| Author | Message | ||
     Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.214 |
I'm looking for a film with a western setting where an indian girl turns out to be a goddess (if I remember correctly). She is found in a totally destroyed camp, apparently a victim, but odd things start to happen to the rescue party almost immediately. I'm sure it has been discussed here before. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Was it a 70s film featuring the rescue party being bumped off one-by-one by half-glimpsed figures who shoot arrows with a strange insignia on? I have subliminal memories of a western horror film like that from my youth. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
You're sure it's not Earl Smith's Shadow of Chikara (1977) where Sondra Locke is the personification of the demon spirit and Joe Don Baker is the leader of the team who 'rescue' her? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
That;s the one, JLP. I recently bought the crappy quality Vipco DVD, just so I could see the film again. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
What's the one I'm thinking of...? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Haven't a clue, but can anyone remember Welcome to Blood City? I wish they'd release that on DVD... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.214 |
It must be Shadow of Chikara. I distinctly remember the scene with the arrows. The film ends with the entire rescue party decimated and the girl pretending to be a victim once again. That final shot of her stealing a covert glance at her new 'rescuers' is very powerful. So it's available on dvd? | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Hubert - it's meant to be 2.35:1 aspect but as Zed is alluding to the only version I know is a crappy pan and scan Region 2 Vipco release called (I think) Curse of Demon Mountain. I'm not a big fan of Sasdy's Welcome to Blood City . It was supposed to be an Amicus film you know, but then so was the film version of Guy N Smith's Night of the Crabs! Another Horror Western worth checking out is Grim Prairie Tales with James Earl Jones & Brad Dourif (co-funded by the BBC!) | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER also leans strongly towards being a horror western. It isn't just a weird storyline, but much of the imagery is grotesque: the demented bad guys, the extreme brutality of the killings, the town painted red and called 'Hell', etc. I remember having a shouting argument with a friend at school after we first saw it, in which he angrily insisted that it didn't have supernatural undertones, and that it was basically a parody of Clint Eastwood's earlier characters. But having seen it many times since then, I still don't think the average man on the street would view it as anything other than a ghost story. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 213.81.124.24 |
THE BEGUILED is quite creepy as well although I don't remember any supernatural elements. The JONAH HEX comic was influenced by Eastwood westerns and had a similar weird vibe to it. But it seems the upcoming film has ditched that in favour of full-on supernatural elements and OTT Hollywood blockbuster action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2AS9DjwR-o | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
I'm still holding out for Man of the West as a horror western. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 213.81.124.24 |
The Gary Cooper film? Don't remember any horror elements in that. I'll have to watch it again. Ride the High Country has some creepy moments but not really enough to count as horror. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Thanks, Hubert & JLP, that is the film I remember - though vaguely as I was only a kid. Something very haunting about it stuck in my mind over all these years and I'd dearly love to see it again now. I really enjoyed 'Ravenous' as a horror western. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Anyone remember an ultra-violent revenge western called JOHNNY FIRECLOUD? It was screened as part of a late night season of bloodthirsty westerns called THE SAVAGE WEST back in the 1970s. Only in that era of rampant political incorrectness could such a movie ever have made it onto the telly. Others screened as part of that legendary season included: CHATO'S LAND, NEVADA SMITH, SOLDIER BLUE and A TOWN CALLED 'BASTARD'. But JF, which was about a lone Apache's punishment of the posse who slew his folks by ritually torturing them all to death, was easily the most brutal. So much so that it was regularly discussed in horror mags of that period. It's so long since I've seen it that I can't vouch for whether it's any good or not. Most likely it would be classed as trash cinema or a video nasty these days, but I still remember one horribly graphic image - a guy with his eyes slit open, buried to his neck in an ants' nest, and the ants swarming all over his shrieking head. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
What about The Hunting Party - Don Medford's Western from 1971? I remember that being pretty politically incorrect, although I have to admit the only bit of that I remember is star Gene Hackman torturing some pretty young thing with a naked flame. Oh, and Chato's Land had a great poster line: Whoever Chato's Land Doesn't Kill, Chato Will | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Man of the West was actually the first film I discussed in my Video Watchdog column. I thought the monstrous family prefigured Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Johnny Firecloud is pretty relentless (as, certainly, is the Anthony Mann), but Cutthroats Nine is yet more extreme. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Good lord, it's being remade... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1653000/news#ni2475319 | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.72 |
Dead Birds which I mentioned a few years ago, is probably one the most recent western/horror/supernatural films. It's a gem. Beautifully made, top-notch performances. I always recommend this movie to people. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
God, I remember that Savage West season as one of the happiest memories of my youth. They don't make horror or westerns or crime thrillers like they did back in the 1970s, what a marvellous decade... bloody political correctness, grrrr. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.25.54.48 |
I see that High Plains Drifter is on Five, Thursday 9pm this week. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.214 |
The Missouri Breaks has its weird moments as well. Brando's extravagant killer is unforgettable, as is the final moment between Brando and Nicholson. Thanks for the other titles. I do remember seeing The Beguiled and High Plains Drifter, as well as the film about the lone Apache's revenge. He put a bag full of angry rattlesnakes over a man's head, didn't he? Another victim was towed across the desert into a nasty cactus field. But I don't remember the title. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Anyone remember this film? I only recall one scene: Burt Lancaster is a cavalry officer sent out to save a family stranded after indians attacked their wagon. He and his squad are attacked by indians, and he always told his young sidekick to shoot the women in such an instance because it was better than what would be done to them by the indians. the young officer shoots the woman as he's ridign away, then falls off his horse. as the indians approach he eats a bullet. Been trying to find the title of this one for decades... | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Hubert, I think the one you remember was called CRY BLOOD, APACHE! Similar in theme to JOHNNY FIRECLOUD, but a little less violent. JF was so blood-soaked that it really belongs in the exploitation bracket. A much better quality western but with a similar theme of Apache torture was ULZANNA'S RAID, in which Burt Lancaster gave his best ever performance (IMO) as an ageing scout charged by the army with one last mission to bring in a war-chief who had gone on a revenge-fuelled killing spree after the deaths of his sons. Again it was ultra violent, and filled with horrific torture - though it was mainly the aftermath of this that you saw on screen. A very frightening western, but also very grown-up and delving far more deeply than the others we've mentioned into the disastrous culture clash between the whites and the reds. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Zed - only just seen your last post. Check mine. That's the movie you're looking for - ULZANNA'S RAID. It's a cracker, but very grim. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Beware of the British DVD: http://www.dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=6522 | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
'Ulzana's Raid' is one of Robert Aldrich's very best films and, I agree, Lancaster has never been better - equally as good but never better. Brutal and bloodsoaked like all the best 70s westerns. 'The Missouri Breaks' is another much watched favourite and Arthur Penn's best after 'Bonnie And Clyde' imo. 'Barquero' (1970) with Lee Van Cleef & Warren Oates, 'Posse' (1975) with Kirk Douglas & 'The Last Hard Men' (1976) with Charlton Heston & James Coburn are more great westerns in the same gritty, violent vein. Gotta love that decade!! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Ulzana's Raid is brilliant, but I always get it mixed up with the one where Burt Lancaster plays an indian...is that Chato's Land? so many similar films were made around that time. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Ramsey...thinking about it, I believe I own the ravaged UK DVD. :-/ | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Lancaster plays an Apache in the movie called APACHE, but I think that comes from a slightly earlier era. CHATO'S LAND has Charles Bronson as a wronged red man leading Jack Palance's murderous Confederate posse further and further from water and help, and then, killing them slowly, one by one. I think Michael Winner directed it. It also features, quite chillingly, the guy who played Pa in THE WALTONS as one of the most evil killers you'll ever see. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
'Chato's Land' is one of the films Michael Winner should always be applauded for imo and stars Charles Bronson at his most intimidating - very much a horror-western like the other apache revenge flicks mentioned above. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Ah, yes. Which is the one with Lancaster as an unconvincing indian, then? I've seen all of these many times, but they all blend into one big mad film in my head. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Sorry, Paul - just saw your response. Ta, mate. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
What about the one with Lee Marvin hunting the big white buffalo? That's great, that is. And the one with Lee Marvin hunting a bloke (Charles Bronson?) in the mountains. These two films always blened into one for me. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
'Apache' (1954) was another one of the great, and criminally underrated, Robert Aldrich's classic westerns - again with Burt Lancaster. Funny thing is he was highly praised after the release of that film for having made an intelligent, progressive western showing empathy and understanding for the then demonised apaches but after 'Ulzana's Raid' he was lambasted for being reactionary and regressive because he dared to show apaches raping and torturing whites. This, even though he went out of his way to make both films as historically accurate as possible lol. The man is one of my all-time cinema heroes and his masterpiece remains 'Kiss Me Deadly' (1955) - the greatest noir detective thriller ever made imho. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 220.138.160.234 |
More recently there's The Burrowers, of course. I remember a strange one from the 80s called Eyes of Fire. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
I think it was Charles Bronson hunting the white buffalo - in a film called THE WHITE BUFFALO. If memory serves, he was playing Wild Bill Hickock. That movie was full of eerie dream sequences and native American mysticism. Not sure whether it came out before or after the Ted Nugent song of the same name. The 'Mounties' one did indeed have Lee Marvin hunting trapper Charles Bronson for murdering a bunch of guys who were organising dog-fights. Can't remember what that one was called, but it was yet another of these FIRST BLOOD type outings, with sympathetic cops on the trail of a misunderstood but very dangerous fugitive. Pure Hollywood hokum of course. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
We should also remember Sam Peckinpah's classic British western, STRAW DOGS, which I always include in my list of favourite horror movies because the levels of intimidation - both of the two heroes and the audience - intensify steadily until by the end of the film it's a case of unadulterated terror. STRAWN DOGS is a typically visceral 1970s movie, in which all notions of humanity and civilisation are thrown away in a struggle to the death with the most loathsome (but completely plausible) force of evil. The 'wild bunch' - as they appear in STRAW DOGS, Del Henney, Ken Hutchinson, Peter Vaughn, etc - are totally reminiscent of the macho, knuckle-dragging bullies that real people encounter every day, and that's what makes it so scary. One particular scene is among the most hair-raising ever. After the girl goes missing, the villains all gather in the fog-bound pub, and, to the tolling of a bell and the endless droning of a distant foghorn, neck one treble whiskey after another, gradually working up a quiet but homicidal rage. There is no dialogue, but everyone else in the pub is utterly terrified. That is one of the great scenes in horror. And in westerns, if you know what I mean. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.111.142.82 |
'That is one of the great scenes in horror. And in westerns, if you know what I mean.' Definately. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.111.142.82 |
And they are remaking or have remade Straw Dogs. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Eyes of Fire...blimey, Huw, I expect only you, me and Lord P will have seen that one.  The Straw Dogs is brilliant. I love Peckinpah, and this is one of his best. Genuinely scary. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 82.18.203.76 |
Picked up both the DVD and the novel of Straw Dogs recently but haven't got round to looking at either yet. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
You're talking my type of movie with bells on when it comes to 'Straw Dogs'. You're so right, Paul, it is a horror movie in disguise - kind of like an anti-'Wicker Man' with the country yokels as thuggish as any big city louts. I don't think Sam Peckinpah ever made a less than outstanding movie - even his "minor" works are riveting explorations of the alpha male psyche at its most destructive and noble. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
it is a horror movie in disguise I disagree. There's no disguise there. It's a horror movie through-and-through. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
A horror movie dressed up as an urban thriller cum western set in the good old English countryside! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I always saw it as a horror film. But, like the Landlord, my definition of horror is very broad. | ||
| Barbara Roden (Nebuly) Username: Nebuly Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 142.179.22.63 |
Paul said 'The 'Mounties' one did indeed have Lee Marvin hunting trapper Charles Bronson for murdering a bunch of guys who were organising dog-fights. Can't remember what that one was called, but it was yet another of these FIRST BLOOD type outings, with sympathetic cops on the trail of a misunderstood but very dangerous fugitive. Pure Hollywood hokum of course.' You're thinking of DEATH HUNT, which isn't quite 'pure Hollywood hokum' inasmuch as it's based (very loosely) on a true story: that of 'Albert Johnson', the 'mad trapper of Rat River'. In late 1931 a man calling himself Albert Johnson (almost certainly an alias) arrived in the Mackenzie River delta area of the Northwest Territories. He built himself a cabin and kept very much to himself, until the local RCMP had to question him regarding allegations that he was vandalising the traps of some Natives in the area. Johnson was uncooperative, and police had to return with a warrant, at which point Johnson shot, unprovoked, at one of the officers, wounding him. On a subsequent visit, intended to flush Johnson out of his cabin and arrest him, the policeman in charge was shot and killed by Johnson, who then fled, sparking a huge manhunt. For more than six weeks a team of police and Natives tracked Johnson through some of the most rugged terrain in Canada; eventually Canadian bush pilot legend Wop May (who had been involved in the WWI dogfight that brought down the Red Baron) was brought in, and with his help the pursuers cornered Johnson on a frozen river and shot him dead. To this day no one is certain who Johnson really was, why he fled to the Canadian north, and why he displayed such a hatred of police. The Bronson film makes Johnson a sympathetic loner and turns him into the hero of the piece, and also plays fast and loose with the characters of Edgar Millen, the police officer killed by Johnson, and Wop May (renamed Hank Tucker). | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
What an amazing story - truth, fiction, etc! Thanks for that, Barbara. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Very interesting indeed, that, Barbara. When talking about 'Hollywood hokum', I'm referring to the 'sympathetic loner' bit, which you yourself highlight as fantasy. In my own police days, I once spent a week with an Australian Federal Police officer who had formerly been attached to a fugitive pursuit unit based in the Northern Territories. Several times he'd been on manhunts through the outback. Often, the cops in these extreme offroad situations were on horseback and would rely on Aborigine scouts, but that made it no less dangerous, especially if the target was armed. My Aussie pal basically rubbished the idea that these situations forge a kind of bond between the hunter and the hunted. Far from coming to empathise with their quarry, the pursuit officers tended to get progressively twitchier the further from civilisation they were led. It's no surprise that not all of these pursuits ended happily. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.230.214 |
I see that Curse of Demon Mountain is on YouTube. The quality and sound are quite good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6zcneS7d_Q | ||
| Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin) Username: Richard_gavin Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 65.110.174.71 |
Some great films mentioned here. I love those gritty, gothic westerns too. As do two of my good friends... Gemma Files released A Book of Tongues at Brighton, which is the first in her two-novel Hexslinger series of weird westerns. And as Ramsey mentioned, Cutthroats Nine is coming out next year, thanks to my friend Rodrigo Gudino, who's writing and directing it. I know remakes make people nervous (and rightly so), but I have every confidence in Rodrigo. He understands and loves this genre, so his version should be fantastic. Funnily enough, I'm also in the midst of writing a supernatural western story. Who'd of thought that a bunch of canucks would be so influenced by the wild west? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
I have a weird western appearing in a major anthology next year. I can't say anything more, but it promises to be an amazing collection of horror/western fiction. | ||
| Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin) Username: Richard_gavin Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 65.110.174.71 |
Well, la-dee-da, Mr. Fancypants!  I kid of course, Zed. That's fantastic news. I don't think there's been a horror/western anthology since Joe Lansdale's Razored Saddles. I'll be keeping my eye out for this one. I'm hoping my own weird western turns out all right, but right now I'm too happily engrossed in it to worry about the end result. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
 All I can tell you is that the anthology will be called GUT SHOTS and is due to be published in 2011. | ||
| Darren O. Godfrey (Darren_o_godfrey) Username: Darren_o_godfrey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 207.200.116.133 |
I have a weird western that will supposedly be published in Doorways Magazine. Doesn't look promising, though. The Doorway seems to've been barred... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Hey, Darren. How's it going, mate? I mentioned you to Etchison at World Horror this year - finally got to meet the man. He said to say hello, and he wants to talk to you about The Hurt Locker. | ||
| Darren O. Godfrey (Darren_o_godfrey) Username: Darren_o_godfrey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 207.200.116.133 |
Hey Zed! I was hoping you'd get to meet the Etchison-man! He and I got to talking about my other former career (explosive ordnance disposal) and I'd mentioned how Hollywood gets so much wrong in regards to that stuff. He said maybe an article should be written about it. (This was quite a while before Hurt Locker's release.) Myself, I don't think it would be of much interest to most movie-goers, though. Hollywood gets so much wrong about so many things... Hope you're doing well, buddy. I'm off to toil in the fields. | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.153.166.193 |
Ah yes, I also loved those ultra-violent un pc 70's Westerns! Bruce Dern positively reeked of evil in 'Posse' and the casual torture of 'Ulzana's Raid' was the talking point in school next day. Two more Lancaster favourites are 'The lawman' and 'Valdez is coming'. |