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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:19 pm:   

What are they?

Mine would be

Violent shit 2 - mother hold my hand

I suppose the title did give me a clue on this one. It was cheaply filmed (which isn't always a bad thing) but also very very amateurishly done. Not recommended on any level. However the masochistic part of me does want to track down the original Violent Shit to see if it's as bad.

Batman and Robin - The only film I've ever walked out of the cinema in the middle of. I thought it was so bad.

Battlefield earth - This clearly has a big budget but wtf did it go? The acting is uniformly dreadful and the plot has holes big enough to drive a full squadron of 1000 year old but mysteriously still working and unrusted fighter planes - piloted by a group of people who've only read the manuals but can still beat the aliens in an arial battle despite the fact that the aliens beat these planes in 11 seconds flat 1000 years ago - through. Truly dreadful.

Craig - we know that Donnie darko and The Mist will be on your list so miss those off, so can we hear a new one please?
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:23 pm:   

Woodchipper Massacre would be high on my list...
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:23 pm:   

Murder-Set-Pieces is certainly one of my candidates, but the absolute worst that I can bring to mind just now would be Michael Winner's last (thank God!) film Parting Shots.
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.47
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:24 pm:   

I want to see that just for the title - that sounds insane.

I've got a poster for Barn of the Blood Llama at the top of my stairs but I've never managed to track down the film...
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:25 pm:   

My comment was aimed at Zed. Crossed posts with Ramsey
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:27 pm:   

Bit of a controversial one perhaps, but...Mars Attacks!
I just didn't get the so-called humour in this at all...all that po-faced line delivery is supposed to be funny?
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:30 pm:   

Murder-Set-Pieces...I woud have added that above but couldn't remember the title. Dull as dishwater.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.21.235.87
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:32 pm:   

Severely disappointing after all the media hullabaloo: The Exorcist.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.69
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:32 pm:   

Whu-? - Mars Attacks! is great! The humour was in the balls-out horribleness of it all.
One film that bored me and is therefore bad was Regarding Henry with Harrison Ford. Whenever I think of the word dull it's there wrapped round it not letting go.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.69
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:34 pm:   

Hmm... tread carefully with The Exorcist; I've found it changes with viewings. Once I turned it off, bored as heck, then the next time had to go round putting all the lights on I was so frightened.
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.47
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:40 pm:   

I agree there. First time I saw it I was disappointed. Second time I saw it I actually picked up on all the subtleties and it was damned effective.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:45 pm:   

Sorry, Tony.

I guess I find American-style humour either:

a) Quite brilliant, sometimes, or
b) Incredibly dull; check Mel Brooks (a comedic genius of sorts) & his 'comic' monologues...sheesh.
At the risk of generalising, much of American humour (it seems to me) consists of serious delivery of supposedly funny lines; this often fails, for me.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.255.141
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:48 pm:   

This is so difficult a decision - there's bad-but-good, and bad-but-lesser (like direct-to-dvd stuff, which I barely count), bad-but-guilty-pleasure, bad-but-adaptation....

How about ONE HOUR PHOTO? That one I remember has hating beyond hating, and desperately wanting those precious lost hours back in my life... for now, I'll just go with this sh*t-waste-of-time...
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:52 pm:   

Not sure where I heard this but it's one of the best descriptions I've heard of the difference between English and American humour.

If you have the situation in you film where an 8 year old girl ends up in a boxing ring against the world heavyweight champion, in the American version, the girl will win the fight, in the English version...

BTW I think Airplane is easily one of the two funniest films of all time - mainly because it's played so straight.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.69
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:54 pm:   

In the English version the girl will still win but more quirkily.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.69
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:56 pm:   

ONE HOUR PHOTO (yes...)
MEMENTO
Sheesh. When pretentious gets boring it gets BORING.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.21.235.87
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:56 pm:   

I remember I was eighteen, my sister seventeen. And they wouldn't let her in, imagine. Incredibly long queues well into the shopping street where the cinema was located. Newspapers full of people who'd allegedly fainted during the screening. And I? I couldn't believe how dull it was. I'd just bought Oldfield's Tubular Bells, so the passage where a snippet of it was used delighted me. But otherwise my disappointment know no bounds. Was this by the genius who'd made The French Connection?
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.255.141
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:56 pm:   

GARBAGE-PAIL KIDS: THE MOVIE is achingly bad, and bizarrely structured, like they ran out of money halfway through a delirium-dream... and yet it's fascinating for being SO very bad... though fascinating like it's fascinating tonguing a mouth-sore....

FOUL PLAY I saw not that long ago, a bigger-budget Chevy Chase/Goldie Hawn comedy from the late 70's... oh MAN was that a piece of shit! Whoa! Someone open a window was that bad!
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.255.141
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 04:01 pm:   

MEMENTO - great gimmick, but delivered in a "meh" way.

The same gimmick exactly is used in IRREVERSIBLE, an equally "meh" movie....
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 04:36 pm:   

I'd really enjoyed The Blair Witch Project, so I was looking forward to seeing Blair Witch 2 at the cinema - it was utter garbage! It was such a disappointment when I expected it to be as good as the first.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 04:37 pm:   

Just about any film (or book) which uses the amnesia trope.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.21.235.87
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 04:39 pm:   

Even the first one s***** as far as I'm concerned. The only thing I liked was the guy who'd disappeared (or died?) suddenly seen standing in a corner, a device also used in Session 9.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 04:54 pm:   

The only thing I liked was the guy who'd disappeared (or died?) suddenly seen standing in a corner

It's interesting that ^that^ incident is the one most remarked-upon by the film's viewers. When you think about it, it's actually suggestive of nothing - it isn't shocking, there's no violence, certainly no witch or ghost...not even the suggestion of imminent danger; yet most people find that image disturbing. Is it, perhaps, simply because the face is unseen - that 'tension' so familiar from traditional ghost stories ('the veiled woman', 'the cowled monk' etc etc)?

I find the fact that many people found that scene unsettling quite satisfying; it's testament to the power of subtle horror.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 04:55 pm:   

Darklands (1996 - dir. Julian Richards)

This is one I saw at the Fantastic Films Weekend a few years ago again, introduced by its director. The initial interview with Richards built it up in my mind - it was said to owe much to The Wicker Man, which is a classic of course. So, I was really looking forward to the film ...

What we got was a poor imitation of The Wicker Man, set in Merthyr Tydfil (have I spelt that right?) and full of plotholes, mindless gore and bad sex. Again, I was so disappointed. I think my least favourite films must be ones I expect to be good but which turn out to be rubbish.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 04:57 pm:   

Steve - what you've just said about that scene in Blair Witch and the power of subtle horror - just my thoughts too.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:07 pm:   

Steve - what you've just said about that scene in Blair Witch and the power of subtle horror - just my thoughts too.

Oh no! This could mean that you're as bonkers as me!

More seriously, my favourite theory is that we fear the revelation of obscured faces, in fiction, because...the face we may see is our own. Like Eva Galli's blurred photograph in Straub's Ghost Story; like Eva's words, when asked about her true identity:

'Who are you?'
'I am you.'

This theme is arguably present in Aickman's work:

''I am your soul,' replied a remote voice she did not know.'
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:10 pm:   

I think you guys are missing the point of the final scene in Blair Witch...the standing in the corner. Watch it again; all is revealed earlier on in the film.

If films like The Exorcist or Memento are your worst ever, clearly you haven't seen enough films...where Probert when you need him?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.126
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:14 pm:   

TRAINSPOTTING. And actually everything else by Mr. Boyle.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:14 pm:   

I think you guys are missing the point

Well, that would just like me - I only realised my house had been on fire when I read about it the next day.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.126
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:20 pm:   

"If films like The Exorcist or Memento are your worst ever, clearly you haven't seen enough films...where Probert when you need him?"

There are two questions here:
- What's the worst film you've ever seen?
- What's the most over-rated film you've ever seen?

I think I answered the latter, but maybe we're supposed to answer the former.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.125.231
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:27 pm:   

Certainly got to disagree with Tony regarding ONE HOUR PHOTO - I thought it was a great little chiller.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.21.235.87
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:28 pm:   

I've seen my share of splatter and slasher, believe me. These films are worth watching because they sometimes contain the single scene - e.g. the recently-discussed ending of Sleepaway Camp.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.125.231
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:30 pm:   

Tony & Craig, that should have read.

My choice? TITANIC!
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:31 pm:   

Yup, like the terrifying and/or hilarious bedroom scene in The Woman in Black.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:36 pm:   

There was only one question in the post title, wasn't there: What's the worst film you've ever seen?

Most overrated...Hmmm. Tough one.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.126
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:45 pm:   

"There was only one question in the post title, wasn't there: What's the worst film you've ever seen?"

Yes, but I think most people interpreted it differently.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 05:48 pm:   

Ah...the silly sods. ;-)
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 06:50 pm:   

I was definitley talking about the worst films I've seen - IMHO.

There is another point, though. There are films which we class as "bad" because we don't enjoy them. Those are the two I've mentioned in my case. Then there are films that are so bad they're good - Plan 9 From Outer Space (and any other Ed Wood film) would be a good example here. Plan 9 rates as one of my all-time favourite films - but it's a terrible film!
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 83.24.166.186
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 08:58 pm:   

Can't believe Memento cropped up, but oh well, horses for courses, I guess.

Craig - you never fail to surprise me. One Hour Photo!!!! Are you kidding...ah, forget it.

Truly terrible films: The Golden Child/Last House On The Left/Any of the MIMIC sequels/Universal's pillaging and comedy (?) reworkings of their earlier Dracula/Frankenstein/Wolfman films/TITANIC/Terminator:Salvation...the list is unfortunately endless...BUT, my number one is 'Salem's Lot: The Return (what on earth was Larry Cohen doing?)
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.225.235
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 09:23 pm:   

No, you just forgot how bad ONE HOUR PHOTO was, Frank - if you see it again, you'll remember.

Here's another movie I hated hated hated - STRANGER THAN FICTION - hated hated hated. Is it the worst film ever?... Maybe not, but I hated it. THE HIDDEN 2 was particularly wretched, speaking of sequels, but I'm not sure it's fair to bring up direct-to-dvd pics. THE CARD PLAYER by Argento has to be the worst film he's ever made, whereas Fulci's DEMONIA is unwatchably bad, despite the copious hilarious gore. Comparing BIG TOP PEE-WEE to PEE WEE'S BIG ADVENTURE is like comparing a toilet to the Louvre. Bad analogy, but whatever. CRAZY PEOPLE with Dudley Moore is embarrassingly stinky. Gosh. It's so hard to just pick one bad f*cking movie anymore....
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.27.177.149
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 09:27 pm:   

Anything that Gary McMahon and John Probert like which was made in the 1980s.
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 69.236.169.42
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   

"Heaven's Gate" leaps to my tired mine as among the worst.

It's kind of a ducks-in-a-barrel question because there are so many bad "Plan-9"-type candidates.

Maybe a better question would be the most spectacularly disappointing movie we've ever seen.

"American Beauty" I thought was greatly overrated.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 10:51 pm:   

I found "Salem's Lot: The Return" hugely entertaining.

"Heaven's Gate" is terrific. I love Cimino.

"Plan 9 From Outer Space" is so bad that it's entertaining, which means it doesn't count in my book.

I also liked "One Hour Photo" a lot; and "Memento" is one of my favourite films from the past 10 years.

It's all very subjective this, isn't it?
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.163.7.108
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:20 am:   

I came across this Norwegian horror film in Blockbuster that seemed to have been made by teenagers over a weekend with a consumer DVD camera and no lighting. They were in an under-lit car for most of the film, having drinks, and then someone got killed by an unidentified man with a knife everytime the car stopped on the side of the road. I couldn't believe that it had gotten blockbuster distribution- I thought that maybe someone had snuck a copy into a local Blockbuster branch in Copenhagen as a joke, but it was distributed officially. I completely forgot the title.

I thought Memento was brilliant because of the way it used its very limited means. Same with One Hour Photo.

I only ever walked out of the theatre during 'Copy Cat' I think.

I once randomly walked into a movie and it ended up being 'The Usual Suspects'- same with 'Romeo is Bleeding'
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.183.128
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:24 am:   

HEAVEN'S GATE wasn't that good in its original cut-to-ribbons form, but rather excellent on second release at its full length, I thought.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:24 am:   

Is that the same "Copycat" starring Holly Hunter? See, I love that film - think it's excellent.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:56 am:   

HEAVEN'S GATE wasn't that good in its original cut-to-ribbons form, but rather excellent on second release at its full length, I thought.

Yep, that's the (only) cut I've seen, Mick. thought it was very good indeed.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.254.137
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 02:07 am:   

I loved COPYCAT too, Zed, so that makes up for the not liking ONE HOUR PHOTO. MEMENTO was a catchy mistake, but I don't think it qualifies as a bad film.

That strange serial killer movie Karim mentions reminds me of MURDER PARTY - anyone see that? An indie that went directly to dvd, but it got lots of fans, somehow. I hope no one here likes it, because it is gawdawful....
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 02:14 am:   

Remember Sammy Jankis.

That's all I'm saying.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.69
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 08:03 am:   

I liked Heaven's Gate very much. It moved at life-speed, and I don't think people like that.
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 193.89.189.24
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 08:56 am:   

Yeah it was Copycat- I had pretty high expectations with Sigourney Weaver 'in a serial killer flick.' I was very dissapointed, thought it had nothing new to offer. I didn't like the way it was shot at all. Haven't seen Murder Party Craig- Haven't seen Heaven's Gate.
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 10:04 am:   

Any of the 1970s cannibal movies for me. For some reason these always seem to figure high on internet lists of 'scariest movies ever', but even as a teenager I thought they were nothing more than cheap, nasty gorefests with little or no artistic or dramatic merit. That sounds a bit pompous, I suppose, but for me a horror movie has to deliver more than just grue - and these didn't.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.27.177.149
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 10:28 am:   

Welcome, Paul!
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 10:34 am:   

Thanks mate. About time I started chatting online. As long as I don't let it distract me from work, of course.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.27.177.149
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 10:36 am:   

Yeah, you'll have to cut down from 300 short stories a year to a mere 200. :-)
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 10:49 am:   

Hey, it's Finchy! Welcome, mate.

I've just thought of a film worse than WOODCHIPPER MASSACRE...CANNIBAL CAMPOUT, by the same "director". One of the few films that has actually offended me.
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Mark West (Mark_west)
Username: Mark_west

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.39.177.173
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 11:05 am:   

Nice to see you here, Paul.

One of my candidates would be a total piece of dross called "The Cellar Door", which was truly abysmal. "Serum" was also pretty bad.

For some reason, whenever Tony sends out his Videovista list for the month, I seem to pick most of the dreck on it.

Oh yeah, "Seed" by the masterful (that's the wrong word, I'm sure) Uwe Boll. That's the worst ever.
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 11:40 am:   

Thanks for the welcomes, all.

Anyone remember an 80s nastypiece called 'The Kindred'. In it, Rod Steiger, who, considering he started out in films like 'On The Waterfront' and 'The Harder They Fall', really lost the plot towards the end of his career, plays a deranged biologist attempting some ill-advised genetic experiments. Not surprisingly, monsters result. But the monsters are rubberised and dire, and Rod's OTT performance has to be seen to be believed. He gives one memorable "Oh my Gooood!" which I can still hear even now. If you imagine Ian Gillan (of Deep Purple fame) screaming at the top of his voice for as long as possible, and then put "Oh my God" into it, you'll have something approximating Rod's utterance. Truly one of the worst horror films I've ever seen. Mind you, I don't know why we're chuckling. It's because of movies like that that we face the credibility problems of today.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.47.117.174
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 11:49 am:   

Great to see you here Paul!

'for me a horror movie has to deliver more than just grue' I've been thinking more and more about this lately and I'd say that it goes for me too.
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:04 pm:   

Worst films I've ever seen:

The remake of The Haunting,
Twister,
Pearl Harbor,
Independence Day,
Forrest Gump,
Top Gun,
The Golden Compass,
Conan The Barbarian,
Patch Adams,
Quantum Of Solace.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:51 pm:   

'The Kindred'...good lord, that was bad, wasn't it? Steiger's wig gave the best performance in the film (and supplied it's scariest feature).

A horror film certainly has to deliver more than grue, but I'd argue that an exploitaton film is more limited in its ambitions (those Mondo Cannibal films were never really true horror films as I define the term).

I'm a big fan of extreme cinema, but I'd call very few of them true "horror" films. I think there are subtle deliniations, but they're present.

Stephen - Judging by your list, I reckon you really need to see more low budget films and less Hollywood titles. Even the worst on that list is simply bad (not truly awful), and the best one the list - CONAN THE BARBARIAN- is actually quite brilliant, IMHO.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:59 pm:   

It's interesting that ^that^ incident is the one most remarked-upon by the film's viewers. When you think about it, it's actually suggestive of nothing - it isn't shocking, there's no violence, certainly no witch or ghost...not even the suggestion of imminent danger; yet most people find that image disturbing. Is it, perhaps, simply because the face is unseen - that 'tension' so familiar from traditional ghost stories ('the veiled woman', 'the cowled monk' etc etc)?





SPOILERS


Been meaning to pick up on this...the reason that final image is so arse-wrenchingly terrifying is because when the original Blair Witch used to take the children down into the cellar, she'd make them all stand in the corners, facing the wall, and pick one out at a time to kill while the rest waited their turn.

Hence, the image of guy just standing in the corner is simply terrifying. What made him do it? Where is the thing that made him do it now? What could possibly have scared him so much that he actually went over and stood in the corner, facing the wall? And why is he still there? Why hasn't he tried to escape?

Possibly the best example of suggested horror ever put on gilm.

Brrrrrr.....utterly chilling, IMHO. I didn't sleep properly for weeks after seeing that film. And when I did sleep, I kept expecting to wake up and see someone stand in the corner of my room. Facing the wall.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:59 pm:   

film
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 02:00 pm:   

I want an edit button for Christmas.
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:00 pm:   

The Kindred - george has a half brother - half brother, half something else!


One of my favourite tag-lines that
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:27 pm:   

Zed, I adore low budget schlock movies and have quite a collection of them. Even at their most execrable ('Zombie Creeping Flesh' for example) they are still brilliantly cheesy entertainment and frequently so unintentionally funny as to bring tears to my eyes.

Yes, there are some truly dreadful ones without any redeeming features ('Snuff' springs to mind) but I can't bring myself to hate them as much as I HATE the movies on the list above.

The sheer waste of money and technical talent that is poured into these atrocious mega-budget insults to the intelligence, that I have wasted my time to sit through, (not to mention the marketing blitzkrieg that precedes them) makes these films (for me) far worse than even the direst low budget efforts (which at least deserve some points for trying).

'Conan The Barbarian' is a prime example of a Hollywood turkey as well as a slur on the memory of Robert E. Howard's immortal character... Arnie has never been more irritating.
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.47
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:32 pm:   

But he knocks out a camel with one punch! that makes it worth watching!!!
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:42 pm:   

Yep, you're quite right, Gary. :-)
Perhaps the scene is disturbing even if one knows little of the reasoning behind it.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:43 pm:   

I think 'Conan The Barbarian' is brilliant. I can't make it through one of the Conan stories (sorry; another sacred cow knocked out with one punch), but can watch the film endlessly. It's incredibly brutal, wonderful to look at, and Milius's politics and obsessions with weaponry and death bleed through into every frame.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:45 pm:   

Steve - nothing is more terrifying in a horror film than silence and stillnes, IMHO. And if there's someone in a scene of silence stillness - preferably doing absolutely nothing - it's even more scary.
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:50 pm:   

The corridor scene in excorcist 3 is worth the price of admission for me. Also when Brad Dourif describes how he killed the priest - scarier by far than actually showing the murder would have been.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 03:54 pm:   

When I read ^that^, I immediately thought of The Innocents: Miss Jessel standing stock-still
amongst the reeds...brrrr.

And then the mood was broken by recalling the character named Alice Jessel in John Harwood's
terrible book The Ghost Writer.
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:10 pm:   

'Exorcist III' is one of the most underrated horror films of the last 30 years.

I only wish they would do the decent thing and retitle it 'Legion'.
That's a book I have in my to be read pile.
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:12 pm:   

My typing really is shit toady.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:12 pm:   

The novel "Legion" is amazing. One of my favourites. Haven't read it in about 20 years, but am feeling the urge to dig it out again...
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Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:12 pm:   

today! See what I mean.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:18 pm:   

I prefer this line, Weber:
"My typing really is shit toady."

In fact, that reminds me of when my old schoolfriend got married. Her dog was called Toady (named after Toad of Toad Hall in "Wind in the Willows"). The groom, when typing out his speech, mistakenly put "toady" every time he meant to type "today". The resulting speech he gave at the reception was something akin to a Two Ronnies sketch!
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.254.74
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:18 pm:   

I concur about EXORCIST III, a film that surprised me greatly when I discovered it this year. Boorman is one of those directors you just don't discount, he's hard-pressed to make a bad film. He made the greatest fantasy film ever (yes, Mr. Jackson, ever), EXCALIBUR. He made one of the best neo-noirs ever, POINT BLANK. And who could forget DELIVERANCE?...

He's producing a 2012 EXCALIBUR, with Bryan Singer directing... is it a remake?!?...

Why E3 is so good, and why so many disliked it, I think? Partially, it has the feel of a novel more than a film - and I admire that, when film takes on the feel and weight of a novel (which it could more often, if audiences took to that more; it's only lack of enthusiasm from audiences that prevent that style template from not being implemented - imho).
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:25 pm:   

John Boorman didn't direct EXCORCIST III. William Peter Blatty did.

Your're thinking of the very much inferior EXCORCIST II: THE HERETIC.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:26 pm:   

EXORCIST.

Fuck me...my kingdom for an edit button.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.254.74
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:35 pm:   

?!?!?

Wow, did I get that one wrong.... I'm still so enamored of II, that I guess I just read it as II....

So, um, if we're talking about III then - which III? There's two distinct ones. For the record: I liked them both.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.254.74
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:36 pm:   

And no it's not. Inferior. To III. It is to the first one, of course.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.254.74
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:37 pm:   

Or are there two IVs?... Is there a IV?!... I'm all screwed up now! I can't remember!
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:38 pm:   

Boorman, when he is on form, is one of the greatest directors around but he hasn't half made some turkeys as well.

'Point Blank', 'Hell In The Pacific', 'Deliverance', 'Excalibur', 'Hope And Glory' & 'The General' are the films he should be remembered for.

'Zardoz', 'Exorcist II : The Heretic', 'The Emerald Forest' & 'Where The Heart Is' are best forgotten by all concerned.
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 04:49 pm:   

In Stevie world there are only two 'Exorcist' films and both are based on original novels by William Peter Blatty. The first he wrote the brilliant script for (winning a well deserved Oscar) and the second (which I choose to call 'Legion') he wrote and directed quite magnificently.

All the other films are irritating distractions by comparison.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.5.8.186
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 05:33 pm:   

I really don't know how I got those EXORCIST movies so effed up in my head....

But, EXORCIST II: THE HERETIC is a very good film, that is under-appreciated. And ZARDOZ is just wonderful zany wacky sci-fi, that is more intelligent than it first appears - again, a very good film, under-appreciated.

I did see THE EMERALD FOREST, and was unimpressed - it tried to hard to make a political point, and it failed. Never saw WHERE THE HEART IS, I don't think... or did I?... about a hotel or something?... can't remember....
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 89.19.79.11
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 05:44 pm:   

This may be pertinent.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38626
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.167.117.66
Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 09:49 pm:   

Easy.

Inglourious Bastards.

A film so awful it made me angry for weeks, possibly the rest of my life.

Cheers Tarantino.

gcw
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Steve Bacon (Stevebacon)
Username: Stevebacon

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 90.204.111.240
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 01:29 am:   

I thought Magnolia was a huge disappointment.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.150.116
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 08:51 am:   

Craig - you know I loved Exorcist 2. It made me think outside myself, which is surely the aim of any art from. Zardoz tried to do something different and did it; surely another aim of the big A. To try and fail isn't failure.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.193.199
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 11:11 am:   

Zardoz is terrific - imagination and ambition outracing technical ability and taste. And that final scene!
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.0.106.15
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 04:45 pm:   

'Zardoz' is quite possibly the most cringingly awful sci-fi movie I have ever seen.

I was actually embarrassed for Sean Connery when I watched it (twice just to make sure).
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.220.239
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 06:47 pm:   

It feels like a sci-fi novel of the 60s or 70s, crammed with ideas. I think the effects are just fine, too.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.192.44
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 08:01 pm:   

Has anyone else noticed how obscene this Disney poster is?

http://www.nuffnang.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Christmas-Carol-Bullet.jpg
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.21.22.82
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 08:27 pm:   

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the latterday Tarantino sucks something awful.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 02:31 pm:   

I loved 'The Emerald Forest'. I also feel the same way about "Zardoz" as Proto and Tony - it's main flaw was trying to hard to cram in ideas, which surely can't be a bad thing. It's a fascinating film.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.47.117.174
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 06:08 pm:   

Watched FIGHT CLUB last night and got really drawn into it. Is this one of those films that people really love or hate - just wondering?
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.70
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 06:21 pm:   

Well, for me, going on the 'how crap it is in relation to how much was spent on it', then TITANIC wins for crappest film, followed by BATMAN AND ROBIN, the Star Wars prequels, most of Roland Emmerich's films, and LOVE, ACTUALLY. Brad Pitt's performance in TROY should rate a mention all of its own for crapness, I feel.

Crappest films I haven't seen, my list begins with the Pink Panther remakes and Sgt Bilko, because I can't imagine anything worse.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.70
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 06:23 pm:   

Oh, and I loved Blair Witch, agree with all the esteemed Mr McMahon has to say in regard to it. Haven't seen any of the ssequels, though.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.70
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 06:32 pm:   

I've never made it to the end of THE EMERALD FOREST either, though Robert Holdstock's novelisation of the film is a gem.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.227.14
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 07:16 pm:   

Fight Club is a great film by a truly great director. One shudders to think what b****cks this material would have turned into in the hands of a Tarantino.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 07:52 pm:   

FIGHT CLUB is a modern masterpiece, IMHO. As is the novel.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 89.19.80.162
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 08:00 pm:   

"Watched FIGHT CLUB last night and got really drawn into it. Is this one of those films that people really love or hate - just wondering?"

Yes, it seems to have that effect. I think it surpasses the book. But we're breaking the rules by talking about it.
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 88.202.207.22
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 11:06 pm:   

Oh hooray an awful film thread! The one that immediately comes to mind is one of the few films that has filled me with hated and loathing for its sheer frustrating incompetence, lack of respect for the viewer and the fact that it was an utter embarrassment to my beloved 'British horror film'. And it's:

Beyond Bedlam by Vadim Jean
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.183.128
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 11:23 pm:   

I bought an eight film Jess Franco box set for £10 so I expect to be able to add to this thread shortly.

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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.150.116
Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 09:19 am:   

Proto - I saw that poster when I went to see the film. I wondered how it had got by 'the people' it was so rude.
Not a bad film though, though the best bits involved the use of sound more than vision. Marley's approach from behind the door was just petrifying.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.150.116
Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:30 am:   

My kid just saw this over my shoulder and couldn't stop laughing.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.150.116
Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:32 am:   

And surely it's more than just a 'hellish tale of holiday horror'? That's almost more shocking than the metal knob...
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 12:24 pm:   

"Oh hooray an awful film thread! The one that immediately comes to mind is one of the few films that has filled me with hated and loathing for its sheer frustrating incompetence, lack of respect for the viewer and the fact that it was an utter embarrassment to my beloved 'British horror film'. And it's:

Beyond Bedlam by Vadim Jean"

John ... never were truer words spoken by a man of medicine. That truly is a travesty of a horror film. It's agonising in this era when so many projects are struggling just to get development money to look back on a relatively recent period when projects of that quality got green-lit all the way to completion and distribution. Even then I'm not sure how they managed it. Sure proof perhaps that some film-makers really are prepared to do deals with the devil.
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Giancarlo (Giancarlo)
Username: Giancarlo

Registered: 11-2008
Posted From: 85.116.228.3
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 10:56 am:   

Lucio Fulci's "A CAT IN MY BRAIN". I did not walk out against my own feeling of utter rubbish running on the screen.
It's my impression the man began to think of himself as a Master of Horror (and as such he's considered by many...I don't know why), so maybe he thought of leaving a meta-horror movie as a "spiritual" testament. To me, it was a complete failure because he ws not the one for the job.
On the contrary, Mario Bava, a real Master, almost achieved his own meta-horror height and depth with his "LISA AND THE DEVIL", the original version with no added pseudo-explanatory exorcism sequence which made a different kind of movie (though it has its estimators even in preference of the original LISA.) Bava rejected this second version as not from his mind. I find the original movie to be even a precursor of David Lynch's weird surrealism. Almost, at least...
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 11:24 am:   

One of the few films I've ever seriously considered walking out of was NATURAL BORN KILLERS. Not because I didn't like the violence, but because I didn't like the message of the violence.

It makes my blood boil when movie maniacs are transformed into antiheroes because the director decides that every person they kill must somehow deserve it. To see Mickey and Mallory mowing down an endless succession of drunken hicks and racist rednecks was pretty sickening when you consider that most victims of real murder are completely innocent. Of course we also had the big politically correct moment when they also shot a Native American grandpa, who they felt really guilty about. Dress it all up in MTV-style rock promo, and add a stylish soundtrack (provided courtesy of numerous different artists, whose contributions Stone no doubt had great fun choosing when he presumably was supposed to be working), and you've got a movie that menaces for all the wrong reasons.

Just my opinion of course, but ugh!, I hated it.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 11:32 am:   

I love NATURAL BORN KILLERS. It's a difficult film, yes, but one that I think deserves further examination.
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 12:18 pm:   

I prefer 'Natural Born Killers' with the supernatural pay-off included as it makes the film feel far more complete and morally defensible. I think Oliver Stone made a bad error of judgement by removing that storyline from the originally released version.

A properly restored version would be the greatest thing he has done imo. Currently, for me, that would be 'Salvador'.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 12:26 pm:   

I think Natural Born Killers is a very important film. Like JFK, it has its faults certainly
but the overall message of both movies places any faults completely in the shade.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.219.8.243
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 12:36 pm:   

Agreed.
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.163.2.144
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 12:42 pm:   

I'm with that as well. I would also add that both films, particularly JFK, are probably IMHO some of the best ever edited films.
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 12:45 pm:   

Let us not forget, after all, that this was based on a screen story by Quentin Tarantino who was never known to shy away from larger than life stereotypes or the supernatural intruding on "everyday" reality.

I love 'Natural Born Killers' too but long to see it get the proper director's cut treatment with the mephistopheles character who dogs Mickey & Mallory's tracks put back in and that ending restored.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.5.1.172
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 04:11 pm:   

There is an unedited version of NBK around, right? I know scenes were cut, and then later restored - but you're saying not definitively, is that it?

The goddamned film censors, bastards every one of them... how many fucking movies they ruined in the 70's/80's... they all should be flayed alive... or not (i.e., they can be flayed dead, too)....

I'm currently watching a film so horrendous, it has to be seen to be disbelieved: SLAPSTICK (OF ANOTHER KIND).
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 04:39 pm:   

It wasn't the film censors this time Craig but the director himself who decided having Mickey & Mallory be seen to pay for their crimes (even if only as a Faust-like fantasy) would neuter the effect of the film.

Instead it turned them into cool anti-heroes and made the film morally indefensible though still undeniably brilliant imho.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 04:43 pm:   

I've never considered the film to be about Mickey and Mallory, to be honest.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.241.205
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 05:28 pm:   

I just watched the alternate ending on youtube. It didn't do a lot for me....
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Stephen Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 05:31 pm:   

For me it completes the film... and is linked to earlier scenes.
Everything must be taken in context.
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.151.150.70
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 07:53 pm:   

*I'm currently watching a film so horrendous, it has to be seen to be disbelieved: SLAPSTICK (OF ANOTHER KIND)*.

Craig is that the one with Madeline Kahn and (I think) Jerry Lewis as two telepathic twins with weird heads?
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.151.150.70
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 08:01 pm:   

And back to really bad films:

I'll echo Ramsey and say 'Murder-Set-Pieces' is a truly awful film, with levels of offensive violence used in such a way as to be childish and an attitude to its subject matter and its audience that's completely reprehensible. Quite honestly the most unpleasant film I've ever seen & I hope I never see another one like it. And to put that into context for those who haven't seen it I'm someone who's happy to admit that I think 'Cannibal Holocaust' is really quite good
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 213.158.199.83
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 12:19 am:   

Paul - I have to quibble with you about the message the violence in Natural Born Killers seemed to imply. Stone's mission from the outset was to undermine the MTV generation of movie goers who barely batted an eye-lid at the daily franchised Hollywood violence that they flocked to every weekend. The editing and 'quick-change' style of photography was invoked because of these reasons. His was an exercise in the futility of stupidity. He was highlighting the state and condition of mainstream Hollywood, most notably the certificate allowance of teenagers into the theatre to watch constant gore and mutilation under the banner of top-notch action films.

It is an experiment in form with regards to all levels of media and it reportage.

As for the 'politcially correct' balancing act of the Native American, it was deliberately inserted into the script to draw out that this particular insidiousness. That's what he wanted. The stupidity he was so aghast at was reflected by comments similar to this.

Do you really think that Stone thought this would wash?

He's been on record about this many times. Whatever you might think about the man, he's aware of the audience, and not just his audience. He doesn't condescend, that's for sure. And I'm not a Stone fan. Really.

I think he's a touch pompous, and to be honest, he's more jingoistic than he would imagine, but for all his errors (like slagging off Tarantino for glorifying violence and his statement that America never lost Vietnam but that Vietnam lost America...that it was a tactical pull-out...I leave that for the military buffs), I still think NBK is a seminal work of cinema, and that it defies classification or genre.

Personally, I think it's a masterpiece.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.16.84.152
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 01:34 am:   

Yes, John, it is - and it is amazingly awful, and yet entertainingly so. I am watching stunned, that this was even made. Jerry Lewis and Madeline Kahn play dual roles each - the telepathic twins spend most of the movie in giant baby onesies. Pat Morita plays a thumb-sized Chinese communist for no reason (i.e., there's no clear reason given why he's thumb-sized - probably no reason why he's doing this movie, either). Merv Griffin hams it up in a bit role. WOW, is this one a piece of work. Though I do detect one of the "sources of the Nile" for one writer/director - Charlie Kaufman.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.174.117
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 09:07 am:   

Just watched Friday 13th; Jason Takes Manhattan. Good grief.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 213.158.199.91
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 10:49 am:   

Paul - sorry, mate. Part of what I was saying about 'the stupidity of comments similar to this' wasn't meant about your comments. I was actually referring to the MEDIA who lambasted Stone when it first came out. They missed the point entirely.
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Steve Jensen (Stevej)
Username: Stevej

Registered: 07-2009
Posted From: 82.0.77.233
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 12:51 pm:   

Re: Natural Born Killers: like every artistic creation, perhaps its fundamental value lies in how you - the viewer, the reader etc - interprets the work. For example, a brief close-up of McCluskey's oversized cufflinks spoke to me of an overtly macho culture - a contradiction; lacking stable identity; jewellery and overt glamour are ordinarily viewed as feminine 'properties' - and all the dire consequences of such narcissism; that is my interpretation, and it works for me; for another, it might mean absolutely nothing. It's a throwaway shot yet laden with meaning to the spectator if not the director; but I tend to think that the meaning was there all along, and deliberately implied...
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 213.158.199.99
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 01:02 pm:   

Steve - yes, mate. Exactly. Interpretation is everything with NBK. I emailed you pal.

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