| Author | Message | ||
     Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Overrated is a very overrated word. It is not a criticism of anything except other people's taste. It says, "I don't like this as much as other people clearly do so therefore they must ALL be wrong". It does not make any statement about the quality of the subject under discussion. It says more about the person using the word than it does about the book/film/music etc. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
It is a logical impossibility to have a consensus that something is overrated. Overrated is a charge that can only be laid by those in the minority, those who believe the consensus to be wrong. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Underrated is a word that is overrated as having a meaningful meaning, too. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
It's also impossible to have a consensus that any minority view is correct. Is that how we'd like all debate to be settled? Democracy and elective dictatorship are not the same thing. The former is complex but vital, the latter is overrated. I think we should stop trying to objectivise our opinions. I don't feel the need to add the disclaimer IMHO all the time because it should go without saying. 'Overrated' has the advantage of meaning exactly what it says, while other over-used adjectives ('pretentious' is a striking example) are often ambiguous and easy to use dishonestly. Hollywood blockbusters are pretentious in that they claim a universality and emotional connection they have not earned. Difficult art films are not pretentious because they are difficult. If they are pretentious, it is not because they are difficult. However, at a rough guess fewer than 1% of online opinion-mongers use the word 'pretentious' as anything other than a synonym for 'difficult'. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"Hollywood blockbusters are pretentious in that they claim a universality and emotional connection they have not earned..." I hope I can add "some" at the front of that, Joel! | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
"I think we should stop trying to objectivise our opinions." But that's exactly what "overrated" does. It objectifies your own opinion and claims it to be more valid than everyone else's. | ||
| Clive (Clive) Username: Clive Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 86.142.184.215 |
Ha! Oh well, if i must... 'That is probably down to the overrated* derivative Alex Garland' *Disclaimer: This is solely the opinion of my self and i understand that to be the case in all matters pertaining to art in whatever form it takes. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
'Pretentious' is more often used to mean pompous or intellectual*, as opposed to difficult. *where 'intellectual' is a 'bad' thing in the speaker's opinion. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
This discussion reminds me (in an interesting way rather than a negative one) with the minutiae of he meaning of words entailed in Lord Goldsmith's evidence to the Iraq Enquiry that I am listening to as I write this. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Reminds me of not with. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
It seems we went to war based on the very fine tuning of the nuances of the meaning of words, i.e. as a back-up to what the consensus of the cabinet wanted to do in the first place, a consensus that was either 'bullied' into being or was a genuine consensus. Don't the use of the words 'overrated' or 'underrated' depend on an opinion on how others rate something, i.e. rating it either as a-population-of-interestedparties consensus or as a result of some other assumption as to intention? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
So, Des, about my beloved Liszt being overrated . . . | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.23.22 |
'I don't like this as much as other people clearly do so therefore they must ALL be wrong' Your problem being...? ;) I think it's ok to say overrated if you believe it. If you feel you see a steady flow of good reviews and you feel deep in your gut 'hang on...' then go with it. There are more Homer Simpsons in the world than Einsteins. Er, so to speak. Pretentious is when things feel like they're done to be interesting, but are meaningless. It's empty styling and seriousness. Intellectual can sound like a criticism but isn't; it's actually a good thing. A good fun blockbuster can be intellectual too, though not many try. I think 2012 had depth as did the likes of Robocop. We are sometimes fooled into thinking a piece is intellectual - take the recent Doubt with Phillip Seymour Hoffman; it seems smart on the surface but has as much to say as a Hallmark TVM, is actually pretty broad. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Apparently Liszt once teamed up with Chopin. They wrote a concerto to help you remember what you needed when you went to the market for your food... They called it the Chopin-Liszt concerto. I'll get me coat. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
To answer Gary's point, this is a discussion on the fine-tuning of the meaning of 'overrated', a close-ordered consideration that was not in my mind when I made that knowingly provocative comments a few years ago on this very forum. Looking at my contemporaneous notes, however, I see that I was judging that Liszt is one of the most famous composers (incontravertible) and, at the same time, I found I didn't like his music (in general). Therefore there was a mismatch. As well as needing to form an opinion about how others rate Liszt, I also needed an opinion myself about Liszt. Two opinions of mine as a benchmark to each other. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
'Pretetntious' now seems to have these possible separate meanings: difficult, pompous, intellectual, meaningless.... Some may even say this discussion is pretentious. Is there a dfference beween 'pretension' and 'pretentiousness'. Hmmmm | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.23.22 |
The clue is there - pretending. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Yes, I agree, 'pretentious' is always used derogatorily, stemming from its root of pretension. But it is just an opinion like overrated, with the latter being benchmarked opinions rather than a single one. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
root of pretension ... or pretence? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.23.22 |
I had a friend who used to like pretentious things. They were her guilty pleasures, like chocolate, or video nasties. People forget that we can be quite forgiving of fault, or watch things ironically, despite themselves. That's why sometimes it bugs me that people think people watch certain programmes seriously, things like Big Brother or X Factor. They think the audiences are being dumb when really they can just as equally be filtering humanity or some other qualities from them. Me - I laugh like a drain at Who's Been Framed. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Yes, Tony. And I draw philosophical conclusions from Big Brother .... seriously. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
One of the problems with "overrated" is it leads to polarisation of opinions. If you watch a film and think it's quite good but not great, but everyone else seems to think it's the best thing ever, you start by saying "It's overrated, it's just OK" then rapidly move on to listing all the reasons you don't believe it to be as good as other people say, and this leads to having more negatives than positives about the film and you move from "It's quite good" to "It's crap". I've been guilty of this more than a few times and I really do try not to do it any more. I try to see the entertainment value in a film before looking for the negative points. After all if the consensus is that something is fantastic, maybe it's just me missing the point. Of course sometimes I do hate something from the outset that everyone thinks is great in which case I just have to accept that other people's taste is different to mine(and not as good). | ||
| Chris_morris (Chris_morris) Username: Chris_morris Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 12.165.240.116 |
It's one thing to agree with a consensus and another to submit to groupthink. In a democratic society, citizens should always be wary of any point of view that discourages dissent. Otherwise they risk the fate of lemmings. To be true to oneself, one must wage a constant battle: Do you hold an opinion because you arrived at that conclusion yourself? Or did you get that opinion secondhand? Are you sheep or shepherd? Are you being led? Look hard enough and you'll find that consensuses are evil things, intractable, omnivorous, poisonous. Their influence spreads faster than disease. See one coming, run the other way. Zappa: It's not just that the emperor has no clothes. It's that the emperor never has any clothes. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Further to my earlier comments, one of Lord Goldsmith's summarising comments (as I interpret it) was to refer to the importance regarding the nuance of language in UN Resolutions -- an importance, in a perfect world, that should not have been important at all in determining the outbreak of a war. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Look hard enough and you'll find that consensuses are evil things, intractable, omnivorous, poisonous. ============================== Indeed, but how can one govern without consensus? To use the word 'overrated', one must at least infer a consensus that you are judging one's own opinion against. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.23.22 |
With regards the Iraqi war; the kurds were actually pretty damned glad we went. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.23.22 |
I heard this thing recently that said the Spartans made decisions on who shouted the loudest. Was that listening to determination? Passion for a thing? It's interesting. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 95.83.208.83 |
I think a million people marching on a capital city is a pretty loud voice, Tony. And the ends do not justify the means. Some good may have come out of invading Iraq, but it was at the expense of damaging due process, democracy and human rights. The legal system doesn't always work, but it's there for a good reason. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
But a legal system that can be twisted by interpretation of nuances is an overrated system? Todays Enquiry was both fascinating and frightening. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.16.84.5 |
Meh. This whole thread is highly overrated. Why? No posts by me yet. Oh, wait - NOW it's underrated!  | ||
| Steveduffy (Steveduffy) Username: Steveduffy Registered: 05-2009 Posted From: 86.156.102.61 |
Des, here's Brian Eno's take on "pretension", which you might find of interest - I certainly do! Quote follows: Pretension is the dismissive name given to people's attempts to be something pther than what they 'really are'. It is vilified in England in particular because we are so suspicious of people trying to 'rise above their station'. In the arts, the word 'pretentious' has a special meaning: the attempt at something that the critic thinks you have no right even to try. I'm very happy to have added my little offering to the glowing mountain of things described as 'pretentious' - I'm happy to have made claims on things that I didn't have any 'right' to, and I'm happy to have tried being someone else to see what it felt like. I decided to turn the word 'pretentious' into a compliment. The common assumption is that there are 'real' people and there are others who are pretending to be something they're not. There is also an assumption that there's something morally wrong with pretending. My assumptions about culture as a place where you can take psychological risks without incurring physical penalties make me think that pretending is the most important thing we do. It's the way we make our thought experiments, find out what it would be like to be otherwise. Robert Wyatt once said that we were always in the condition of children - faced with things we couldn't understand and thus with the need to guess and improvise. Pretending is what kids do all the time. It's how they learn. What makes anyone think that you should sometime give it up? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.23.22 |
Steve - that's excellent. I'm won round. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.141 |
Pretension is the dismissive name given to people's attempts to be something pther than what they 'really are'. It is vilified in England in particular because we are so suspicious of people trying to 'rise above their station'. Yes, I agree completely. If people try new things in art and succeed, they're called geniuses; if they try and fail, they're called pretentious. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
I agree with Brian Eno, and not only because he's a family friend of my wife's family.  | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Thanks for the Eno quote, Steve, by the way. It has stirred me to write this short confessional: I am pretentious for drawing philosophical meaning from TV shows such as Big Brother and Deal or No Deal. I am pretentious for publishing 'Nemonymous' with its experimental ethos. I am pretentious for wallowing in neologisms over the years. I am pretentious for making real-time reviews of books. I am pretentious for writing and blogging my previously published (as well as new) fictions: i.e. those textured execises in something I pretentiously define as indefinable. I am even pretentious enough to believe that I would have had many more books published if I had gone out of my way actually to make fiction submissions to publishers and I would now be more famous than the most famous writers of all and that, when I am dead, people will value my work far more than while I remain alive. I am pretentious enough to write all the above without truly believing any of it. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
It seems so damned appropriate: the title of this thread. Thanks, Weber. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 89.204.239.156 |
"I am pretentious for drawing philosophical meaning from TV shows such as Big Brother and Deal or No Deal" Ooh, do say, Des! DEAL OR NO DEAL is life, isn't it? Ultimately random: a fulfilling sexual relationship in one box, lymphoma in another. I think BIG BROTHER is an allegory for the formation of the Prussian Empire. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
I think BIG BROTHER is an allegory for the formation of the Prussian Empire. ======================= Indeed, it has teased out many interesting points regarding meta-drama, the pseudo-real, nemotions etc. as well as making one more perceptive about people and their (mis)intentions and failings - and their positive points when none first seemed apparent --- plus just the enjoyable froth of a provocative games show, itself with some serious failings as well as evoking sharp observations on life and our own sporty, serious and/or tongue-in-cheek loyalties and dislikes about the presented (often crude and despicable) ciphers of people. Thoughts for a crumbling generation. I feel both positive and negative about such considerations, neither condemning or praising, but somehow wiser (I hope) after the event. It's not serious, of course, but it also *is* serious somehow, and revelatory. I'd go further. To become a writer, one must possibly first watch Big Brother as that's where the best writing's done. A uniquely dramatic masterclass-on-the-hoof, simultaneously ingenuous and disingenuous. Simultaneously collective and individual. And so many other latent riches about modern humanity (whatever one's view about it) as examined under the meta-fictionalised camera obscura. Revelling in vulnerability.... I feel sad that it will all be over after the 2010 Summer series, like closing the covers of a favourite book after finally finishing it with a sigh of satisfaction at its crystallisation of insight. It's Prussianization of the Noumenon. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
It's --> Its | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.30.139 |
Don't be Prussian blue, Des. We still have late-night quiz TV, the only mesmerising piece of art extant on television. One of the last places where we can find stillness. It confronts us with an unchanging image, demanding that we contemplate it until it yields meaning. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
I sense you have your tongue in your cheek, Proto, while I have my cheek in my tongue. Tonight's episode of Celebrity Big Brother... Very weird and memorable. Apparently all parties involved found the wicker-animal masquerade menacing. The one human being (Stephanie), too, caught up in the alienation and angst. All that -- together with Vinnie's magnificent emotional 'reality' at lunchtime (causing Dane to question the very state of their psyches after being in the House for so long vis a vis that 'reality') -- represents for me the optimum form of what I was talking about above:- "A master-class-on-the hoof ....Simultaneously collective and individual.... revelling in vulnerability." | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.13.165 |
God help me, but I'm serious Des! | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.13.165 |
Over-rated: - Chinese food - The 1990s - The Third Man - Children | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.167.138 |
The 1990s and children, yes. The Third Man I haven't seen in a while, so I'd have to watch it again. But... Chinese food, overrated?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.13.165 |
Sorry Simon, it's either unrecognisable matter or, worse still, all too recognisable animal parts. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.13.165 |
I'm really serious about quiz tv. It's a piece of installation art in your living room. The repeated phrases, the random images held (like a shot from Kubrick) far beyond the point of boredom and elevates you onto a landing in your mind you'd never explored before. Under-rated: - late-night quiz telly. - Soup. Over-rated: - Peter Jackson's THE LOVELY BONES. (it already feels like a civic duty to watch it) - skateboards. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.13.165 |
That Big Brother sounds good, Des. I've been waiting years for Vinnie Jones to have his nervous breakdown, but it might happen the other way - maybe he'll turn everyone else into granite puppy-rending machines with full stops for pupils. Maybe being physically liberated and intellectually and emotionally castrated is the way to go. Maybe we'll all be soldiers one day. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.13.165 |
Over-rated: - Knightrider (how did that happen?) | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.0.179 |
Under-rated: - niceness. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
I've been waiting years for Vinnie Jones to have his nervous breakdown. ================= Based on some benchmarks of reality, he did - publicly - while pretending to act (as the actor that he is would act it) that he was role-playing a nervous breakdown. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
Overrated - the use of language to capture what we truly mean (it's a tin drum we beat for bears to dance to while all the while we long to move the stars to pity - GF). | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.102.36 |
So, Over-rated: -Art. Under-rated: - Science. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
Mebbe, but the bear enjoys dancing to the tin drum of art more. It seems to be more about being a bear than all the other stuff. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Can we change the title of this thread to "Talking Shite"? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
Flaubert not your bag, then? I look forward to your next copy-pasted Google joke/observation thread. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Weber, It's an overrated thread, true, but there is much valuable food for thought upon it, I feel. You deserve thanks for benchmarking it with optimum fine-tuning. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.167.138 |
Over-rated: Curry. (Lights blue touchpaper and retires to a safe distance) | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
Best---wick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.181.152.177 |
Over-rated: Curry. Noooooooooooooo! | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Curry (if 'curry' here means an official madras or vindaloo or jalfrezi etc) is over-rated but only in the sense that one can copiously smother any meal with various favourite spices and one doesn't have to wait for particular formal 'curry' set-pieces to enjoy a curry-like experience.. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
I must remember to tell that to those lads sitting at the next table in my local - yes, that's them: those who smell of lager and are singing songs about women. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.181.152.177 |
I was in Birmingham earlier this week and we went for a meal at Jimmy Spice's - never heard of it before (although I now find there's one quite near me) which serves, buffet style, Indian, Chinese, Thai and Italian food - all beautifully cooked in a big kitchen island in the middle of the restaurant and very tasty. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.181.152.177 |
...and it's not overrated! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
You mean the council tax is reasonable in that area? | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Tonight's episode of Celebrity Big Brother... Very weird and memorable. Apparently all parties involved found the wicker-animal masquerade menacing. ========================== In retrospect, it was almost as if a spirit (not Nikola's, not even Davina's) took over that duck costume, as un-tethered spirits had also taken over the other costumes. That's why it was so menacing as a piece of TV (akin to the effects of 'Ghostwatch'?) | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
Like I said, can we change the title of this thread to 'Talking Shite' please? | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
I'd be amenable to that change. After all, an intrinsic *part* of creative 'brainstorming' is talking shite in the hope that it sparks off elements of non-shite, to put it broadly. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
But, of course, you could counter-claim that such brainstorming techniques are overrated. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.0.114.254 |
Wouldn't there be a potential plagiarism problem, Weber? We surely at least ought to ask permission before borrowing the title of your autobiography. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
There's no copyright on titles. Don't worry. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.141 |
A single frame of BB unnerved me last night. Some sort of porcelin head silently screaming, sprouting from someone's bed on an infra-red camera. "4" are going to have a Channel 4 night. You, know, with interesting telly. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
A single frame of BB is enough to make me switch the peurile crap off. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.238.221 |
Being underrated is overrated. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
That's why it was so menacing as a piece of TV (akin to the effects of 'Ghostwatch'?) ==================================== Carl Ford (editor of 'Dagon') has had this to say on Facebook; "Yes, I agree, that sequence was rather surreal - when the housemates all started crowding around and the duck entity started paddling away through the rooms the scene reminded me of someone who had been tarred and feathered (for sorcery?) and was trying to escape the accusers. Also reminiscent of The Wicker Man ending with Edward Woodward having userped the role and costume of The Fool/Punch character and pursued by the pagans." | ||
| Nathaniel Tapley (Natt) Username: Natt Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 89.240.59.35 |
I thought Vinnie's comment when the Davina-chicken was in the garden was very revealing: "I did. I found it disturbing. That's why I wanted to hit it." Combined with his constant suggestions that they 'clothesline it' shows what a lovely human he is. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
BB is possibly the only thing in the universe that is objectively speaking - overrated. No matter how low your opinion of it is - it IS worse than that. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Can anything ever be that objective? I have no brief for BB. I just draw conclusions from it as a phenomenon close to the Horror genre - and someone reacently recognised that with 'Dead Set'. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
I just assumed that was Charlie Brooker calling everyone who watches BB a brainless zombie... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
And the answer to your question is Yes it can. But only BB. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Intentional Fallacy re Brooker. DEAD SET stands on its own, in my view, as a testament to Horror and to BB. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Is it me or have you all gone completely mad? I've just read this thread through and I can't understand a word of it!  I did, however, see a picture of Davina Somebody on the internet today with a chicken's head - something to do with BB (which I don't watch - tried it once, couldn't believe the depths TV had sunk to). I thought it looked pretty damn scary - like the giant rabbit which accompanies the protagonist everywhere in Donnie Darko.  | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 95.83.205.198 |
I don't think BB is actually set on Earth, but in a dimension that actually looks like cheap videotape. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 95.83.205.198 |
What a coup! I don't know how they managed to do it, but the BB people have arranged Mars and the Moon to be within a few degrees of each other to mark tonight's eviction. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Yes, thanks to Nick Royle's Twitter announcement, I've viewed that in the sky tonight from here on the North East Essex coast. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.127.146 |
I can report that the same vision bejewels the sky over Dublin. Any reports from further afield? | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.145.130 |
Astroligically speaking, planets and stars over-rate us with their Houses, Transits, Ascendant, Mid-Heaven and Moon's Node. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.127.146 |
Our little earth, turning like a restless sleeper under its shadow. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.158.59.56 |
As Above, So Below. Astrology is not cause and effect. But synchronicity. Allegri's Miserere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71jgMx0Mxc | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.12.247 |
"Astrology is not cause and effect. But synchronicity." Jung was interested in both astrology and synchronicity, so I'm guessing that this was his idea? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.12.247 |
What would it do to all of our fates if there was a murder in heaven? An unmapped asteroid loomed from the blackness and collided with one of the planets. For decades we'd watch Mars spilling its entrails across the sky. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.158.59.56 |
Yes, Jung was big on synchroncity and Astrology. I once practised Astrological Harmonics in the Seventies with startling results. I apply the same considerations to literature: 'The Synchronised Shards of Random Truth and Fiction" (the second sub-title of 'Weirdmonger' (Prime Books 2003)). | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 217.43.29.178 |
This is true: I was going to say that I had a dream last night, but that may be untrue. It is better described perhaps as a dream having me. I was in a passenger-lift in what I assumed to be a tall building – rising upward by the feel of it. Somehow, I knew that the channel or tunnel-cavity through which the lift rose (and was presumably later to fall) was still being built. When I reached what I sensed to be the top of a building, the lift entered the open air, now upon a track – more like a funicular railway than a lift proper. In the misty gloom, I noticed a child standing by this track and – again with an assumption that the dream gave me rather than being generated by my own mind – I knew the child was associated with those who happened to be building the ever-upward course of the lift. Unaccountably, at that point, the name of a new writer of Weird or Horror fiction (the name of someone I had seen hanging about on the Internet and with whom I had even exchanged communication on forums) became fixated in my mind. Not a fixation upon the writer himself (well, I’ve never met him so far) but upon his name. Quite a strange combination of names. Three words in the overall name. I looked behind after I had travelled a little further and the ‘child’ by the lift-track was rearing up and roaring like a wild animal. It was then the dream stopped dreaming me. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.12.247 |
I hope all this is clearing everything up for you, Caroline. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.157.25.171 |
Sorry, 'rising upward' seems a trifle tautologous.  | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>I hope all this is clearing everything up for you, Caroline.<< Yes, Proto, I've realised now I've stumbled across you all in the middle of some kind of mass hallucinatory experience.  | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.153.237.251 |
That was a real dream, Caroline. And a real name. PS: The synchronised shards of random truth and fiction on this thread seem to cover, inter alia, Celebrity Big Brother, the Iraq Enquiry, Astronomy, Astrology, meaning of 'Overrated' (consensus, benchmarking), Liszt, meaning of 'Pretentious', shite (brainstorming), Prussianization, the nature of Curry, Jung.... | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.146.233 |
On this thread's CBB sub-thread, I accidentally heard Stephen Boyd early this morning on Radio 4's 'Sunday' programme being interviewed. He seemd to be saying that he enjoyed exposing people (who would otherwise be thought to be impervious to his religion) to the Lord and the Bible. He mentioned Stephanie Beacham's amenable reaction (and, incidentally, I shall personally remember forever her reaction in the Diary Room where she appeared to be rabbit-punched in the chakras time and time again by her vision of the Bible). But more significantly, Stephen seemed to imply this morning that Alex Reid's speaking the Prayer of Salvation on the programme itself led to his winning CBB. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.146.233 |
Sorry, that should be Stephen Baldwin, not Stephen Boyd. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>That was a real dream, Caroline. And a real name.<< Yes, Des, I realise that. I was referring to the whole thread. Proto was asking me if things were becoming clearer to me following my comment further up the thread saying I couldn't understand a word of it!  By the way, who's the author? You know what I'm like for weird fiction. If there's a new writer out there, I'd like to try him! If you don't want to put it on this thread, email me (let me know if you don't have my email address any more). | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.159.146.233 |
I've emailed you, Caroline. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Thanks, I'll take a look. |