| Author | Message | ||
     Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
Watched 'After Hours' (1985) tonight for the first time since it came out out....I loved it all over again (Soozy hated it!). gcw | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.200.19 |
I absolutely love it. Have any other films caught the bleary, crazed atmosphere of the early hours so well? | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.187.201 |
I'm a big fan of this film too. Oh, and well said, Proto. I agree that it captures the mood of the time very well. Weird things can and do happen when most are fast asleep in their beds... | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.177.183.128 |
Love it too - an oft-ignored Scorsese gem, in my opinion, along with KING OF COMEDY, although the latter is more widely known. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.0.106.15 |
Yep, one of Scorsese's best and least appreciated films. This and 'The King Of Comedy' prove he can be a master of black humour when he wants to be. | ||
| Mark West (Mark_west) Username: Mark_west Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.131.48.200 |
Thoroughly enjoyed it, I don't think Griffin Dunne has ever been better. As Mick said, it feels like the unloved cousin of Scorsese's work. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
One of my favourote films of all time - And Scorsese's second best work, IMHO, after TAXI DRIVER. I went through a period in my twenties where I watched AFTER HOURS once a week. | ||
| Adriana (Adriana) Username: Adriana Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.231.152.180 |
Yeah, both D and I love it too. It's probably Scorsese's film that I think the most about. And often think about referencing in the form of a little homage... | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.19.80.162 |
I went 20 years before my first and second viewings of it. It still felt fresh. Funny thing is that if it was made today, the Teri Garr character would now be someone pining for the 80s. Brr. It's a film in which most of the characters Dunne feels threatened by are women or sexually-ambiguous men. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
It was his last good film. The one in which he felt most free. Think he was crippled by his gangster films and audiences (and critics) inability to let him grow. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.126 |
Yeah, there's another vastly overrated one: GOODFELLAS. Though I quite liked some of THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
I liked that. And Cape Fear. I'm just really not into gangsters; even the horriblest of the films inadvertently glorfiy them. Anyway, reading interviews with him I get the impression he'd rather just be making horror films. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.126 |
Yes, I've never understood how murderers and torturers like that are glorified when they're arguably worse than John Christie or Dennis Neilson, who felt compelled to do what they did rather than made a decision to do it for money. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
I quite liked Untouchables because it was about good people trying to catch gangsters... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
Exactly! They did it for gain, and regularly. They were oddly more heartless than the serial killers, who at least had a warped sense of interest in their victims. Their crimes felt oddly personal. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
That's what makes gangsterism and gangster movies so fascinating... these guys really are irredeemably evil and know exactly what they're about. They are businessmen driven by insatiable greed and lust for power who don't feel the need to hide behind a facade of respectability. Yet they feel compelled to pay homage to the family and the Church because somewhere deep down in their black satanic hearts they know you get nothing for nothing in this life and they still gotta pay the bill. My Top 3 films of all time aren't horrors, they're gangster movies: 1. Once Upon A Time In America 2. The Godfather 3. The Godfather : Part II ...and I love Scorsese's gangster epics! | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
I just don't see the point in watching films about people who I find alternately scary and boring, though. They're just smartly dressed chavas. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Stephen - me likey your list. A lot. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.126 |
"...who don't feel the need to hide behind a facade of respectability..." You're kidding, right? Hypocracy is what these guys are all about. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.126 |
"They're just smartly dressed chavas." Yes. Dull, dull people. Actually, Season 3 of Dexter has made me totally lose sympathy for the character. As soon as they removed his torment and "code", the character became just another smug murderer who just kills people simply because he doesn't like them. Ugh. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
What I mean is gangsters see themselves as businessmen who are just more up-front about their money-making strategies than the so-called respectable businessmen of the kind responsible for the current state of the world economy. Both have sold their souls to the devil imho. Gangsters are just a wee bit more obvious about it. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"Yeah, both D and I love it too. It's probably Scorsese's film that I think the most about. And often think about referencing in the form of a little homage..." I did! | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
Wow - look at these pics; http://www.gangrule.com/gallery/other.html | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Amazing. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
And read this. Maybe a real genre piece of horror fiction could be written about gangsters after all. http://www.gangrule.com/gangs.php?ID=1 Maybe they're a little fascinating. BTW I like the first two Godfather films, too. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.234.46 |
ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA?!... Okay, to me, it's the kind of film you see once, praise loudly, then never ever ever see again. GOODFELLAS and the two GODFATHERS are not in that category. (Wasn't GOODFELLAS titled WISEGUYS right up until the eve of its release? Some rights issue or something? I might have that totally wrong....) | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Craig, if you've only seen 'Once Upon A Time In America' ONCE then you haven't seen it. I have never experienced a movie in all my life that gets better and better and better to such a degree with each viewing like it! I say that as a discerning cinema enthusiast as well as the world's biggest Sergio Leone (not to mention Italian cinema) fan. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I'm with Stephen. I've now seen ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA five or six times, and it gets better with repeated viewings. A true masterpiece. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.234.46 |
I've tried to see it again... a few times... can't.... What can I say? Maybe the time is just not right for me, right now, to see that film. Children shouldn't bother reading KING LEAR: it simply can't resonate with them... and if it did, look out! | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I had a similar experience with 'The Exorcist'! I knew it by the effect it had on my mother, aunt and grandmother who all went to see it at the same time when it was originally released in the cinema. They had to leave when my Gran started getting too upset and never stopped talking about it as an "evil film" ever afterward. Remember this was an Irish Catholic family. Then throughtout my teens when it was available on video I kept somehow missing chances to see it in mates houses and once even when the local film club were showing it (reverse-coincidence?). Then of course the BIG BAN came in and I went 10 years without any hope of seeing the film at all to the point when it almost assumed unreal mythic proportions in my mind. When I eventually did see it (well in the 90s) the experience was a revelation after glutting myself in-between times on every schlock horror movie I could see. I still haven't seen the full uncut restored versiobn (yadda yadda) as the lure of a fancy dress party won out this Halloween but when I do I know what a treat I'm in for... the pleasure of anticipation is something I fear the human race is in danger of losing and God knows how that will affect our future evolution! | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.68.30 |
'Blue Velvet'. Old,but still impressive.'Things To Do In Denver When You're Dead' rings the bell too. The understated (and non-gangsterist) 'Slingblade' IMHO is superb:Billy Bob Thornton provides a masterclass in acting. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.68.30 |
The other absolute cracker is the Canadian movie called 'I love a Man in Uniform',directed by David Wellington in 1993. A bit-part actor plays the role of a policeman and enjoys it so much that he takes the role out onto the streets and begins playing it for real...A few people I've seen this film with have found it quite unsettling. I guess most of you film buffs have seen it.But for those who haven't,please give it a go. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Yes - 'I love a Man in Uniform' is a terrific little film. 'Things To Do In Denver When You're Dead' is even better. Boat Drinks. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.65.90 |
Boat drinks indeed,Gary. Perhaps we should re-enact that scene in a slickly contemporary British manner. Say,a pedalo on the Grand Union canal on a sleet-raddled February day.You bring the White Lightning; I'll bring the CostCutter sherry. That'll show those Yanks,eh? In fact,if we had a big enough crew we could re-shoot the whole movie while we were there.Give it a snappy new title too: something like: 'Things To Do In Wolverhampton When You're Comatose'. Aye,that'll show 'em. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.182.209 |
I don't think I've seen I Love a Man in Uniform, but I liked Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead. Buckwheats for all who hated it! | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.65.90 |
Huw, ILAMIU really is worth a look. Last time I checked there was a VHS version for £6 on Amazon. Aside from the content,check out the masterful lighting. The interior sets are lit by 'natural sources',for want of a better term. Many Canadian-crewed pictures have this quality about them. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
One of the best uses of light I've seen in a film is in Haneke's Time of the Wolf, where he genuinely only uses the candle or bundlr of burning straw to light a pitch black barn. It's almost using darkness rather than using light. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.182.209 |
Thanks, Alex - I'll keep an eye open for it. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.65.90 |
Haven't seen TOTW,Weber,but I will now you've told me. I suppose many people don't consider lighting that important. For me though,it can make or break a film. If you have light coming from ONLYsay,tablelamps,windows,skylights,candles,fires,flashlights,what-have-you,the n the realism is there and you're automatically set up to enjoy the action. If the set requires fluorescent lighting,then it has to be kind of cold and sterile to give me the required 'feel' of the scene. | ||
| Adriana (Adriana) Username: Adriana Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.231.152.180 |
RAMSEY - was yours a full-on homage or just a reference? I'd be very curious to know which story it is... (Perhaps those who've read all your work already know...)  | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Welcome back Alex, how was your holiday? Just recently finished the 17th Pan Horror and it's been by far the strongest collection of the mid-period so far. 'The Remains Of Reindeer', 'The Hypnotist', 'Thy Intention Turn', 'The Claygo Worm', 'The Abscess' & 'The Man Called James' are all real standouts that could hold their own in any modern anthology (as tales of the 20s/30s did in the 60s/70s). | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.70.151 |
Hi Stephen,hot and too humid hols,thanks.Stayed with relatives near Darwin,so managed to get out to PNG and Fiji quite easily. Have you had a vacation yet? Good Gawd;suddenly realised this isn't a holiday thread... Stephen,are you working your way through the series sequentially. If so,your opinions on the later ones would be interesting. I haven't yet received the latest Stephen Jones and Charles Black anthologies. When I do,I'll test your theory that those stories you mentioned 'could hold their own in any modern anthology' Not entirely certain I'd agree cos,as you know, my mantra is: then-was-then-and-now-is-now. That said,all of it is good 'after hours' reading,and we should continue to do it and encourage many others to do the same. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Yes, I'm working through them sequentially as well as the Fontana Ghost & Horror series - all of which I've kept since collecting them in my teens/early 20s. The beauty of the early period Pans, and the Fontana series throughout their run, was the intermingling of little known but brilliant horror tales from the 20s/30s with then contemporary stories. I believe a market exists for similar anthologies today selecting the cream of the old Pan/Fontana tales with the best of modern writers. You may even find that (shock horror) a lot of the new stuff pales beside the (rediscovered) classics of yesteryear. Once I finish the Fontana Horror series I'm starting into their Tales Of Terror series and after the Fontana Ghost books I'll be starting on Volume 1 of 'Best New Horror' (1990) to bring myself up to speed. I have to say I'm enjoying the process immensely! | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.125.141 |
'I believe a market exists for similar anthologies today,selecting the cream of the old...' Stephen,an anthology like that will be unveiled in March at WHC,Brighton. This one features some reprints of Pan classics plus new material from the original writers. So there's an opportunity to see,in the same book,how the new stuff stacks up against the old.I fear that my contribution to said anthology will ultimately lead to my being kicked off this board for chavishness. 'You may even find that (shock horror) a lot of the new stuff pales beside the (rediscovered} classics of yesteryear' Again,for reasons espoused on previous threads re modern writing quality,I can't quite accept that proposition. The only way to seriously test it,is if the publisher (a dedicated Pan pulpist)) brings out subsequent anthologies featuring modern,non-Pan authors,interspersed with vintage Pan 'classics'. Whether that publisher would require future contributors to conform to some Pan 'ethos' is a question to be addressed to him. He may say,"All I ask,is that you just go fuckin' mad". Which of course,is right up my boulevard. Writers (and readers) should put these questions to him at the WHC. Believe me,he knows his stuff. lol Alex | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.23.233.247 |
I had an idea for a yearly anthology for Asda for them to sell as part of their halloween stock. I bet they'd do it. Again, it would be a mix of old and new. An adult version and a YA would go down great guns, I think. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.87.5 |
Tony,have you already (or do you intend to) put your idea to them? BTW,you contradicted yourself previously on another thread, where you felt that you weren't that good at anything: you said you'd read your book and felt that it was really good.Personally,I think that was a seriously positive statement. I have precisely the opposite feeling about writing. Life's a laugh-a-minute in every other area,but I always feel that the writing specifically is a let-down. It may be why I'm so anti self-publicity,yet admire folk who do trumpet their work. Like you,they seem to have self- confidence in their writing abilities.I lack that. It's all quite bizarre. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.228.92 |
You may even find that (shock horror) a lot of the new stuff pales beside the (rediscovered classics of yesteryear} Maybe I don't read enough contemporary fiction, but I tend to agree with this. That's why I'm always very glad to find a secondhand Panther, Fontana, Corgi or whatever - and, conversely, more than a trifle reluctant to spend a lot of cash on an ultimately disappointing 'new' book. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
My memory of the Pan books is that they were around 80% trashy pulp and 20% good stuff. I might be wrong; haven't read them in a couple of decades. I loved them, but even then was aware that they were guilty pleasures rather than important literary classics. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.87.5 |
Zed has accurately nailed it. So,Hubert the implication here is that you may feel modern writers(many of whom subscribe to this board)don't have the ability - or indeed,the inclination - to write trash in the way that the old anthologists did. Contentious old Hubert. Are you advocating a return to the pulp standards of yesteryear? And would you then buy new anthologies containing such material? Blimey! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
That's an intolerable attitude. IMHO, Hubert should be beaten with strips of wet shammy until his ears bleed. Then, and only then, can we urinate on him. | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.87.5 |
He really must shape up. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
At the risk of going off topic, (but I reeally can't be bothered to find the start new thread wotsit, what's the pH score of DNA? (Deoxyribonucleic acid) | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
I've been reading old anthologies too! The fontanas. They do have something new stories lack; new stuff feels too literary, like it wants to be taken seriously. The old stuff is unfettered by such leanings. We want to be like them; they just wanted to be themselves. I think. The fontanas were better than the Pans, I think, rereading them now. Amicus to Pan's Hammer (if that makes sense). I used to feel dirty reading the Pans as a kid. I must have read the bit where the fat babysitter sits on the baby's head a hundred times - still remember that eyeball stuck on the woman's bum...  | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
Alexicon - I've only dreamed it up, not done a thing about it. but I'd get help from you guys if i was going to do it. My opinion of my work/book changes from day to day. Last week it really did nearly go in the fire, but today I feel it'll be quite good. You know - it has a lot of good things to it, I feel, but as many truly dull stretches. And a LOT of repetition. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"RAMSEY - was yours a full-on homage or just a reference? I'd be very curious to know which story it is... (Perhaps those who've read all your work already know...)" Just a little reference, Adriana - the bit with the twenty-pound note in Needing Ghosts. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
'We want to be like them' - but, we want respect, too, from farther afield. I do believe that. I know I certainly do. I want to write horror/fantasy but I want above all else to be just liked by anyone . | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
but I want above all else to be just liked by anyone Why? I find that a bit scary, you know. Just do your thing, Tony - people will either dig it or they won't. Be your own man. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
Hmm... I might have phrased that wrong - I'd like at least ONE person to like/love it! That, for me, would justify the writing of it - someone getting me. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
And i meant, I wouldn't mind if a none-horror person liked my book. I'm talking myself into knots here... :S | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
even more complex - I don't think my book is horror, but I also would love it to be thought of as such! Funny, isn't it? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Why think of it as any genre? I don't do that - I just write what I have to write and see how it turns out. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
I know, but don't you feel a certain spirit of something to your work sometimes? Something not quite in your control? There's been no direct ghost in my story but I can feel it there. Like I made a box then found something horrible in it when I opened it. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
but don't you feel a certain spirit of something to your work sometimes? Yes, all the time. I feel the real me: the one beneath the masks. He does the writing while I look on in wonder. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.116 |
Is this going back to tarot and coincidences? Are we just animals watching ghosts, or the universe as it passes through us, using us to talk to itself? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.225.209 |
Tony, there's no need to worry about someone liking it, the "long tail" of humanity will ensure that someone will even if you didn't want them to. (After Hours) Almost everything the Paul character says is a lie. Even if he doesn't know it consciously. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
"Hmm... I might have phrased that wrong - I'd like at least ONE person to like/love it! That, for me, would justify the writing of it - someone getting me." I think thats true of anyone here, myself included...We want someone to 'get' it yeah? gcw | ||
| Adriana (Adriana) Username: Adriana Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.231.152.180 |
I guessed NEEDING GHOSTS, but not because I remembered the specific moment. I just thought of the kinship between the two -- both depicting one nightmarish night. (Donald) |