| Author | Message | ||
     Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.131.109.157 |
Me, from the sitcom thread; 'Suicide, in Who? It sent a shot of psychic misery into me so I don't know how badly it affected any sad kids... I don't think I would have let that episode out if I was RTD, to be honest.' Weber liked it though, and I liked the bit with the dalek. Anyone else anything to add? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I'm undecided. I liked the fact that The Dr. suddenly became this pissed-off warrior wanting to control time ("I'm not a survivor, I'm the winner!"), but it was underdeveloped and a bit wasted. The monsters and the central idea were very good, but as usual the way it was delivered was a bit messy. I actually liked the downbeat ending, and the episode helped set up things nicely for a hopefully rousing finale to Tenant's tenure. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
The Christmas specials are apparently going to be even darker. WOM was exactly what Who is supposed to be - scary, well paced and really well acted. It's a shame we won't be seeing Lindsay Duncan's character again, but that was a logical conclusion to the show. Full points from me. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
It certainly terrified my five-year-old. he was quaking behind a cushion! For me, Who is hit-and-miss by nature. I've had a slight shift in my stance on the show. Nothing I've seen is as good - or as dark - as the old Tom Baker episodes. I rewtched THE TALONS OF WENG CHIANG the other week, and was amazed at how well it held up after all these years... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.131.109.157 |
You see? Suicide and such things would have marred such episodes. Entertainment need not be depressing to be dark. Stuff like suicide brings an element to drama that's hard to come back from. To cause a suicide? Especially by a family friendly figure like Who? That's dangerous. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.131.109.157 |
Actually, I'm a bit sick of 'dark' at the mo. It's getting like too much salt on my chips. | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.151.243.114 |
I really enjoyed it. Good, scary monsters and as above I liked seeing the 'dark side' of the Doctor in this story. Hope we see more of this side developing. After all, how long could you go on knowing you were the last member of your race before cracking up? | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.151.243.114 |
Any half decent Sci-Fi , dark or not, is instantly welcome in my book. It's hard to find these evenings with all this X Factor, Strictly, Celebrity jungle shite all over our screens. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
On first viewing I quite liked it, but in retrospect I'm less sure. Plotwise, I thought the monsters were under used and that there was too much chasing around (some of which was oddly unconvincing). As for the Doctor's sudden lurch towards megalomania, I'm undecided about that. Of the ten Doctors, David Tenant's has been one of the most together and most grounded in subtle righteousness. He's always been capable of destructive fury - I thought the end of THE FAMILY OF BLOOD, where he really let rip at the enemy, was bloody brilliant - but to suddenly decide that he's, in effect, a god, seemed to jar with everything that has gone before. The Doctor has witnessed, and allowed to occur, and been responsbile for - countless deaths. Why this small bunch of colonists should suddenly affect him so much, I'm not certain. That said, I'm looking forward to the final installment, to see how it all pans out. So in that respect it worked for me. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Actually, I'm a bit sick of 'dark' at the mo. It's getting like too much salt on my chips.  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I take your point, Tony. I don't feel the same, but I dig you, baby. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
The whole plot seemed to fit in with FlashForward, Hadron Collider sabotaging itself from the future ..... Enjoyed it. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Des, you're obsessed with the Hadron Collider. Shall I see if Santa will get you one for Chrsitmas?  | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
I've already got a hadron, thanks. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
I must avoid reading this thread at all costs - I haven't finished watching Waters of Mars yet ... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I've already got a hadron, thanks.  I'm thanful you didn't mis-spell that, Des... | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.106.220.19 |
Too much running about - I quite liked the ep 'specially as it got quite grim with the doctor walking away from it all. Then he has to turn back. Of course... Oh, and why wouldn't that dalek have killed the young Lindsey Duncan? Surely if her offspring were mainly responsible for humans leaving earth to explore the galaxy and beyond, it would have wanted to stop her. I see the Hadron Collider problem was down to a piece of someone's baguette. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.126 |
Oops, from other thread: RTD has lost the ability to see when a story is fundamentally undramatic. Exploding sparks are not dramatic. Music is not dramatic. Drama is dramatic. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.131.109.157 |
I read the bit with the dalek in my own way; I read it that it was a 'good' dalek being nioce when nobody was looking. Wouldn't it be great if the daleks were good in the very first ep of the new series, and it was never referred to? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.131.109.157 |
'Nioce'? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.126 |
Yeah, I kind of thought that too.. that the Daleks are only bad in the way all human beings were compelled to be so in the world of 1984. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Drama is dramatic. What constitues Drama? To me, the impending death of the entire supporting cast, the external conflict with some scary monsters and the doctor's internal conflict on whether or not he should help this time was pretty dramatic. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Oh, and why wouldn't that dalek have killed the young Lindsey Duncan? The Dr. explained this...some events are simply meant to happen, no matter what, and even the Dalek knew that. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.233.55 |
What constitues Drama? A situation in which characters take meaningful action. That didn't happen until 5 mins to the end. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
OK, I can participate in this thread now - I've finished watching it! I quite enjoyed the premise - the Doctor "losing it" and showing his darker side once again. It sits well with earlier incarnations of the Doctor from the "classic" series - from the 1st Doc contemplating killing the injured caveman to give the rest of them more chance to escape, to the 7th Doc trying to break down his loyal companion's complete trust in him in order to set things right generally. I like that deliving into the darker side of the Doc. After all, if someone is supposed to be all-powerful, all-seeing and all-good, just how close to being all-evil as well would he (or she) actually be? The monsters were good and scary too - just right for kids, and I liked the nod to the classic series again, ie. ice warriors. Tony - I can see why you feel uneasy about the suicide issue, but, looking at it from a kid's perspective, I don't think it's going to cause any young 'uns to rush out thinking "perhaps the world would be a better place if I wasn't here" (I hope against hope it doesn't anyway  ). I think from a child's perspective, it will simply say "here's a very brave woman who put everyone else above herself" - like diving in front of a speeding car to push a baby's pram out of the way and losing your own life in the process. Her actions also showed the Doctor that he, too, can make mistakes. No, as far as new Who - and RTD episodes go - I thought it was quite a good one.  I do agree, though, there's too much running around, shouting and supposedly dramatic music generally in Who nowadays. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Just goes to show how opinions are divided. I thought that - unusually for this type of storyline - the characters behaved perfectly rationally and tried to get the hell out of there as soon as they realised what was happening - no sitting round talking about it - just "Load up the shuttle and get the **** out". That seemed like meaningful action to me. We - as the viewers- know it's a doomed action and won't work, which added to the tension for me. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Didn't see it and think I'll wait to get back into the show until the new Doctor takes over. RTD and DT have had their day for me and I hope for something darker and more intelligent with not so much forced humour and emphasis on 'running about shouting and making silly faces' in the future. The Hartnell-Tom Baker years still tower above the modern incarnation (ropey special effects notwithstanding or perhaps even adding to the charm). The Jon Pertwee years are still the absolute pinnacle of the show's history. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
7th Doc trying to break down his companion's trust? That would be Sylvester McCoy. I don't remember that episode, which storyline was it? I want Dr Who to get back to the days when he had more than one assistant. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
Hmmm, I dunno, (sigh) if you take away the fairly effective monsters what have you got? Not a lot really. Base under siege...been done to death. And no, I didn't like the Doctor going all 'mad' on us. And if SAYS 'I'M SO SORRY' ONE MORE BLOODY TIME...! Just hurry up & regenerate. gcw | ||
| Matthew Fryer (Matthew_fryer) Username: Matthew_fryer Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 90.195.182.161 |
I enjoyed it, though it wasn't as strong or as scary as the hype suggested. The Doctor's breakdown was a surprise, and seemed slightly out of character, especially over something as relatively small-scale as this, but then perhaps it was due to the lack of a companion to keep his feet on the ground. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>7th Doc trying to break down his companion's trust? That would be Sylvester McCoy. I don't remember that episode, which storyline was it?<< It was Curse of Fenric, Weber - when he had to get Ace to say that she didn't believe in him in order to stop the baddie. He was basically really horrible to her. Very out of character and very hard-hitting for that. Now, I must warn you folks that you are talking here to the world's greatest Sylvester McCoy fan. OK I know most people credit him with destroying the classic series. DW fans seem to either love him or hate him, but I fall firmly into the former camp. My first Doctor (the one I liked anyway) was Troughton, but I became a born-again DW fan with the advent of the 7th Doc. By the way, I saw Sylv and also Andrew Cartmell at a con the other week. Fascinating interviews. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.178.83.10 |
Ok, so it's "picky picky picky" time:- 1 - will Lindsey Duncan's character's granddaughter still carry on into space given that, instead of dying mysteriously in an explosion on Mars, her grandmother actually topped herself in her front room? 2 - why couldn't the doctor take her to the future to see her granddaughter doing the right thing (or not)? 3 - why couldn't the doctor go back and save the rest of the crew as well, before they were infected? Back in the early days (ie Troughton era) I seem to recall that the TARDIS was very flaky and that it couldn't reliably go to any particular point in space or time. The doctor seems to have fixed that now, so... WHY DOES HE KEEP SAYING HE'S THE LAST OF THE TIMELORDS WHEN HE COULD JUST BLOODY WELL GO BACK AND RESCUE A FEW? Plot holes, plot holes, plot holes... | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.207.237 |
I remember one ep (not sure which Doctor, even) which said it was dangerous to be in the same space and time as yourself. Hence, the TARDIS generally doesn't return to the same time and place much. Except Rose Tyler's flat, seemingly. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>I remember one ep (not sure which Doctor, even) which said it was dangerous to be in the same space and time as yourself.<< "Mawdryn Undead" - 5th Doc (Peter Davison) It was the bit where they had to try to stop the Brigiadier meeting himself! (oh God, I'm such an anorak  ) >>Except Rose Tyler's flat, seemingly.<< Ah well, the Doc's a bit naughty nowadays, isn't he? I mean, you'd never catch previous Doctors (before Paul McGann) snogging their companions!  | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.221.154 |
"Mawdryn Undead" - 5th Doc (Peter Davison) God, you're not the only anorak. I've actually seen that one. I did find a good Peter Davison, actually -- ENLIGHTENMENT. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Oh yes, Enlightenment is terrific. When you think about the wobbly special effects and cheap budgets that they were saddled with then, the view of the race they're watching out of the ship's window (porthole?) is pure beauty. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
How much of a Who geek are you? Quick quiz Who was the only Dr Who companion to die? What was Turlough’s first name? How many time lords have travelled in the Tardis with the Dr and what are their names? Who played the first Dr in the 20th anniversary special “The Five doctors”? Which tv adventure was used for the 100th Doctor Who novel? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
You missed one: when was the last time you had sex? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Ask your mum | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
What a suprising comeback. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Who was the only Dr Who companion to die? A: Peri, but later (in Trial of a Time Lord) it was revealed that she hadn't actually died after all, she'd simply married Brian Blessed instead. What was Turlough’s first name? A: Oh heck, you've got me there. I really should know it! Hold on, I've got to run through in my mind the start of Mawdryn Undead, when they were in the school driving round in that car ... How many time lords have travelled in the Tardis with the Dr and what are their names? Oooo, going to have to think about that one too ... Who played the first Dr in the 20th anniversary special “The Five doctors”? A: Richard Hurndell Which tv adventure was used for the 100th Doctor Who novel? A: The Two Doctors (novelisation by Robert Holmes) When was the last time you had sex? A: Er .. er .. er .. (my memory's not THAT good!  ) There you are you see, I can't be a complete anorak as I can't answer them all! | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
And the answer to the first one isn't Peri. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
And Turlough's first name wasn't revealed till the storyline in his final episodes. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>And the answer to the first one isn't Peri.<< Of course, I'm an idiot! (well, you all knew that anyway) It was Adric!  Still haven't figured out the others though ... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
OK, Weber, Time Lords (or in this case, Time Ladies) who've travelled with the Doctor in the TARDIS: Romana (do we count her as two as there were two different Romanas of course?) Susan (debateably, if she was supposed to be his grand-daughter, that would make her a Time Lady?) They're the only ones I can think of who have actually travelled WITH him, but there are a few who've appeared in the TARDIS: Mawdryn, from Mawdryn Undead, would be one, as would the Black and White Guardians who put in a few appearances each. Am I getting warmer ..? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
You now have 4 out of 5. well done. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Well, I had to look it up but it's ... *drum roll* ... Vislor Turlough!  So, what's the prize for getting them all right? | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.178.83.10 |
Let's face it - Adric was the only Doctor who character ever who really deserved to die. I'd have shot him if I could... | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
gcw. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Adric was one of my favourite Doc Who characters when I were a lad. And caroline, you cheated so you only get a midnight visit from William Hartnell's ghost, instead of the weekend away with David Tennant that was on offer. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>..instead of the weekend away with David Tennant that was on offer.<< That might be just as well, at my age I don't think I could handle Casanova.  I liked Adric too, by the way. So, you're a Doctor Who fan too, Weber. Let's see, we both like Doctor Who, 'Allo 'Allo .. hey, I reckon we were made for each other! | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
And we both have attended several FoFF... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Er? Now I'm trying to figure out what FoFF stands for ...? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Festival of fantastic Films It's about 3 years since I've made it down though | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Ah, do you mean the Fantastic Films Weekend in Bradford at the National Media Museum? I've never been to the Festival of Fantastic Films - that's the Manchester one. So, have we met at one of these then? I'm really curious now. If so, that would be a coincidence for the "coincidence diary" thread. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
No. I've only been to the Manchester one. You should come up next year. You'd get to meet the Landlord as well. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
I keep meaning to try to get to FFF, Weber - might manage it next year. Anyway, back to Waters of Mars .. My hubby reckons parents were ringing in to a radio station he was listening to yesterday saying that the monsters were too scary for their kids in this last story, and the Christmas one looks even more scary for kids. What do you folks with kids reckon? Was it too scary for your little 'uns? Personally, I think it's a good sign if parents are starting to say Doc Who is too scary for kids - they used to say that in my day too! | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
They were very scary monsters for small children, but thats a good thing. Perhaps in 20 years time, the grown up kids will say 'do you remember the water dripping monsters' much as I say 'do you remember the chair which ate someone'. gcw | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.151.243.114 |
Yes! A very good sign. My seven year old daughter was covering her face with a cushion! |