| Author | Message | ||
     Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
We're having fun working our way through all the Friday the 13th movies and even though we know better than to analyse too deeply, we can't help it. In Part 3 Jason dons the famous hockey mask, having stolen it from the token geek character. But why? In Part 2 we saw his hideous mutilated face. He wore a bag with one hole cut out for what's presumably his one good eye. So he can barely see anyway - why would he wear ANY kind of mask? Surely he isn't ashamed of his appearance. How would he even know what he looks like? Or care? For that matter, why does he wear clothes? Last night was Part 4, the (yeah, right) Final Chapter. Highlights included: * the brilliant Crispin Glover in the most hilarious dance sequence ever. (Hand over that Creepshow crown, Ed Harris!) * a glimpse of Cory Feldman playing Zaxxon (blast from my 80s past) * and lots of self-indulgent Tom Savini bits that had nothing to do with the story (thank God or the film would have been irretrievably dull) In this one Jason showed he has astonishing skill and accuracy with any type of weapon AND the stealth of a Special Forces operative. Not bad for a half-blind mutant-zombie-whatever-the-hell-he's-meant-to-be. But why, when he's taken to the morgue at the beginning, after being "killed" by the Final Girl at the end of Part 3, is he still wearing the mask? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Lord, now you're making me want to see the wretched films... | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
The only sequence worth a candle in the whole series is when he cuts off the heads of those paintballing real estate agents. What's that? They're not real estate agents? No matter. They were for me. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
Kate, you could turn all that in a decent proposition for a PhD. Just call it postmodern and ironic and write it in a meta/reflexive style, and the funds will flow. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
Why is he an uber large zombie thing when he died at age nine? that always bugged me. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.255.44 |
Note how in every film from the mask on, you get to see his face sans mask exactly once. It became a convention of the series. Maybe it's a predatory tactic of Jason's. If he has no mask, and you happen to catch a glimpse of him or see him as he's pursuing you, your mind will go "Yaaaaugh!" and you'll get a nice injection of adrenaline and be all the harder to catch. But with the mask, there's that constant bit of hesitation as the human mind, ever curious, is arrested, even for a moment, to wonder what's beneath it... the mind is that tiny bit slowed-down, from a sense of not-knowing... and the hunter uses that confusion and curiosity to his advantage.... | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
Or maybe its a steaming pile of donky doo doo | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.61.177 |
But, but "Zaxxon"! Loved it! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
>>>>But with the mask, there's that constant bit of hesitation as the human mind, ever curious, is arrested, even for a moment, to wonder what's beneath it... the mind is that tiny bit slowed-down, from a sense of not-knowing... and the hunter uses that confusion and curiosity to his advantage... That's right, because if I saw a seven foot man in a boiler suit covered in blood, wearing an expressionless mask and carrying a fucking big cleaver, my first response would be curiosity. I mean, I'd be sympathising with cats at once, even as my head bounced down the lane. Neural twitches, you know: my lips muttering, "Well now, I wonder what was under that mask . . . Ak, I'll never know now, ho hum . . . " | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
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| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Gosh, I never realised how sophisticated Jason was! Maybe tonight's screening of Part 5: A New Beginning will yield some more insights. | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
I have not now, nor have I ever, seen a single one of the on-going Friday the 13th… saga. This thread is more entertaining than the films, probably, but the cinema institution which re-introduced 'triskaidekaphobia' to the common lexicon is also another corner-stone in the "all horror is a gore-fest" attitude which still burbles away in the bottom of my psyche, and causes people to suggest that "horror isn't real literature". Sorry... little to do with the question of 'why does he wear a mask, or anything else for that matter'. Just needlessly weighing-in as usual. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.228.40 |
I have not now, nor have I ever, seen a single one of the on-going Friday the 13th… saga. Same here. Did I miss anything? I did enjoy the first Halloween, however. Remarkable how much can be done with so little. I confess I have a weak spot for Bloody Bird, Pieces and Sleepaway Camp as well. | ||
| Matthew Fryer (Matthew_fryer) Username: Matthew_fryer Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 90.202.180.87 |
He wears a mask to give the franchise an iconic face I imagine. And it looks cool. My favourite murder is in part VIII when he punches the boxer's head off his shoulders, and it rolls down the roof and into a bin. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.176.63.115 |
Matthew cuts to the heart of the matter while the rest of us flounder with inanities.  | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
If I was in a line of work where people tended to throw machetes and axes at my head I'm damn sure I'd be wanting a hockey mask, at least! The only surprise is that he didn't go the whole hog and get himself a suit of armour. They must be fairly scarce around Camp Crystal Lake, mind... | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Double bill tonight of Parts 5 (wholly forgettable rubbish) and 6 (loads of fun). We didn't learn much, unfortunately. Oh, except that in Part 6 Jason is returned to the place where he died (originally) in Camp Crystal Lake (renamed Forest Green Lake, as we learn in a fantastic bit of exposition/backstory by the sheriff), but he's still not dead at the end. Probably because that's where BOY Jason died. MAN Jason was killed by Cory Feldman in Part 3 in the basement of a house. So maybe that's where it all went wrong. This rare interview doesn't shed much more light: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09yOZsZuxMY&feature=related Perhaps Parts 7 and 8 (and 9, 10 and however many more there were) will solve the mystery. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.135.8 |
Jason wears the mask because it's essential to his role as an 'iconic' folk-devil. The 'slasher movie' depends on the dehumanisation of the 'psychokiller' (one word), who can never be simply a disturbed human being, he always has to be part-human and part-monster. More recently we have become so conditioned to the stereotype of the 'serialkiller' (one word) that it doesn't need a mask, we can see its inhumanity from its eyes and its axe. Have I mentioned how much I despise slasher movies? They are partly responsible for the way in which the mentally ill live under the constant threat of violence. They reinforce and encourage the equation of mental illness with dehumanised violence and being a 'monster'. | ||
| Almills (Almills) Username: Almills Registered: 05-2010 Posted From: 98.113.86.160 |
Like the masks in Scream, Halloween, Blood and Black Lace, or even Eyes without a Face, they hall have eerie connections with the pale, unmoving skull; the killers function as agents of death, and present themselves likewise. I doubt there's a practical answer, and even if there was, I think it'd be much more satisfying (or terrifying) if the motive of masking remains enigmaticly deragned, illogical, and unanswered. What's more important with the masks, I think, is the effect or mood... the masks really just amp suspense-- provoking, "oh what's he really look like?" As King writes in Danse Macabre, the monster's always scarier before you open the door. The masks build tension, for we want to uncover the mask-- and our imagination makes it much more horrifying when unseen. I'm curious about Joel's remark right above. I agree slashers may reinforce a societal stereotype of mental illness as monstrous- especially the less-intelligent garbage (if that isn't all of it). But some (perhaps like Argento's Deep Red or Tenebre, or even the film that started it all, Psycho) I think imply how we're all suseptible to "go a little mad sometimes." That's really just a defense of a few slasher films, but you've got an interesting point.} | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.59.1 |
"They reinforce and encourage the equation of mental illness with dehumanised violence and being a 'monster'." Yes. It's the casting the shadow outside of " "civilised" "society" " [sic, with the quotes] onto a minority, rather than facing the possibility that the potential for horror is within society, within all of us. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.59.1 |
"It's casting the shadow..." | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.250.70 |
Gary -  - despite mangling my point. Joel, I greatly enjoy mindless slasher flicks. It has nothing to do with the mentally-ill, and I have no intention of going around slashing anyone (and one can't be both sympathetic to the mentally-ill as being unfairly stereotyped by these flicks, and still think my love of slasher films somehow mentally damaging, btw). I just genuinely enjoy watching play killers going around play killing play cardboard-flat bad actors in grisly ways. I mean, come on... is that really such a bad thing...? | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.250.70 |
Btw: Have what the voices are chanting in the infamous theme song to these FRIDAY THE 13TH films been officially revealed? I've always thought it was "Ja"[reverb-echo], "son"[reverb-echo]. Right? | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.225.27 |
Put like that, no. At the other end of the spectrum, I love Psycho – its 'killer' is absolutely human, and there's one Bates moment I identify with totally (no, not the shower scene). | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.225.27 |
Sorry, posts crossed. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.250.70 |
Is it when he's staring through that hole in the wall...? | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Joel, I fear you're taking the sub-genre far more seriously than it should be taken. Slasher films are just what Craig describes - mindless fun. For me they're a true guilty pleasure. I know they're silly and ridiculous and I ultimately prefer "real" horror films, but I grew up with Jason, Freddy and Michael Myers so I've got a soft spot for them. It would never occur to me to equate anything in what Roger Ebert calls a "dead teenager movie" with the mentally ill and that argument is too close to the "horror movies promote/provoke violence" argument for my comfort. Anyone who would attack the mentally ill because of something they saw in Friday the 13th Part 39: Jason vs. the Terminator is already seriously messed up. If slasher flicks unfairly malign anyone, it's teenagers. Surely they're not ALL that stupid! | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
Romeo & Juliet is the perfect "dead teenager story" in that they both are dead at the end of the thing, plus a few more people. Why in blazes do people say it's a romantic tale? THEY'RE BOTH ASS-FACED STUPID GITS WITH THEIR BRAINS PLANTED FIRMLY IN THEIR OWN LAPS! So, basically, if you don't recall being that stupid as a teen-ager, then you're rare. At least according to the story-tellers. Were they just down the road from you? Were they in the same home room as you? Did you date? On the night before the wedding, two friends showed up at the house with two cases of beer and So I Married an Axe Murderer.... I spent the first reel ironing my clothes for next day. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.238.186 |
Kate, to some extent I was prompted by a recent public information film shown in cinemas that declares 'PSYCHO – INSIDE THE WARPED MIND OF A LUNATIC' and then introduces us to a schizophrenic man making a cup of tea. But I've been saying the same thing for over twenty years: slasher films contribute to a popular stigmatisation of mental illness. That doesn't mean they are directly responsible for the very high levels of violence against the mentally ill, but they really don't help. They reinforce a certain vocabulary and set of assumptions. It's taken for granted that anyone with mental health issues is dangerous and liable to sudden violence. There is a climate of fear, guilt and disgust around mental illness, and inhuman screen 'psychos' are a part of that. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.176.230.109 |
I think you're right, Joel, but the bottom line is that I object to slasher films because on the whole they're shit. | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Rom-coms reinforce the assumption that all women are unfulfilled until they find Mr Right and settle down to breed. And they're mostly shit too. I hear you, Joel. I just don't fully agree.  | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
I'm afraid that when I saw the fake Schizo trailer at the cinema - that's its title, I think not Psycho - I was driven to reflect that I knew one person who was murdered, my friend John Roles the bookseller, and one person whose friend was murdered, the cellist across the road whose violinist colleague was stabbed to death in the street. Both were victims of the mentally ill, and the main thing I took from that trailer was that they didn't seem to let the chap have a knife in his kitchen, unless I overlooked it. Oh, and Steve, who lives next door to the cellist, was punched in the face by one of the service users of the community supported living facility adjoining my house, because Steve confronted the service user over constantly following Steve's teenager daughter in the street (she had called her father on her mobile to intervene). | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
Thing is, many of us FEEL mentally ill much of the time. And it's odd, but I never hate Jason; there's always an element of pity for him. But the mask; it's an old thing. Phantom of the Opera had it. Even good guys wear them. For me they raise the human to something above, add something metaphysical. We have a friend whose friend was murdered by her dad. 'She felt bad about being raped and wanted to die' he said. He stabbed her about thirty six times and drove round with her in his boot for two days. And another chap we knew at this caravan site, he reckoned his daughter was murdered. He used to be bright and cheery but just sort of wasted away (it didn't help that some cleaners played a trick on him, replaced his drink with cleaning fluid; he ended up in hospital and looked terrible after.). Murder and killing has been in drama forever. I work with the mentally ill and folk with special needs but never feel a connection between them and Jason and co. That said, there have been too many cases of late of kids being affected by horror films. Not solely by them, but surely nudged in bad directions. Kate - tell me when you get up to Jason Goes to Hell, yeah? I reached there recently. After that does anyone fancy a Freddy season, leaving Freddy v Jason till last? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
>>>Rom-coms reinforce the assumption that all women are unfulfilled until they find Mr Right and settle down to breed. You mean, they're not? Shit. I'm afraid I've taken Richard Curtis as my Bible, as my guidance in life. No wonder I still live in a bedsit eating baked beans for me tea and watching Channel 4 in me undies. Mind you, I was definitely on with that girl last night - she didn't even phone the police. That's always a telltale sign. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"That said, there have been too many cases of late of kids being affected by horror films. Not solely by them, but surely nudged in bad directions." Which cases are those? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
The ones in the Daily Mail, perhaps? Let's all blame societies ills on horror films. Again. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.66.22 |
These are extreme (and terrible) cases, but I think Joel's point stands. PSYCHO IV is, astonishly, the second best in the series because it takes the time to understand Norman Bates. It's written by Joseph Stefano too. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.66.22 |
So now there's a rush to defend horror films, but not the mentally ill? Sheesh. (Sorry, that "now" was a bit tabloid, wasn't it?) | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.66.22 |
I've enjoyed slasher films too, though... | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
Left, right, left, right, Left, right, left, right, Left, right, left, right, Left, right, left, right, Left, right, left, right, It's the RCMB march! All welcome! | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
So was "rush". I simply asked for clarification. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Left, right, left, right, stumble...stutter...fall.  | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.231.77 |
Charming neighbourhood you live in, Ramsey. And I was under the impression that it was a quiet, pleasant street in suburbia . . . By the way, just what exactly is a 'community supported living facility'? A home for the homeless? I ask because I did a couple years of social work in the recent past. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
The Hell boys, the two boys who beat those other little kids up and tortured them. They were encouraged to watch SAW films and the like by their father. And the Bulger killers. There's been others, but I'll have to look. I hope folk don't think this is me getting all Mary Whitehouse - all I'm saying is that if a parent shows to his kid he thinks it's ok to let them watch this stuff then the kid picks up on that moral looseness and goes along with it. It's like if a parents smokes or swears, the kid will copy. It's no different to that. I think they can make a person with problems worse, I hasten to add, not someone who's generally ok. We can't deny the power of advertising, after all, and that works on the same principle. Psycho IV is a lovely film. Yes, second best. And if it means anything I let my kids watch horror, just not anything there is. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
What you're talking about, Tony, is a complete lack of parental guidance. That's more dangerous than any film (or other form of media). And you're right; these people help create what their children become. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061031113446.htm It's both. For instance if the horrible adults let their kids watch Ken Loach films instead they might gain more insight into themselves and their parents. The horror films 'add' to things. I really believe it. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.66.22 |
"Left, right, left, right" I don't think so, Gary. I'm unable to catagorise anyone in this debate with those views. Perhaps there's a libertarian/conservative divide, but it's not a clear one and I think the divide runs through us as thinking individuals rather than just through the group. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
Sorry, was just joshing, as usual. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
The horror films 'add' to things. I really believe it. Tony, in this context you're right, of course. No responsible adult would allow their kids a diet of 18-rated horror films. It can't do anything else but have a negative influence. Jesus, I woyuld't let me six year-old anywhere near most of the stuff I watch... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
More proof, if it were needed. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_violent_movies_effect_children | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.66.22 |
"Effect/Affect" - that's one for the other thread... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
It's daft to think horror film solely causes murder or violence, I'd never agree to that. But surely it'd be naive to think it played no part whatsoever. We all know how powerfully images and ideas can capture the imagination otherwise we wouldn't be into it to the level we are. And at the right age reality and illusion are almost the same thing. Heck, half the time I'm imaginary to myself... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
"Effect/Affect" Ha - I saw that. We had a big local paper here recently that had an article on 'the gipsies', gipsies being spelt that way all the way through. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"And the Bulger killers." No. Shiela Fogarty, the BBC reporter who was in court throughout the case, told me that horror films were never mentioned in evidence, including any of the Child's Play films. The only person to mention them, without any basis in anything heard in court, was the judge in his summing-up. The other two boys - were they not fed cannabis from an early age? How accurate has any report been? Which films did they really watch? I honestly don't know. I used to trust the Telegraph for accurate reporting, but here it is purveying the same inaccurate stuff about Chucky: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7064867/Edlington-attacks-Families- of-tortured-boys-call-for-attackers-parents-to-face-trial.html The wiki.answers page - Tony, are you pulling my leg? One answer reads "sometime if teens because if they do not listen to their parents they will become violent themselves." Are you honestly citing this kind of thing as any kind of proof? As to the scientific report, it begins "Toddlers and young children who watch violent movies, including Halloween horror films, television shows or video games may be more likely to develop anxiety, sleep disorders, and aggressive and self-endangering behaviors." May be more likely - as far as I can see, this is an expression of opinion, admittedly based on a study of seventy-six people with a particular disorder. Forgive me - I wouldn't subject my family to any example of the narrow propagandist vision of Ken Loach, but that's just me. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 61.216.49.14 |
I agree with Ramsey. That 'wikianswers' stuff is the worst kind of meaningless drivel which, unfortunately, is all too common on the web (and certainly not 'proof' of anything, except of how much garbled nonsense exists). | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
Er, I was joking with the wiki answers. I'm gullible. And I clutched at Ken Loach a bit quickly - I could have thought of another non-horror director a moment later. Horror has no effect - I dunno what I'm talking about, really. Just echoing, coming out with thoughts connected to feelings that are unfounded. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
Horror's lovely. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
Football causes far more violence than horror films. When was the last time you heard of a riot in the streets after people watched a film? | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 217.20.16.180 |
"Sooo, Jason Voorhees! JV himself! The Big V! You know all of our viewers are asking themselves the same question - what's with the mask? We know you don't need it - you're an undead zombie serial killer, for chrissake. So what's the score?" "You know, running through the woods at night... those little twigs on the trees that whip back into your face... well they really smart! Apologies for not engaging with the more cerebral debate above. | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
The whole argument falls down when you consider that we don't all identify with the killer/villain in a horror film. Violent films certainly haven't made ME aggressive. | ||
| Skip Novak (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
I like this, trying to make sense of Slasher flicks. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
The rigid, expressionless mask on the unstoppable killing machine has always been an iconic scary image in horror cinema & TV, going right back to the Mummy and the cybermen of 'Doctor Who'. Notice how they all stride along so slowly but determinedly, it's the horror of implacable pursuit and never fails to send a shudder down my spine. I've watched all the 'Friday The 13th' series and, after the first two, they plumb the depths of lowest common denominator shit, but the image of Jason in his hockey mask is nevertheless a scary one, a true modern bogeyman imo. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Violent films actually make me less aggressive. I do agree with Tony's point about young kids being force-fed violent images by irresponsible parents can only have a negative effect. That's just common sense. There are, however, hundreds of other factors - or triggers - that combine to result in violent behaviour. I think it was Proto who said on here a while ago that images entering our brain are bound to affect us. Of course they are. But so is the rest of the sensory stimuli we are bombarded with every hour of the day and night. Nothing is simple; everything's linked. Oh, and yeah, the Child's Play "evidence" in the Bulger case is well-documented to be false. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.231.77 |
I recall trying out some of Odd Job's karate tricks on some hapless schoolmate after I'd seen Goldfinger with my mom, back in 1965. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
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| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
We ARE the things we see and hear. It's obvious. And yes, Zed, I wasn't saying horror films alone make us nuts, but that combined with other factors they can nudge things along. If simple things like a bit of loud music or horrible decor or graffitti can do it so can horror. It's like people are wanting me to say horror sucks or is worthless, which I'm not and won't. As for picking apart slasher films it's what we do as artists and creative types; we can't switch the analytical faculty off, and shouldn't. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
You mean, serve as an accelerant for what would probably happen anyway? I think that's probably true. I remember King saying something similar about his novel Rage. Hasn't he withdrawn the book from print? | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
Rather like Kubrick with 'A Clockwork Orange'... but I believe only the artist has the right to judge their own works, as a question of conscience. I'm dead against all forms of state censorship. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
That's it. I don't know about all of you, but I really do get right into stuff, and because of various character traits feel more at home in fictional 'places'. It's like I'm a daydreamer who got what he wanted, went where he wanted to go, only nothing else followed. And for the record I do identify with the mad killers, not because I want to kill specifically but because of their outsider nature. Come on, a few of you do, I bet! :S Kubrick withdrew Clockwork Orange, I remember that much, Gary. Yes, Rage was withdrawn. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
I don't agree with censorship but do agree with controls over availability. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
Er, we crossed threads - was replying to Gary with that first one. | ||
| Skip (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
We are trying to make sense of Slasher Films? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
No, it just triggered some things off. Who are you, anyway? | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
welcome Skip to our select little group. how are you today. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
Message boards are like little houses, and you don't just go into a house and start being all cocky and poking fun at people who have been there for years. Like I said, he never even said hi or anything. | ||
| Skip (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
Hi Everyone. Sorry, not really new to message boards and I was looking for a "Hi, my name is..." thread and this one came up and made me chuckle. I did not intend to break protocol and my sincerest apologize are sent out to all I may have offended. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
Gary - where's his welcome thread??? | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
Don't worry, you've not offended anyone | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
It's ok. We just get quite intense here sometimes. Where are you from/what do you like etc? And, um, hello, too. (You can start your own thread for this you know) | ||
| Skip (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
Weber, thanks for the welcome. I am well and trying to stay awake amongst all the construction going on outside my office. Tony, I am just a guy from Wisconsin living in Virginia who likes Sci-Fi movies, Horror Movies and well written books. I have an immense intrest in trains and railroad history. (I would put in a snarky comment about long walks on the beach and sunsets but I don't think our relationship has progressed that far.) | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Hi Skip - welcome to my thread!  | ||
| Skip (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
Hi Kate! Thanks for having me.  | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.231.77 |
A Virginian, no less. Welcome, Skip. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.0.34 |
I think we need to get some perspective on all this. These are films made by industries of people in giant corporations, and there's many more than these mere FRIDAY THE 13TH films made out there. Last I checked, execs and employees and actors at Paramount and Universal and elsewhere, are not grabbing axes and hockey masks and murdering their co-workers. The vast public watching these aren't pouring out of theaters looking for creative, artistic, visually-entertaining ways to kill their neighbors. Screenwriters penning these epics aren't flipping out and systematically dismantling with extreme prejudice, their family trees. I like to watch nut-job mentally-deranged psycho-f*cks deliver delicious poetic justice to nubile getting-more-than-I-am teens in bloodorific ways. That's all it is, Dr. Freud. By the way, I'm wondering something, as I sit here on your couch... I'm wondering... what your insides would look like, on the - wait for it! - outside.... | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Good point, Craig. Here's some more food for thought. The BBFC existed to protect us all from sex and violence because we might become rapists and murderers if exposed to it. How many of those censors subsequently went on sex and killing sprees? They were exposed to far more of it than any of us ever were, including all the censored footage - the stuff we never even got to see. | ||
| Skip (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
Thanks Hubert. Funny, I had a pet named Hubert growing up, never thought I would meet a person with that interesting name. Craig, are you channeling your inner Ed Gein? | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.0.34 |
Don't bring up those !@#@! censors, Kate, or I will grab my hockey mask and axe.... They've ruined so many films. Hey, speaking of - isn't, to the best of my knowledge, FRIDAY THE 13TH PART 2 still a bloody dissected corpse of what it was - aren't many of the gory scenes that were deleted, still deleted to this day, because of those age-old censors?... We all have an innards Ed Gein, Skip. One should very much so fear some dangerous artistic creations, however - here's a disturbing case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gpjk_MaCGM | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.0.34 |
Say, lookie what I found here! http://216.69.134.192/deletedhorrorscenes/index.htm Worth exploring, it sure looks like.... | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 212.49.212.18 |
If only they'd censor 90% of mainstream, prime-time TV. Now that would a far worthier exercise. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.231.77 |
Funny, I had a pet named Hubert growing up Let me guess. Was it a tarantula? | ||
| Skip (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
Funny, I had a pet named Hubert growing up Let me guess. Was it a tarantula? Actually it was a Dove. Unfortunatley my brothers ferret ate the head of Hubert in a quite grisly scene. Oh, I did manage to get even with my brother and his flea bag ferret. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.8.33 |
Hmm... on further inspection, and without even consulting youtube yet, I'm making a guess that site is probably obsolete, by now... oh well, the search goes on.... | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
Ah, but remember, the censors are better, more balanced people than all us movie-watching oiks.  Have you all see the documentary This Film Has Not Been Rated? One man tries to find out who the appointed moral guardians of the MPAA are. He may as well be trying to find out what's in Area 51 for all the security surrounding them. | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
Incidentally, for those of you who want to compare Ed Harris's disco moves in Creepshow with Crispin Glover in Friday the 13th Part IV... Crispin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIMj_tYfzsc Ed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDaqPw-2mM&feature=related Sadly the Ed Harris clip misses the wonderful move he uses to switch off the stereo. Now this is the kind of thing to drive people to murder. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.101.151 |
The MPAA seems a bit odd to those east of the Atlantic, but the BBFC has transformed itself into a progressive, sensible, rational organisation that's genuinely a force for good now, I believe. Ramsey, without knowing how the data were processed, "May be more likely" could be just an opinion but it's also the sort of language a good scientist would use in an executive summary to report a statistically significant positive result after performing, say, a t-test. Gary, an accelerant - that's the perfect word. | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
After watching Singing in the Rain, I want to dance like Donald O'Connor! Think of the children! STOP THE CARNAGE TODAY! Everything makes you more 'you' than before, but it's YOUR fault, not the fault of the stuff with which you come into contact. Following the line of logic by some (not here, but wack-jobs), the reason that the NASA person went off the deep end (and sho the new lover of her former one) was due to 2001: A Space Odyssey being directed by the same person as directed A Clockwork Orange, so the violent tendencies in that film seeped into the frames of the former one, and that inspired space as a career-choice, and there you have it! It's common sense, innit? I agree with Joel, to an extent, as well. Painting those with mental illness as "killing sprees waiting to happen" isn't any help with attitudes toward those who live with the problems. Reefer Madness paints dope smokers as being more akin to users of speed, yet the attitude to the material is still badly affected as a consequence. It's not entirely benign, no, but it's not as bad as either alcohol or tobacco in many ways. Likewise, depressives are hardly about to slice off their own heads or the heads of others, nor are schizophrenics about to spin their heads around and spit pea-soup out of their ears. It's merely 'the unknown' which is being used to scare the viewing public. The view of 'the insane' being anyone who has a mental instability is just as insufficiently specific as any other generalization. All homosexual males are not child abusers, all blacks are not lazy, all jews are not greedy, and all horror is not responsible for the deaths of young women in Yorkshire. All of those character traits exist in all peoples, no matter their cultural background, or artistic tendencies. It is possible for a schizophrenic to become a psychopath and go on a killing rampage, just the same as it's entirely possible for any male to go on a stress-induced killing rampage (with or without suddenly doing going off some sort of medication they're prescribed) but it hardly warrants rounding up all males and shooting them does it? ...although there are some people who might agree that most men are a dead loss to begin with, I'll grant you. So... erm... what was my point again...? BOOBIES! Sorry; that was for Zed. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.23.91.114 |
>>>"May be more likely" could be just an opinion but it's also the sort of language a good scientist would use in an executive summary to report a statistically significant positive result after performing, say, a t-test. Yes, a t-test with an alpha level of 0.05, claims that a hypothesis is supported, never proved. The mathematics involved suggest that if the same situation with the same variables occurred, then there is a 1 in 20 chance that the same result will happen. That is why all scientists must write "may", even when the results are pretty conclusive. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.23.91.114 |
I mean even in the following statement, you'd have to write "may": If set loose on the Internet, Weber may behave like a complete donkey. You catch my drift? You see how cautious we have to be? Even when the findings are pretty much obvious. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.251.147 |
Timely - the censors at work again, but this time at a film festival: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.db0e3a510e837b22648b1cac367c137d.1e1 &show_article=1 And let the jokes begin.... | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.133.97 |
People are taking issue with something I didn't say: I didn't suggest that seeing slasher movies 'makes' individuals attack the mentally ill, I only said that slasher movies contribute, systematically and culturally, to a climate of prejudice within which violence towards the mentally ill is considered what they deserve. Including violence by social workers and mental health nurses. Ramsey, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Joel I was a little distressed by your original post that derailed an otherwise jolly thread about some sub-par movies but I kept quiet. However, seeing as you’ve reiterated and clarified what you said I’m sure you’ll understand that the following diatribe is meant in the spirit of healthy debate and not as a personal attack or anything like that: I have only been attacked in hospital twice. The first time someone made a good attempt (although fortunately unsuccessful) at strangling me, the second someone smashed me in the face with a heavy glass ashtray and attempted to repeat the act (I still have a tiny scar on the bridge of my nose). The first instance was a schizophrenic woman, the second a depressed man in his early forties. Both attacked me as a consequence of the symptoms of the mental illness they were suffering at the time. I understood that it wasn’t anyone’s fault even when it was happening and I certainly don’t blame anyone for it. What those two episodes have done, though, is leave me with what I feel to be an entirely rational and reasonable fear that patients suffering from such conditions can be motivated to totally unpredictable acts of violence. In the same way, someone might be afraid walking through a housing estate at night despite the fact their chances of being attacked are low, and even though it is, there is still a very real chance and a fear of that could be considered by some to be justified too. Now, all people have fears. Some of those fears are rational, others are irrational, and you should know as well as anyone that one of the most difficult things in the world can be to cope with them and control them. For the majority the horror genre is a way many of us have of helping us to cope with the things we are afraid of. The kind of people who perpetrate violence against others don’t need movies to give them an excuse – they’ll find any reason, and to suggest the following “slasher movies contribute, systematically and culturally, to a climate of prejudice within which violence towards the mentally ill is considered what they deserve. Including violence by social workers and mental health nurses.” is pernicious nonsense, not least because it detracts from where the real problems lie. I’m not saying that slasher films per se help me to deal with any specific fears I might have regarding the mentally ill or anything else, but I don’t for one moment think they make any kind of social problem worse, and it actually makes me very annoyed when people suggest such a thing. However I am sure I will have calmed down by FantasyCon | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
On the subject of mental health treatment, when dangerously disturbed people are released into the community the reason is normally money. At the moment, Birmingham's mental health trusts are sending patients in need of institutional care as far afield as Manchester because there are no places available in this region. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
John, your comments are absolutely valid and I think this is the kind of discussion we should be having. However, if people feel this is spoiling the thread I'm happy to shut up. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Hi Joel I think this is the kind of discussion we should be having Absolutely and I think that's fine - in fact I feel better for posting what I wanted to say yesterday, and anything to do with how the horror genre may or may not interact with the 'real' world is I think tremendously worthy of discussion. I tend to come on RCMB as a bit of light relief from the real world but sometimes I think I should be cajoled (please appreciate how hard I had to resist the pun there) into more serious discussion! (Plus the essay I had written on the Friday the 13th films that was going to go here I'm now saving for my movie essays book ) | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.231.77 |
I sometimes think that the lack of realism adds to the 'bad influence' - if any - of these movies. I don't remember which one it was - possibly Scream 2, 3 or I Know What You Did Last Summer - where they all just keep stabbing each other without inflicting any damage to speak of. Youngsters might think that's all there is to it and that just one stab won't cause any harm. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
True... but it's a problem that goes back generations, to Westerns and the like. I think many people are shocked to discover that when you shoot someone in the arm or leg, they don't just keep going and fight back, they usually collapse and die of shock and blood loss. | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
It's one of the things that often annoys me in films. I want to immerse myself in the fantasy world of the film, but it does need to adhere as much as possible to the rules of so-called "reality" for me to buy into it. I hate when the hero (more so than the unstoppable killer) suffers serious injuries and keeps on without so much as a wince. I suppose I can only suspend my disbelief so far. On the other hand, I do love films that are wildly implausible and positively daft - but they're not the immersive experience "real" horror (for lack of a better term) is. I suppose it's a tricky balance to get right, since TOO much reality can spoil it for me. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
Um, honestly - when you guys get to Jason Goes to Hell will you let me know? (Sorry for the intense grouchiness...  ) | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.107.152 |
And looking back on my posts I sound nuts (sorry, mental illness fans ) | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Cheer up, Tony - I'll let you know! We have the box set with 1-8 but don't own Jason Goes to Hell, Jason X or Freddy vs. Jason. They're on the rental list, though, so one of these days LoveFilm will send them out! We rounded off the box set yesterday with another double bill of Part VII: The New Blood (probably the worst in the series) and VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan (more like Jason On A Boat). Nothing much to say about those beyond the obvious. Not that we expected anything good but hey, we had to finish what we'd started.  | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.75.238 |
I've only seen the ones with environments exotic enough to draw me in: Manhattan and er, space. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.75.238 |
We're all a bit prickly here. I took an unofficial survey a couple of years ago and the vast majority of people on the board had some sort of brush with mental illness. Horror fans are a bit odd. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.75.238 |
(Actually, strike the "vast", but it was a majority as I recall.) | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
I'm not mad but the old woman who lives in my left ear is... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
I'm clinically insane. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
The old woman in my ear is more mad than you are. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.75.238 |
If Albie were here, he'd chip in with an immaculate piece of word art. Then there'd be a big fight. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
That's the name of the woman in my left ear... How did you know? | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.236.188.73 |
The *real* reason Jason wears a mask in the early Friday the 13th movies is because he was being played by such actors as Laurence Olivier and Marlon Brando because they were out of work at the time and didn't want to anyone to know. It's also been rumored that Robert DeNiro played Jason as research for his role in "Cape Fear." The latest rumor is that Mel Gibson will be the next to don the Mask of Jason which is not surprising considering he will likely be needing the work. Call it typecasting. | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
In a departure for the series, there will be no actual murder in Mel Gibson's Passion of the Voorhees. Jason will, instead, just phone up the final girl, call her "vinegar tits" and then threaten to punch her in the face. The remaining 75 minutes of the movie will be a courtroom drama. | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.236.188.73 |
I'm soooo there! | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Mel Gibson will only do it if they change Jason's theme song from Alice Cooper's 'Man Behind the Mask' to 'Voorhees a Jolly Good Fellow' | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.61.177 |
D'oh! | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.236.188.73 |
. . .oh god, somebody shoot that man . . . . ;-) | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
JLP: the man who causes pain that no medical procedure can resolve... | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
I think Mel might be better at portraying Frank Booth. |