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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 62.254.173.34
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 01:09 pm:   

Anyone else think David Cameron's looking more and more like Michael Schumacher with every appearance?
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 01:29 pm:   

I think he's looking more and more worried. Like Newcastle United under that huffy little git Kevin Keegan, I think he's going to blow a massive lead...

Brown came off as having much more substance, for me. Again.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.73.248.35
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 01:44 pm:   

'Anyone else think David Cameron's looking more and more like Michael Schumacher with every appearance?'

Don't know about that but he looked like a very worried man. Angry almost.

Nick Clegg was eloquent, calm and expressed himself well.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 01:55 pm:   

They make me think of salesmen at an exhibition trying to compete with virtually identical products – market research having proved that changing the product is not a good way to improve the brand's profile: changing the presentation has far more impact. The Tories are doing own brand Thatcherism, Labour and the Lib Dems are doing their own generic versions in slightly different-shaped boxes.

Meanwhile, TUSC and other socialist inititives are subject to a media blackout in order to foster the illusion that the British public are not interested in challenging the casino capitalism and corporate greed that have brought us the worst global recession in living memory – or in protecting the NHS from being pirated and destroyed by the private sector.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.73.248.35
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 01:59 pm:   

'Meanwhile, TUSC and other socialist inititives are subject to a media blackout in order to foster the illusion that the British public are not interested in challenging the casino capitalism and corporate greed that have brought us the worst global recession in living memory – or in protecting the NHS from being pirated and destroyed by the private sector.'

That about sums it up.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 01:59 pm:   

I still think Labour represents the lesser evil – but only in the sense that it's better to have gonorrhoea than syphilis.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.146.59.50
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 02:10 pm:   

I'm surprised anyone bothers watching or listening to these professional liars. Yet I was horrified to read, though not surprised, the Daily Mail's attack on Clegg on issues of patriotism, and an apparent Nazi slur on Britain.

I have no interest in Clegg, though for personally selfish reasons I'd like to see him win in order to watch Cameron's reptilian countenance drop in stupendous awe of how close he came to being PM.

The Mail's article attacked Clegg over an article he had written many years back, in which he countered the long-held (customary it seems now) opinion over Britain's 'bravery' and 'heroic fight' against the Nazi's.

Obviously the normal right-wing tactic of rallying support under the guise of Royal Britannia, etc, etc.

Winston Churchill's family were thrown in for good measure.

Churchill???? The man who banned Polish pilots from taking part in the end of war celebrations, after they were mainly responsible for turning the tide of the Battle of Britain, of which the RAF are the only organisation/body who recognise this fact? That Churchill? The same man with Roosevelt who handed over Poland on a plater to Stalin. The man who helped carve up Europe, and then famously went on to declare an 'Iron Curtain' had fallen. To quote the great Bill Hicks again, 'Yes, thanks to you, you fucker."

Wild random digression over.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.68
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 02:19 pm:   

I'm hoping for a hung parliament. And as the gag goes: which MP do we start with...?
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.68
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 02:21 pm:   

On a more serious note, the emergence of Nick Clegg and the LibDems does offer a serious chance for change. I know so many people who would like to vote for them who are only now thinking that it may be worth doing so, without fear of letting one of the other two bully-boy parties back.

Clegg's getting stick for being too leftwing in the papers, today, I see.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.68
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 02:23 pm:   

Fran, fair as your comments are, the further we are from WW2, the more Churchill becomes the legend. In future centuries, his existence may be as questionable as King Arthur's, but just as much a part of the 'Matter of Britain'.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 02:44 pm:   

I still think Labour represents the lesser evil – but only in the sense that it's better to have gonorrhoea than syphilis.

Aye. That just about sums up my position, too.

Btw, does Clegg even shave yet? And who styles Cameron's hair? I'd rather have a grizzled bully running my country than a wet-arsed little boy. Seriously: these are hard times. We need a bit of a cunt in power not a camera-hogging softie.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.146.52.48
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 02:48 pm:   

Mark - too true, mate. I think that unfortunately will be the case. I'm not thinking in shades of black and white, but I do think we need to engage not with revisionist history, but with truthful history.

The King Arthur comparisons are apt. What I worry about more it that Thatcher will be viewed along the same lines, though I'm not talking about future centuries, but merely decades.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 03:38 pm:   

I've sat through both debates in their entirety (for my sins) and think Nick Clegg is wiping the floor with the other two by staying calm and unruffled, driving his points home with conviction and portraying himself, and his party, as a seriously credible alternative - at last!

Brown appears confident and statesmanlike and is doing better than I expected, especially on the all-important economy, while Cameron appears nervous and unsure of himself with consistently the most waffley, pathetic answers - always harking back to what the Tories believe are their strongest points (caps on immigration, discipline in our schools, stiffer sentences for criminals, blah, blah, blah...).

Judged on body language, presentability and control of their tempers alone (everyone else does it) the same order applies: Clegg (charming and intelligent), Brown (stern but purposeful), Cameron (shifty and nervous).

I know who I'd be voting for if I lived across the water. Don't even ask me about the sad excuses for politicians we're stuck with here!!
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.72
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 03:41 pm:   

i'm mellowing as I get older. When I was younger I hungered for Thatcher's death. Now when she passes, I'll shrug and be uspet someone's died.

And this from the same person who went through the miners' strike up close...!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 03:45 pm:   

Sorry, Mark, but I'm still with Morrissey...
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.72
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 03:48 pm:   

You charming man, Steve.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 03:56 pm:   

Steve, the only one of the three who strikes me as having any intelligence is Brown. If people could get past the fact that his personality is crippled, they'd see that he's the only one who has anything of (slight)substance to say. The other two are performing monkeys - all faux charm and smooth hair.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.72
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 03:57 pm:   

I think Cameron did so poorly in the first debate because he suddenly realised what a mistake it was inviting Nick Clegg on and he could see a hung parliament looming. A friend of mine told me that a pre-teen lad she was baby sitting wanted to know why Schumacher was on telly with the Prime Minister.

Clegg was always going to struggle last night - his stance on Europe is at odds with the way I suspect most Brits think - so I think he's done really well to stay in the game. He does look like the manager of a Carphone Warehouse branch though.

Brown comes across as a prop forward (whose team are facing relegation) turning up to deliver an after dinner speech only to find someone's nicked his drink.

Hey Zed, will you vote? My encumbant MP is Labour, in his 70th year, and bleating for more money (to attract better people to the job - so presumably not himself) and an extra free parking sticker for use throughout Kirklees, so I'll be voting LibDem here, in the hope of unseating him and delivering a hung parliament.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.72
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 03:59 pm:   

That's assuming my postal voting form turns up.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 04:02 pm:   

Yeah, I'll be voting Labour. Lesser of three evils. I'm voting for the party, though, not the man. The other two main parties don't seem to have a firm policy on anything.

Brown looks tired. He needs a rest. I can't help but quite like the bloke, though, and I'm not sure why.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 04:05 pm:   

I will add that I'm do dissatisfied with party politics right now I'd actually vote for anyone who could get me a blow job off Angelina Jolie.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.248
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 04:08 pm:   

Brown looks tired. He needs a rest. I can't help but quite like the bloke, though, and I'm not sure why.

================
He looks to me as if he is the sort of person who is an avid reader of Gary McMahon fiction.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 04:17 pm:   

Interesting remarks about World War 2.

You're right of course, in suggesting Poland was grievously let down, and its invasion by Nazi Germany was Britain's casus belli.

However, are you implying that in 1945, given that the Soviets had occupied the whole of Eastern Europe, and half of Germany, that Britain should have pushed on and declared war against the USSR unless it got out of Poland?

I can accept the moral argument, and agree with it, but even with the Americans, Canadians included, Soviet troops on that front outnumbered all others by a factor of over two to one. It would have been nearly impossible to liberate Poland from Soviet occupation.

To state categorically that "Churchill handed over Poland to Stalin on a plater" seems to me well, a bit of an exaggeration.

Mark S.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 04:58 pm:   

I've always felt quite ambivalent about Winston Churchill and his reputation - he was perhaps the greatest self-publicist of the 20th Century and a man of highly questionable morals but he did offer to reunite Ireland only for that fecker De Valera to turn him down... how different things could have been.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.233.235
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 04:58 pm:   

It is an exaggeration, aimed at the people who exaggerate Britain's role in WWII. And I don't think Britain should have pushed on and declared war against USSR, but the fact remains that Churchill, alongside Roosevelt stood by and did nothing. But if you look at my post further down, I did say I'm not really dealing in black and white. I exaggerate because there are still too many flag-waving bigots who shout everybody else down for daring to 'quibble' over the real facts of WWII. But this is a criticism that could also be levelled at many other countries.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.233.235
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 05:01 pm:   

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Churchill and High Command embraced the Polish, and other Central European and East European pilots into the fight, but basically had no problem appeasing Stalin by washing their hands of them once they'd served their purpose.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.233.235
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 05:12 pm:   

I'll make another rather erroneous statement: it's like a number of high profile persons of the 1960's denying reports of 67 million Russians having died, many through Collectivisation, simply because such information didn't tally with their image, idealogy and political viewpoints. People like Sartre, for example.

Okay, a touch rash, again exgaggerated, but I hate the way history is airbrushed to make it easier to digest, especially in a country like Britain, where refusal to accept certain historical persons validty in assuring national pride, etc, is done at the expense of truth.

Yes, I know, I am a dreamer.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 05:19 pm:   

It's interesting, isn't it? The tendency you identify is very, very much ingrained in the English (rather than British) national consciousness. There's a long tradition of English history being formed on the splendid of our "splendid" isolation and special destiny. It's difficult for us to see ourselves in the wider terms of European history.

I blame Henry VIII.

Mark S.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.229.237
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 05:25 pm:   

Exactly. The pride we take in such despicable persons, their actions overlooked, even built upon, makes me wonder out loud sometimes...has almost cost me a trip to the hospital.

And yes, it is a very English thing, but there are also plenty of countries who relish their tarnished past with almost equally perverse pride.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 07:49 pm:   

He looks to me as if he is the sort of person who is an avid reader of Gary McMahon fiction.

Des, that made me laugh out loud, my friend. Wonderful stuff.
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.237.52
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 08:56 pm:   

I see it like this....

Labour - Tired now, had its day for a while. We will not kickstart the economy by making people pay more tax & VAT.

Conservative - Cuts will not fire up the economy.

Lib/Dems - Clegg talks positively. He talks of investment. I believe the more investment is made in the Country & in people, the more chance we have to drag our way out of the doldrums.

Equally, he could be totally wrong, but I am prepared to have faith in him, so Clegg will get my vote.

This time.

gcw
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.249.124
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 10:40 pm:   

The Lib Dems are promising more vicious public service cuts than even the Tories.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.249.124
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 10:42 pm:   

There hasn't been a Labour government since 1979, GCW. If New Labour is tired (and it is) that's because all it has done for 13 years is recycle the discredited policies of Thatcherism.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 11:23 pm:   

Joel, as someone whose political opinion (as a true socialist) I respect, what do you think would be the likeliest result of a hung parliament/Lib-Lab pact?

Good or bad?
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 11:55 pm:   

On the subject of a "proper" Labour government I think it's fair to say that there have been those on the "far" left who have accused all past Labour governments of selling out on socialist principles.

It's not as if Harold Wilson, for example, didn't come in for accusations of that sort.

Moreover, even when one looks back at the "classic" reforming Labour government of 1945, you're still looking at a government, for example, that signed the country up for its own nuclear weapons, had no provision for racial or gender equality, and firmly kept in place legislation that made homosexuality a criminal act.

The closest I can think of, when it comes to the possibility of what Joel (correct me if I'm wrong) might have in mind was if the Labour Party of 1983 had got in.

To get socialism, in a parlimentary democracy, then you need enough of the electorate to actually vote for socialism.

Mark S.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 12:05 am:   

And, moreover, when it comes to the 45 Labour Government, don't mention the Korean war.



Mark S.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.178.234
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 12:35 am:   

It might be a blessing that Michael Foot isn't around to see this.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.189
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 08:30 am:   

Zed - I like Brown, too. He feels like a human being and in it for the country, not some weird score-settling thing. In the end it's these feelings we go by, not so much what they say.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.101.119
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 01:00 pm:   

If we went by what they say, none of them would get in.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 02:22 pm:   

He feels like a human being and in it for the country, not some weird score-settling thing

Tony, you've actuallu managed to clarify my feelings on the man. That's exactly why I quite like him: he posseses a kind of beleaguered humanity.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 02:27 pm:   

Brown is unquestionably a strong leader with a rigid view of the way ahead for the country but it is his stubborn inflexibility, tendency to lose his temper when challenged and puritanical moralising that lets him down as an effective Prime Minister. Brown has more in common with Thatcher than Blair ever did and Tony was so right to hang on as long as he did because I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall for Labour once Gordon took over and got the messianic bit between his teeth... I think the humbling of having to work with Clegg & the Lib-Dems would be good for him and good for the country!
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 03:04 pm:   

Just so long as it puts paid to the notion of identity cards.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 03:13 pm:   

Our area is Lib Dem, with the Tories not far behind. Labour got just 12% of the vote here in 2005, so I'm going for the Lib Dems, partly because they're the least off-putting of the parties and have done a very good job indeed locally, but also because I really don't want the Tories in.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 03:13 pm:   

In fact I voted this morning...
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.74.96.200
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 05:39 pm:   

Surely the best way of judging Gordon Brown is on his record, not on the fact he may seem to be a nice bloke.

The doubling of the lowest rate of taxation comes immediately to mind.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 05:41 pm:   

I'm with you, Ramsey, identity cards would be the last straw for me too as far as the Nanny State goes. They say it wouldn't be compulsory to carry one but we all know they'd make it so damn inconvenient not to that we'd all be forced to comply in the end. Down with Big Government controlling us through fear and let's see a return to compassionate, common sense, co-operative community spirit!!
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 06:12 pm:   

Sigh. Mark, I'm certainly not judging the man on him being a nice bloke (I didn't say he was, btw; further up the thread I said he was a cunt).
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.248
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2010 - 06:27 pm:   

Gordon told me he loved RAIN DOGS.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 12:32 am:   

Des: bet he doesn't like Jilted John.

Mark S.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 02:42 am:   

Interestingly, or perhaps not, I.D. cards were also a feature of the 45 "classic" Labour Government.

I'll get my coat.



Mark S.
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Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus)
Username: Rhysaurus

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 212.219.233.223
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 11:53 am:   

Which party is going to leave me alone the most? That's my criteria for voting. I don't want governments to do things "for" or "against" me. I just want the maximum non-interference.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.176.101
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 08:34 pm:   

Mark, it's true that socialists have criticised previous Labour governments for not delivering on their promises (especially where Clause 4 of the Labour party constitution was concerned), but I hardly think that's the same as transforming the Party's constitution and manifesto commitments into something that makes the Health government look left-wing. As PM, Blair declared proudly: "I have stripped the Labour Party of everything it thought it believed in." He declared war on the overwhelming majority of his own party's members and won.

Stevie, I recently heard the prospects for a hung parliament compared to the power-sharing executive in Northern Ireland: a hung parliament would focus on supporting the interests of business. Since the three main parties have 90% the same policies, finding common ground won't be difficult. It might be less vicious than a Tory majority government, but not by much.

I gather, in any case, that the Lib Dems have ruled out a coalition with Labour but not one with the Tories. Which makes their claim to be to the left of New Labour look rather weak.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 10:59 pm:   

Joel, oh I don't know about that.

The Militant Tendency (for example) had been accusing the Labour Party of betrayal of its core principles since way, way, way before Blair.

Back then, of course, it wasn't the abolition of Clause 4 that caused them to argue the Labour Party wasn't really socialist, but that it did not implement Clause 4.

Mark S.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 11:05 pm:   

Oops. I think you're making the same point, and I've misread your post.

Mark S.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 12:29 am:   

Joel, I think Clegg's comments today were clever electioneering to avoid the Lib-Dems looking weak and already hand-in-glove with Labour which might put many wavering Tory voters off. If a hung parliament actually does happen then what follows will be fascinating to watch and nothing will be ruled out... his comments of today will be forgotten or glossed over as no longer relevant.

I foresee the most unpredictable and nerve-wracking election night of my lifetime approaching.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.161.178
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 12:30 am:   

Correction above: 'the Heath government'.
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Nathaniel Tapley (Natt)
Username: Natt

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 78.149.183.216
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 02:25 am:   

I think the position is that the Lib Dems have ruled out joining a Lib-Lab coalition with Gordon Brown as Prime Minister if Labour do not win the greatest number of seats, not joining a Lib-Lab coalition under any circumstances (which would be very stupid if that's what they have done).

As our choice is really between three neo-Thatcherite parties, I shall probably end up voting for the one over which Rupert Murdoch has least influence (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/18/clegg-media-elite-murdoch-li b-dem ). I've voted Green in general elections before, but their anti-science, pro-'alternative medicine' position is a little too much to stomach this year.

As a socialist, I simply cannot vote for the Labour Party, who brought us tuition fees, an end to the 10% income tax rate for low-earners, the Iraq War, the attempted privatisation of the Royal Mail and the actual selling off of its profitable arms to private companies, the Terrorism Acts of 2000 and 2001, the Digital Economy Bill, the end to a right to trial by jury, 28 days' detention without charge, who cut benefits to single mothers and housing allowance to people living alone within six months in parliament, the dismissal of David Nutt, and utter, stinking venality from Bernie Ecclestone in 1997 to Hoon & co this year. It is a party of leeches and scum who still, occasionally, have the sheer gall to sing 'The Red Flag'. I wish that all parties would lose, but I wish that Labour would lose more than any of the others.

Except the Tories. I hate the Tories. But everyone does, don't they?

Unlike Groucho Marx, I can't join any party that would have Hazel Blears as a member...
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Simon Bestwick (Simon_b)
Username: Simon_b

Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 86.24.165.4
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 08:34 am:   

Nat- imagine what it's like here in Swinton. Hazel Blears is our local MP. I agree with everything you have to say about the Labour party in its current form, although I dread the prospect of a Tory government even more than Brown and co staying in office. It's one of the most dispiriting elections I recall, purely because none of the parties likely to end up in control are ones I would touch with a bargepole.

We've got a TUSC candidate, thank God. On the flipside, we also have this guy:

http://www.richardcarvath.net/policy.htm

Link provided solely to show that malignant, bigoted tools like this still infest the earth...
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.232.226
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 09:17 am:   

Actually quite interesting, Simon: your classic 'religious maverick' mix of right and (vaguely) left ingredients, with no analysis other than born-again Christianity. So he says 'rebuild the manufacturing base' and favours a 'mixed economy) and, dramatically, offers to live on a National Minimum Wage (he probably has no idea how little that is: he'd be living with his parents and wearing the same suit until the next election). Dave Nellist, who as an MP only took the average wage of a skilled worker in his constituency, had an easy life by comparison. However, the 'moral' bigotry of RC's social policies does rather dominate his manifesto and will account for any votes he manages to scratch together.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 09:33 am:   

I still think a Lib-Lab pact (whatever Clegg says to allay former Tory voters fears) is the best we can hope for i.e. the least evil of all the possible results. God help us!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 12:36 pm:   

What a car crash of an election we have in store with these possible outcomes from least terrible to nightmare scenario: Lib-Lab pact, Labour win, Lib-Tory pact, Tory win!!

Faced with that I predict the lowest turnout since records began and the country's slide into bankruptcy and Second World status to continue apace... we're all doomed, doomed, I tell you!
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Nathaniel Tapley (Natt)
Username: Natt

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 78.149.183.216
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 01:07 pm:   

Simon - I like "No to all things homosexual."

Is that anything made by a homosexual, or does it have to be overtly homosexual in and of itself before we'll say no to it? I'm assuming the music of Soft Cell is out, but can we listen to Liberace? The plays of Noel Coward? The Happy Prince?

It reminds me of The Day Today's Gay Desk: "The gay seas are the Caspian and the Adriatic..."

"No to giving kids condoms and abortions." Yes to children undergoing many hours of labour before an epesiotomy and forcep-filled childbirth...

He's a Christian and into boxing? I would have thought having to turn the other cheek would make boxing quite difficult...
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 02:31 pm:   

To be honest, the only form of leftist politics I have any time for now is that practised by the Zapatistas.

There are just as many power-mad bastards who are on the left as there are on the right.

Maybe that's what Rhys was implying in his remark above.

Mark S.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 02:36 pm:   

There are just as many power-mad bastards who are on the left as there are on the right.

Too true, Mark. Too bloody true.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 03:29 pm:   

>>There are just as many power-mad bastards who are on the left as there are on the right.<<

Yup, that sums the whole thing up for me too.

Personally, I reckon a hung parliament will be the best outcome. At the moment, I'm doing my best to avoid all the PR crap we're getting from all the different parties day after day.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 03:57 pm:   

So those politicians in the political centre – New Labour, the Lib Dems – are all angels, are they?

Beware of assuming that a consensus driven by business interests is blameless, and all critics of it are 'extremists' and therefore dangerous. I don't think not belonging to an extreme of left or right meant that Tony Blair, for example, was not power-mad or not a bastard.
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Nathaniel Tapley (Natt)
Username: Natt

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 78.149.183.216
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 04:34 pm:   

Where are you all finding these left-wing politicans? In Britain?

Jeremy Corbyn maybe... But all I see in any party is a bunch of besuited managerialist authoritarians who believe that they know best. The reason I shall vote for the Lib Dems without feeling like a part of me has died is that a hung parliament almost guarantees that we'll get serious constitutional reform. It's a once-in-a-generation opportunity to get rid of the first-past-the-post system that allows the House of Commons to remain the despicable rack of self-serving howler monkeys it is at the moment.

Unless anyone wants to join me in the mutualist commune I shall establish in my shed. We shall read Benjamin Tucker and Proudhon and drink fine co-op produced wines until lights out, when we shall retire to our newly-homesteaded beds, governed by no one...
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 05:48 pm:   

The problem is - to paraphrase Douglas Adams - anyone who wants to do the job is, by nature, to self-centred, power-hungry and egotistical to do it properly...

Anyone with enough common sense to do the job properly has too much common sense to want to do it.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.248
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 06:09 pm:   

A wise observation. But this would need to lead to discussions of religion, vocation, self-sacrifice, selfish unselfishness...
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 06:25 pm:   

I'm not sure that anyone's made a claim that those in the "centre" are all angels.

Wasn't it a "lesser of evils" type claim that was being made?

I don't think the equation "Blair=Thatcher", Joel, is particularly relevant, especially since, on the one hand (in this thread) you're using him as an example of the drawbacks of centrism and, on the other hand, as a right-wing demagogue. The word "Blair", it seems, has come to represent some sort of strange pejorative abracadabra. Once his name's invoked everyone's supposed to scream in horror (rather like the appearance of Fu Manchu).

As far I'm concerned, there's been a political class in this country for a very long time (right the way through the last century) that has a vested interest in the party political system remaining more or less as it is (consisting, broadly---of socialist, conservative or liberal). However, in Britain, that seems to be what people want and are prepared to vote for in large numbers.

Basically, when it comes to the Labour Party, the Marxists did an SDP. They didn't want to compromise, they demanded their view be sacrosanct, and exited (or were driven out, according to your ideology) the party. Neither group wanted to live within (what had been) a broad democratic socialist church. One side wanted Marxism and the other side wanted Social Democracy. It's a shame, but there you have it.

Even if we get PR (which, I agree would be more representative and a good thing in that sense), you'll still have the same bunch (i.e. political class) of self-serving howler monkeys. You just won't be able to vote them out.

I'd rather live under a system more akin to your mutualist shed, Nat.

Mark S.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.146.213.198
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 06:27 pm:   

Or as Billy Connolly once said: "Don't vote for them, it only encourages them."
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 06:35 pm:   

Sorry, when I said this:

(or were driven out, according to your ideology)

I meant this

(or were driven out according to one's ideological view)

Mark S.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 06:40 pm:   

>>I'm not sure that anyone's made a claim that those in the "centre" are all angels.<<

No, I definitely didn't mean that. What I meant was, they're ALL a bunch of self-serving, power mad, greedy b******s as far as I'm concerned. Left, right, centre - they're all the same.

I'm with Natt on the following:
"The reason I shall vote for the Lib Dems without feeling like a part of me has died is that a hung parliament almost guarantees that we'll get serious constitutional reform. It's a once-in-a-generation opportunity to get rid of the first-past-the-post system that allows the House of Commons to remain the despicable rack of self-serving howler monkeys it is at the moment."

I normally vote with my morals and go Green, but they never have a chance of winning so it's no more than a protest vote. Now, in this constituency, there's a damn good chance the LibDem could oust the Tory - I'd like to help him do it!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.248
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 06:59 pm:   

With certain people above (not Caroline), I sense an endemic polarisation of belief-systems. And argument for argument's sake.
Ian McEwan said in his recent novel;
"The past had shown him many times that the future would be its own solution."
and I feel that one needs instinctively to nudge reality in that direction, whether by vote or abstention of vote. Not consensus, but sensitivity to synchronicity or serendipity.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 07:12 pm:   

Well, I'm not here for a row.

If I've given that impression, or if anyone thinks I am, then I'll shut up right now.

Mark S.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.248
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 07:19 pm:   

An argument is not a row. An argument is a debate - but an argument can be only for argument's sake. And I find this happens all the time when politics or religion come up on the internet.
It is often counter-productive. Counter-serendipitous.
Obviously one needs to discuss beliefs and so forth with other people before coming to a conclusion. It's just that sometimes conclusions are settled (votes decided) prior to the argument being ignited.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 08:05 pm:   

It's more incremental though, isn't it? Obviously one rarely changes one's own views due to any given single exchange of opinons (however deeply held) on the internet, but seeds of doubt can be planted.

I wouldn't say I'm rigidly closed-minded and completely indifferent to the differing views of others. I don't see how anyone not a fanatic can be, really.

Hey ho



Mark S.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.248
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 08:11 pm:   

I didn't intend to create an argument about having arguments. And I have no direct insight into any minds other than - possibly - my own. :-)
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 09:03 pm:   

I never thought I'd see the day ( a few minutes ago) when I'd actually see a party political broadcast on behalf of the BNP.
Sickened.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 09:18 pm:   

Isn't it better that their views should be expressed so as to be discussed? Banning their views won't make the views go away.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 09:30 pm:   

True. You have a valid point there but there is little hope that who he is reaching out to sees what he is doing.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 09:40 pm:   

In that KKK speech he talks about being 'determined to sell' 'using freedom and democracy' 'no one can attack you for using these words' and finishing with 'every last one must go.' He mixes his words to gain the most appeal, for some.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 10:24 pm:   

On a lighter note, surely if the BNP have their way and everyone of "ethnic origin" are returned to their respective "homelands", there're only going to be a load of Welsh folk left. England and Scotland will be empty.
Still, at least that'd mean the BNP wouldn't be here either.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Monday, April 26, 2010 - 11:47 pm:   

Hmmmm. I just saw that BNP election broadcast. The first thing that came into my mind when I saw the spitfires (or were they hurricanes? Not sure) was Frank's astute remarks about Polish airman risking their lives in the Battle of Britain.

I couldn't believe Griffin had the nerve to stick a picture of Churchill in the background.

Oh look! I'm the new Winston Churchill, i.e. Nick Griffin. Maybe if he'd have stuck Oswald Mosley there, he'd be being a bit more honest about his agenda.

It had all the production values of the tackiest 70s British sex comedy. No-one's laughing, you feel a bit seedy after seeing it, and there's a token appearance of someone from an ethnic minority.

God help us. I can't believe we've reached the stage where the BNP are actually in a position to exploit the issue of immigration for their own purposes...

Mark S.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.210.123
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 09:11 am:   

Ramsey, the reasons for maintaining a 'no platform' policy where the BNP and similar organisations are concerned have to do with the way the far right works politically. Just as the Nazis combined political strategy with violence on the streets, the BNP organises and promotes racist violence. Every time the BNP make a high-profile appearance in the media, there are immediate violent attacks on ethnic minorities: smashed windows, houses or shops set on fire, people beaten up. That's not just random idiots using what they've heard as an excuse: it's co-ordinated activity by BNP activists. The BNP used to have a paramilitary strand called Combat 18, but after one of its leaders was jailed for murder and another for sending letter-bombs, Nick Griffin decided C18 was too much of a liability. Instead, the BNP has created a racist popular front, the English Defence League, which maintains an intimidating and violent presence on the streets. Griffin wrote years ago that the BNP's strength lay in the fact that it didn't just talk: its arguments were backed up with "well-aimed boots and fists". People have a right to be protected from violence guided by the propaganda of race hatred.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 178.182.178.201
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 09:55 am:   

Joel - I want to agree with Ramsey, but unfortunately due to experience I have to agree with you.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 10:02 am:   

They had Party political broadcasts at the last election so this isn't a first.

the worst thing this time is that they have a chance of getting some seats this time round. I know they came second last time round in my sister's constituency up the road in Blackley. Also they've been campaigning here in salford for months already - and our MP is Hazel Blears, one of the most hated people in Salford. they've got a scarily good chance.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 11:13 am:   

I've reluctantly come round to Joel's way of thinking on this issue... every time a BNP representative is interviewed on television the interviewer feels duty bound to attack by aggressive questioning and mocking tone of voice which only creates even more sympathy and anger in the minds of the public who already agree with them or are being swayed - and who hear themselves being mocked by the powers that be. This results in a violent response against ethnic minorities on the street and more votes for the BNP come polling day.

The BNP are in a win-win situation when it comes to airing their poisonous views on television. If you attack them you are attacking the rising number of disenfranchised people who agree with them, if you somehow manage to debate reasonably with them they come across as somehow "respectable" and even more minds are swayed. I now believe that for the greater public good they should be banned from all television broadcasts - the oxygen of publicity can only fan the fires of bigotry. Living in Northern Ireland I've seen quite enough of that...
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 86.142.146.96
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 11:22 am:   

Where I used to live, the BNP drove around in a car with a megaphone on top. Really gave me the creeps.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 12:54 pm:   

Joel, I still see Combat 18 graffiti daubed on walls over here and it is common knowledge that the BNP have close ties to the most extreme loyalist paramilitary groups (who still rule their communities through fear) and that they are responsible for the increasing number of vicious attacks on the growing immigrant population in Northern Ireland and for fomenting trouble against the Catholic community in certain flashpoint areas. The BNP are even making political inroads over here as well... it is all very worrying.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 01:01 pm:   

I do agree it's a difficult one, but I don't believe in banning the BNP. If the state sanctions a ban on the expression of ideas, the process won't necessarily stop with the BNP.

A ban would really give them a huge propaganda coup and allow them to portray themselves as the victims of an assault on free speech. I don't think running away from a debate with them does us any favours. I don't really understand how a "no platform" position can be applied anyway: it certainly turned into a joke when tried with Sinn Fein.

Are we really going to have policeman raiding places where a group of a dozen or so BNP supporters have gathered together in order to try and disseminate their nasty views?

When the BNP thugs break the law, let's have them in court. But if they're not breaking the law then let's have them in a debate.

I'm with Ramsey on this one.

Mark S.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.171.235
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 02:16 pm:   

The BNP are able to broadcast and advertise, this in turn, in the eyes of some, gives them a hitherto previous undreamt of legitimacy. To advertise and broadcast as they are doing now means people are giving them money, supplying them with a regular finacial base from which to draw. The more they broadcast, the more more they recieve. Don't ban the BNP, but ban them from airing their views. Though of course the argument there is that this will be but the first step in a series of procedures which none of us want to see implemented.

It's a different story if you live in areas not targeted by the BNP and their like. If you live in an area where their campaigns are most focused, and if you are an immigrant, or merely not white anglo saxon, whatever that's supposed to mean in a country as ethnically diverse as Britain, it is very much a case of 50/50 walking down the street and hoping not to be targeted.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 02:21 pm:   

Mark, a "no platform" policy doesn't mean banning the organisation or its meetings, it just means refusing to allow them to participate in debates in a public forum. Since the BNP leadership advocates racist violence, in what way is it blameless when such crimes happen? Griffin's second-in-command, Tony Lecomber, has a conviction for making bombs – so have two other BNP activists, though only one (David Copeland) set them off.

I don't think broadcasters try nearly hard enough to challenge the BNP – why does nobody in the BBC ever ask Griffin why he calls the Holocaust the 'Holohoax' and claims it was a myth generated by the Jews and the Allies?
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Skunsworth (Skunsworth)
Username: Skunsworth

Registered: 05-2009
Posted From: 78.144.74.145
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 03:37 pm:   

I think agree with Mark here. My own suspicion is that if you give organisations like the BNP a platform alongside other parties, they tend to come across terribly - hoisted and exposed by their own stupidity and narrowsightedness. Voters are smarter than people like the BNP think, and the bottom line is that this is a democracy and we have to accept that in a democrat process will likley throw up some opinions/beliefs that are abhorent to us. I do agree with Joel, though, that the BNP should be challenged harder, and I honestly believe that their responses to these challenges will show them up as the fat, useless bully boy fools that they really are. I mean, did you see their manifesto launch? Hysterical and laughable!

S
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 03:55 pm:   

Just to quote Haroon Siddique of the Guardian 'The police have a ban on BNP membership that they say is based on their duty, as a public body, to promote equality under the Race Relations Amendment Act 2000.

But while all public bodies are subject to the act, most of them appear not to share the police view that "promoting equality" necessitates a ban on BNP membership (an action not explicitly endorsed in the act). Other public bodies believe that by ensuring employees do not practise discrimination in the workplace they are complying fully with provisions of the act.'

If a member of a union who worked for the BBC objected I wonder what would happen?
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 04:11 pm:   

'BECTU represents production staff across all roles in broadcasting and has on previous occasions pledged to support any member who chooses, as a matter of conscience, not to work on output which either involves or promotes the BNP. In the past broadcasters have respected that individuals can exercise this choice.'

I've found a little bit about the union stance but it was about the debate last year...
http://www.bectu.org.uk/news/449
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.237.52
Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 10:10 pm:   

I had a BNP leaflet through the door today.

It went where it belonged. In the bin.

gcw
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 01:09 am:   

I had a BNP leaflet through the door today too.

After I wiped my arse on it, it went down the khazi.

Mark S.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 01:26 am:   

They're obviously hitting everywhere - we got one today too. Griffin's and Churchill's heads so close together they could almost be two halves of Zaphod Beeblebrox.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.188.178
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 09:05 am:   

Nick Griffin led a BNP protest outside Coventry Cathedral in 1995, on the fiftieth anniversary of the end of the Second World War, when a commemoration service for the British soldiers who died fighting in that war was taking place. He and his followers were shouting that the Nazis were not our enemy and that by taking on Hitler we were serving the Communist agenda.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 09:14 am:   

The problem isn't the existence of this kind of party; the real problem is some of the utter fuckwits who have the vote, and cast it for scum like this because they're too thick to realise why it's wrong.

I truly believe that not everyone should be given the right to vote - you should have to pass some kind of IQ test or something. Giving a vote to some of the brain-dead chavs I see roaming the streets through my office window is like giving a hedgehog the power to vote.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:29 am:   

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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:35 am:   



Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad mood this week. Feeling extremely cynical and downbeat about...well, everything.
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Simon Bestwick (Simon_b)
Username: Simon_b

Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 86.24.165.4
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 11:34 am:   

Zed... what've you got against hedgehogs?! They're quite sweet, amiable creatures. Comparing them to chavs is just mean.

But more seriously, I know what you're getting at. Like the great Mr Ellison said: 'You don't have the right to your opinion. You have the right to your *informed* opinion.'

In principle, it would be great if the vote went only to those who could demonstrate they had intelligence and a capacity for independent thought. In practice, though, that definition would be set at least partially by the ruling class (for want of a better term- i.e. those people who are most advantaged by the current set-up, hold power because of it, and would stand to lose most if it was fundamentally changed), and so would end up excluding people more for having 'stupid' or 'immature' political opinions- i.e. anything left of Tony Blair. (Which is some way to the right.)

Really don't know what the best solution is. Churchill famously said that democracy is the worst system on offer... apart from all the others. Sometimes I agree with that, other times I think we need a revolution in this country. Depends on my mood, caffeine intake, how the writing's going and how long it is since I last... um, never mind.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 88.108.222.253
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 11:34 am:   

>>After I wiped my arse on it, it went down the khazi.

The Green party wouldn't like that. Shoulda recycled it, fella.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 88.108.222.253
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 11:35 am:   

Not after you'd wiped your arse, obviously. but before that.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 88.108.222.253
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 11:37 am:   

>>as Billy Connolly once said: "Don't vote for them, it only encourages them."

I thought that was one of Mr Twain's.
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.237.52
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 07:02 pm:   

Ah, now gentlemen, even thick people have to be allowed the vote.

Thats democracy folks...What's the alternative?

gcw
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 09:42 pm:   

Killing everyone but me.
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.237.52
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 09:54 pm:   

Now Zed....I don't think you've really thought it through......

gcw
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:26 pm:   

Oh, believe me, I have...many, many times.
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Nathaniel Tapley (Natt)
Username: Natt

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 78.146.249.100
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 01:33 am:   

Mark - "I can't believe we've reached the stage where the BNP are actually in a position to exploit the issue of immigration for their own purposes..."

We're at that stage because all of the other parties pretend to agree with the BNP to appease the tabloids. When Nick Griffin appeared on Neewsnight, every other contributor prefaced their remarks with something like "Well, we're all aware that immigration is a huge problem..." Not one suggested that immigration was a positive force in the country, dared to state that Britain might not be full, pointed to the historical benefits immigration has brought us, promoted the idea of Britain as a haven of liberty for those persecuted in other countries. Not one said anything good about immigration.

For two decades, the entire public discourse has been governed by the tabloids. These are the same papers that are happy to run the headline 'Asylum Seekers Eat Our Swans' over an article which reveals that asylum seekers do not, actually, eat swans.

David Blunkett claimed that we were being 'swamped'. Jack Straw always has time to say that we were 'too tolerant of travellers', as well as having a quick swipe at burqas. Hazel Blears constantly parrots the bile spouted by her most ignorant constituentsd as 'received wisdom'. Phil Woolas says that his family have 'suffered' because of immigration, and he's the Immigration Minister.

These people are pondscum, so desperate to secure the support of the most venal and reprehensible organs in the known world that they will not even challenge blatant lies, and constantly pander to our basest - if groundless - fears. Even when he meets someone he knows is a bigot, Gordon Brown doesn't tell her she is.

Because then he might have to tell David Blunkett that he's one, too...

The traditional narrative is that the BNP has picked up support because the government has let immigration to run unchecked. The truth is that the BNP has picked up support because the government has allowed its lies to run unchecked, and has even adopted a number of them itself.

They make my skin crawl, and I shall revel in those few glorious hours next Thursday, before the first returns are counted, when there are no sitting MPs at all.

My further thoughts are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5lm_QLhCPk
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Simon Bestwick (Simon_b)
Username: Simon_b

Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 86.24.165.4
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 08:27 am:   

Agree with every word, Natt. And the youtube clip is hilarious. (Particularly 'Well, I wouldn't be smiling... not without a reacharound.')
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.176.251
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 09:13 am:   

"The traditional narrative is that the BNP has picked up support because the government has let immigration to run unchecked. The truth is that the BNP has picked up support because the government has allowed its lies to run unchecked, and has even adopted a number of them itself."

True and well put, Natt. We've even seen the "immigration is a major problem" view put forward on this board a few times, though not recently. What's needed (and we'll never get it from New Labour) is a recognition that the lack of jobs and housing has its roots in class oppression and free-market capitalism, not in immigration. The "I'm not a racist, but..." propaganda not only serves to keep racism respectable, it effectively blocks any discussion of the class basis of poverty and lack of opportunity.

And where workers have been brought to the UK in order to undercut wages, working conditions and union agreements, in what way are those workers to blame? Sweatshop labour and human trafficking are a problem, but the blame lies with those who exploit immigrant labour – and tabloid hysteria about immigration creates the ideal conditions for them to do so.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 10:59 am:   

I love the way today that the Mail (either that or the express, I didn't check) is castigating Gordon Brown not for insulting the woman, but for apologising to her!!!

Who'd want that job?
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 11:09 am:   

"We've even seen the "immigration is a major problem" view put forward on this board a few times, though not recently. "

That's because Albie's not been round. It was one of his particular hobby horses. One of the problems with the debate on immigration IMO is that the PERCEIVED problems with it are so much larger than the ACTUAL problems that it becomes a major issue - exacerbates an already touchy subject into a massively contentious area.

Add to that the fact that if you try to point out any problems - however minor - the racist card is played which does nothing but inflame tempers.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 11:37 am:   

One of the problems with the debate on immigration IMO is that the PERCEIVED problems with it are so much larger than the ACTUAL problems that it becomes a major issue - exacerbates an already touchy subject into a massively contentious area.

That's a very good point, Weber. I agree.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 11:40 am:   

Just to clarify, I do believe that overall immigration is a good thing.

There was a programme on last year where they took some of your typical dolescum "These f***ing immigrants are taking our f***ing jobs" dickheads and put them working in th e same jobs as the immigrants were taking. The difference in the work ethic was amazing. The immigrants were doing these really lowly jobs, putting their backs into it, taking pride in doing the job right. The homegrown dolescum were lazy fuckwits lolling about saying "This jobs beneath me, why should I do this" and fucking up left, right and centre.

My only issue is that we don't import any dolescum or thieves - we've got enough of those. We need to make sure that any immigrants are going to be good for the country -and most of them are. The exceptions to that need to be weeded out and not let in if possible.

I just wish we could export some of the lower tiers of our society - but noone would have them.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 11:50 am:   

I am so with you on this, Weber.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 02:19 pm:   

Whoever wins it looks pretty bleak...if you scroll down to the last paragraph of this article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/28/greece-debt-crisis-faq
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 81.129.143.153
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 02:24 pm:   

May I just point out that when I said this:

"I can't believe we've reached the stage where the BNP are actually in a position to exploit the issue of immigration for their own purposes..."

I meant to imply that the BNP's purpose when it comes to "immigration" is a form of ethnic cleansing. That's been the agenda of the BNP now, and in all its former incarnations, and is the truth they won't admit.

Given the right of free movement and settlement we all enjoy as members of the European Union, it's not possible to limit immigration and emigration within the Union. That's one of the reasons why the BNP want out of Europe. For my own part, I'm delighted that any Briton can live in Spain, or any Pole in England, any Spaniard in France, and so on and so forth.

Mark S.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 02:33 pm:   

I'll be watching the debate on the economy tonight.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/29/euro-eurozone-debt-crisis-ed itorial

'...which is why the crisis in Europe will form a crucial part of the backdrop for tonight's party leaders' debate on the economy. Gordon Brown, David Cameron and Nick Clegg have struggled to articulate an agenda that is about more than merely doing what financial markets demand. If they want a reason to come up with one, they could do worse than look across the Channel.'
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 03:03 pm:   

So the government bailed out the banks and then government used the bond markets to pay for that and the plan from each party to get through all this is....
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 04:18 pm:   

Check this new poster:

http://pharmagossip.posterous.com/fan-photos-from-vandalised-conservative-billb
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 05:47 pm:   

I've just found a site with 100 of them... photographed all over the country. I'll send you the link, Joel :>).
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 05:56 pm:   

You've probably seen them all but this was from another site.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 06:24 pm:   

A site for sore eyes.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 08:35 pm:   

You could get 76bn from here...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/sep/21/military.armstrade
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 10:53 pm:   

Amstrad? Oh, arms trading. I was gonna say...
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Nathaniel Tapley (Natt)
Username: Natt

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 78.146.249.100
Posted on Saturday, May 01, 2010 - 01:56 pm:   

Here's a little something I made in 2008 that seems worth revisiting now...

http://nathanieltapley.wordpress.com/2010/05/01/its-not-easy-being-brown/
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 01:23 pm:   

Well, this woman could be my MP in a week's time - how scary is that?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/conservatives-philippa-stroud-gay -cure

"Rising Tory star Philippa Stroud ran prayer sessions to 'cure' gay people"...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 02:40 pm:   

Dear God, it's really happening, THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING, we're heading for a Tory government... is anyone else here as petrified as I am?

We face the prospect of waking up to David Cameron as PM on Friday morning!! A stag-shooting, hoo-ray henry with about as much sincerity and understanding of real people as a shop window dummy. The country, the less well off, the public sector and Northern Ireland in particular (that's me on all counts, folks) are well and truly fucked!!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.110.133
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 09:24 pm:   

Sad thing is, half the people voting this time won't remember what it was like when the tories were in last time.
I'm dreading this week. The bloody Empire Strikes Back.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.110.133
Posted on Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 09:25 pm:   

Sad thing is, it seems to be what the media wants; it all feels steered by them, the sick bastards.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 02:29 am:   

I couldn't agree more, Tony.

The media attitude seems to be "time to give someone else a chance" because it's a better "story" than "steady as she goes". The most terrifying thing is that a majority of the populace go along with this bollocks (like sheep) rather than thinking about how the actual policies of their "new government" will affect them over the next 5 years... we're all going to Hell in a handcart I fear.

The only faint chink of light is that if the Tories do get in then they won't last more than one term but by then it will be far too late for many of us...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.238.217
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 02:37 pm:   

Hey, I'll be over in London (which I understand is a large conurbation in the south-east of England) on Friday. Looking forward to seeing this new era firsthand. Like Caligula, Thatcher's head will be on every statue and, as in all good alternative realities, there'll be airships. Say there'll be airships.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Monday, May 03, 2010 - 02:39 pm:   

What're you doing whilst you're over, proto?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.197.60
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 12:29 am:   

I'm going with a friend who's going to see Julie Andrews at the O2. Not sure what to do myself - perhaps THE WOMAN IN BLACK? Anyone got any recommendations?
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.146.173.197
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 10:48 am:   

Protodroid - The Woman In Black...not seen it myself, but by all accounts, according to many of my friends who have seen it, absolutely terrifying.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.244.76
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 01:14 pm:   

Thanks Frank. And that sentence of yours was a masterclass in suspense, by the way.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 02:27 pm:   

Proto, I saw The Woman in Black about 8 years ago, and it was excellent. Go hither and shit thy pants in terror.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 02:50 pm:   

Yes, agreed, The Woman in Black is superb on stage. Go see it .. definitely. You'll love it.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 03:40 pm:   

Okay, thanks, that's three thumbs up. One too many, surely?
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 03:41 pm:   

That wasn't my thumb...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 03:42 pm:   

Bloody volcano! Again!
Anyone got a very big cork?
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Nathaniel Tapley (Natt)
Username: Natt

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 78.146.249.100
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 05:01 pm:   

Oh... 'cork'...

Then, no.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.229.104
Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 05:21 pm:   

Ha!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.173.248
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 10:47 am:   

Seems we're in an economic recovery at the mo, but is it being fanfared? Is it bollocks. This country is crazy; it - or hang on, the PAPERS - thinks changing the government will be fun, like changing Doctor Who or some such. And the other day, after that last debate, this woman said on the radio 'Brown's ideas made the most sense' - was it picked up on? Guess.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 11:00 am:   

Better the devil you know and, like him or loathe him, Gordon Brown is the best man for the job out of a pretty poor lot - as nice a chap as Nick Clegg is. The country, nay the world, is in the worst economic crisis we have seen since the 1930s and, in those circumstances, experience and steadying the ship is all that should count. I still think Brown staying on as PM in a Lib-Lab pact would have been the best outcome we could have hoped for but that now looks increasingly unlikely and a return to the nightmare of the 1980s x10 is what we're facing - because of public disinterest and media irresponsibility.

It's almost enough to make you doubt the wisdom of the democratic system!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.173.248
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 12:01 pm:   

And Mr Brown - a last thank you; we just got your £400 scrappage money for our boiler. And autism is being better dealt with in schools (they told me so themselves).
:-(
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.143.178.131
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 02:07 pm:   

Sometimes it does seem to be down to a choice of which sort of arsehole you want to govern; the one on the right, left or in the middle.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 03:41 pm:   

And now we have riots in Athens...after the spending cuts etc enforced last Sunday.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 04:35 pm:   

Could we be seeing the beginnings of a modern day equivalent of the French Revolution set to sweep across Europe... only this time with the proletariat rising up against the banks, businesses and governments that got us all into this mess? How ironic if the death of capitalism begins where western civilization was born.

Time to brush up on those SAS survival skills methinks!
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 04:59 pm:   

I think it's true that the media are pushing the idea that novelty should be the force that influences ones vote. GB's doing pretty well. (Do I mean Great Britain or Gordon Brown?)
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 02:03 pm:   

Well the guy with a megaphone on salford precinct proselytising for the BNP just told an asian colleague of mine (3rd generation born in Britain) that she should go back to her own country...

Seems some things don't need much of a push to come up to the surface.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 05:22 pm:   

Went in to vote at lunch time. I knew exactly who i was going to vote for (Lib Dem) but once I was in the booth I made a point of saying "Eenie Meenie miney Mo" loud enough for everyone else to hear.

It amused me anyway.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 05:25 pm:   

SDLP for me, due to lifelong allegiance, which is basically a vote for Labour.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 05:53 pm:   

The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 07:15 pm:   

The other way round, surely: what was considered conservative in the 1970s is now judged radical by the standards of the viciously right-wing 'consensus' of the major parties. Roy Hattersley said ten years ago that he'd moved from the right wing of the Labour Party to the left wing simply by holding onto the same views while the party moved. And that was nothing compared to what's happened since.

Slightly astonishingly, the Tories are still significantly worse than Labour. Don't know how they manage that, but they do.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 08:29 pm:   

Anyone staying up late to watch the results come in?
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.255.101
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 08:40 pm:   

Probably not. My (current Lib-Dem) MP came to the door today! Seemed quite chuffed when I said I'd voted for him - Lib-Dems have been pretty good in our area since we moved here almost twelve years ago, so I shook his hand! Rather him than the gay-bashing Philippa Stroud, who may get in here...
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 08:48 pm:   

I spent an hour watching the International Women's Day Debate in the Lords (scheduled for a day when hardly anyone was there) which included information on female genital mutilation and also found out that in Switzerland women didn't get the vote until 1971....that can't be right. I'll have to go and check...
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.255.101
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 10:18 pm:   

Some info here, Ally:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women's_suffrage
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 10:48 pm:   

Thank you, Mick!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 11:42 pm:   

Yeah, I'm staying up all night glued to the telly with gritted teeth and shredded nails... nevermind exciting, this is the most terrifying election night of my lifetime!!
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.205.105
Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 11:48 pm:   

Newsnight, just now: "It's here where the conservatives plan to decapitate a labour councillor. Obviously not literally."

LabCon will win. They always do.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.255.101
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:03 am:   

First blood to Labour.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.171.167.123
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:11 am:   

Looks like a Tory overall majority judging by the single result in so far, ie Sunderland.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.171.167.123
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:13 am:   

i.e.judging by the swing.
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Simon Bestwick (Simon_b)
Username: Simon_b

Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 86.24.209.217
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 12:26 am:   

Hung Parliament. Please god a hung parliament and electoral reform.

Failing that, a resurrected Guy Fawkes to obliterate the whole crooked crew and leave the field open for something new.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:04 am:   

Thought you might find this pic amusing:

PollingStation
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.255.101
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:22 am:   

Good pic, Caroline - just nicked it for Facebook!
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:30 am:   

Not my pic, Mick. I nicked it from another forum! Hope there's no copyright on it!

Hey, this business about some polling stations shutting on the dot of 10pm even when there was a queue outside is a bit bad, isn't it? I reckon we could have some legal challenges if that's happened where there's a close call between candidates.

I've never known a situation where people in the UK have been refused a vote!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.255.101
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:07 am:   

There's even talk of stations running out of ballot papers!
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 03:41 am:   

Ballot papers? It's just plain old-fashioned! We should have electronic voting, using e-books ...

Well, I'm off to bed. Bit worried I'll wake up under a Tory government, hope I don't have nightmares.

Mark S.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.214.106
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 08:05 am:   

Hung!
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.151.200
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 10:48 am:   

Bragging again.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:14 am:   

That was a Mark Twain quote about radicals and conservatives. I just found it amusing
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:39 am:   

At least my man got in and Alliance ousted Peter Robinson while the Tories failed to get an overall majority... but the News this morning still isn't half depressing.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:53 am:   

And I'm not just talking the election result... look to Wall Street!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:58 am:   

Well we have got the hung parliament. Even if the tories get every seat that's left they'll still be 4 short of the majority.

But my vote in salford is officially worthless. that bitch Blears got back in. 16000 votes to the lib dem's 11000.

11000 would be a clear win in some constituencies.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:35 pm:   

On a pleasing note, in an otherwise muddled morning, Griffin got his marching orders in Barking.

Weyman Bennett, the joint secretary of Unite Against Fascism (UAF), said: "The BNP's vote has been paltry. This just shows that the party's increased exposure has exposed them for what they are.

"The BNP fielded more candidates than ever and yet the party has gone backwards."




Mark S.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 01:44 pm:   

Agreed about the BNP - glad they've been sent packing.

Not sure yet how I feel about the overall result. I just feel a bit "hungover" today really ...
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:13 pm:   

The overall result is that we're going to end up with a Tory government anyway.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:20 pm:   

I was looking at the figures on the BBC website. AS of just before lunch, the Lib Dems had notched up 22% of the vote. labour had not up 28% of the vote. Lib dems has 52 seats, Labour had 251.

I don't think there's a better case for PR than that. Looking at the umber of seats, you think the LD got a miniscule amount of votes when realistically, they're not that far behind the second party. the Lib Dems should have 6% less seats than labour...

Almost enough to put you off voting.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 02:54 pm:   

It's enough to put you off maths...I just don't understand how it works. But I'm thick as shit.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 03:22 pm:   

One interesting point just made...if the Tories get in they might have an election soon where they will say to voters ...give us the majority and those votes might come from the lib dem voters who must be disappointed about the fact that they got a quarter of the votes and a small percentage of seats. With a referendum on PR Brown has made an offer perhaps Clegg can't turn down...
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 03:23 pm:   

I see "gorgeous" George Galloway was kicked back into third in Poplar. Can't say I'm sorry for him. He's a nasty piece of work. He didn't even turn up for the declaration and show an ounce of respect (ahem), despite bigging himself up as being the winner beforehand.

Bye, bye George.

Mark S.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 03:43 pm:   

Oh dear, listening to Cameron it does sound like he's going to try and get Clegg into bed with him...

Con-Lib

My brain hurts.

Mark S.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 05:01 pm:   

The whole seats/votes discrepancy issue is precisely what I meant by "it's almost enough to make you doubt the wisdom of the democratic system" - it's virtually impossible to administrate fairly but is still the fairest system us thicko human beings have been able to come up with. We're just not very good at co-operating as a species - the same bald fact that doomed the communist experiment as well.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 07:08 pm:   

The last time the lib dems got a promise that electoral reform would be looked at (in this situation) it was talked about and the report put in a cupboard and promptly forgotten. It isn't a big offer at all. At least the LD's get a promise of a referendum with labour.

Clegg says that the Tories have to 'prove' that they can govern which means persuade him that they can and he gets something worthwhile out of it.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 07:37 pm:   

Mmm. So will Cameron offer Clegg a cabinet post?

I just asked this on Facebook...playing devil's advocate...if you were Clegg what would you do?
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.177.42
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 08:12 pm:   

Galloway's arrogance and egotism would be considered positive values in a right-wing politician, but in a socialist they are clearly significant drawbacks. I've lost patience with him. Sad to note, though, that Respect's Salma Yaqoob quite narrowly failed to beat the Labour candidate, Roger Godsiff – a thoroughly mediocre privatisation-supporting New Labour type. Lynne Jones, one of the few genuinely socialist Labour MPs left, stepped down this year – and endorsed Yaqoob instead of Godsiff.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:01 pm:   

I'll hold my hands up and say I voted tactically on the basis of the best of bad deal (as I see it) being a Lab-Lib coalition leading to, at least, a more representative voting system.

If we have Con-Lib, I'll be gutted.

Mark S.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 08:55 pm:   

Con-Lib is like, um, Lib-BNP. It's just daft.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 09:03 pm:   

We're so close to electoral reform you can almost taste it...
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.171.129.71
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 10:05 am:   

Well, were it not for the economic crisis, I suspect Cameron would be going for a 6 month minority government and then a snap election and a majority. I suspect Clegg has no real option (thanks to losing seats because of the electoral system) but to support the Tories somehow. Whether by coalition or agreed support for their first outlining bill. Had LibDems more votes, I think Clegg would've gone for a Labour pact.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 10:08 am:   

I had a weird premonition that parties all melded into this big white useless ball that everyone just rolled about mysteriously, even though it couldn't do anything any more. It was quite exhilarating and frightening thinking we had to do it all ourselves.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.171.167.123
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 10:25 am:   

The bigh white useless ball from 'The Prisoner'? Spot on, Tony
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 12:47 pm:   

Funnily enough, I'm halfway through the new series of remake of The Prisoner.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 01:06 pm:   

Interesting remark in the comments section of an article in The Guardian today...
'The real obstacle for Cameron is likely to be Tory Backbenchers, most of whom see the Great Reform Act extending the franchise to the middle classes as a blunder, and would die in a ditch rather than have actual fair elections.'

I should stop reading all this and get some writing done.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 01:13 pm:   

I can't see the talks between Clegg and Cameron coming to anything. They're both just following form and the Tories will end up trying to rule by minority government for a few months before another election. I can't see them getting a majority even then as whoever gets in is taking on a poison chalice with no room for populist measures due to the worsening economic crisis. These are seismic times we're living through...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.171.167.123
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 05:58 pm:   

This is the 'perfect snooker' of a hung parliament. One solution of snooker players in such a situation is to cannon randomly to see where all the balls fall...
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 06:44 pm:   

I'd rather it were a game of darts, that way somebody could get Bully's Special Prize.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 06:36 pm:   

So Brown has resigned as labour leader leaving the way clear for a lib/lab pact. He'd still be PM until replaced in a few weeks.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.168.160.85
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 07:21 pm:   

After the 'perfect snooker' of an election result, Brown releases the inevitable blast of the cue ball...
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 07:38 pm:   

Just heard his resignation speech...full of commitment to the 'formal talks' I'm sure it will be lib/lab...especiallly with the referendum promise which the Tories couldn't deliver. Too big an opportunity for Clegg to miss and now one hurdle is out of the way.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 07:42 pm:   

Hmmmm, I don't know about Clegg, he looks like the cat who swallowed the cream. Too much barely concealed smarm for me.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.168.160.85
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 08:26 pm:   

It is reported that the Tories have just offered Liberals a referendum on Proportional Representation.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 08:30 pm:   

That should be a laugh a minute, then.
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Simon Bestwick (Simon_b)
Username: Simon_b

Registered: 10-2008
Posted From: 86.24.209.217
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 08:33 pm:   

Nooo! Not a referendum, they should just do it. If they go for a referendum the right-wing scum press will turn into an armada of screeching, shitting monkeys claiming it'll cause the economy to collapse, the sky to fall in and Jordan's bosoms to deflate. Result: all the dribbling brainwashed retards who get told what to think by Rupert Murdoch and whoever's answerable for the Daily Wail will vote no and the chance will be lost.

And also: noooo! Clegg, don't do it! Lib/Lab- please god, Lib-Lab. Then again, whoever's in power probably won't retain it for more than six months or so...
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 08:37 pm:   

If Jordan's boobs deflate I think it'll make bigger headlines, no pun intended.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 08:39 pm:   

Simon Bestwick. Take a deep breath...it will be fine. It will be lib/lab...
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.121.35
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 08:40 pm:   

and Simon....xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 09:13 pm:   

But I thought that if the Libs joined with the Labs they wouldn't have enough MPs between them to do very much, even if a few of the "others" join them? Won't that just mean that Cameron and his lot can do whatever they like anyway?

Oh dear, I think I'm getting confused by all this.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.240.106
Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 09:58 pm:   

caroline, you're right. If Labour and the Libs form a coilition, they still need to pull in a few more parties to hold the majority. Then there's some other rules that'll be made up on the spot just to squeeze some more newspaper mileage out of all this....and all the while, Rome (or Greece?) burns.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 10:53 am:   

Milliband...leader!!!!! If Blair and Thatcher produced a kid, he'd look like Milliband.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 11:24 am:   

Cazza - If it's a lib lab coalition, they'll only have a majority of about 10 seats, which isn't much. If it's Lib-con they'll have a majority of about 60. that's a very simplistic overview forgetting anything about policies etc.
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 11:34 am:   

Pedantic Note of the Day

"Bosom" refers to the already plural *pair* of breasts.
If a woman has two bosoms, then she literally has four breasts.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 12:05 pm:   

Which is what...a nightmare for some...a joy for others....hmmm (;
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 12:07 pm:   

Must be a bloody nuisance when jogging...to the wielder of the said bosoms and any unfortunate passerby's.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 01:45 pm:   

Frank, really!! The vision you've just planted in my mind's eye *really* made me chuckle.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 02:20 pm:   

Frank, how would the said bosoms and those of the passer-by have the same wielder?

Actually, don't tell me. It's not a pleasant thought.
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.253.174.81
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 02:21 pm:   

Just remember kids:

Bosom x 4 = breast octopus
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.143.178.131
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 03:00 pm:   

A Breastocpus?

I think I remember fighting something like that in one of my Dungeons and Dragons sessions.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 05:51 pm:   

This is possibly one of the smoothest transitions off topic I've seen on this board. Well done to all involved.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 07:07 pm:   

Joel - Did I really say that, that the breasts belong to both the wielder and the passerby....maybe I did, maybe I subconsciously wished it to be...maybe just maybe...

Weber - yes, persistence is a key in moving away from a very serious topic to one of far greater importance...talking of tits, what's the lowdown on the coalition of stooges in the government to be, haven't checked the news yet...
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 07:08 pm:   

Caroline -
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 07:16 pm:   

BREAKING NEWS...APPARENTLY: LIB/CON coalition about to be announced...apparently
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.48.190
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 11:11 pm:   

Britain was fine when I left it a couple of days ago. Now look what you've gone and done. It's practically a dalek invasion.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 11:31 pm:   

Con-Lib it is.

I feel so fucking betrayed.

However, I suppose that's generally my default response.

Enjoy the taste of Tory cock, Lib-Dem wankers.

Mark S.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 01:25 am:   

I'm so gutted I can barely speak and an icy fear is creeping through my soul.

Maybe governance based on popularity is a ridiculous idea after all?
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Steveduffy (Steveduffy)
Username: Steveduffy

Registered: 05-2009
Posted From: 86.155.78.166
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 02:15 am:   

Still, you know the good news, don't you?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2010/03/15/lib-dem-leader-nick-c legg-i-won-t-prop-up-a-tory-government-after-general-election-86908-22112468/

Phew.
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 03:10 am:   

Thanks Steve, that's cheered me up no end

Pass the cut-throat razor will you?

Mark S.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.168.160.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 10:42 am:   

Maggie Clegg, keeper of the Corner Shop in the sixties and seventies (Coronation Street):
http://weirdmonger.blog-city.com/maggie_clegg_cameron_clegg_coalition_tory_liber al.htm
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.168.160.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 10:56 am:   

Resemblance by face as well as nomenclature?
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.9.233
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 11:46 am:   

I think it was GCW who commented about all the bias in the reporting of the election etc...Here is something more. And during one of the televised debates Boulton directly asked a question to Clegg designed to embarrass him, something the chair should not do.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/may/11/adam-boulton-sky-news-alistair-campb ell
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.168.160.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 12:08 pm:   

And Gordon Clegg in the story-line was the name of Maggie Clegg's imputed son!
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.9.233
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 12:20 pm:   

The New National Security Council has just been formed. They have one in America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Council
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 03:16 pm:   

Actually, I'm not feeling too dismayed at our new government (Yet! That may change shortly, I suppose). I reckon it's the best we could hope for given the circumstances. I mean, if the LibDems had propped up Labour, with someone like Balls (why does his name always make me chuckle?) or Milipede .. er, sorry .. Miliband in charge, I think things could have been so much worse.

As it is, we've got a LibDem moderating effect on the Tories, with things like a rise in the tax threshold designed to help lower earners rather than a rise in the inheritence tax threshold designed to help the rich.

I feel all the horse-trading and "jobs for the boys" stuff was quite unseemly, but I'm prepared to give these guys a go. After all, they can't make things much worse than Brown did, can they?

By the way, does anyone else think than Vince Cable would make a far better chancellor than George Osborne?
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 03:17 pm:   

"than" should read "that". D'oh!
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 79.64.9.233
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 03:25 pm:   

'By the way, does anyone else think than Vince Cable would make a far better chancellor than George Osborne?' Yes...much better.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 04:55 pm:   

Vince Cable pisses all over George Osborne... or rather, I wish he would do to show what true Liberals think of the Tory party.

Still, it's early days.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.168.160.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 05:41 pm:   

Maggie Clegg first:
clegg1
clegg2
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 07:53 pm:   

You're right, Des - Corrie's Maggie Clegg looks just like the offspring of Maggie Thatcher and Nick Clegg. Ugh .. what a horrible thought!

On the subject of TV dramas and recent political events, I must confess that every time someone mentions the name Clegg, I think of Norman Clegg from Last of the Summer Wine (as played by the brilliant Peter Sallis). Perhaps this country would be better run if Compo, Foggy and Clegg were in charge and parliament was in Holmfirth, Yorkshire.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.168.160.85
Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 - 11:34 pm:   

"Footfalls echo in the memory

Down the passage which we did not take

Towards the door we never opened

Into the rose-garden."

TS Eliot
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.110.239.137
Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 08:55 am:   

"Slowly the poison the whole bloodstream fills.
The waste remains, the waste remains and kills."

William Empson
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 11:03 am:   

There was a young man of Devizes
Whose balls were of different sizes
One was so small
It was no ball at all
But the other won several prizes.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 03:28 pm:   

Joel - Being generally ignorant outside of my own interests, I was pleasantly surprised when I looked up William Empson. My kind of poet/critic (among other things), perhaps because of his thumbing of the nose to particular areas of life. I shall take these investigations and delve much deeper. Many thanks, however inadvertently achieved.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:14 pm:   

Been reading up on tory policies; they don't sound so bad.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:21 pm:   

Except for screwing the working class to benefit those people who already have money. Any extra income they decide to find will always hit the lowest paid the hardest (eg rise in vat to 20%) and any cuts to services will do the same. But as long as the rich keep getting richer the tories don't give a flying fuck.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:21 pm:   

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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:29 pm:   

'Except for screwing the working class to benefit those people who already have money'
- the stuff i read seemed to suggest this was definitely not so. It seems they're more interested this time in helping the poor - unless you're not willing to work, in which case they stop your benefits. Sounds fair. I was dreading them getting in but really, I'm not as upset as I was; things they are doing are trickling into my field of vision, and they don't all suck (lights on buildings that aren't being used have to be switched off, schools left to decide more things for themselves).
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:37 pm:   

Cut 6 billion in spending on the NHS... How do you manage that without reducing quality and throwing thousands out onto the dole queues?
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:40 pm:   

http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand/Big_Society.aspx
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:42 pm:   

But they say they will be spending more!
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand/Health.aspx

I wonder if my prejudice towards them is old. I've grumbled about them getting back in without even looking. Sigh...
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:44 pm:   

'Introduce a voluntary insurance scheme so that people are no longer forced to sell their homes if they need residential care.'
This sounds good.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.129.15
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:49 pm:   

I've decided I am sick of being miserable and negative and will embrace any goo I will find.
Or even good.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:57 pm:   

Embrace the goo! I've been rewatching GHOSTBUSTERS, which is so shambolic it'd never be made today.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:57 pm:   

"Cut the cost of NHS beaurocracy by a third"

i.e. sack as many administrators as they can get away with sacking despite the fact that means information standards will plummett and you'll be injected with the wrong drugs because your medical records have been mixed up.

Plus puts me out on my arse

Whooppee
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 06:01 pm:   

Embrace the goo...indeed. Embrace it.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.143.99.121
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 06:07 pm:   

goo is the nearest we shall ever get to good
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 06:41 pm:   

or God.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.143.99.121
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 07:30 pm:   

Only if goo is always spelt with a G rather than a g?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 07:37 pm:   

"God is a gas." -- Alan Partridge
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.72
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 07:42 pm:   

Which series was that? So many lines in Partridge, it's a wonder I have time to laugh through fear I'll miss hearing something even funnier than the last line.

"Back of the net!"
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.244.132
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 11:48 pm:   

That was from KNOWING ME, KNOWING YULE, the Christmas special.
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 188.147.240.214
Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2010 - 12:48 am:   

That's why I don't recognise it. I've never seen it. Is that the one where he broadcasts from a house full of guests and extras?
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Mark_samuels (Mark_samuels)
Username: Mark_samuels

Registered: 04-2010
Posted From: 86.145.226.3
Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2010 - 01:28 am:   

Conservative+Liberal=CONIBERAL.

Which seems like CANNIBAL.

I'm saying nothing more...

That's all.


Mark S.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.172.184.103
Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2010 - 01:53 pm:   

Con-Demmed indeed.

BTW, on my Maggie Clegg Blogg I put that TS Eliot quote into this context one day before The Times did:
as I prove here:
http://weirdmonger.blog-city.com/maggie_clegg_cameron_clegg_coalition_tory_liber al.htm
and that blog itself is beginning to make a National stir!
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.29.110
Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2010 - 01:54 pm:   

"That's why I don't recognise it. I've never seen it. Is that the one where he broadcasts from a house full of guests and extras?"

Yes, Tony Hayers is in it. It's pretty good.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, May 17, 2010 - 11:49 am:   

CONIBERAL - that's brilliant and what I'll be calling them from now on! Nice one, Mark.

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