| Author | Message | ||
     Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Which short story has special significance for you? For me, it's The Monkey's Paw by W.W. Jacobs. It may seem rather dated now, but its power is undeniable - Stephen King has used lines from the story ('A perfect fusillade of blows') in some of his own and as theme/inspiration for Pet Sematary and Apt Pupil. From King's Danse Macabre: 'The finest emotion is terror, that emotion which is called up in the tale of The Hook and also in that hoary old classic, "The Monkey's Paw." We actually see nothing outright nasty in either story; in one we have the hook and in the other there is the paw, which, dried and mummified, can surely be no worse than those plastic dogturds on sale at any novelty shop. It's what the mind sees that makes these stories such quintessential tales of terror. It is the unpleasant speculation called to mind when the knocking on the door begins in the latter story and the grief-stricken old woman rushes to answer it. Nothing is there but the wind when she finally throws the door open...but what, the mind wonders, might have been there if her husband had been a little slower on the draw with that third wish?' The closing, unforgettable line of The Monkey's Paw reminds me of a favourite poem, Shelley's Ozymandias: '...boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away.' The Monkey's Paw: http://arthursclassicnovels.com/arthurs/jacobs/mpaw10.html | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
TE WHIMPER OF WHIPPED DOGS by harlan Ellison. That story knows exactly where I live... | ||
| Michael_kelly (Michael_kelly) Username: Michael_kelly Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 174.92.34.108 |
For me it's always been Charles Beaumont's "Miss Gentilbelle." | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Ray Bradbury's The Women or what's the Jonathan Carroll short about the man with white sneakers in the woman's sex fantasy? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
It's in the Panic Hand collection - along with Mr Fiddlehead and Tired Angel which are also among my favourite ever short stories. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Lisa Tuttle's The Nest - for loss. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.153.249.0 |
"For me, it's The Monkey's Paw by W.W. Jacobs." =================== When I was very small in the Fifties, my parents (not enormous readers) had about twenty or thirty books on a bookcase, near the tin bath and the washing-copper. I can't remember the others (potboilers of some description) - but I do still retain one of them today that I salvaged somehow. An ancient collection of stories by WW Jacobs entitled 'The Lady of the Barge', a collection that includes 'The Monkey's Paw'. des | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
Special significance? Easy! Some Must Suffer by John Llewellyn Probert It was the first story I ever sent my Lady P to impress her and it must have worked.  | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 76.238.190.27 |
And oh, how I've suffered since!  | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Gah! It's not supposed to be one of your own stories, Your Infernal Majesty!  If it was, I'd have nominated my Zombies Pantaloons Are Go!! which was rejected by Bunty in 1981! | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Incidentally, Lord P, there's some great pictures of you and Gary at Screaming Dreams. http://www.screamingdreams.com/fantasycon2009.html | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
Gah! It's not supposed to be one of your own stories, Your Infernal Majesty! I know - I just couldn't resist a tiny bit of RCMB romance Oh dear there are loads, but I'll go with: 'Why Don't You Wash? Said the Girl with a Hundred Thousand Punds and No Relatives' by R Chetwynd-Hayes from 'The Unbidden' I read it when I was very young. It's horrible, it's funny, it has a great title (and an even better opening line) and I can still see the climactic horror in my mind's eye. The little JLP wanted to write stories just like it and had a lot of fun annoying English masters by trying, (when he wasn't writing Dr Phibes rip-offs). | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 76.238.190.27 |
"Punds"? | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 76.238.190.27 |
Clive Barker's "Dread" is possibly my all-time favourite short story. | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Blimey, that's one heck of a memorable story title... I've sent you a begging letter, I mean, an email, Your Highness. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
As mentioned elsewhere 'The Shadow Over Innsmouth' for its atmosphere and sense of escalating dread that ends in absolute terror, nerve-wracking pursuit and soul destroying revelation. A horror tour-de-force the like of which I've yet to read the equal. The story is the perfect distillation of my two favourite horror themes: the unwitting stranger who arrives in an outwardly normal small town that hides a dark secret and from which, try as they might, there is no escape & the individual who is driven to investigate their own history without realising the shattering secret they will unearth (e.g. 'Angel Heart'). I love that feeling of wanting to shout at a character "get the hell out of there!" or "for gods sake stop looking". | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.1.67 |
I've said it before, but probably "The Tugging" by Ramsey Campbell, only because it was the (perfect!) bridge for me so long ago, from Lovecraft and "old school" horror, into contemporary horror fiction. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
For me, it's a toss up between Jacobs' "The Monkey's Paw" and "The Vertical Ladder" by William Samsom from the 2nd Pan Book of Horror Stories. I don't know which one I read first, but the terror they both instilled in me whilst reading them was what originally got me hooked on horror. You could say, they made me what I am today!  | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.198.79 |
Blackwood's 'The Willows' for me. Reading it was a revelation, and to my mind it encapsulates everything a great weird tale should aspire to. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
A difficult choice, for there are so many stories that work for me. Hodgson's "The Derelict" comes to mind. I read it in my early teens and it was the very first story to give me a sleepless night. Spellbinding. I have yet to see a painting or drawing of the nightmarish vessel in that story. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Caroline, I'm working my way through all the Pan horrors at the minute. About to start The 17th. Do you remember the novella length story 'The Bushmaster' by Conrad Hill in The 16th? It's the one about the vacuum cleaner with a difference. A forgotten masterpiece imo. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
Stephen, 'The Bushmaster' is a fantastic story! I loved quite a lot of Conrad's stuff, including 'Wally' in Pan 15 which is hilarious, and 'Amanda Excresens' about the giant mushroom possessed by the spirit of that chap's muredered wife. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.45.242 |
Erm...Stephen,stop it,NOW! Forgotten masterpiece? What exactly do you know? Folks,if,unlike me,you're a sadomasochistic misogynist try 'The Clinic' by the White person in Pan 14. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.45.242 |
Oh,Christ...turn it in! | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.153.249.0 |
Who is ALEXICON? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.148.31.147 |
John Wain, A Visit at Tea-time. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.148.31.147 |
Good Lord - just Googled it and it seems it came out in Argosy magazine in the very month I was born. That's unbelievable. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Ray Bradbury's 'The Emissary'. The revised version that appeared in THE OCTOBER COUNTRY. Very close to 'The Monkey's Paw', of course. | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.11.186 |
Probably 'The Adventure of the Speckled Band' by Conan Doyle, for me. I read the Sherlock Holmes stories when I was very young, and there was something about that tale that fired my imagination. 'The Monkey's Paw' is a great story, though. Its influence on the genre cannot be overstated. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.63.147 |
'Who is Alexicon?' Des,rest assured I am nobody other than a benign bystander. The small rumpus above was merely a response to those mischievous scamps,Stevie Walsh and Johnny Propert,no doubt encouraged by that arch-scamp,Gary Fry to derail the thread. Now that all is calm again,a firm favourite of mine is 'The Hunter' by David Case,because the animal in it is shudderingly similar to my dog. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.63.147 |
Woops! Substitute a b for the p in Johnny-scamp's surname. Alex lol | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
"try 'The Clinic' by the White person in Pan 14." Alexicon = Alex White? No, it can't be. I do believe Johnny Mains recently discovered and announced on the Vault that Alex White was, in fact, Clarence Paget in disguise. Stephen - I'm not as familiar with later Pans - they lost their way later on IMHO. My love affair ended at about no. 11 from my recollection (I'd been buying them since no. 1). Sadly, I must have dumped them all at some time, so I've only started rediscovering them again in recent years. "The Bushmaster" does ring some kind of bell though .. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.63.147 |
Carolinec.you're another little scamp going off-topic. Please relax. The reference to 'the White person' was that I couldn't immediately remember the forename - and,of course,I see now why you became scampish! I referred to 'The Clinic' because of its distasteful sadomasochism - which may well appeal to some members of this board. If Mr. Mains says Clarence Paget wrote it,he must be having a laugh.If Paget penned that,I'll publically eat my laptop. Anyway,it's all old-hat historical smoke-and-mirrors now. What we need to concentrate on is the PRESENT,surely? So,if I may guide you gently back on-thread...You mentioned 'The Monkey's Paw' and 'The Vertical Ladder'. Is there any particular story written within,say,the past 4 years that reaffirms your faith in the OK horror genre? | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.63.147 |
OK horror genre? Yes, I suppose it is. But what I meant was 'UK horror genre' | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.18.104 |
Have you been drinking Alexicon lol. Caroline, like 'Doctor Who' I stuck with the Pan series through the later ropey years mainly out of loyalty and the genuinely brilliant stories that still cropped up till the very end. I kept all 30 books (as well as all the Fontana Ghost & Horror collections) and rereading them has been great this last year or two. Single best Pan story so far (for me) is 'The Island Of Regrets' by Elizabeth Walter in The 7th. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.63.147 |
Hi Stephen! Drinking? Absolutely not - which is why I've been so incoherent.I'm about to start imbibing in the next few minutes though,for I do need clarity of thought when I'm working. Now,goodnight,lol - and back to topic,you scamp... | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Alex. I so want to play a guessing game as to who you are but you wouldn't want that would you? | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Ha. I think I know - but nevermind. Welcome to the board :>) Sorry - back on topic. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.163.6.13 |
'A Sound of Thunder' by Ray Bradbury, and also Arthur C. Clarke's short story 'The Nine Billion Names of God'. These two stories made a huge impression on me very early on, maybe I was ten or eleven years old. Around the same time I fished a non-ficion book out of my parent's library about a serial killer from Houston, Texas, and then it was lots of horror from then on. Clive Barker's 'In The Hills the Cities' comes to mind as a major short story for me when I was about thirteen or fourteen. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.252.174 |
Ha. I think I know - but nevermind. Waitaminnit... is Alex... THE one and only Mr. Clive Barker?! Sworn enemy of Allison Bird?! You know, another short story that has a special meaning to me, is the one I gave that time to the cops when they found that chopped-up body of that prostitute in my basement.... (might as well get all my stupid-ass shit out in one post, rather than linger on with it) | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Nooooooooooooo! It perhaps is another writer but the person you are thinking about is CHRIS not Clive. We've mentioned that before :>) | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
If I had to pick a Bradbury story, it would be "Skeleton". I simply love Dr Munigant. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Lord P, I've enjoyed all Conrad Hill's stories to date. Definitely one of the more memorable mid-period Pan authors. It's a hard trick to be scary and laugh-out-loud funny in the same story but he manages it. I especially love the sequence when the Bushmaster escapes on the train and starts "interfering" with the other passengers while in 'Wally' the image of that naked obese monster puttering along on a scooter is both ridiculous and truly the stuff of nightmares. There was something brazenly anarchic and visceral about the Pan series at its best that makes them unique in horror fiction and still worthwhile I believe. As for Ray Bradbury... my fav story keeps changing but currently would be 'The Smiling People' (1946). | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Actually, I think it was the Emisasary that got me into proper horror stories, so I'll change my vote on the Bradbury. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
The October Game for me...my first exposure to Bradbury and as a young reader, that last line was like a punch in the guts. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Then some idiot turned on the fridge. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.165.182 |
Out of all Bradbury's stuff, 'The Scythe' is probably still my favourite. Although 'The Next In Line' is a classic too. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Ray Bradbury (novel though)- From the Dust Returned, is a favourite of mine. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I didn't think that one held together as a novel. I love the separate short stories but when put together you realise they contradict each other - e.g. Cecy had apparently never been inside a human couple making love nearly half way though the book even though she's been in at least 4 in the preceding stories - I was really disappointed. Green Shadows works well as a novel but still feels bitty. The only short story novel he wrote that I feel truly works as a novel is Dandelion Wine. Of his formal novels, I think either Death is a Lonely Business or A graveyard for Lunatics has to take the prize. (I have a first ed of GFL signed by Ray harryhausen who is of course the basis for the Roy Holdstrom character in the book) | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray. This book is the reason why my writing is sometimes elegant but, more often, old-fashioned and laughably melodramatic. Still, it's a marvellous novel, written by a man who treasured the beauty of words. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
What about 'Something Wicked This Way Comes'...?! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
If we're talking novels: Oscar Wilde's De Profundis. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
@ SW a very close equal third with Fahrenheit 451 | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
And one for Caroline. I know she like this. Herman Hesse/Steppenwolf. I think it taught me to strive for balance. Perhaps to not to be too hard on myself sometimes and also to take a few more risks and have some fun. I read that he thought that is was misunderstood by many people and I've interpreted as it a message of hope rather than despair. There will be other readings of it though. Black listed by the nazis and celebrated in the '60's by some in America. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
My favourite Bradbury novels are the magnificent FAHRENHEIT 541 and the flawed but still excellent DEATH IS A LONELY BUSINESS. I find SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES rather sententious and cloying despite some fine passages. If Bradbury had written it ten years earlier it would have been a masterpiece, but he was deep in his 'positive' phase and it took him another two decades to rediscover bleakness. Fans of SWTWC often descibe it as 'enchanting', but great horror fiction isn't about enchantment: it's about disenchantment. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
Fahrenheit 451, definitely. The conversation between Captain Beatty and the 'ill' Montag about the necessity of their profession alone is worth the price of admission. Still very fond of Dandelion Wine and The Martian Chronicles (which properly speaking isn't really a novel), though. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
STEPPENWOLF is very strong, though I prefer Hesse's DEMIAN – an account of teenage friendship that had a major impact on me in my own teens. If any book changed my life... Scary to recall how the year I read STEPPENWOLF, I read over 100 other books and wrote more than a dozen short stories (as well as fifty or so poems). I was 19. Where did that energy go? Another book from that phase of my reading I remember as having affected me strongly was MARS by Fritz Zorn, a pseudonymous memoir whose author was near death when he wrote it. It's about the pointlessness of emotional repression. Existentialist literature is brilliant generally. Albert Camus' THE PLAGUE and his story collection EXILE AND THE KINGDOM are tremendous, controlled, passionate explorations of the human struggle against fear and oppression. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
How do you all do that thing where you write in italics? I can't make it work on my access to this forum. | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
I only know of Steppenwolf et al through Colin Wilson's brilliant The Occult, and The Outsider, absolute favourites of mine that led me to other great writers and their works. Highly recommended. | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
It might be your browser, Joel. I can't 'do' italics, post images etc at Shocklines unless I'm using Internet Explorer (I normally use the Google Chrome browser). If you can't access the italics button here, just enclose the word(s) you want to italicise within the following two sets of brackets: i/{ text goes here text ends here } Obviously, you'd need to position your chosen text within the two sets of brackets (right next to them, without the spacing I've employed) unlike in my example above. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
"And one for Caroline. I know she like this. Herman Hesse/Steppenwolf. " Ah, yes, thanks for reminding me of this one, Ally. But in fact it was this one I preferred too: ".. though I prefer Hesse's DEMIAN – an account of teenage friendship that had a major impact on me in my own teens. If any book changed my life..." Yes, that one had a great effect on me too. And if we're talking novels which had a great impact/mean a lot to us, the Gormenghast trilogy did it for me. As did Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass. And I guess the first "horror" I ever read was a superb old book of Grimm's Fairy Tales (beautifully illustrated) which my dad still has in his bookcase (from the 50s or earlier I think - it was my sister's before me). | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
Put the cursor right in front of whatever it is you're going to highlight. Click once on the grey button with i on it. Next, position cursor behind whatever you're going to highlight. Then press the aforementioned button again. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Fans of SWTWC often descibe it as 'enchanting', but great horror fiction isn't about enchantment: it's about disenchantment. So are you saying it's impossible to have an upbeat horror tale i.e. one that is genuinely scary but ultimately uplifting? I think it is possible for great horror fiction to end on a positive note. Quite a few of Ramsey Campbell's novels achieve this. For example 'The Influence' and 'Obsession' are two of my favourites of his that also left me with a feeling of almost spiritual enlightenment at the end. I would also mention the novel of 'The Exorcist' as belonging to this category. As much as I love bleakness in horror I also think if all horror stories ended bleakly the genre would not have survived as long as it has. It is that very feeling of "how will this one end" and of rooting for the protagonists with a chance of evil being defeated (but not every time) that always has me coming back for more. 'Something Wicked This Way Comes' treads the boundary between creepy supernatural horror and (yes) enchanting fantasy brilliantly imo. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I class SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES more as a fantasy than a horror novel. I love it, but it doesn't press my horror buttons. I'm actually a big fan of THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.255.128 |
The formula is easy, and it's there I'd say for the vast majority of works. What's expected is: Horror novels - must end positively Horror short-stories - must end negatively | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
That might be your formula, Craig, but it isn't mine. There is no formula for good horror fiction - that's what makes it good. Why must you try to reduce everything to formulae and templates? It's very depressing. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
By 'bleak' I don't mean necessarily that the outcome is the worst possible. The ending of Stephen King's The Dark Half is pretty bleak even though the 'evil' is defeated. I find the ending of The Influence melancholic and lonely, not upbeat at all. However, if you take a sense of hope from it, that's all to the good. I don't take positive messages from much and when I do I don't believe them. Cheers for the italic guidelines, folks. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
You've tempted me to do a statistical analysis of all the horror novels/short stories I've read Craig! But there's another category and it's my fav - the ambiguous ending e.g. 'The Shadow Over Innsmouth' again... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.1.20 |
There is no formula for good horror fiction - that's what makes it good. Why must you try to reduce everything to formulae and templates? It's very depressing. There's gotta be SOME formula or other for horror fiction, Zed... or I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Ramsey Campbell and Danielle Steele. Stephen: clearly I mean generally. "2 Girls 1 Cup," I hope it's safe to say, is not part of what's "general." | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.1.20 |
Here's a good counter-example in both categories to my formula: Novel: PET SEMATARY Short-story: "The Monkey's Paw" But I just mean, overall, this is just what I've found.... Joel's "bleak" is a better term, because it can go either way, be applied to positive/negative endings... the ending to "The Monkey's Paw" I find very bleak.... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Actually, just thinking about it, the best horror fiction is neither bleak nor upbeat but ambiguous or enigmatic and open to whatever interpretation the reader brings to it. 'The Influence' seems to state a belief in some form of afterlife which I personally find an uplifting idea but others might consider their worst nightmare come true. What is more comforting? Being "forced" to go on forever OR a carefree slipping away into eternal darkness... yikes, now I've spooked myself!! | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Good article by Christopher Fowler on the writing of short stories here: http://theshortreview.blogspot.com/ CF on Du Maurier's Don't Look Now: 'Of course, a plot is a skeleton; it is hidden under the skin. It needs characters and scenario to function. The perfect plot is one which emerges from the other two factors. "Don’t look now," says John to his wife, "but there are a couple of old girls two tables away who are trying to hypnotise me." John and Laura have lost a child, and are in Venice. John has a secret ability he has failed to recognize. The two old girls will ignite a terrible tragedy...' | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Jesus, I wish I could write something as good as Don't Look Now...the story has you in the palm of its hand from the very start. And the twist - the late Laura has returned from the dead, not simply to console her grief-stricken parents but to warn her father of impending danger - is brilliant. What a fantastic writer Daphne du Maurier was... | ||
| Chris_morris (Chris_morris) Username: Chris_morris Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 12.165.240.116 |
Steve, Fowler's article is very good indeed. Clearly this man knows what he's talking about. He even mentions one of my favorite collections -- Black Water. Thanks for posting the link. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Emotion not being a part of horror writing/prose ........that is what horror writing is all about for me. | ||
| Chris_morris (Chris_morris) Username: Chris_morris Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 12.165.240.116 |
Of course stories are meant to be about emotion. However, in my view emotion is best conveyed coyly, almost as subtext. Fowler is complaining about stories with little "story," per se, and an overabundance of description of emotions. I agree that this makes for poor writing. The emotional impact of a character's mother's death, for instance, need not be described in detail -- when told of the mother's death, readers will assume the character will endure a certain degree of emotional turmoil. In such events, careful allusions to the character's emotional state would suffice, I think. Detailed descriptions, then, would only be necessary when the character's emotional reaction goes against expectations. Of course, others may disagree. Certainly there are plenty of stories out there with an abundance of description of characters' emotional states. I just happen to agree with Fowler. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
Certainly there are plenty of stories out there with an abundance of description of characters' emotional states. Lovecraft's "The Thing on the Doorstep" is a case in point. This is the very first tale by HPL I read - age ten or thereabouts - and I remember being overwhelmed by a sense of suffocating oppression which stayed with me for days. Schoolmates would come to me and ask what the trouble was, and of course I couldn't tell them about this story I'd just read. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.170.85 |
Indeed... and people say that Lovecraft had no ability to characterise! He didn't always do it well, but from time to time he did it very well indeed. Always when talking about a family or a relationship falling apart. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.0.244 |
Ally,Craig,for gawd's sake - of course I'm not 'Clive',The Great Ogre.Had it been the case,you would've had a warning email from Gary long before now.It's simple really;I'm just an ex-Pan hacker who thinks his previous work is not relevant to this board at this time. What might,just might, be relevant is Stephen Walsh's post way up this thread. He kind of nailed something about the Pan series. Distilling his words a little,he mentioned the 'brazenly anarchic and visceral nature' of the works in some of the books. This was entirely due to the editor,who actively encouraged his writers to go off-the-wall,go mad;the more extreme the better. "Don't worry about it - stick a pseudonym on it. You want a pseudonym? Right,try this." In that kind of atmosphere,one could go completely over the top and submit work which he personally loved,but had to regretfully reject with the words: "This will never get past the suits you know". So, in Herbert van Thal you had an editor who was constantly pushing you out of your perceived comfort zone and encouraging you to write in variety of different 'voices'. Sometimes it failed;but sometimes it worked. And where it worked,you find the memorable stories. I'd dearly love to know if there are any editors today who gleefully encourage their writers to go off their chumps. It might need a separate thread interrogatively titled: 'Is Your Editor Cramping Your Style?' And Craig and Ally...I ain't your enemy - far from it. lol | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
I've never said that you are Clive - Alexicon. I was just putting Craig right on the initials CB doesn't mean Clive Barker. I know you aren't my enemy from previous posts - and I don't understand why you'd think that :>) | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.31.72 |
... and encouraging you to write in variety of different 'voices'. Sometimes it failed;but sometimes it worked. ===================== Nemonymous? | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.18.104 |
Alexicon, so does that mean you are Alex White? Responsible for 'Never Talk To Strangers', 'The Clinic' & 'On The Box'?!?! They are three of the most extreme and harrowing stories in the Pan series I've read so far!! We're talking grand guignol with knobs on here lol. Fair play to you man... if it is you. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>... and encouraging you to write in variety of different 'voices'. ===================== Nemonymous? :-)<< I was just about to say that, Des, but you beat me to it. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Alexicon, so does that mean you are Alex White? << No, Stephen, s/he has already said s/he isn't when I suggested that - somewhere up this thread I think. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.16.77.103 |
I was just joking on myself from another thread with the CB = Clive Barker = Ally's Arch-nemesis joke. I guess it didn't get quite the reaction I expected... or, perhaps... Alexicon protests too much?...  ... (and so does Ally)... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
I'm just an ex-Pan hacker You've made me very curious, Alexicon. Why not divulge your true identity or at least hint at the yarns you penned for the Pan Book of Horror Stories series? | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.0.244 |
Look,you kindred spirits,I joined this board not to bask in past,personal, burnt-out glory. I joined because I'm genuinely appalled by what's happened to the genre that was once a joyous,kick-ass trip to ride. The gloom around now is pressing down,Poe-like in its intensity. I've read most of you guys on this board,including probably,those names I don't immediately recognise: Craig,for instance...is that Craig Herbertson or someone else? Anyway,the thing that staggers me is the fact that you all have writing skills way above those of the mid-series Pan hackers and yet the work is (according to the posts I've read on other threads here)tough to sell. The ultimate pisser must surely be to put your material on line for free,or 'donate' it to someone simply to get it into print.That's never right,and in my eyes,a big no-no. Yes,appreciate that current trends - the decline in reading,competition from other media,credit crisis,mainstream publishers cowed by greedy,blinkered,corporate number-crunchers - militate against you,but the talent should not go to waste and be unrewarded. Yet I can't shake the feeling...that it's somehow possible to stage a revival. And it's tied up with my previous post about editors perhaps no longer having that gloriously reckless, anything-goes outlook of van Thal towards their writers. Hence the question posed: Is Your Editor Cramping Your Style? Extend it a little: Is Your Editor and/or Your Publisher Cramping Your Style? I dunno. You might say it's easy for me to pontificate because I had my ghosting skills to fall back on when the horror scene went virtually tits-up in the mid-to-late nineties. There was a few bob to be earned in other fields. But here's the clincher: those skills were acquired only by association with an outstanding editor. This identity issue is truly no big deal.You all know that there's a book coming out before the WHC in Brighton. I'll not name it cos you've heard the distant drumming already starting. If you haven't,then there's something wrong with your audiovisual inputs. What I will say is that said book contains a contribution from me,and I'd be fascinated to hear from you young turks whether I can still do horror the way I used to. If it's shit just tell me - I'm armour-plated. Meanwhile,sincere apologies to Steve Jensen for totally fucking up his thread. lol to you all - and let's start kicking ass } | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
I've worked out who you are (I think) but I'll respect your wanting to be known by another name on the board :>) | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.0.244 |
Allybird - you're a dreamboat. Thanks. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
I most definately know about the book and editor. And I still have an insomnia...:>( | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
'an insomnia' - I think I'll just go to bed now :>) | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.247.121 |
I am, alas, a mere reader of horror, a fan, Alexicon... and most of my reading was done long ago, and I find I do woefully little of it now... thought I want to do more, so very much... I too had the bug to get horror prose published back in the day, and did, in a few scant places... but I too don't reveal those or want them discussed, because then I'd be deemed worthy of being tossed off here... er, that is to say, not the British-ish "tossed off," the American tossed off.... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.247.121 |
Alexicon, I choose to think you are really Ambrose Bierce. And Ally, I think you are really J.K. Potter. And Mr. Campbell, I think you are really Ramsey Aickman. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.247.121 |
"J.K. Potter"? - WTF?!?! I meant J.K. Rowling! ... or did I?... | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.31.72 |
The ultimate pisser must surely be to put your material on line for free,or 'donate' it to someone simply to get it into print.That's never right,and in my eyes,a big no-no. =========== I've been building up 'The Weirdmonger Wheel' for five years now and very proud of it (as I am now of my readings aloud to supplement it). Yours, DFL (editor of Nemonymous and perpetrator of real-time reviewing) PS: I still don' know who Alexicon is. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
'Of course stories are meant to be about emotion. However, in my view emotion is best conveyed coyly, almost as subtext. Fowler is complaining about stories with little "story," per se, and an overabundance of description of emotions. I agree that this makes for poor writing. The emotional impact of a character's mother's death, for instance, need not be described in detail -- when told of the mother's death, readers will assume the character will endure a certain degree of emotional turmoil. In such events, careful allusions to the character's emotional state would suffice, I think. Detailed descriptions, then, would only be necessary when the character's emotional reaction goes against expectations.' Do you have a particular story in mind - Chris? | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Could I have some more clues to Alexicon's identity please? | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Professional writer, recurrent contributor to the PBHS, author of story in forthcoming anthology (presumably the PBHS tribute anthology). That's all we know. Alex Hamilton? | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I've read four Alex Hamilton stories if it is him!! 'The Attic Express' is a little classic - and personal favourite - from the very early years (1962) and the other three were consistently strong; 'The Words Of The Dumb', 'Not Enough Poison' (a killer ants story bettered only by Carl Stephenson's 'Leiningen Versus the Ants') & 'The Image Of The Damned'. I bet it isn't him though... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Poor Alex seems to have joined this board at the wrong time. With the rumpus going on about Ally's award at the time, folks have got a little suspicious of someone joining at that point and not revealing their identity. Bad timing, Alex, I reckon! But the fact is, s/he has every right to remain anonymous on the board, and Gary has obviously OK'd his/her membership. So, I reckon we should let it rest at that and just welcome Alex, who is clearly a kindred spirit. By the way, I double-checked on the Vault board and I now think that Johnny was only joking when he reckoned that one of the Alex White stories was written by Clarence Padget - so sorry for the wrong info there. His book - which, as a Pan fan I'm really looking forward to - should reveal all. As for your comments, Alex, about writers, editors and what writers should expect, maybe what you say is true if you're talking about writers who strive to be professional ones, but not everyone does. Some just want to write for the fun of it, or feel the NEED to write, or what ever. Any some of us here (me included) are just readers rather than writers anyway. I know I've left it way too late to ever try to make money out of writing! | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Alexicon, 'So,Allybird...it's a kind of a preliminary,negative promotion for his book?' If so - for which of the two books is this about though. | ||
| Chris_morris (Chris_morris) Username: Chris_morris Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 12.165.240.116 |
>> Do you have a particular story in mind - Chris? No, not at all. I invented those specifics to illustrate my point. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.119.0 |
Joel...Is that the ultimate Joel - he of a 'Cry for Help' and other fine work? No,Joel,always semi-professional,the writing being supplemented by sensible things: demolition plant operator,coastal diesel mechanic,you know,the mundane stuff many writers have to resort to in order to feed the family properly. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.119.0 |
Allybird. I detect scampism in your voice... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I hope it doesn't seem that I'm prying into Alexicon's secret identity!! I'm seriously excited about talking to an ex-Pan writer and my enthusiasm needs to know. If anyone wants to email me who he/she is I'm at swalsh123@hotmail.com - and I'd like to think I've been on here long enough for my discretion to be relied upon. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Not scampism - just confusion. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.119.0 |
Dead right,Carolinec. I'm the whipping boy for He Who Hath Escaped Unscathed. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
You really are a scamp Ally!! But I still don't know... | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
Well, I've kept it a secret from you all for long enough; I'm the lovechild of Ann Radcliffe and Grover from Sesame Street. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
There are so many different conversations going on on this thread now, my head is spinning!  | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Were you an early, mid or late period Pan author Alexicon??? Also did you write for any of the Fontana collections at all? Terry Tapp, Roger F. Dunkley, Roger Malisson... hey, you're not David Case?!?! Sorry for being pushy but this feels like trying to guess the next guest on 'This Is Your Life' for me! At the same time I respect your right to privacy... you're not Norman P. Kaufman are you?! | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.119.0 |
Stephen,Stephen...You really are being Mega-Scamp. You already know: you blew it for me way up this thread. Why won't anybody engage in sensible discourse about the CURRENT state of affairs? And Steve Jensen..I'd already heard a whisper about your predicament. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I'm actually Salman Rushdie posting under a pseudonym but I'd appreciate it if you all kept it under your aaaaaaaarrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!! | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I think I know now... sort of. Okay, back to sensible discourse. Who do you, Alexicon, consider the greatest horror author who is still active in the field and their finest work that means the most to you? This thread was about which short story (from any era) has the greatest meaning for each person here. You've stated the opinion that current horror writing is streets ahead of the material from your own heyday so I'm genuinely curious to know who you currently look up to? | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.119.0 |
Craig - for Christ's sake DO the writing,don't let it slide. And do it YOUR way - not the way that you think is required. No Plot? Who cares - if it rocks for you then there's a chance it'll rock for the odd rogue editor out there. Carolinec. Be positive - it's never too late to write. Oh,and on the subject of Johnny Mains...Love him,or loathe him (and I love him),He's trying,in a tentative way,to edge the horror show back into the mainstream. There may be the makings of a new HvT there. Herbert van Mains. Yerss - it has a certain ring to it... | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.119.0 |
And there's Salman gregston scamping in from left-field...Hi Web,how are you? A little tired and and emotional like me? Stephen W. To answer you is difficult as regards who I look up to now in the story field. There are so many and I like them each for different reasons. Unfair to pick one:If I mention Joel,then I have to mention John L.P. Then I have to mention Gary F...and so on. You could spend days talking about that. The answer to the other part of the question may seem pretty mundane and unimaginative. But it's Stephen King and the book is the 'The Shining'. It seriously spooked my partner at the time of publication,and I agreed. The scene with the topiary was,ahem...well, creepy. One more personal piece of trivia. The non-horror book which burrowed deep into my psyche (and still does!) was the truly magnificent 'Catch 22' by Joseph Heller. As a very young guy,I read it and it formed a kind of bridge between all the Victorian and Edwardian horror giants I'd read in the house as a kiddie, and that lovable lunatic editor waiting on the other side. Oops! Must go. The wolverine's just blown up the lawnmower. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
James Wade? | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.18.104 |
'The Shining' is without doubt King's scariest novel and his best horror (freaked me out at the time too in a way none of his books since have come close to) but for me his masterpiece is still 'The Stand'. While 'The Mist' is my fav short work of his. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Carolinec. Be positive - it's never too late to write.<< I'm not being negative, Alex, just realistic. Since I was a teen, I had dreams of being a published pro horror writer. It was only when I realised that wasn't going to happen, and I started writing just for fun, that I actually got things published! Nowadays, it's all for enjoyment purposes only as far as I'm concerned. I write when I feel like it, and don't bother when I don't. I think I'd hate to feel I HAD to write (eg. to fulfil a contract or what ever). And as to your question about whether editors nowadays let writers write (or write what they want to write), I think it's the small press editors/publishers who do that, rather than the mainstream publishers. Nowadays, if you're in the mainstream you have to write to a formula. The really exciting stuff seems to take place in the small presses, where writers can really let themselves go. The horror "market" was a different beast when the Pans were going. You could walk into any WH Smiths, Woolies (RIP), or independent bookshop (and there were many of those) and find shelves full of horror. So there was a bigger market and editors/publishers could take a few risks. Nowadays, I think the only risk-taking in terms of trying something different is going on in the small presses. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.225.166 |
Got it now, Alex. Glad you're here. How did you feel about the Clarence Paget PBOH volumes? I felt whatever had been offbeat and satirical in the mid-period van Thal books had become a kind of humourless, mean catalogue by Paget's time – as Ramsey has said, it was pornography without sex, punishing any hint of sexuality with torture and mutilation. I've never got how people say they don't like 'sex and violence' in books or films as if they were the same thing. To me, if you like sex you don't like violence and vice versa. That's as true of reading or watching it as it is of doing it. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.31.72 |
Seems a bit off-putting that some of us know who someone is, and others (like me) don't. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.231.167 |
Des, just see Alex's comment above, then read back to earlier in this thread, and you'll understand. No inside knowledge: just reading between the lines. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.68.249 |
Joel,good morning to you. I obviously don't have a public viewpoint on the final Paget years of PBOH,because I'll be soon nestling alongside some of the authors involved in those volumes. Thus,I'm neutral. Brilliantly,Joel,you've identified what was going on in the TEENAGE years: satire,black jokes,and the sex'n'violence parodies. Are you astute,or what! Take the 3 Alex White pieces during those years: you,can see it was someone having a laugh.Who it was,I've no idea. I don't want to pre-empt the forthcoming book,neither do I want to promote it here,but there does seem to be an undying fascination with the PBOH. I gather there has been research done into the different people behind the Alex White persona so I,and many other interested readers will hopefully learn something. I'm almost certain than Ramsey's distaste for the PBOH started well before the Paget years. I think he liked the first few volumes but after that,found them increasingly merit-less and disgusting. I can only pay Des one of the highest compliments possible.And I mean this. He reminds me of my Dad.When chaos,mishief and breakages were going on all over the house,he was always the last to know.And when he did find out eventually,the culprits were long gone. lol,Des. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.233.98 |
Alex, in the interests of honesty I have to admit there was quite a lot in the van Thal volumes after about volume 7 that I didn't think much of. But there was talent and creativity as well. It was a mixed experience. I remember the David Case stories (mostly reprints I believe) with particular fondness. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.31.72 |
I was fast on the case recently on VoE, however. dad | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.10.20.129 |
I liked the cover for the 30th PBoH- the so called Lawnmower Man cover. It also had a great story called 'Vivisectionists'- which was the stand-out story I thought- With all the animals turning on the very doctors that been using them for various experiments. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Or to be more precise, Alex, what I mean is that the kind of stories we're talking about were not in the majority. If they had been, they wouldn't have stood out. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Alexicon, 'Catch 22' fits in perfectly with your black sense of humour. A favourite novel (and film) of mine too that more than deserves its reputation - nightmarish and very funny. Have you also read the sequel 'Closing Time'? Although much less well known it may actually be the superior work telling of Yossarian's morbid disenfranchisement with modern day society. Is this what we fought and died for kind of thing... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Joel, in a masochistic kind of way the variable quality of the later Pans was actually part of their appeal. The longer stories and novellas almost always tended to be very strong while with the shorter stories there was always the increasing risk of an absolute stinker but they flew by so fast you never had to wait long for that hidden nugget of pure gold. Some of the stories were so grotesquely repulsive in their attention to the finer details of torture and mutilation one couldn't possibly take them seriously. In that respect they were the literary equivalent of video nasties - good for a shake of the head at their sheer twisted imagination or deeply offensive and degrading according to taste. No prizes for guessing which camp I'm in... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
I liked the cover for the 30th PBoH I'm very fond of the cover (depicting Sir Gore from "It Came to Dinner") for the 14th PBOHS. I remember sitting on the train in front of an elderly lady who was looking kind of askance at the cover, and then at me. Some great stories in that one. "The Man and the Boy" to me transcends the mere horror elements of the tale. I think it's great literature, full stop. "The Clinic" is almost laughably cruel, in the "Fried Man" vein. Perhaps they were written by the same author. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Des - I still haven't a clue who Alexicon is either, so you're not the only one! You know, with all this discussion of PBoH, this board is beginning to echo the Vault of Evil ... | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.10.20.129 |
But they don't have 25mm minatures | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Craig's got a 25mm minature... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Craig's got a 25mm minature...<< But you told me on another thread that you'd never met Craig, Weber. I just KNEW you two were closer than you pretend to be.  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
I've never met him. As mentioned on another thread, his mum told me | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Ah, I'd forgotten! | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
She's a very accommodating woman is Craig's mum... I won't go any further with that statement for fear of bringing the board into disrepute. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.239.15 |
Weber has confused my mum for one of the nurses that cares for him, in "the place where Weber is kept." She feeds him his mashed carrots from one of those little rubber spoons, and whatever it is each day he's in a lather about on his high-chair, she nods her head mechanically, and says, "Yes, dear, whatever you say, dear...." | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.76.192 |
This is really frustrating... I'm off on a month's hols later today - into the sun with the wolverine. And where I'm going,there's no bloody internet access.Anyway,we should be talking to,and laughing and drinking with, each other face-to-face.Now,remembering some of my posts way up there...The 'Fifth Black Book of Horror' is now out. Obviously I'm going to buy it,but in my New Ideal World,I'd want to buy it at Heathrow and take it on the plane and devour all of it at once. What a way to deal with a long-haul flight: bloody magic! So,Im a dreamer;nothing wrong with that is there? But you surely must see where I'm coming from. Joel: without pre-empting anything,the series had 3 distinct phases,and you're right re quality. Some of the stories were mere fillers,designed to put some padding around the effective pieces in the same volume. You know,'journeyman' writing: it ain't high art,but it did set you up for other things when times were lean. And yes,David Case. Reprints,sure,but almost every one with that fundamental accessibility. 'The Hunter'. Who,among you,could dislike that? Des: I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Is this a smokescreen enabling you to wriggle out of paying me my pocket-money? Karim: the covers were mighty variable,but #30 did have a certain open simplicity to it. Mind,if a horror anthology came wrapped in used toilet paper,I'd still buy it,I'm afraid. Stephen: 'Catch 22'...Wonderful madness! The vision of the Commanding Officer escaping from his office window each time his men wanted to speak with him about important airbase issues...Godalmighty,it cracks me up. And,no,I haven't read 'Closing Time' Thanks,I'll seek it out. I've read 'God's Children',was it? But I thought it a bit of a dud. I assumed that Heller was a man who wrote just a one-off classic which somehow he couldn't top. Concerning PBOH torture and mutilation: a nice example of that is in the work of Al Temperley. A bloody good writer - and he's deservedly gone on to greater things. But I had the impression that he wasn't having fun with his work...he kind of MEANT it. Compare that work to Harry Turner's. Harry had it bang to rights: the insiduous dark humour - he knew what it was all about. Hubert - why,hello to you again: Speaking personally,#14 was the ace. It had the perfect balance. And it's quite apparent that you're on a fishing expedition with your last 2 sentences. You're another of these high-octane scamps I need to get thoroughly intoxicated with one day. By the way,guys,the drinks will be on me. Carolinec: Another massive personal accolade for you - and meant most sincerely. You remind me of my Mum. You're a super lady who talks a bucketload of sense. But even though I know your observations are basically correct,I still wanna kick out and do my 'thing' anyway. It's the prepubescent syndrome,or something. Oh,and don't forget to remind Dad,Des,about my pocket money... With luck,by the time I get back,this thread will be thankfully moribund. It's all a hurricane in a lavvy pan. lol Alex | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
See you in a month! Where are you going? | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.76.192 |
Ally...very quickly - deep Pacific. I shall miss you. Good luck with sales. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Alexicon lives in a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine, a yellow submarine etc | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
me bored | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
It's because Alex has gone isn't it. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
No it's coz my job is boring and shit and tedious and crap and rubbish and I hate it | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Apart from that it's ok though | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Joseph Heller wrote a book about that very assumption Alexicon... the wryly poignant 'Portrait Of An Artist As An Old Man'. He's one of the greatest writers America ever produced and I believe time will judge his post-'Catch 22' works very well indeed. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.222.21 |
Okay - been there done that Weber. I know - it's crap. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Heller said not long before his death: "People say that I haven't written anything since as good as CATCH-22. I don't mind. Neither has anyone else." | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.5.88 |
I've been meaning to read Heller for a long time, due mainly to one fellow who always highly recommended him: Kurt Vonnegut. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.5.88 |
No it's coz my job is boring and shit and tedious and crap and rubbish and I hate it So take off that giant baby diaper and throw away the giant rattle and stop feeding your paraphilic infantilism by remaining in that thankless underground film industry, Weber.... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
Craig, Vonnegut & Heller were two of the sanest voices coming out of America for over four decades. They controlled their anger at the state of the nation to deliver razor sharp satire of profound wit and poignancy. I love and miss both men's wisdom enormously and have read most of their works. Another fav author in the same field that you might enjoy is Robert Anton Wilson. His Illuminatus series is one of the great masterpieces of science fiction and late 20th Century satire at its most fearless. Kind of a literary equivalent to Frank Zappa. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.251.12 |
I've read every scrap Vonnegut wrote, Stephen, I'm a gigantic fan. The only book I've not read yet, is this last posthumous one... which sits on my shelf... I'm reluctant to read it, because then there will be nought new left of Kurt for me to experience in this world....  Funny about RAW: I have a good friend who's been telling me for years to read him. So, I've collected all the RAW books I can find, including the Illuminatus series - but haven't read them yet. They look like something one must hitch up one's britches and hike up one's sleeves to dive into... and I've not had that available mental free-space yet... or maybe it's not the strength to clear a mental space.... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
When I read Vonnegut it feels like having some wise but mischievous old uncle, full of anecdotes and jokes, talking directly to me. A warm reassuring feeling but you're always trying to catch him out winking or sticking his tongue out at you. I find him the perfect antidote to cynicism or disillusionment. A fantastic writer and a giant of a human being. I've still a few to read and know exactly how you feel... | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.153.166.237 |
A short story with special significance? It's 'The Vampire of Croglin Grange' for me. First read when i was about 8 or 9. My dad had bought me a copy of 'The Monster Trap and Other True Mysteries' edited by the late great Peter Haining. I think this was the first ever horror themed book i ever owned and this story scared the bejesus out of me! I never slept well for months afterwards. I think i fell in love with horror and the macabre right there and then. Thank you Peter! Thanks Dad! So I've been collecting as many Peter Haining edited collections as i can get my mits on. The great man had such a deep knowledge of and enthusiasm for the genre. It was positively infectious. Reading his introductions before each and every story is a joy in itself. I still haven't come across a copy of 'The Monster Trap' though! | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.153.166.237 |
'The Vampire of Croglin Grange'. Ok, not so much a short story as a short urban legend. But it's the reason i've been reading horror for the past 34 years. I don't think anything has given me the same frisson of fear since. Remember, I was only 8. | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.220.33 |
Sean, I remember reading about Croglin Grange when I was a kid. The book I had (it may have been the Peter Haining one for all I know) had a fantastic illustration of a ghoulish beast crawling across the floor from an open window, as a terrified woman screamed on the bed. I had a Peter Haining book called The Vampire Terror, and it contained a story called The Zombie of Gladwish Wood. That scared the crap out of me when I was a kid. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.139.87 |
I had a similar experience with a Helen Hoke anthology in the children's section of Harborne Library when I was about ten. It included August Derleth's 'Mrs Manifold'. Four years before that, I had to be let out of the classroom during a reading of 'Beowulf' because I suspected what was going to happen and the fear was making me hysterical. Forty years later, a therapist would find this episode of much significance. | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.209.220.33 |
Those Helen Hoke anthologies were excellent, Joel. Terrors, Torments and Traumas was a particular favourite of mine. RC Cook's 'Green Fingers' had a profound effect on me. | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.153.166.237 |
'Green Fingers'. I remember it well Steve. One of my early childhood reads as well. I've been trying to track it down again without any success so far. Helen Hoke seems to be the next lead to follow then. By the way. That description you have given of the cover of your old book has given me the creeps all over again. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Isn't it strange, when you look through this thread and see what stories have most significance for us, it mostly always seems to be a story we've read as a kid which scared the cr*p out of us. For most people, that would have turned them off horror for life, but for us ... well, it turned us on to it. We must all be very odd people! | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 213.158.199.91 |
Craig - there was posthumous Vonnegut book? You're not referring to his non-fiction book in which he accuses use of the semi-colon as whorish and vainly pretentious, are you? For me the first genre story which impacted on me was E.F. Benson's 'The Room In The Tower'. I have it on audio cassette and it is not a story to be listened to in the dark of one's bedroom. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.248.99 |
Frank - ARMAGEDDON IN RETROSPECT, a posthumous collection of essays, and I think one short-story. Yes, I remember Vonnegut writing he deliberately chose to eschew any punctuation but the period and comma in his writing. He was consciously trying to reach a wide audience by his child-simple style - it's palpably evident when you go from his first novel, PLAYER PIANO, which is difficult reading, to nearly everything else by him (though PP is still a fine novel, in sum). | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
I only ever liked Slaughterhouse Five. Breakfast of Champions proved to be a very easy read indeed, I don't think it took more than half a rainy afternoon. God Bless You, Mr Rosewater didn't move me in the slightest; I'm afraid I forget what it is about. In between the Vonneguts I discovered Kosinski's The Painted Bird. Now, there's a book. Wow! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.248.99 |
GOD BLESS YOU MR. ROSEWATER is Vonnegut's most bizarre novel, an anti-novel almost, and written just before SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE; I would never, ever say read GOD BLESS... before reading his other work, because it would turn readers off to Vonnegut completely. Have you read, Hubert, either MOTHER NIGHT or SIRENS OF TITAN? These are my two favorites, and of course, CAT'S CRADLE. It's worth reading Vonnegut in order of the novels he wrote, since when you come to SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE, many characters from the previous novels make cameo appearances. Btw: The film SLAUGHTERHOUSE FIVE is a great one! A Charlie Kaufman film, long before Charlie Kaufman.... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
Craig: no, I passed up on his other books after Rosewater and Palm Sunday, another dismal offering which did absolutely nothing for me. Perhaps I was just expecting other things from books at the time. I did see the film based on S5, however, but that must be more than twenty years ago. I once saw Vonnegut on television in the course of a debate on some major controversy, possibly the war in Vietnam. His sole contribution consisted of a bit of singsong, "I wish I was in Dixie, ohay ohay" or something along those lines. An odd character. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.155.16 |
The Painted Bird was rather emotionally manipulative, I felt: not among the great works of Holocaust literature. My perception of it wasn't helped by the fact that Kosinski claimed it was autobiographical and then, when found out, admitted it wasn't – if I remember rightly, he'd spent the relevant years in America, not in Europe. Still, at least he had a real existence, which is more than can be said for J.T. Leroy. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
A pity Leroy is a fake, isn't it? The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things struck me like lightning when I first read it. I even received a short reply to the only e-mail I ever sent 'him'. I'm intrigued: who sent that reply? And then to hear that it was all a hoax . . . It rather turns those great stories into fodder. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.194.119 |
Well, it adds weight to what Des has been telling us for years: the notion that the author's 'real' personality underwrites the credibility of his or her work is badly misguided. If the work itself is credible, if it shows evidence of real-life commitment, that's all to the good. But we should never value a work according to our impression of what the author is like as a person. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
But we should never value a work according to our impression of what the author is like as a person. No, but you'll admit that this author went to great lengths to create a persona in order to deceive the reader into believing his writings have an autobiographical ring. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
To me, the fact that the stories were written by a fake makes them even more interesting - interesting enough for me to now want to read them. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.163.6.13 |
I totally agree with Des as well. One example I can think of is Peter Straub's writing on the Vietnam war in Koko for example- it is no less powerful, or insightful, because he didn't serve in Vietnam. (I'm assuming he didn't- apologies then if he did, but I believe he didn't.)It was in fact awarded the World Fantasy award- and the novel had no fantastic elements if I remember correctly. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I totally agree with Des as well. One example I can think of is Peter Straub's writing on the Vietnam war in Koko for example- it is no less powerful, or insightful, because he didn't serve in Vietnam. That's correct, but it does make it an even more impressive display of creativity. and the novel had no fantastic elements if I remember correctly That depends on how you define fantasy. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.182.226 |
Joel, I assume you've read Elie Wiesel's autobiographical novel Night? I read it just before leaving Germany, as a teenager. I'd just visited Belsen so it left quite an impression. Frank, 'The Room in the Tower' was the first E.F. Benson story I ever read, and I still find it one of the most dread-inducing of stories. I listened to it on audio cassette too - I think it was read by Michael Hordern, but I could be wrong, as it was years ago (early 80s?). It's a great story. Other Benson favourites of mine are 'The Face' and 'How Fear Departed From the Long Gallery'. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.163.6.13 |
Zed: 'That's correct, but it does make it an even more impressive display of creativity.' ____ Indeed! __________ 'That depends on how you define fantasy.' Yes Zed, meaning elements of the supernatural/fantastic. :-) | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
'Green Fingers' by R.C. Cook made its first appearance in 'The 3rd Fontana Book Of Great Horror Stories' (1968). Another neglected gem that is both outlandishly funny and deeply unsettling. The story unfolds with the absurd logic of a bad dream. Hubert, Kurt Vonnegut is one of those authors you either get or you don't get. Was he just a babbling eccentric with nothing coherent to say or one of the most insightful and witty commentators on modern America we have seen? Craig is right, his books make more sense read chronologically when the pattern and brilliance of his conceptual continuity (as Zappa called it) becomes apparent. His "voice" was unique and his books are uniquely entertaining. The film of 'Slaughterhouse Five' (1972) is one of the best and most underrated sci-fi movies of its era in my opinion - one that improves with every viewing. George Roy Hill never directed anything finer. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
Of course, but Straub didn't concoct any elaborate spoof about 'his years in Vietnam'. We know it is fiction and yes, if he never was there during the war or after, it's quite an accomplishment. Conversely, the people behind the JT Leroy character went so far as to organise television appearances by this 'author'. That Leroy looked feminine was a bonus given his past and almost too good to be true - but eventually it turned out a disguised girl (blonde wig and very big sunglasses) was behind it all. This character openly stated that the stories in the book were based on solid fact. If that isn't deception, what is? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
But isn't all fiction decetion? using lies to search for the truth. The whole Leroy thing makes me want to read the books, I'm afraid. It's fascinating. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.15 |
Btw The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things was turned into a film by Asia Argento which I haven't seen. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
Wow!! Just read two corkers in a row to start the 17th Pan Horror book. The novella length tale 'The Remains Of Reindeer' by Monica Lee is the most bizarre dissection of the necrophiliac impulse I've encountered since Lovecraft's 'The Loved Dead'. Extremely well written and utterly insane. While the long story 'The Hypnotist' by Harry E. Turner is a grand guignol epic involving an over-eager journalist who imposes himself on the reclusive showman of the title seeking tabloid scandal and instead uncovers a secret clinic of masochistic horror and perversion straight out of De Sade. Both stories show the Pan brand of in-your-face blackly hilarious horror comedy at its most extreme and, in my opinion, most inspired. The League Of Gentlemen would be proud... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.226.61 |
The novella length tale 'The Remains Of Reindeer' by Monica Lee is the most bizarre dissection of the necrophiliac impulse I've encountered since Lovecraft's 'The Loved Dead'. Extremely well written and utterly insane. Plus one of the characters is actually called Hubert. Can't go wrong with a name like that Wait until you get to "The Abscess", Stephen. Now there's a corker . . . | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
I've just read Robert Aickman's The Same Dog. What a strange, haunting story...so strange that I'm only half-convinced by the (very reasonable) theory that 'it's all about sex'. RCMB members were right about Aickman's writing - it unsettles one in so many ways, and more pertinently, leaves the reader searching desperately for a solution to its mysteries. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.170 |
He also makes the world itself feel big and strange. I had a very aickmanesque dream last night. In it we lived next door to a man with lots of land. He had various little buildings on it, one of which looked like a little old office block only two stories high. There was a way into this garden, so one day I went looking round. I went inside the office block and found it all open and quite functional-looking. I bumped into the old man on the way out who told me I could look round whenever I liked. So I kept going round this office and found it had a working lift, then more floors than I'd expected. what happened next was I discovered there were people working in this office, ones I initially hid from, but then started saying 'hi' to and vice versa. They never questioned who I was or anything. The more i went the more the place grew, until one day I looked out of the window and saw a view not at all like the one I knew to be around my house. My big feeling in the end, looking down from this tower (which was largely empty) was that my family looked very strange to me, like I didn't know them. The dream didn't end neatly of course. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
Tony, that dream positively cries out that you need to broaden your horizons while the Freudian symbolism of the tower is obvious. Not that I'm encouraging you to have an affair or anything!!! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.242.217 |
I read it as symbolic of the RCMB itself. "Man with lots of land" = Ramsey. "people working" = everyone here. Your online family merges with real world human relationships, and sometimes, in a world so cerebral, those who don't interact with you on such a (ipso facto) purely cerebral level, feel bizarrely like they can't know you. The dream not ending neatly = the many threads here that always end midstream.... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.242.217 |
However, now, if you woke up in a puddle of semen... I'll leave that one for you to figure out on your own.... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
Plus one of the characters is actually called Hubert. Can't go wrong with a name like that. As proved by Hubert J. Farnsworth... apart from that time he almost destroyed the universe. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
Steve, 'The Same Dog' is one of the many, many Aickman stories I've yet to read. What pleasures await... | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
I'm finding that even the lesser-known* Aickman stories are wonderful, Stephen. *More accurately, the stories which aren't quite so famous as the likes of Ringing the Changes, The Hospice etc. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.39 |
'The Same Dog' always struck me as Proustian. | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
The members here were so right - I'm so glad I acted on their recommendation & sought out Aickman's stories. There's a depth to these stories which others lack entirely - they beg you to seek out their meaning... As Des noted, there is surely a Proustian element to the story; twice, the narrator steps into - and outside - the ever-shifting boundaries of time and memory (our rigid definition of time being a wholly human conceit). This is perhaps why the story brings to mind not only 'Proustian (involuntary) memory' (which is in effect more than mere memory - it's as if the realisation of the essence of memory requires us to actually be there rather than simply ponder on the past) but also such seemingly-random thoughts as that old supernatural-fiction staple 'the house one visits which doesn't actually exist in the present'...akin to another trope 'the graveyard which can only be seen once'. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Steve - I'll be interested to hear what you make of Aickman's "Growing Boys". I think it's rubbish - the first mis-step I've come across in Aickman's work, but it's a spectacular mis-step. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.39 |
'Growing Boys' is Dr-Whoesque - Russell T Davies style? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I just thought it was pants. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
That collection is uneven: 'Wood' is superb but 'Growing Boys' and 'Compulsory Games' are (like the earlier 'My Poor Friend') unimpressive attempts at social satire. Apropos of the poetry thread, it has to be said that when some writers take on socio-political themes, you wish they wouldn't. The first half of Aickman's 'Never Visit Venice' is a stupefyingly arrogant and pointless anti-Italian rant, the second half is a lyrical ghost story. A good editor would have made him tear up the first dozen pages and start the story halfway through. | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
I only possess Cold Hand in Mine, Gary, so you'll be spared my analysis of Growing Boys. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.39 |
Russell T Davies is perhaps pants, too. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.177.37 |
Does anyone else feel that Aickman's stuff is like seeing/reading your own memories? It's a sense of vividness few accomplish. Like being snatched and swalowed by a passing dream, it is. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.177.37 |
Ugh, shouldn't have alowed that one... | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.39 |
Does anyone else feel that Aickman's stuff is like seeing/reading your own memories? ========== I like that one, Tony. And it comes back to my Proustian observation, too. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.177.37 |
Yes. All the places in his stories feel familiar to me, and when they don't they still feel as though somewhere they exist. I can't forget those 'houses of the Russians', or even the weather in the story. | ||
| Steve Jensen (Stevej) Username: Stevej Registered: 07-2009 Posted From: 82.0.77.233 |
I think I know what you mean, Tony. Also, reading Aickman is for me a little like...well, like being afraid of a spider; you know it's irrational - fearing something (basically) because it's different to you, has more limbs etc etc - but because we're taught to systematise everything, practically from birth, anything seemingly outside of those systems & categories seems uncanny, threatening, disturbing; such are Aickman's stories for me; they're beyond the comfort of the familiar yet, as with the very best horror, they nevertheless remind us of ourselves. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.177.37 |
Been thinking about Aickman today, and the other writers I love. They make one feel redundant. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.10.20.129 |
I finally secured a copy of the massive MR James collection- A Pleasing Terror- the second printing. I missed the first publication- and it is terribly expensive now! Can't wait for this tome to come out! | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Does it include 'The Five Jars' Karim? That's the only piece of M.R. James' fiction I'm aware of not having. As for Robert Aickman... I've said it all elsewhere yet still feel that words fail me to describe the effect of his stories. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.178.219 |
"Yes. All the places in his stories feel familiar to me, and when they don't they still feel as though somewhere they exist. I can't forget those 'houses of the Russians', or even the weather in the story." Tony, I feel the same way. Not just with Aickman, but also with many of my favourite writers: Machen, Leiber, Hoffmann, Dinesen, Blackwood, de la Mare... they all resonate on a very deep, personal level. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.196.50.122 |
Stephen: Does it include 'The Five Jars' Karim? ____ Yes, I believe it does, Stephen! | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Choke... ... Hubert was so right!! Read 'The Abscess' by Myc Harrison last night from the 17th Pan Horror and suffering for it this morning. This story is a brilliantly sustained tour-de-force of sheer terror that combines the sickeningly detailed physical horror the series is famous for with Lovecraftian cosmic horror of the unknown and it all takes place within a dentist's surgery. I defy anyone to read this and not have developed psychosomatic toothache by the end as well as a bad case of the cold sweats! "My mouth is still throbbing and I pray it is only in my mind... as I'm afraid to go to the dentist." Fantastic!! | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Robert regarded "Growing Boys" as a new direction he'd discovered, which revived his inspiration. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.230.234 |
None the less, Ramsey, the last collection Aickman put together, the very fine Intrusions, doesn't have much in common with 'Growing Boys'. Nor does 'Stains'. So creatively it doesn't appear to have been a turning point for him, however it felt at the time. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.107.1 |
I think 'Growing Boys' fits with my sense of Aickman's sense of the grotesque and seedy as well as of the ineffable (seen through the gestalt of all his stories). | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
It's the only Aickman story I've read that I don't like, and for some reason I actively hate it. When I first read it, the story put me off reading any more Aikcman for years - which is probably why I dislike it so intensely: it kept me away from so much more amazing work. That's it; I resent it. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.107.1 |
To create such antipathy seems to be a great goal to strive for by any author. I've never read about such antipathy for a story before. Some people, though, say the same about 'The Swords', the most seedy story ever written, I feel. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I'm wierd like that, Des. I hold grudges. Against stories. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I'm also Weird. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.107.1 |
But not as weird as the weirdmonger. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I love being challenged by literature and having my expectations turned on their head. Haven't read 'Growing Boys' and now can't wait to... where is it available? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
So do I, but the story did neither of those things for me I'm afraid. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
I must confess I've never read any Aickman but I quite fancy trying some. Where would you folks recommend a newbie to his works should start? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
The Wine-dark Sea is a good compilation of some of his top-notch tales, but basically any Aickman collection is worth your time. Get thee on Abebooks, missus! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Get thee on Abebooks, missus!<< That might be a good idea, Gary. I have a voucher to spend with them, and I was wondering what to get. Right, I'm off to AbeBooks ... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.227.133 |
I haven't read this "Growing Boys". What is it that puts you off, Zed? I can't conceive of the tale being (horror of horrors!) badly written . . . | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
The fact that it's about two young boys growing massive. The literal nature of the story and title: it's crass. Totally unlike any other Aickman tale. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.107.1 |
I feel he wrote other stories that did not ostensibly fit his canon but surrepititiously fit his gestalt: "Larger Than Life", 'Marriage", "No Stronger Than a Flower" and others. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
Of all the Aickman's I've read only 'No Stronger Than A Flower' didn't seem to fit in with the others - but it was still a cracking little tale. On the evidence of what I've read and the relatively small body of his work (less is more after all) I find it almost unthinkable that he could write a bad story or anything less than fascinating. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
It's all about personal taste, innit. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.188.65 |
Personal taste aside, Aickman's writing, even in his lesser stories (of which there are only a few, in my opinion) was always impeccable. His writing is smooth, fluid, precise, assured, evocative - he was so talented that all of his stories, even the not-quite-so-good ones, are a genuine pleasure to read. I think some of today's writers could learn a thing or two from his work. Personally, I think that the following stories aren't quite up to his usual standard: "Residents Only" "Laura" "Mark Ingestre: the Customer's Tale" "Le Miroir" "Rosamund's Bower" "Compulsory Games" The Waiting Room" (good, but lacking the hallmark strangeness of his best stuff). I've never been quite as fond of "The Cicerones" as others seem to be (I think it's good, but not great). I have not yet read "Growing Boys" (I always try to save a tale or two by my favourite authors, so that there is something new to read in the future). My own 'top 20' Aickman stories, in no particular order: "The Inner Room" "The Stains" "Wood" "Into the Wood" "The School Friend" "The Wine-Dark Sea" "The Trains" "The Visiting Star" "Ravissante" "The Real Road to the Church" "The Clock Watcher" "Bind Your Hair" "The Houses of the Russians" "The Same Dog" "The Swords" "The Fetch" "No Time Is Passing" "Letters to the Postman" "Ringing the Changes" "The Hospice" Most of the ones I haven't mentioned are nearly as good, I think ("The View", "The Next Glade", "A Roman Question", "Meeting Mr. Millar", "Larger Than Oneself", etc.). | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I don't think anyone above questioned the quality of Aickman's writing, Huw - unless I missed something, of course. I never took to "The Same Dog". It's almost wilfully obscure to the point that it seems, to me, to be about nothing. Just an odd anecdote with no real substance. IMHO. At his best, though ("Wood", "The Stains", "Your Tiny Hand is Frozen", "Ringing the Changes", "The Hospice" and many, many more) he's untouchable. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 81.155.107.1 |
Has anyone else read the amazing 'Marriage'?! | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.188.65 |
Thanks for clarifying, Gary. I didn't think anyone was questioning the quality of his writing, but it's hard to be sure on message boards sometimes (especially if you are in a daze half the time like I am). It's funny how we take to different stories, isn't it? I've never been bowled over by "The Cicerones" but I know many consider it one of his best. So, I can see how you may not care for say, "The Same Dog", which I loved. I think I remember Des enthusing about "Residents Only", which I found to be a bit dull, frankly. It's as though we all have a filter in our minds that lets certain stories through so that they affect us much more strongly than they might another reader. Does that make sense? Sorry, I am not very articulate today - I've got a severe case of cellulitis, on top of the usual stuff, and am a bit out of it (which is kind of how Aickman's stories sometimes make me feel, come to think of it). | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.188.65 |
Des, yes: I remember Ellen Brown and Helen Black (or was it the other way round?) well - an amazing story indeed! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
It's as though we all have a filter in our minds that lets certain stories through so that they affect us much more strongly than they might another reader. That makes perfect sense to me, my friend. It's facsinating, really, when you think about it. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Just finished the 17th (and final) Fontana Horror book edited by Mary Danby. The series went out on a high with some real crackers included: 'The Laocoön Complex' (1937) by J.C. Furnas. 'Firstborn' (1981) by David Campton. 'Harry : A Ferret' (1975) by Patricia Highsmith. 'The Leather Funnel' (1900) by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. 'Reply Guaranteed' (1968) by Ramsey Campbell. 'The Yellow Sign' (1895) by Robert W. Chambers. ...every one a certified classic imho. Now for the 18th Pan Horror. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
I've got the story Harry - a ferret at home in a collection of Highsmith stories called The Animal Lover's Book of Beastly Murder. It's got to be one of my favourite ever book titles. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I especially liked the playful references to the Ripley books in that ferret story. The boy could even have been Tom projecting his madness onto the one creature he felt any affinity for... I believe it was he committed the murder and fantasised the rest. Highsmith's short horror stories should be much better known. She was a master of the form imo. Coincidentally there's another one of her's in the 18th Pan: 'The Bravest Rat In Venice'. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Just read my second ever Walter de la Mare story - 'Bad Company' - and it was a brilliant little ghost story with an understated oddness about it highly redolent of the style of Robert Aickman. The other I've read was the masterpiece 'Seaton's Aunt' and it's got me wondering just how important this man is in the development of supernatural fiction? Anyone here read his 1910 horror novel 'The Return'? |