| Author | Message | ||
     Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.23.22 |
Oh, Dr Who was only ok... some great scenes early on but then the Master doing that crap thing came along, then the reappearance of the Time Lords (which I KNEW was going to happen) was utterly fluffed (it needed much more build up than this). I'm a bit sad, to be honest. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.226.105 |
Reminded me of a Philip K Dick short story. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.176.126.207 |
...and why did the Ood at the start say "you should have hurried"? Surely the Doctor can take his time and then get somewhere whenever he likes. I know, I'm taking it all too seriously but to be honest I think I'm now looking forward to seeing the back of RTD, and have been for some time. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.10.7.83 |
My impression is that RTD has read PK Dick and Stephen King, and has based his understanding of genre on them. He could of course do a lot worse, but it does make the work slightly . . . familiar. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Have to say I watched 'Waters Of Mars' (having missed it before) on BBC3 the other night and really enjoyed it - was good to see some much needed bleakness back in 'Doctor Who'. So I was really looking forward to last night's show but... what a complete mess!!!! The whole thing was barely intelligible with an embarrassingly OTT performance from John Simm that was very hard to watch at times. RTD seems to have lost the plot completely (imo) having seemingly stitched this episode together to lead up to a painfully unfunny pun ending that plumbed new depths of ridiculousness and completely negated any attempt to take the storyline even half seriously. I will always love this show but they've got one hell of a damage limitation exercise to pull out of the bag in Part 2... sheesh! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Oh dear! I haven't watched it yet - recorded it for later - but I'm wondering whether to bother now, having read your comments ...  | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.202.7 |
It was just tired really. RTD just amps everything up so high...Every episode has to be bigger..bigger....Boring. John Simm was wasted really, you could have had so much pathos with a Master in reduced circumstances. Roll on Matt Smith and a fresh start. gcw | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Caroline, please watch it! You have to make up your own mind and - come what may - I'll still be glued to Part 2 on New Year's Day. 'Doctor Who' has always gone through peaks and troughs (some people even liked Sylvester McCoy in the role) but the show is unkillable and still unmissable telly.  | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Personally, I was glad to see the return of the Time Lords. Of course, as someone else said, I never bought that they'd been wiped out completely. No race in Dr Who is ever totally exterminated. It's happened to the Daleks at least three times, and they've always found a way back. Wasn't sold massively on last night's episode. I did feel it was a bit of a lead-up to next week's big one. | ||
| Barbara Roden (Nebuly) Username: Nebuly Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 142.179.13.171 |
The episode started slow, but once Bernard Cribbins turned up things improved a lot. The quiet scene between him and Tennant in the caff was wonderfully touching, possibly because it was a quiet scene that just featured good writing and characterisation and two excellent actors making the most of it. Simm was very good, although I agree he could have done with a little more of a restraining hand, although really, who wants the Master restrained? Looking forward to next week's finale, although I'll be sad to see Tennant go. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>'Doctor Who' has always gone through peaks and troughs (some people even liked Sylvester McCoy in the role)<< Stephen! How very dare you!! You obviously don't realise I'm the world's biggest Seventh Doctor fan! I'm not kidding - I really am. My first favourite Doctor was the Second, but I lost it a bit (or, I reckon they did) towards the end of the Fourth, and I only really got into it again with the Seventh. The Seventh Doc rules as far as I'm concerned!  But I've just watched the Christmas Day episode, of course I have - I couldn't NOT watch it. Actually, I quite enjoyed it. OK it didn't hang together well in many places, but there were touches of pure brilliance - like the scene in the cafe, as Barbara says - and I thought John Simm was excellent too. When you think about previous incarnations of The Master, he's always been played OTT, a kind of cartoon character baddie. I think Simm is just excellent at that. Bernard Cribbins was brilliant too, of course, and I loved June Whitfield's cameo. I mean, what old lady wouldn't want to pinch David Tennant's backside (well, this one certainly would, anyway  ). Yes, I enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out. But I will be sad to see the end of Tennant in the role. He's been the best "new" Doctor so far - it's just a pity he hasn't had writing to match his performances. Moffat should make a much better script editor, I hope. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
One of the many things I loved about this episode was that the Master got to win again! In the past he was often a pathetic figure, none of his (very rubbish) plans ever amounting to anything. But here he got to win, at least for an episode, and in a brilliantly demented way. Stephen mentions above the pun at the end... I thought it very much in character for this version of the Master. To some extent he's still playing out childhood rivalries - getting the Doctor to chase him, for example. For him, destroying humanity means little more than breaking the Doctor's favourite toys. And if he can set up a punchline while he does it, he will. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
See what I mean... the show appeals to so many people in so many different ways it is invulnerable to criticism. I really enjoyed the return of the Ice Warriors (always a fav monster in the good old days) in 'The Waters Of Mars' which was an episode panned by most people for being too bleak and depressing - which I found a refreshing change of tone and (fingers crossed) look forward to more of with the new Doctor. I thought the Christmas Day episode was all over the place and John Simm in need of a valium or something while you all loved it. The highlight was that one moment of genuinely touching calm in the cafe with the Doctor showing his vulnerable side - again we need much more of this. I sincerely hope to see a complete change of direction and tone with the new Doctor. More convincing plotlines and a darker scarier bleaker streak calming the high jinks fun aspect which needs to be there but has overbalanced into manic self-parody in recent series imho. The end of David Tennant's reign has me getting quite excited about 'Doctor Who' again! Sorry Caroline, but when Sylvester McCoy and Bonnie Langford took over that's when I gave up on the old incarnation after watching (I believe) every single episode religiously since the early days of Jon Pertwee - still the best Doctor by a mile!  | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Sorry Caroline, but when Sylvester McCoy and Bonnie Langford took over that's when I gave up on the old incarnation after watching (I believe) every single episode religiously since the early days of Jon Pertwee - still the best Doctor by a mile!<< Ah, in that case you missed out on the best Doctor/Companion partnership EVER - The Seventh Doc and Ace. It was .. er .. ace!!  | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
The Third Doctor and Jo Grant ably menaced by Roger Delgado! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>The Third Doctor and Jo Grant ably menaced by Roger Delgado!<< Oh yes. I won't disagree with you there. Another great partnership, and Roger Delgado's Master was the business. Ah, this is making me nostalgic for the OLD Who. I might have to dig out a few old ones to watch, or else go and play with my signed collection of Target novelisations ... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Hey, Stephen - I bet I know which is your favourite 3rd Doc story ... is it The Sea Devils, by any chance? I still think that bit where they first emerge from the sea is one of the best Doc Who cliffhangers ever. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
.. or it could be The Daemons - another favourite of mine from that era. Sorry, folks, I'd better let you get back to talking about Nu Who ... | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
It's 'The Daemons' which I remember scaring me absolutely witless when I was a child. I've seen it several times since and it still holds up extremely well - very Quatermass-like highly intelligent serious sci-fi/horror. That's something the modern incarnation tends to lack apart from some standout stories of which I thought 'Waters Of Mars' was one of the better recent ones. I hope it's not just a rumour (or wishful thinking) that the new 'Doctor Who' series (without RTD at the helm) is going to go more down that line. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
"..very Quatermass-like highly intelligent serious sci-fi/horror. That's something the modern incarnation tends to lack apart from some standout stories .. I hope it's not just a rumour (or wishful thinking) that the new 'Doctor Who' series (without RTD at the helm) is going to go more down that line." Seconded. That's why I enjoyed many of the old stories so much, and why I just can't get as much enjoyment out of the new. I was recently reading Andrew Cartmel's "Through Time". An interesting read. He looks past the dodgy production values/special effects, etc and considers the actual storytelling. And there was some brilliant storytelling in classic Who. I'm hoping for a return to those days too! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I thought it was great fun. Really looking forward to part 2. | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.154.128.231 |
My fav Doc was also Jon Pertwee. Scariest moments of the Pertwee era, for me, were during the 'Terror of the Autons' storyline. That fake daffodil spraying the quick drying plastic film over one characters mouth and nose thus causing him to suffocate ! Then that evil looking plastic doll coming to life and attacking its new owner. Both utterly terrified me as a kid. Iconic scene from the Pertwee era: In 'Spearhead from Space' The Autons (posing as shop window dummies)springing to life and smashing through the glass display windows to wreak havoc on the city streets with their wrist mounted weapon. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Interesting to note that when RTD resurrected the show he chose the Autons as villains for the very first episode - evidence that he also recognised the show's absolute peak as the early 70s Jon Pertwee/Jo Grant/UNIT years. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
These things go in cycles, but the Pertwee stories are really out of fashion with fans at the moment - there isn't a single one in the top 30 of the recent DWM poll, compared to two Seventh Doctor/Ace stories. A lot of his best stories suffer from being dragged out over far too many episodes. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.188.213 |
Pertwee's comedy eyerolling in Spearhead From Space as he gets attacked by the Nestene Consciousness probably doesn't help. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.153.117.204 |
I thought it was superb. Hit all the right buttons for me. The Master has never ever been a restrained character and his plans have always been whacky in the extreme. Sim is doing a fine job and I really liked the idea of the Master having a cult to ressurect him. Better than some of the other plans he had to come back in the past. I also thought the quiet moment in the cafe with Wilf was beautifully played, Murray Gold's music is back on form after not overly impressing me for the last series and I punched the air as soon as I realised Dalton was wearing a Time Lord robe. WHO for me is supposed to be pure entertainment and fun. I think if it went too dark it would loose its sight as a family show. That's not to say it can't be dark at times. New WHO has proved it can do this while retaining its wide appeal. I think RTD has done a brilliant job and the fact that virtually everyone likes WHO again marks this era of this show as a massive sucess. They haven't made this exclusively for the fans and that's exactly why it works. As for the Pertwee era, I must admit the more I go back and watch it the duller and duller it seems to be. The stories are often 4 eps too long, UNIT are wheeled out as some kind of cure all on a regular basis and the stories are often far too low key. There are highlights though; Spearhead from Space and The Green Death are wonderful and when Sarah Jane turns up things start to pep up again. Anyway, I will be a giddy fan boy on New Year's day and I'll miss Tenant very much, but how exciting that we get a new almost entirely unknown Doctor, with a producer who we know is capable of turning out the most brilliant scripts. The future of WHO looks very bright indeed and, to misquote someone pretty famous, as WHO fans we've never had it so good. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
WHO for me is supposed to be pure entertainment and fun. I think if it went too dark it would loose its sight as a family show. That's not to say it can't be dark at times. New WHO has proved it can do this while retaining its wide appeal. I think RTD has done a brilliant job and the fact that virtually everyone likes WHO again marks this era of this show as a massive sucess. They haven't made this exclusively for the fans and that's exactly why it works. Well said, Jon. That basically sums up my feelings, too. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.202.7 |
Gotta disagree. I feel what we are getting now is too much... Too many old assistants, too much big bang, too many big schemes...Doctor is too emotional (no I don't like it...Remember Tom Baker showing Sarah Jane the ruined Earth in 'Pyramids Of Mars'? - Thats how it should be done). It's all a huge sugar rush - Look! Time Lords - wow! Plot's a bit crap though, rather like the last one...And the one before that with the bus. Y'know, when they did this stuff in Colin Baker's 1st series everyone loved it, didn't last though, now everyone (rightfully) see it for the dull self-reverential stuff that it was. But yeah, Doctor Who now is fun for the kids on a superficial level. It's not the intelligent sharp & exciting series it was when it returned in 2005, and it certainly cannot hold a candle to the 'Classic' series days. But hey, it's only my opinion, and I am hopeful that a Matt Smith re-boot will sharpen things up again. Anyway, Mick Curtis should have the final say...He can remember William Hartnell! gcw | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.153.117.204 |
"It's not the intelligent sharp & exciting series it was when it returned in 2005, and it certainly cannot hold a candle to the 'Classic' series days." No, I think it's the same if not better. There was a hell of a lot of truly woeful stuff in old WHO that people seem to have forgotten. Go back and watch Delta and the Banner Men, Trial of the Time Lords, The Dominators, The Chase and tell me it aint so. People seem to have developed this strange view of old WHO as somehow more dignified and restrained, which is certainly not the case for the series I grew up watching. I do think that some can be a bit over precious when it comes to WHO. And I say that as a massive fan, with most of the DVDs and a subscription to Doctor Who magazine. "But yeah, Doctor Who now is fun for the kids on a superficial level." I'd much rather they were watching WHO then the X Factor or whatever melodramtic misery whatever soap opera du jour has conjured up. I think new WHO is challenging and inspiring kids just as much, if not more than it has in the past. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.188.53 |
Old Who had good points and bad points. So does nu-Who. Right from the first bleeding episode. It irritates me that so many of the people baying for RTD's blood as his reign draws to a close are the same people who said how brilliant he was when he brought Who back. It's not that RTD has suddenly become shit (he always had a bit of the hack about him, even if he is good at the crowdpleasing stuff) it's just that now the novelty has worn off they've decided to remove their rose-tinted glasses. Plus now that Who is firmly established as a big money spinner for the Beeb Who fans feel safe in criticising it in a way they didn't when RTD revived the series. Back then the fans were so pleased to see it back they would've swallowed any old crap (and on occasion they did) just to avoid the show getting cancelled again. Now they think they can criticise it wth impunity. They'll probably do the same to Moffatt. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I lost interest in WHO after Tom Baker left the show - I watched the occasional episode after that, but thought it was silly and camp and cheap-looking. This new incarnation has sucked me in and made me recall how much I enjoyed the Pertwee and Baker eras (and even buy a couple of the old series' on DVD, to relive my childhood viewing experiences). That's good enough for me. More than I ever expected, if I'm honest. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Clear sighted criticism and arguing about who was the "best Doctor" is all part of the fun of 'Doctor Who'. I still contend that the show peaked in the 70s with Jon Pertwee and the early years of Tom Baker. Dodgy production values and crap special effects only add to the charm for me now. The STORY was all in those days and the family fun element was kept well in balance with the darker/more intelligent aspects of the show. I love the new incarnation and really envy kids nowadays for the magic it is creating in their minds that will go with them throughout the rest of their lives. If I met RTD I'd be the first one to shake his hand and gush out my thanks for resurrecting 'Doctor Who'... but his day has passed, he's in danger now of becoming a liability to something that was always bigger than any one man and he is doing the right thing by handing on the reins to someone else to keep things fresh and exciting. Less silly plots and bad jokes - more depth and a healthy dollop of darkness is what's needed imho. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
but his day has passed, he's in danger now of becoming a liability to something that was always bigger than any one man and he is doing the right thing by handing on the reins to someone else to keep things fresh and exciting. I agree fully with that, Stephen. He resurrected a show that was so dead it had decayed. Now it's a case of job done, and move on before he outstays his welcome. He's clearly a clever bloke. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Do you know, it's great to see Doc Who being debated so passionately again. And, of course, it's great to see kids having their own Doctor again. We've all got RTD to thank for that - which ever Doctor/era we prefer. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Indeed. | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
We watched Part I last night. It was good. We liked the Time Lords' returning. Sometimes bleak is good. Thank you. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.181.175 |
>>Doctor is too emotional (no I don't like it...Remember Tom Baker showing Sarah Jane the ruined Earth in 'Pyramids Of Mars'? - Thats how it should be done). Go to 5:00 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7aCrpgU9zg&feature=related I'm afraid the dialogue is slightly out of synch. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.202.7 |
(Wait til you read my savaging of the abysmal 'new' Day of The Triffids!) gcw | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
It was rather poor. Why did the "environmentalist" let the damned triffids out? Surely there comes a point where even a character as badly done as he was would apply some common sense. Oh look, everyone's gone blind, I think I'll let these killer plants loose while all the people are pretty much helpless. I'll be watching again tonight just to see if it can get worse. Oh and they did the triffids better in the 70's version, the new ones look rubbish. No wonder the beeb wouldn't release any pictures of the damned things in the prepublicity. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
wasn't overkeen on Who either. RTD has to be the least consistant writer around. I've said this since series 1, RTD's episodes are either excellent or complete shit. How thesame person could have written Midnight - one of the best of the new who - and the one with Peter Kay in just beggars belief. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.190.42 |
>>Oh look, everyone's gone blind, I think I'll let these killer plants loose while all the people are pretty much helpless. Didn't they keep quiet about the Triffids' carnivorous tendencies? That does take some of the stupidity out of it. Although the fact that he saw a Triffid attack the hero before everyone went blind brings the stupidity right back in. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I loved the Dr Who episode with Peter Kay. It was funny, cheeky, and very entertaining. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
I used to respect your opinion Mr zed. Not any more though. I now hold you in the same category as Craig when it comes to asthetic taste for TV and film. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
It's a good job I never respected you, then.  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
The Peter Kay episode is the single worst 45 minutes of television I have ever watched. This is probably not helped by the fact that I have never liked Peter Kay. The monster was designed by a 10 year old in a Blue Peter competion and the script was so feeble, the "humour" so forced and unfunny that it felt like it had been written by a 5 year old. Peter Kay played the villain like he was still in phoenix nights. Why would the doctor ever leave a person alive but stuck in a concrete block? it was pathetic in every aspect. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.109.155.8 |
"The monster was designed by a 10 year old in a Blue Peter competion" This was done is 'classic' WHO once as well. For what it's worth I thought the Kay episode was brilliant for the first half. The observation on fans and how they work together, how relationships develop and how the thing that brings you together often transforms into something else was brilliantly realised and written by a man who knows what it is to be a fan-boy. (see Queer as Folk for more on this) The Kay bits were just a bit silly but I applaud having kids as part of the show, it shows the kids that they are important to WHO and WHO is important to them. In a world of cynical, hate-entertainment where bullying isn't discouraged enough (Big Brother, I'm a Celebrity, Twat Factor etc etc) I think this is brilliant. Okay so it was silly, but it was harmless and silly and also a bit touching. "Why would the doctor ever leave a person alive but stuck in a concrete block?" Or chained within the heart of a collapsing star? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
I have no objection to the fact that the monster was designed by a child (who incidentally, when he saw it on the screen said "It was supposed to be the size of a bus" and that was his only comment about it). I actually feel sorry for him that it was used in such a horrifically badly written episode. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>"The monster was designed by a 10 year old in a Blue Peter competion" This was done is 'classic' WHO once as well. << Which monster/story was that, Jonathan? As a Classic Who fan with a thing about rubber-suited monsters I really should know that, but I haven't a clue. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
There was a design-a-monster competition in the 1960s, but I don't think the winner appeared in the series. They were on Blue Peter, though. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
From Wiki [edit] Design a monster competitionsBlue Peter has run a number of contests over the years involving Doctor Who. The design for the Abzorbaloff from 2006's Love & Monsters originated from a Blue Peter "design your own monster" competition. Contrary to rumour, the Krotons did not originate from a 1967 competition; a design-a-monster competition was held, but the winning design did not appear on the show. But it is from Wiki so I have no idea if it's true | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Interesting! Thanks, folks. Weber - I'm surprised you haven't made a naughty comment regarding me having a thing about rubber suits. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Caroline, in that case the Zygons must have had you in paroxysms of ecstasy... nice! | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
I didn't know this till it was in DWM a couple of months ago, but apparently the Zygons were designed by the same person who created Spider-Man's suit for the Sam Raimi film. There's something inherently scary about aliens who walk around naked... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Caroline, in that case the Zygons must have had you in paroxysms of ecstasy... nice!<< >>There's something inherently scary about aliens who walk around naked...<< Absolutely! (only kidding folks - I'm quite normal really) | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
The second part of 'The End Of Time' was at least a bit easier to follow than the first part and John Simm had thankfully calmed things down a lot. The best part was after all the noisy shenanigans with the Master (what happened to him?) and those pesky Time Lords had been dealt with and the Doctor thought he was safe. The answer to the four knocks prophecy was nicely done and made Tennant's final 15 mins quite poignant. So goodbye to him and to RTD and here's hoping for something different and a lot less frenetic come the spring! First impressions of Matt Smith... he looks so WRONG but I remember saying the same thing about Tom Baker as a child so what do I know. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.202.7 |
I'll keep it brief... The episode was bollocks, that said, Matt Smith looks very promising, and I'm tentatively looking forward to a fresh start. No more old assistants. No more soppiness. Just new and exciting horizons. Please. gcw | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.30.172 |
Well thank God that's over. I don't think a Lord of Time would use his powers to cheat at the Lottery. How grubby. Or travel through time and space to help John Barrowman bum somebody. I knew there'd be bumming. It was everything you'd except from a late-era RTD script: BIG, shouty and runny aroundy. Incomprehensible plot. And bumming. Gentle, elegiac, bittersweet, farewell bumming. | ||
| Matthew_fell (Matthew_fell) Username: Matthew_fell Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 142.179.13.171 |
The future, Gary, does NOT look promising. From the brief snatch we had today, the new Doctor looks a gibbering twat. The only saving grace is that Moffat will be in charge. And today's episode was NOT bollocks! I don't weep often, but this one did it for me. Christopher | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.30.172 |
Give Matt Smith a chance. He hasn't bummed anyone yet. And I'd be gibbering if I a) just died and b) woke up in a box falling towards the Earth. | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Overall the two part story was pretty dire and made next to no sense - RTD had clearly run out of inspiration and was chucking everything he could think of at us. The only saving grace were a few moments of genuine poignancy and Tennant's final coda. Apologies to fans but I feel nothing but relief that both he and RTD have finally gone. Yeah, Matt Smith did come across as a bit of a twat in the few seconds we saw of him but let's give him a chance... | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.202.7 |
"The future, Gary, does NOT look promising. From the brief snatch we had today, the new Doctor looks a gibbering twat. The only saving grace is that Moffat will be in charge. And today's episode was NOT bollocks! I don't weep often, but this one did it for me." Oh, don't worry! I HATED Tom Baker through 'Robot'...By 'The Ark In Space' I loved him. I just watched the new series trailer on the website, it looks (tentatively) good stuff, no more cockneys,no more saying 'I'm SOOO sorry' all the time. I really hated him saying that, with that wet look about him. Ok, I admit it, I never really took to David Tennant as the Doc', surprising really as I do think he is a good actor. Additionally, I am the only person on EARTH who thinks Led Zeppelin & The Clash are monstrously overrated, so hey, what do I know? Don't fret, all will be well... gcw | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I agree about Led Zepp, mate. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.202.7 |
Hooray! I am not alone! gcw | ||
| Stephen Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
God yeah, I spent all of 'Robot' grieving for Jon Pertwee and thinking Baker was a complete berk. Then that great series of four connected stories: 'The Ark In Space', 'The Sontaran Experiment', 'Genesis Of The Daleks' & 'Revenge Of The Cybermen' - scary giant insects, sontarans, daleks, the introduction of Davros and my first view of real live cybermen. How could we fail to fall in love with him! | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.187.8 |
>>No more soppiness. Just new and exciting horizons. Hopefully this will turn out to be the case but Moffatt did write the supremely soppy 'Girl in the Fireplace' as well as hinting at the Doctor marrying Alex Kingston so I'm not entirely convinced that we've seen the last of the soppy soap opera elements. God, I hope I'm wrong. As for yeterday's ep it didn't even hold my attention while I was watching it. The final revelation of the Doctor's doom was quite good but it was convenient that it took him so long to regenerate, giving him time to tie up his many loose ends -- it got to the point where I was expecting him to be returning library books and cancelling his milk, all the time crossing the items off on a little list. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.207.45 |
I agree about The Clash, GCW, but I do like a bit o' Zep! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I'm the opposite, Mick: I like The Clash a lot, and rate their contribution to popular music highly, but think Led Zepp are overrated. All that loopy, hippy cod-mysticism makes me chuckle.  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
it got to the point where I was expecting him to be returning library books and cancelling his milk, all the time crossing the items off on a little list. tee-hee.  | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.207.45 |
I admit Zeppelin were very overblown but I love the more basic bluesy stuff they did. For me, The Clash were just another band, although I expect Joel will beat me up at the next FCon for saying that! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
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| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.109.155.8 |
"I knew there'd be bumming. It was everything you'd except from a late-era RTD script: BIG, shouty and runny aroundy. Incomprehensible plot. And bumming. Gentle, elegiac, bittersweet, farewell bumming." For the love of God! I literally have nothing to say to that. Thoroughly enjoyable I thought. | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.140.240.57 |
"I knew there'd be bumming. It was everything you'd except from a late-era RTD script: BIG, shouty and runny aroundy. Incomprehensible plot. And bumming. Gentle, elegiac, bittersweet, farewell bumming." I'm always a bit weirded out and confused by the amount of fuss some people make about RTDs supposed 'GAY AGENDA!". Donna gets married, Mickey and Martha get hitched but OMG!!! THERE IS A GAY MAN CHATTING UP UP ANOTHER IN A BAR OMG!!! THERE MUST BE BUMS!! Very odd almost childish bit of homophobia there. But, yea. Massive pile of rubbish really. Huge plot holes abound and the last 15 mins were particularly trite. There were a few good points though. The Doctor ranting about saving Cribbins felt particularly 'true' and the Cribbins line, 'God Save the Cactuses' was great. Apart from being able to see more Cribbins i think the best thing was to finish up at the end of series 4. Looking forward to Matt Smith and the new producer though. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 137.191.240.163 |
"Very odd almost childish bit of homophobia here." I suppose I'll have to sellotape a smiley to the end of a broom handle and wave it about next time I say something cheeky. Bumming's quite a funny word, so I used it with reference to a character who, as written, was obsessed with little else. Rather an unwarranted leap to infer that someone is actually afraid of a particular type of sexuality from that. The real problem is RTD's utterly teenage understanding of relationships of any type: either soppy doomed romances or endless snickering at sexual innuendos. | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.140.240.57 |
'I suppose I'll have to sellotape a smiley to the end of a broom handle and wave it about next time I say something cheeky. Bumming's quite a funny word, so I used it with reference to a character who, as written, was obsessed with little else. Rather an unwarranted leap to infer that someone is actually afraid of a particular type of sexuality from that. ' Ah, ok. Fair enough. I guess i was more reacting to the millions upon millions of internet guff written in the past about 'Gay Agendas' etc. So, apologies if i was a little rude and pounced on your comment. 'The real problem is RTD's utterly teenage understanding of relationships of any type: either soppy doomed romances or endless snickering at sexual innuendos.' Can't disagree there. He can be a fine writer and sometimes even the doomed romance work but more often than not it fails. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 137.191.240.163 |
Fair enough back. I did think the one doomed romance that worked was that with Madame de Pompadour. That one snapped a little cog in the machine I use for a heart. | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.140.240.57 |
'I did think the one doomed romance that worked was that with Madame de Pompadour. That one snapped a little cog in the machine I use for a heart.' Yep, that story was very well done. As was the Human Nature one when he became John Smith. Right tearjerker that. Those two written by Stephen Moffet and Paul Cornell though of course. Bodes well for the new series. | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.140.240.57 |
For those that haven't seen it yet here's the first trailer for the new Smith helmed series in the spring. I like the look of it. Seems to show a darker Doctor smacking people in the face and shooting guns. Nothing wrong with that! Very Pertwee influenced i'd say. Not sure about the whole 'Geronimo' catchphrase though. http://www.tvovermind.com/tv-news/doctor-who-season-5-new-trailer/16456 | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.109.39.8 |
I wonder who wrote Matt Smith's brief snatches of dialogue? RTD or Moffat? It rather felt like the first discarded draft written for Tennant's appearance revamped slightly. I'm afraid the two episodes did little for me. Tennant's been in dire need of a companion through these specials, and it's to be hoped the series will be back in balance when it returns regularly. (Thankfully, the woeful Catherine Tate didn't get too big a role in the xmas things.) By the end of the second episode, I was thinking Tennant would never go; it felt like Tony Blair's round the world farewell tour at the end. Much as I've enjoyed a lot of his time (and RTD's), it is indeed right that the Tardis is to be passed on to someone new. And I thought Simm and Timothy Dalton did well with what they'd been given. (Poor Dalton: the return of the Time Lords should have split heaven; instead he got a metal glove and was gone before he'd arrived.) Smith wasn't as immediately engaging as Tennant, but we shall see what happens with the new series . . . TRIFFIDS was slick and boring for the first episode, hampered in the same was as the recent revival of SURVIVORS was by hangovers from 50s society. It got a bit better come the second episode. TURN OF THE SCREW was likewise slick and ultimately uninvolving, though the kids were probably the best I've seen in the roles . . . Oh aye. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Yes, certainly time for a change regarding Dr Who, I think. Just watched the second part, and it was a bit underwhelming. It knew what it wanted to do, but just couldn't get it. The last five minutes were simply RTD saying goodbye to his characters, if you ask me; ultimately pointless, but I can fully understand his self-indulgence. Still, I didn't hate these last two episodes. They were fun but minor when they should have been immense. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Not too sure about the new gibbering Dr and his big square head, though...only time will tell. | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.140.240.57 |
'The last five minutes were simply RTD saying goodbye to his characters, if you ask me; ultimately pointless, but I can fully understand his self-indulgence. ' He did that so much better at the end of Series 4 though. The Time Lords coming back could have been really good if built up to over a whole series. These last few episodes have basically been re-hashing old ideas. Still, onwards and upwards. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
The Time Lords coming back could have been really good if built up to over a whole series I agree completely. I think they fluffed this, and it could (and should) have been great. But, yes, onwards and upwards. Thank you RTD for bringing back a chunk of my childhoos. Now it's someone else's turn to notch it up a bit. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Childhood, even...I wish Santa had given me an edit button. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
Moffat did write the dialogue for the new Doctor (and in Confidential you see that RTD left while they were filming and Moffat came in). And with his very first scene he confirmed that the Doctor could have regenerated into a woman! I'm looking forward to any other mischief he has planned. | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.140.240.57 |
'And with his very first scene he confirmed that the Doctor could have regenerated into a woman!' That would be great. You never know, with any luck we could see Tilda Swinton in the role in a couple of series time! She was my vote for the 11th! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Tilda Swinton would be an absolutely inspired choice. Inspired, I tell thee! | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.202.7 |
No women! This is 'Who. You'll want more bumming next.... gcw | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.140.240.57 |
Tilda Swinton could play the Doctor as a kind of non gender specific ambiguous Jerry Cornelius type traveling in incestuous companionship with the Master and whatever waifs and strays they pick up and discard at their own pleasure along the way. Lashings of bummings of course. I feel thats what the youth of today really need in their primetime genre shows. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"The last five minutes were simply RTD saying goodbye to his characters, if you ask me; ultimately pointless, but I can fully understand his self-indulgence." I think you've got it in one there, Gary. Though I'm less inclined to be sympathetic to said self-indulgence. While it's perhaps a little bit ridiculous to treat Dr Who as if it's a slice of real life, with real characters and real motivations, I found it baffling that the Doctor felt the need to say goodbye to everyone. Even though his appearance and personality will change, he's still the same person, with the same memories, the same strengths, weaknesses, etc. Other Doctors have shared companions (oo-er, missus!), so why should the 10th and 11th be any different? I think RTD possibly got a bit carried away with the successful anxiety the show created in the Doctor when he was briefly human as John Smith. This situation is radically different from that one, however, so ... yes, I think it was going a bit too far, and was probably more a case of RTD saying 'goodbye' than the 10th Doctor. As for those advocating that we get a woman for the role in the future, I wonder if the Beeb would take that chance. They've successfully transformed the 'older man' figure of the Doctor into a younger and more romantic hero, and it's been a winner with the fans, particularly with girls, who rarely watched Who before but apparently now watch it in spades. For the same reason of course, we may see a continuation of the soppy, lovey stuff that certain of us 'older school' fans have a problem with. Not that I do... well, not if the girl's fit. Sorry, really showing my age and era there. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
I don't think it's likely that there will be a female Doctor Who, but I'm glad it's on the record that it's possible. I loved every minute of RTD's tenure. I find that a lot of the things people tend to complain about, especially more grown-up, serious viewers, are things that were deliberately there (e.g. running) or deliberately not there (e.g. explanations) to fulfil what he saw as the function of the programme, the place it has in the BBC schedule, the audience it needed to reach. It was a programme calculated to do a particular job. Given that it's been a ratings and a critical hit, I think in years to come the big question will be how he (and everyone else involved) managed to pull it off, rather than where he went wrong. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.43.214.156 |
Well said Clive! 'That would be great. You never know, with any luck we could see Tilda Swinton in the role in a couple of series time! She was my vote for the 11th!' It is about time we had a woman in the role. Could be great with Tilda Swinton as the doctor. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 160.6.1.47 |
Trailer looks promising. The weeping angels are back! In a dark tunnel. Only lit by a strobe. Eek. I'll die to see a trailer for anything that isn't cut very fast to a male voice choir. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.190.234 |
I'm not a huge Clash fan, but some of their songs really were brilliant, for me: 'White Man in Hammersmith Palais', 'Tommy Gun', 'Complete Control', 'Guns of Brixton', 'Spanish Bombs', 'London Calling', Janie Jones', 'English Civil War', 'Armaggideon Time', 'Jail Guitar Doors', 'Stay Free', 'Police and Thieves', 'I Fought the Law', etc. I was never a big Led Zep fan, frankly! I was more into Velvet Underground and T-Rex and early Tangerine Dream when my mates were trying to persuade me to listen to 'Stairway to Heaven'. I admire some of their songs but they don't inspire much feeling in me, to be honest. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.190.234 |
I didn't mean to put 'Jail Guitars Doors' in there just then, so ignore that please! I was thinking of 'Pressure Drop', 'The Prisoner' and 'Safe European Home'.... dunno why I omitted them. I am avoiding anything new-Who related until the next series is available to watch and judge in its entirety. I can't see Brit telly over here, unfortunately. I've been watching old Avengers (mainly Steed/Peel era) episodes again and, by God, they are still brilliant 40+ years on! Some of the best television ever made, in my opinion. Witty, surreal, suspenseful, sexy, mysterious... all the best things! | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.207.45 |
Huw - the Peel era stuff (particularly the monochrome episodes) were the best, imo. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.190.234 |
I agree, Mick. I watch them over again every couple of years (I do this with Tintin books too), and they never seem to lose their charm. I agree that the black and white episodes are stronger on the whole, but the colour ones were great as well - 'From Venus with Love' and 'The Hidden Tiger' are a couple of my favourites. It's funny to watch some of the fight sequences on DVD, as you can clearly see when stunt doubles are being used! | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.207.45 |
The Peel ear overall is my favourite - I have all the others too, and agree that the colour Peel ones are bloody good as well. Brian Clemens was at FCon last year and said he's doing voiceovers for the release in 2010 or remastered versions - currently wondering if I should start to shift my A&E region 1 discs and buy these new ones as they come out. | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
I agree with Zed about many things: Ta-Ta Doctor Who (Parts 1&2) was fun, but might have been more (MUCH MORE, DAMN IT!), and the explanation of the Time Lords' involvement at all ought to have been massive. The Master's calling of them back was a bit thin; okay, so they have been drumming in his head, but… why? The disappearance of The Master was a loose thread that I hope is addressed with a massive 80-tonne weight dropped on John Sims (preferably in real life). I like the idea of a female Doctor (as well as lashings of bumming) but there remains one key trouble: This is the last rejuvenation. The previous concern was the semi-regeneration a couple of years ago, but that ended-up being a blip. So… to change from Matt Smith to anyone else is going to take a fair bit of heavy-lifting to justify occurring at all, never mind being a female for a change. Led Zep was all ballocks and bombast. The Clash were the only fucking band that matters! Anyone wishing to disagree with the above two statements can step outside where Zed will beat the crap out of them. He will, you know! …and I'll be here quietly sipping my Campari on ice. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
The Doctor can regenerate twelve times, meaning thirteen incarnations - Matt Smith is only the eleventh. Even then, the Master's already on his second cycle of regenerations (at least), so it isn't a hard and fast limit. | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
Aha! I thought we were at the end! Good to know! Bring on the ginger-haired female, then! I would ask how that happens, and how in blazes they think we'll accept the illogic of that… but then I remember these questions' Whovian nature, and surrender myself to the matter. And Zed can still beat up you and your Dad! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Led Zep was all ballocks and bombast. The Clash were the only fucking band that matters! Anyone wishing to disagree with the above two statements can step outside where Zed will beat the crap out of them. He will, you know!<< Well, then, he'll have to beat ME up. Led Zepp were the greatest; The Clash are just a load of old noise. Come on, Zed, let's see you punch an old lady! I wached the end of Who last night and actually enjoyed it. I'll post more of my thoughts on it later, when I have a bit more time (trying to get some work done at the moment), but I did enjoy it. I've also been wondering previously whether Matt Smith is a mistake (too young, too weird looking), but I was impressed with his performance. It reminded me of Sylvester McCoy's ramblings when the Seventh Doc first appeared in Time and the Rani ... (I'll dash off now and leave you all with that thought ) | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Lasdt time I punched an old lady she punched me back. That's the last time I visit my mother... | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.69 |
There's a perfectly logical time for a female Doctor: at the end of his 13 incarnations as a man. He can then use up all his regenerations as a bloke and come back as a Time Lady for 12 regenerations... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Then as a small child. Perhaps a toddler. That would breathe new life into the show. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.10.7.83 |
Perhaps he could be transformed into a politician. No chance of him ever plausibly becoming human for an episode in that scenario. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Perhaps he could come back as a plate of curried walnuts... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
...or a tasty lemon torte. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
... or a stapler with no staples in, on a quest round the universe to find some staples the correct size... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I'd actually watch that. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.191.235 |
Seeing as you enjoyed RTD's run that doesn't actually surprise me. |