I've seen Clive Barker's three best known films and for me they suffer from the law of diminishing returns as he grew more famous and the budgets grew bigger.

'Hellraiser' is still one of the greatest horror films ever to come out of Britain with unforgettable imagery and a wonderfully grainy look to it that accentuated the inspired make-up effects for me.

'Nightbreed' was way too glossy looking and the monsters left nothing to the imagination in a bad over-indulgent way. There was still enough originality in evidence to make it well worth the effort however and Cronenberg was an inspired choice to play Decker (the best thing in the film).

'Lord Of Illusions' is, I agree, unfairly maligned as an outright disaster with enough startling imagery and originality to raise it above the run-of-the-mill. But again the whole things looks far too clean and glossy and is hamstrung by the woeful miscasting of Scott Bakula in the lead, needed someone with more gravitas imho.

Barker's writing and artwork never disappoints (for me) but he is prone to too many lapses of judgement as a filmmaker. But 'Hellraiser' shows what he is capable of when everything clicks just right. If you ask me...
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.241.223
Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 04:09 pm:   

Anyone ever seen RAWHEAD REX? I did, long ago, but remember virtually nothing about it... I guess that's a statement in itself about the film....
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.72.14.113
Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 04:20 pm:   

'Rawhead Rex' is one of my favourite stories from the Books Of Blood and the film (not by Barker) falls into the so bad it's brilliant category.

The paradox with Clive is that his visual descriptive powers on the page are so potent that rarely can the actualised thing on screen match what has been conjured in the reader's mind.

'Hellraiser' is the only time moving image matched imagined image for me.
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John (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 09:56 pm:   

'Rawhead Rex' (film) is a bit of a mess - which is a shame, because there's scope for a great film there. Of Barker's own directorial efforts, I still think Hellraiser's the strongest. Both Nightbreed and Lord of Illusions suffer from a severe atmosphere deficit.

I've still got a lot of time for The Hellbound Heart - the original concept of the Cenobites (before subsequent sequels and comics took the 'Hell' part of the title a bit too literally) is genuinely strange and mysterious. I'm hopeful that The Scarlet Gospels - if he ever finishes it - follows his mythos rather than try to incorporate all the bollocks that came since.

I get a bit sad when I think of Barker's early work. I still believe that moving to America was the worst thing he ever did - too much time fucking about with the movie industry and this bloody never-ending Abarat sequence has ruined his work. Mr B. Gone was an utter disaster of a novel.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.173.198
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 10:32 pm:   

Anyone ever seen RAWHEAD REX? I did, long ago, but remember virtually nothing about it...

Me too - it was a favourite story from BoB, but the film was forgetable. I think it was straight-to-video here.
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.4.20.22
Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 01:41 am:   

I think Barker's post-80s books have been unfairly maligned because he chose to broaden the fantastical elements that were always there in his work from the very beginning.

I would go so far as to say that in my experience he is the pre-eminent dark fantasist of the modern era (whereas Ramsey is the pre-eminent horror stylist). He's also not given enough credit for the humour in his work.

His filmmaking certainly suffered from the move to America and the bigger budgets and more polished and less effective special effects that came with it. His writing continued to grow though imo.

I thought 'Rawhead Rex' was a hoot. Dreadful script, woeful acting and the most hilarious fake rubbery monster since the glory days of the 1950s.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.177.161.230
Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 11:38 am:   

Just noticed that Christopher Barker has had his acclaimed, out-of-print TENEBROUS TALES (2010) brought out as a kindle: http://eleganthorrors.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/tenebrous-tales-finally-published-a s-e.html?m=1
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2014 - 07:41 pm:   

Just purchased, Des - thanks for the heads-up about that! In fact, I've just bought my first ever Ligotti collection too. Nothing like broadening my reading horizons ...

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