| Author | Message | ||
     Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.108.231 |
On saturday night my wife and I watched a couple of MR James stories that the BBC had adapted for their Ghost Story for Christmas strands way back when. Firstly we had 'Whistle and I'll Come To You', followed by 'The Treasure of Abbot Thomas', both of which we enjoyed, even though we'd seen them many times. WaICTY in particular struck me as a good example of what is wrong with much of today's horror. Jonathan Miller's direction is precise and patient. The story is allowed to unfold without the need to resort to clumsy exposition or unsubtle foreshadowing. The acting is excellent, the stark black and white photography looks almost contemporary (whereas the faded colour of the later MR James' adaptations now betrays their age), and the scenes of terror, when they eventually come, are truly frightening. I realise I'm preaching to the converted on here, but I can't imagine anyone watching this and not being impressed by what unfolds. When I told my wife it was made in the late sixties she was amazed by how effective the chills are, in comparison to modern examples. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Oh yes, I'm with you all the way on this, Steve. I'm no expert on cinematography, but these Ghost Stories for Christmas were excellent examples of subtle storytelling on film - scaring by suggestion, and being all the more powerful for that. It certainly beats all the upfront blood and gore of today's films in my opinion. I think the scariest Ghost Story for Christmas was "Lost Hearts", the bit where the youngster sees the two "ghost kids" through the round window in the door. Scares the hell out of me does that bit - and I've heard other people say the same about it. | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.108.231 |
Yes, I remember it, Caroline. I might watch that one this weekend. There's something about their weird green faces and long fingernails that unsettles me. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.142.192.107 |
With these films there is the sense of 'the hidden hand', nothing remotely intrusive, the director's persona kept to minimum, the story shining. It's a (not technique) mindset we don't have these days | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.18.104 |
I think the 'technique' is called naturalistic. Those M.R. James adaptations are amongst the finest and most frightening ghost stories ever filmed in any medium and worthy of being turned into portmanteau movies for cinema release if you ask me. I'll never forget seeing 'Lost Hearts' when it was first broadcast as a very young child and the recurrent nightmares about those staring children it caused for years afterward. Didn't see it again until a couple of years ago with my then girlfriend and it petrified us both. It haunts me yet... | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.251.193.147 |
The Jonathan Miller one is super, particularly Michael Horden's bumbler. Some of the comedy scenes remind me of David Lynch -- the protracted arrival at the boarding house in particular. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.188.242 |
I like the scene in which Hordern's character is pottering around in the little graveyard, and his walks along the dunes and beach. The 'spooky' conversation between him and the proprietor was another highlight for me. I think the use of sound was very effective, as terrifying as anything that was shown, or suggested at, onscreen. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.80 |
Take a half decent director with any M.R. James story, and the result is often than not a masterclass in how to scare the audience silly. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.252.190 |
portmanteau movies Again with the "portmanteau" - have we ever established exactly what this means?... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.80 |
Yes, it's a seaside town in Wales. Aren't they all (: | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.21.23.205 |
I too have a soft spot for these adaptations - haven't we all? My personal favourite has to be A View From a Hill. The colours are lovely. When the protagonist does his bit of reconnaissance in the countryside, you can see his breath. The powerful effect of a lone figure seen in the distance (to me the single most chilling element in the adaptation of Whistle) is repeated to good effect and the 'emergence' of the cathedral is simply stunning. I'd like to know where they filmed the final bit in the railway station. It reminded me a lot of another powerful adaptation, that of Dickens' "The Signalman". | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.143.135.220 |
My autistic son HATES far away figures in spooky tales. He says their coming up to you slowly is the creepiest thing imaginable. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.80 |
Like the Amicus anthology films, wouldn't it have been great if somebody in the 60's had done an anthology film of James' work. Perhaps not an Amicus style company, too schlocky in style, but somebody else with a little class to their name. I wonder what they might have chosen as the three stories to adapt? | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.80 |
Maybe schlocky was too strong a word for Amicus. I loved their movies...I can feel Mr Probert rising from his crimson lined casket in readiness for rebuke. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.143.135.220 |
Thing is, there was something mysterious about these films turning up in the dead of night on the beeb, tucked away. Everything's so fanfared now, and trailers do ruin things. Yesterday I found an old Theordore Sturgeon in a 2nd hand bookshop, 'Venus plus X'. It had no information whatsoever on the cover regarding what it was about. It's hard to explain how exciting it is, finding such a thing. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.80 |
Tony - I agree about 'there was something mysterious about these films turning up in the dead of night on the beeb, tucked away'. That's why I love sticking on such wonderful gems late night all the way over here in Warsaw (I moved last week). Poland doesn't have that love affair that we West Westerners have, and I miss it. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.251.215.167 |
There was a piece on BBC Radio 4's Film Programme about scheduling -- it's our old friend advanced capitalism again, I'm afraid. There aren't as many b&w films on BBC 2 (in particular) because they're not commercial. Could be a whole generation is missing out on a cinematic education? "My autistic son HATES far away figures in spooky tales. He says their coming up to you slowly is the creepiest thing imaginable." I'm with him, completely. There's a very scary one in PAPERHOUSE. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
I've been rereading James lately. The Treasure of Abbot Thomas is one of finest tales, in my opinion. The TV adaptation was a bit naff, tho. Still, a writer who relies on such powerful, frequently off-hand and solitary lines of prose is hard to convey onscreen. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.80 |
Oh, yes, Paperhouse. Fantastic creepy film. Wasn't that Bernard Rose? I love that film. Not seen it in years. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
I also like The Tractate Middoth. That final scene when the narrator revisits the tree transform the whole tale. And all conveyed by one visual connection between the cobwebs on the old guy's face and the one behind the tree. Effects so delicate, they're almost not there. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.180.157 |
James is a poetic writer. He can nail things. Proto - I make my kids watch black and white films. They like them. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
Simon Strantzas has this ability of making the terror almost invisible. Witness his tale 'The Other Village'. There's a line about 'hundreds of tiny hands shaking the trees' that's impossibly frightening - impossible because it means nothing and everything simultaneously. Masterly. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.168.160.222 |
One of the best performances in any screen entertainment - Michael Hordern in 'Whistle..." | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
My partner Michelle hated it: she thought he was like Mr Bean. :<0 | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.251.220.167 |
Hey, a scary Mr. Bean ep! I'd watch that. | ||
| Alansjf (Alansjf) Username: Alansjf Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 93.96.45.148 |
A DVD boxed set of all the Ghost Stories For Christmas would be great. While not quite the next best thing (maybe the next next), there's always Youtube ... A Warning To the Curious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFNczr0oBA4 Lost Hearts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNHlDwot6_8&feature=related Oh Whistle and I'll Come to You: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83CIwVKNjM4&feature=related The Signal-Man (Dickens); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06WUYsI0ic Plus the more recent adaptations of two further M.R. James stories: A View From a Hill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzMZfHx-GVk Number 13: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KShJrRVhB1w I've just posted the first video of each story, but they're all complete (I'm pretty sure they are, anyway), just divided into 10 minute chunks. There only seems to be the first part of 'The Stalls of Barchester' and no sign at all of 'The Treasure of Abbot Thomas', which is a shame, but the Classic Ghost Stories with Robert Powell as James are up there too, as are the more recent ones with Christopher Lee. So, for folks who haven't seen them, here's your chance. Even in this format, 'A Warning to the Curious' and 'Lost Hearts' in particular are still extremely effective. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
I think the BFI released all (or most?) of them on DVD a couple of years ago - but they were expensive. Isn't Ramsey on one of them, reading a James story, or a Jamesian-inspired one, or something like that? | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
The best thing about Ramsey's reading of The Guide on the 'Whistle' DVD is how the wine bottle by his side is emptier every time the camera pulls back. | ||
| Barbara Roden (Nebuly) Username: Nebuly Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 142.179.3.234 |
DEAD OF NIGHT (1945) is perhaps the closest we have to a Jamesian portmanteau ghost film; none of the stories are adapted from James tales, but all are very much in the classic English style (except for the final one, perhaps, with Michael Redgrave as the ventriloquist). In his book HALLIWELL'S HUNDRED, film critic Leslie Halliwell selects DoN as one of his hundred favourite films, and about the only criticism he can level at it is that the five stories all seem to be jostling for top spot; he wishes they'd gone with one really strong story as a centrepiece (he nominates "Oh Whistle"), with the other four reduced to cameos. As far as black-and-white films go: I've heard a number of people say they don't watch them because they're "boring". Which is of course rubbish, and means either that they haven't been exposed to the right b-and-w films, or they're ignorant (or maybe a bit of both). Tim loves black-and-white films, simply because he's seen a lot of them with me, and has learned to appreciate the films, without getting hung up on the presentation. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
I remember seeing DEAD OF NIGHT when I was about 14 years old. I waited up to some ridiculous hour to catch it, on a Friday night. It was double-billed with Night of the Demon. What a night that was!!! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.4.243 |
My autistic son HATES far away figures in spooky tales. He says their coming up to you slowly is the creepiest thing imaginable. Tony, he might like Lynch's INLAND EMPIRE then - there's a scene there in particular, where a faraway character comes up to you not slowly - he'll never be scared of the other way, again....  Tim loves black-and-white films, simply because he's seen a lot of them with me, and has learned to appreciate the films, without getting hung up on the presentation. To even have to say that part, is so sad. I know you don't mean to imply there IS something wrong with it... but I too do see this attitude a lot, alas.... Michael Hordern was absolutely riveting as Prospero in the 1980 BBC production of "The Tempest." | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
I've got Inland Empire sitting on a shelf. Trying to find the right mood to watch it in. I've yet to watch anything by Lynch which hasn't failed to disturb me. A true visonary. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
'Inland Empire' was an incredible film!! Blew everything else off the screen that year for me. I'd consider it Lynch's masterpiece and the closest he's ever got again to the nightmare intensity of 'Eraserhead'. I must see it again soon... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.4.243 |
Again, I hold (but am not claiming definite authority) that a "portmanteau" film is distinct from an "anthology" film (unconnected stories) or an "ensemble" film (cutting back and forth between different stories) in that: it utilizes the same characters, but throws them into distinctly different stories - the stories are either unconnected, or just barely, tenuously connected, and they are sequential (one after the other [i.e., in time] with no intercuts). If I'm right, it's story-structurally a rare film form, one you almost never see. The best example I can think of is, again, HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS... M.A.S.H. would also, I think, qualify (from what I remember - also Altman's O.C. & STIGGS)... but it's hard to think of others... or I'm just totally off.... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
You can borrow my copy. (; | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.4.243 |
Frank, you should watch it. Don't expect to "understand" it, and you'll be fine. And watch for **the scene**... you'll know it when you see it....  Notice how Lynch dvds have no chapters? Must be intentional.... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
Craig - shit! No chapters, really. No, I never noticed. Nor anyone else who I've watched them with. Okay, you've convinced me. I'll watch it at the weekend before I start my new job on Monday. Probably not a good idea, but what the hell. You're right about the anthology and portmanteau (oh, how utterly gracious of you to say so Frank). I've never seen O.C. & Stiggs. I was told it was one of those films which you either love or hate. I only remember it being shown once on British TV and that was on a great BBC 2 film programe called Moviedrome. Altman...hang on... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>DEAD OF NIGHT (1945) is perhaps the closest we have to a Jamesian portmanteau ghost film; none of the stories are adapted from James tales, but all are very much in the classic English style << Oh yes, I definitely agree there! There was similar subsequent film from Ealing - "Halfway House" (pretty much the same cast and crew, I believe). I've always loved "Dead of Night" but I hadn't come across "Halfway House" until it cropped up on TV a few years ago. It's nowhere near as good as DoN, but it too has the same typically English ghost theme running through it. I think that's still lurking on my video shelf somewhere too ... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
Craig - Just checked my girlfriend's DVD collection and saw she had Altman's 'The Wedding'. I've never seen of it, though it does ring a bell. Is that worth watching, too? | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
I saw 'Halfway House' on daytime telly as well a few years ago and it's a minor gem with a lovely spooky atmosphere. The recent ok-ish horror 'Reeker' was almost a remake! | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
Caroline - Just checked out Halfway House. Is it available on DVD? | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
In any of the literature I read growing up the old Amicus multi-story films were always referred to as portmanteau horror films and I kind of like the phrase. Another underrated British horror from the early 50s is the misleadingly titled 'Three Cases Of Murder'. It features Eamonn Andrews (of the big red book) as the host of three tales of the supernatural all of which are of a very high standard, particularly the first story about a haunted painting. Well worth checking out for anyone who hasn't seen it! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Frank - I don't think Halfway House is on DVD. It's strange really as I've never seen it on TV before or since that one time it was shown (must have been the same time you saw it, Stephen). Also, I'd never come across it in any of my books about genre films. It's almost as if it didn't exist (just like the halfway house!). It'd be funny if I went to play the tape again and it was blank ... Spooky, eh? | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
Too much information. I'm all googled out. Eamon Holmes!!! Give me a sec.... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
Orson Wells, no less. I'm comprising my Xmas list as I type. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
No, Frank - Eamon Andrews!  | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
Caroline - Halfway House must be located at all costs. Check that video. Do it now...before it's too late. Be quick though...I'll keep a look out. (Sorry, too much coffee today. Been rambling since 6.40 this morning) | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
I definitely saw it... I know I did.  It was set during wartime and featured a disparate bunch of people all winding up at a lonely country inn and then... memories growing hazy. What were we talking about again? | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
I seem to remember seeing "Three Cases of Murder" a while back too. Didn't tape it though - not sure why ...  I do have a couple of Boris Karloff anthologies/portmanteaus on my video shelf though. They're not the usual ones - Thriller, etc. Can't recall the names offhand. Must check them out ... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
dunno...something about people...propaganda something or not... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>It was set during wartime and featured a disparate bunch of people all winding up at a lonely country inn and then... << That's definitely the one. I'm going to have a rummage through my videos later - sorry, guys, need to go do some work now ... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
Caroline - christ, did I write Eammon Holmes? I did, didn't I. Yes, I meant 'This Is Your Life's' once great pugilist. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.8.98 |
Frank, any Altman (except COOKIE'S FORTUNE) is worth watching, imho. Me, I loved A WEDDING - but then, I understand, Altman's not for everyone's tastes. A WEDDING is Altman at his usual manic, choatic, naturalistic, no-ends-tied-neatly best. Don't expect (as with O.C. & STIGGS, or anything by him) traditional storyline structures - don't expect them, mind, though they are there lurking (and some are less opaque than others - THE LONG GOODBYE, McCABE AND MRS. MILLER, etc.) - and you'll be fine. Altman will one day be vaulted to the top 10 directors that ever lived (as of today), again, imho.... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.8.98 |
For those of you who like horror too, of the strange and eerie and under-the-surface variety - you can't beat IMAGES by Altman. Also, the strikingly good 3 WOMEN is subtly creepy and sinister too... and boasts a performance by Shelly Duvall that was the best of her entire career, and goes down as one of the greats of the entire 1970's.... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.99 |
I hate horror. It's infantile and silly. Writers such as Shaun Hutson can't believe we readers think for one moment we believe any of the stuff they make-up could actually happen in real life, do they? Yours, an irate Daily Mail reader. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
Craig! 3 Women is an all time fave. It's the Lynch film Lynch never made, only somehow more assured and creepy. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.12.223 |
It's the Lynch film Lynch never made That's a good way of putting it, Tony... you could also say - correct me if I'm off base here? - that it's the Robert Aickman movie he never actually made.... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.101 |
What if Aickman did make a film? A secret film. Crap story idea or what? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
3 Women might be it. I told Ramsey I thought it was like Aickman's work and it turned out he'd told Aickman it was like his work when the film came out; dunno what happened about it. With Aickman it would have to be an unfinished, lost film, like that one those students made of Picnic at Hanging Rock, but had to stop when Peter Weird started making his. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
Sorry; that post shows signs of re-editing, which there was. Re-editing!! Dang, that's like 'pre-ordering'. I hate those things. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
For me the film that comes closest to the spirit of Robert Aickman would be 'L'avventura' (1960) by Michelangelo Antonioni. But then I'm crazy about Italian cinema. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.240.19 |
3 Women might be it. I told Ramsey I thought it was like Aickman's work and it turned out he'd told Aickman it was like his work when the film came out Really, Tony?... was this mentioned here before, and I forgot?... or did I nail it?... I guess I'm more accurate than even *I* thought! | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
Ages ago I brought it up and Ramsey said yes, he'd spoken to Aickman about it, saying it was like his stuff. I'm not sure if Aickman saw it though. It is pretty cool when you feel you've tuned into something like that. I wasn't sure about L'Avventura being Aickmanesque; there's something whimsical about him that wasn't in that film. I think! | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.18.104 |
Strange, I've never found Aickman whimsical or comforting in any way. His stories leave me feeling shivery, confused and deeply unsettled with a craving to KNOW that has no way of being fulfilled - which is what I also got from 'L'Avventura' and 'Picinic At Hanging Rock' for that matter. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.18.104 |
I'd also describe many of Ingmar Bergman's great movies as Aickmanesque. 'Wild Strawberries', 'Persona', 'Hour Of The Wolf', etc. all have that tantalising air of mystery that is never fully resolved about them. I went through a serious Bergman phase a few years ago and was surprised just how many of his films could fit into the cerebral horror genre! | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
Yes! You're completely right. You see, I think whimsy can be dark. It'd certainly make a great shelf name at Borders; 'Dark Whimsy'. That or it's Peter's goth grandson detective. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
It's Neil Gaiman, isn't it? | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.103 |
Got Anansi Boys on the bookshelf. Not read it yet. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I went through a serious Bergman phase a few years ago and was surprised just how many of his films could fit into the cerebral horror genre! Ditto! I had exactly the same experience. "Cries & Whispers" is like the weirdest ghost story of all time. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Anansi Boys is a great book. It's a sort of comedic companion piece to American Gods (apparently the story idea originated while he was writing AG which is why it has similar themes). It's very funny and a cracking good fantasy adventure at the same time. Highly recommended | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.103 |
Weber - My girlfriend just read it and said it was fantastic. It's next on my list after Ramsey's Nazareth, though I'm sort of flirting with a science-fiction novel by Alastair Reynolds. The book is called Revelation Space. I've never heard of Reynolds, but I don't read a lot of sci-fi, so that doesn't mean much. Again, it's a recommendation of my girlfriend's. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I'm sort of flirting with a science-fiction novel by Alastair Reynolds. Don't bother, the sex will be awful. you get paper cuts... not pleasant... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.103 |
To reiterate: SMART ARSE  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Not for a while it wasn't. Luckily papercuts don't leave scars. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
You know sometimes I get the feeling that I might have just accidentally lowered the tone of a discussion. But I'm not sure. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
Zed, 'Cries And Whispers' is one I haven't actually seen but will seek out now post haste!  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I thought American Gods was very poor - a bloated retread of China Meiville's King Rat. I've never been convinced by Gaiman, though. I'm not a fan of that kind of goth-chic whimsy. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I've been a huge fan of Gaiman since his Sandman days. I loved American Gods. The night I finished it I had to stay up till 4am because I couldn't put it down till I knew how it ended. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
I tried reading a Gaiman novel, and it wasn't for me. I can certainly see their appeal, however. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I seem to remember running into the Landlord at a reading and signing session by Gaiman for American Gods. It (the signing) had to be moved from Waterstones itself to St Anne's Church just round the corner because of the number of people who'd booked for it. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Yeah, he's popular, and like Gary, I can see the appeal. Just not for me. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
I've read quite a bit of Gaiman's comic material and a few short stories and have to say they failed to grip me. I always saw him as a bit of an Alan Moore wannabe but haven't read enough of his post-comicbook fiction to give him a fair judgement. The fact several mates are always trying to force his books upon me has also kind of put me off lol. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.68 |
He's definitely one of us lot, though. He's a genuine hardcore genre fan, and that's no bad thing. Aren't they making American Gods with Johnny Depp as the demon, and Kevin Spacey as the angel? | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.108.231 |
I think his short stories are better than the novels. His longer work always seems like diluted Barker. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.77 |
Actually, Steve, now I come to think of it, he is a little reminiscent of Barker. I went off Barker for a while, but now I've got a couple of books on the shelf ready for reading. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
Just watched Lost Hearts on YouTube: pretty average, really. They just don't seem to 'get' James. Everything's far too literal and, uh, at the centre of the camera. It needs an oblique touch, hints and suggestions, ineffable yet resonant moments, etc. The Whistle' adaptation triumphs where the rest fail. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.203.130.157 |
I thought American Gods was very poor - a bloated retread of China Meiville's King Rat. I've never been convinced by Gaiman, though. I'm not a fan of that kind of goth-chic whimsy. I'm with you all the way there, Mr McMahon! Not that I may have very good taste. I spent the afternoon (in a meeting) making up pornographic versions of MR James stories. | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.108.231 |
Whistle and I'll Cum To You | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
The Pleasure of Abbot's (John) Thomas. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
"So he put his hand into the well-known nook under the pillow: only, it did not get so far. What he touched was, according to his account, a mouth, with teeth, and with hair about it, and, he declares, not the mouth of a human being. I do not think it is any use to guess what he said or did; but he was in a spare room with the door locked and his ear to it before he was clearly conscious again. And there he spent the rest of a most miserable night, looking every moment for some fumbling at the door: but nothing came. "It remains only for the narrator to observe that the next time he attended to his laundry he found a pair of crothless undergarments of a predilection which, he understood from sources perhaps best not mentioned here, to be popular in the north west of central Europe. But these matters shouldn't detain us if good taste continues to be observed. Suffice to say, his wife was considerably sour-faced for many a day when, upon enquiring after the aforementioned item of clothing, he informed her that he'd let the sanitary experts have it via the medium of that drum always wisely kept outside." | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.108.231 |
A Warning to the Bi-Curious | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Oh dear, even this thread has decended to the lowest possible level. And it wasn't me this time, honest it wasn't! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
It's Probert's fault. Cesspit between his ears, that man. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.21.23.151 |
The Prostate Middoth | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.21.23.151 |
Canon Alberic's Scrotum Martin's Very Close Indeed He's Wailing Well Oh, Whistle and I'll Cum Into You (the latter is a trifle obvious, but then some say it was obvious even in James's day) | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.203.130.166 |
I was thinking more along the lines of - Canon Alberic's Pillow Book After Dark in the Playing Fields (no need to change that one) The Balls of Barchester Cathedral Assing the Runes Mr Humphrey's Penetrance Count Magnus (another no changer there) and... The Pleasure of Abbot Thomas | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Lost Farts OK, it's not pornographic, but it's juvenile toilet humour. Will that do? | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.199.0.218 |
Well mine would have been Lost Tarts which could equally be a bakery-inspired piece | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.184.94 |
A Neighbour's Birthmark The Mezzotit I got more, but they're a bit filthy for this delicate board. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
All the Bergman films I've seen can be seen as dreams and memories, not real life as it's actually happening. Lost Hearts is so-so. Didn't have the elusive, niggling unease of Treasure or Whistle, or even the technical skill. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.163.177.179 |
It reminded me of Cronenberg's The Brood, another interesting but too-clumsy film. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.21.23.33 |
I've always liked The Brood. It hasn't dated nearly as much as some of Cronenberg's more recent fare, including The Fly. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I agree, Hubert. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
I've always considered 'The Brood' one of Cronenberg's most underrated films and a particular favourite of mine. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
A bit late on this but I can't log on at weekends normally... The Haunted inflatable dolls House The story of a disappearance and an appearance and another disappearance and another appearance etc of a sausage shaped thingy | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I've always considered 'The Brood' one of Cronenberg's most underrated films and a particular favourite of mine. Ditto. I think it's a genuinely terrifying film. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.189.223 |
Hope there's one for one more "ditto" because The Brood is one of my favourites too! It's one of Cronenberg's best, I think. My favourites of his are Videodrome, The Brood, Scanners and The Dead Zone, although I'm a big fan of most of his stuff. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.247.251 |
I only fairly recently saw ExISTENz, and it's a movie that's - compared to the pace of current movies that would be in this genre - ponderously, painfully slow-paced, seemingly limited in imaginative range (it could have gone SO much farther with its premises, either story-wise, or pure spectacle-wise), and bizarrely constructed... so why is it, it has remained in my mind as an actually superior piece? It seems to only get better in retrospect.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Because it IS a superior piece because it doesn't slavishly follow the rules and templates that you seem to think it should have done. Therefore it's not some kind of indentikit sci-fi schlocky piece of crap like - oh I don't know who to pick - Michael Bay would have made. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.247.251 |
Ah, but Cronenberg, the name itself, denotes an unusual movie-going experience... so that "template" is in place from the start.... I contend that extra-movie/story elements ARE elements of the movie/story, against the grain of all those who see such things - such artistic subjects - as perfectly carved and formed and stand-alone pieces of art, to be viewed and judged sans all but the words/what's on-screen. The author's name? It's part of judging a story. The title? Part of it. The cover illustration of the book you're reading? Part of it too - you can judge, to some extent, a book by its cover. Same with movie posters, interviews, trailers, etc. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
So you're saying that Cronenberg isn't allowed to vary the tone or pace of his films ever, just because you expect him to do it a certain way? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I think his next film should be a light hearted rom-com with a sub-plot about a young boy and his cute fluffy bunny rabbit. Just to piss you off. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
I don't think any genre director has ever hit a greater purple patch than Cronenberg's run from 'Shivers' (1975) to 'The Fly' (1986). Personally I think he started going off the boil a tad with the ostentation of 'Dead Ringers' (1988) but hey what do I know?... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.0.194 |
Weber, if Ramsey wrote light-hearted rom-com with a sub-plot about a young boy and his cute fluffy bunny rabbit, it would be - at first, surely, if not completely! - mystifying, because he's KNOWN FOR WRITING HORROR. That's why they don't file Stephen King books in the children's section. It's why we have "sections" at all in a bookstore. So we don't get enraged when we wander into "Cookbooks" and find porno mags. ... is this penetrating yet?.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
So does that mean that if he decided he was going to write a light hearted rom-com with a sub plot about a boy and his cute flufy wuffy bunny wabbit, he wouldn't be allowed to if he wanted to? Just because you expect him to write a horror story? you selfish twunt. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.0.194 |
You're allowed to do anything you want, Weber. But just don't be mad if people scratch their heads when you throw them a curve-ball. If all of a sudden you brought a kitty cat to your parents' house and said, "Mum and dad, meet my new girlfriend," they'd be confused, see, because they'd wonder what happened to the nice fluffy sheep you usually went for.... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.72.14.113 |
I'm beginning to suspect you two guys are the split personalities of one self-loathing individual. But who is trying to replace who???  | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.255.35 |
Ha! That would be funny, wouldn't it?... I said, wouldn't it, Weber? - oh, wait, gotta long on as "Weber" to respond to that.... | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.26.90.161 |
The natural heirs to Fry and Albie. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
No it wouldn't. That would be a nightmare akin to a fluffy wuffy bunny wabbit eating you from the inside, slowly gnawing it's way out through your intestines up through the neck and into the brain, finally emerging bloodied and grinning from ear to big floppy ear from your tortured screaming mouth. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Is "Gotta long on as Weber" a euphemism? | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>>Is "Gotta long on as Weber" a euphemism?<<< Oh God, I nearly wet myself laughing at that one!  | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.11.101 |
Is "Gotta long on as Weber" a euphemism? Wow... here I'm so very meticulous about my grammar and spelling, and I gotta go fuck up THAT.... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.21.233.160 |
A Freudian lapse, if ever there was one. |