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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 12:00 pm:   

OK, Tony, you ready? Our Jason Goes to Hell DVD arrived today, so we'll be watching it later tonight if you want to join us!
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.143.178.131
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 01:38 pm:   

I prefer the prequel, Jason Goes to Hull
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.55
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 01:40 pm:   

Is that the one where he was strapped to the underside of a boat?
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 02:44 pm:   

No, that was the one set in Amsterdam - Jason Goes to Holl.
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 09:17 am:   

Tony, where were you? We watched it last night! But don't worry - we're going to watch it again today with the commentary. We heard a bit of it last night and were in tears.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.170.177.38
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 09:39 am:   

Hey! I was away all yesterday but got your invite. I watched it, but have to say it was pretty awful. The sad thing was that initially it sort of had a good look to it which made me expect more than arrived.
I have to say, that Manfredini guy's music is AWFUL and should on some insomniac tape - the movies have all, without fail, sent me nod-bound, every one. I do think my box set is Cex bound today (but I won't stop wearing my jason pin badge because, bad films aside, I like Jason).
I dunno... there were some atmospheric shots but they were purely second unit; they were framed and nicely lit, and I kept wishing the spirit and care of them could somehow have reached into the rest of the film. I mean, those coroners; why did one eat that heart for Christ's sake?
Still, the tent death was quite amazing, but really only shocking because it was quite technically proficient, but it's sad it should only shock me for that reason alone.
When I think about it I don't know how such a simple but potentially scary formula could go wrong. Even the recent reboot didn't work. Everythin about it is almost fail-safe, and yet it isn't, because hardly for one moment have any of them actually worked.
What a sh*t bunch of movies. :-(
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 09:52 am:   

Glad you saw it Tony!

We laughed and laughed at lines like:

"Eleven year old Jason was thought to have drowned in the lake. Sadly he didn't"

And scenes like Jason giving the policeman a shave after he's restrained him with leather straps. (?????)

But the shining jewel of this DVD has to be the commentary by two guys (the writer and the director) who sound as if 'Whatever Happened to Baby Jane' is probably one of their favourite movies.

On actors: "Oh we were SO in love with Erin Gray!"

On male nudity: "We were told we could show pickle, but we couldn't show angry pickle"

We only watched a bit last night so we're forging ahead with it today!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.170.177.38
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 09:58 am:   

Ha! And that big 'Yes!' on the news report. The news bit was probably the funniest bit in the whole thing. But yes, the shave - I could make no sense of that at all. And the close-up of the foot stepping on the condom.
I do wish someone would physically watch these films with me because that's the environment they're best suited to. I've only seen one with a few people and it was much more fun than it would have been on my own.
Jason X next, then Freddy Vs (I have to say all the Freddy's, even the worst one (yes, no. 2, appropriately), are like the work of Orson Welles compared with the Fridays... :-( )
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.170.177.38
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:03 am:   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkEwkaUAlBU
I have to say Mr Hodder seems like a sweet guy.
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:22 am:   

"And the close-up of the foot stepping on the condom."

We thought that was the film's message - they decided to have unsafe sex and they ended up having the least safe sex in the world!

We can't get hold of Jason X but Freddy vs Jason is on the way!
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:27 am:   

So is Jason X - I just bought it!
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:30 am:   

Yes, these films are terrible, awful, with nothing to recommend them. And yet... there's something so compelling about bad movies. Why do we keep watching them?

Have to say this one was still better than the last few F13s, which were actually BORING. And the cameo of Kane Hodder as the security guard in the morgue was a nice touch.
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:30 am:   

Good girl!
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:30 am:   

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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:31 am:   

Back to you!
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.253.10
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 04:22 pm:   

Someone cue Jason.
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 05:18 pm:   

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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 05:33 pm:   

We're not scared - we'll defeat Jason with the power of love!
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 05:34 pm:   

(And some power tools)
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.235.152
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 05:38 pm:   

Who's the third person there?

Three people, the "power of love"... sounds MUCH too decadent, for Jason to allow to exist... I'd start running right now....
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 05:45 pm:   

Tony will help us!
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Ian Alexander Martin (Iam)
Username: Iam

Registered: 10-2009
Posted From: 64.180.64.74
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 08:08 pm:   

Love cannot defeat Jason. The power tools are far more useful. "Think 'reciprocating saw'" is my advice.

As for "why do we watch them", it's John doing his research for some daft book that some daft publisher will daftly decide to publish so other daft people with part with daft amounts of money for some daft book full of daft words about daft films that anyone would be daft to spend daft amounts of time watching.

...hmm, maybe I've written the promotional text there...?

[copy + paste into new document] Done!
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 08:57 pm:   

BTW Tony, we've just started watching Hellraiser 1-3 if you want to see those this weekend too.
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Degsy (Degsy)
Username: Degsy

Registered: 08-2010
Posted From: 86.134.93.9
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:26 pm:   

>>Yes, these films are terrible, awful, with nothing to recommend them. And yet... there's something so compelling about bad movies. Why do we keep watching them?<<

"...real fans of the genre look back on a film like 'The Brain From Planet Arous' (It Came From Another World WITH AN INSATIABLE LUST FOR EARTH WOMEN!) with something like real love. It is the love one spares for an idiot child, true, but love is love, right? Right." Stephen King, 'Danse Macabre', pg 231.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.4.230.214
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   

Is there a chance Degsy's quoting himself? That would be so rad, if Mr. King were lurking here....
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Ian Alexander Martin (Iam)
Username: Iam

Registered: 10-2009
Posted From: 64.180.64.74
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 01:03 am:   

I think it's safe to say that Degsy is Degsy and spends a great deal of time watching The Brain From Planet Arous which may or may not be a good thing in and of itself, no matter what Mr. King might feel about it.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.221
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 09:43 am:   

Hey, Lord and Lady P's - I watched Hellraiser a little while ago and Hellbound last night - thanks for the invite (even if we watch them at the wrong time!).
Hellraiser had such a great story shape it felt like some classic Grimm, but Hellbound has started to feel like Derek Jarman directing a Carry On film, something like that. You could see what it wanted to be but I just kept finding myself cringing at the pompous pretentiousness (yes, pretensiousness fans, pretentiousness!) of it. The film quality has really deteriorated too and it all feels sort of 'stiff' (I'm reminded of Proto's 'The Crossroads of horror' line). The films feel clunky and mad instead of the old groundbreaking and strange - the madhouse in part two feels already like some crazy hell before we even get there, so the sense of hell bursting in on this world is somewhat depleted. We see such lovely flashes of what should have been (the dumb girl playing with the puzzle while Kirsty and that bloke talk about her) and the casting is terrific, and the music is almost - actually it IS - the best part, but we soon grow weary of creating this 'if only' film in our mind.
I dunno, my love for these films (and the Jasons) has been stretched this week. It used to be there when I was younger, but now, the time running out, I find myself resenting them a little more with each passing year for the hours lost spent hoping and willing them to accomplish whatever it was they were trying to do.
(Jason Goes to Hell went to Cex yesterday; traded him in for Unforgiven on blu ray. Hey ho... :-( )

BTW maybe Neil Jordan should have given the Barkers a stab? But what happened to Jordan, too? Have all the greats faded? :-(
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:16 am:   

"Hellbound has started to feel like Derek Jarman directing a Carry On film, something like that"

Tony that's lovely!

I've never really liked Hellbound - it always felt like a bad Italian rip off of the orginal rather than a proper sequel.

"BTW maybe Neil Jordan should have given the Barkers a stab? "

Oddly enough I've just been trashing Palace Pictures' Dream Demon elsewhere, and I also mentioned that 'Company of Wolves' has to be the most up-its-own-arse werewolf picture ever made. I don't think Jordan would have made a good Hellraiser - he'd have tried to be too cerebral about it.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.131.109.221
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:42 am:   

Yes, I see what you mean about Jordan. I've not seen Company of Wolves for years so have a somewhat fluffly memory of it.
But yes, there's a lightness of touch to even the worst of American film we just can't do. The Freddy's (even one or two of the Jason's) feel just so alive compared with these Hellraisers. They may not be clever or smart but they feel it because something about them just 'clicks'. As an aside I was thinking about this while watching the A Team yesterday; it's not a great film by any means but there's just something so warm and watchable about it, an unpretentiousness. I cannot think of a single brit film where it doesn't feel like there's a rod up it's back or that it's trying way too hard. Most brit films I can think of have that 'dancing dad' feel to them, like we're slightly embarrassed or trying way too hard. This is a rash, off the cuff judgement I know, but it does niggle with me, this difference between us and the yanks. See if you can recall a British Stand by Me or Zabriskie Point, find a british Altman. It just is too difficult.
But yes, the brain, it can get in the way of so many creative things, can't it?
(A Team is a poor film btw (it fusses over making the action scenes too interesting) but has such a sense of comradeship about it I really liked it. Mr T, or rather the actor playing him, was such a rounded character - the performance - from a boxer - quite affected me.).
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 05:57 pm:   

I also mentioned that 'Company of Wolves' has to be the most up-its-own-arse werewolf picture ever made.

It's one of my favourites. Guess I'll be watching that one by myself.

Tony, I hear what you're saying. I grew up with all the 80s American slasher films so there's a soft spot in my heart for them, no matter how bad they are. I had to freeze-frame a scene in Jason Takes Manhattan and run to get this smashed clock earring I used to wear in high school. It was one of my favourite accessories and I've kept it because I just couldn't say goodbye to it. And there it was in the film, worn as a brooch by the Oriental girl! And I've spotted similar things throughout all the silly crappy films from that period. They just bring back such a flood of memories it's hard for me to be too disappointed in them.

Also - my birthday falls on the 13th of its month and so it was always extra fun when it would be on a Friday. I'd have a slumber party and there would be loads of horror films on TV, which we'd stay up all night watching. My best memory of one such party was when we were watching some slasher film with all the lights out and we heard a weird scratching outside. Nervously, we crept to the window and opened the curtains and there was my dad, brandishing an ax at us! It's one of my fondest childhood memories.
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Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker)
Username: Stephen_theaker

Registered: 12-2009
Posted From: 62.30.117.235
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 07:23 pm:   

I think for me, apart from the obvious - they're completely undemanding viewing - a lot of the fun in watching these films, especially watching a few of them in a row, is in the continuity. Looking at how the monsters get resurrected, how characters are brought back from earlier films, how the rules change, how certain films get erased from continuity, that sort of stuff - the kind of stuff that wouldn't come into play in shorter series of films. I think that's part of the appeal of the Saw films, especially, where each film is carefully coiled around and through the ones that preceded it.

So in the Halloween films, you have the first two that are closely linked, but where Myers is human. Then a completely unrelated entry. Then in 4, 5 and 6 a supernatural element comes into it, before 7 ignores everything except 1 and 2! 8 creates a new origin, which may or may not be faked (I can't remember), before 9 and 10 reboot the whole thing and give him another origin, but still bring back an actress from 4 and 5...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.34.96
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 07:53 pm:   

I saw THE COMPANY OF WOLVES in the mid-80s, then once again a couple of years ago. I found it enchanting the second time. Its artificiality and theatricality makes it work on a deeper, symbolic plane of my mind.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.115.49
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 08:14 pm:   

Hellbound is exhausting to watch - all that running... The bit where the guy slashes himself up is quite gruesome, though, and I love the part where Julia is dressed in all the bandages but leaves a bloody mark on that white wall. And the fact that one of the Cenobites turns out to be a young boy.
Or did I dream all that?
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.158.238.131
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 08:28 pm:   

I didn't like Hellbound..it had it's moments but the jump from the UK setting of the first film to America was ludicrous and it was all a bit of a mess really.

I actually preferred Hellraiser 3...A much tighter film.

I'm amazed at the amount of straight-to-video Hellraiser films there are now...Haven't seen any of 'em!

gcw
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Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker)
Username: Stephen_theaker

Registered: 12-2009
Posted From: 62.30.117.235
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 08:33 pm:   

I didn't know till now that Hellraiser 7 and 8 were out here. They must have been on my Lovefilm coming soon list for about three years.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.115.49
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 08:42 pm:   

HELLRAISER seemed only nominally to be set in the UK - the 'phone had a US ring, and the removals men had American accents...
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 08:51 pm:   

Has anyone see Hellraisers 5-8? Are they worth watching?

What am I saying?
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.158.238.131
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 09:15 pm:   

No, and I doubt it very much!:-)

gcw
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.158.238.131
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 09:17 pm:   

Mick, I'm sure when I first saw Hellraiser it was definitely UK based, but (I may be wrong here) I think later versions were dubbed to tie it in with the second film...

gcw
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Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker)
Username: Stephen_theaker

Registered: 12-2009
Posted From: 62.30.117.235
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 10:14 pm:   

5 and 6 were okay as straight to video horror films go, but I seem to remember you could have extracted the Cenobites from them without too much trouble.

It was nice to see Pinhead himself at the BFS open afternoon the other day...
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 10:16 pm:   

"Mick, I'm sure when I first saw Hellraiser it was definitely UK based, but (I may be wrong here) I think later versions were dubbed to tie it in with the second film..."

Well we've just watched the first three again and I'm sure there were far more dubbed American accents in the first film than when I first saw it so you may be right!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.115.49
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 10:48 pm:   

gcw - I saw Hellraiser in't West End on the first night it opened, and recall the ringing being US, but then I am a telephone engineer, so I notice these things! One of the removals men used to drink at my local, and he was genuinely American, even if they have dubbed his voice...
I always presumed that these things were done to make it "mid-Atlantic" and therefore not scare off too much of the US audience.
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.158.238.131
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:09 pm:   

I saw Hellraiser at the flicks when it came out, and I distinctly remember it as being UK based, for instance the unfortunates that Julia sucked the life out of were British...

When I saw Hellraiser 2 (again at the flicks), I was amazed at the jump in location, in fact, the removals men in THAT film were the first ones that I remember having dubbed US accents....

gcw
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.115.49
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:19 pm:   

The first film was visually shot here, but the audio definitely had a twang at a couple of points! Thinking back, the guy I knew worked on the second film, not the first. Just having a quick look - Yep - there he is - a genwine American citizen:-

jg

...and he bought me a pint the night after this was shot!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.177.115.49
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 11:21 pm:   

Think his name was/is Ron, but not 100% on that.
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 213.122.209.76
Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 11:22 am:   

We've watched the first 3 Hellraisers (which are all we own) but I can't say I'm inspired to see any of the subsequent ones. This morning we watched our bonus disk, which had Clive Barker's short films on it. Some interesting experimental effects overall, but we did get bored watching Clive dance around naked with a stiffy for 10 minutes.

We're on to Freddy vs. Jason this afternoon, having absolutely loved the commentary track for Jason Goes to Hell. One of the best commentaries since Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? And I have to say I feel some real affection for Jason Goes to Hell after hearing the makers enthuse over how it was a film for fans, BY fans. Sure, it's a load of rubbish, but it's got a good heart. An oversized evil black one that compels you to eat it, thus ingesting Jason and allowing him to possess you, but still...
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 11:41 am:   

The confusion of accents was always present in Hellraiser - I saw the film before its original release, and it was already mid-Atlantic. We always found it disconcerting to see our old friend Pete Atkins dubbed in the third one - funny, though.
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.158.238.131
Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 12:12 pm:   

Ahh...I guess it was a long time ago, The ol'memory is a bit so-so these days...

gcw
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.155.48.70
Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 08:56 pm:   

I was driven nuts by the Hellraiser films and the mad accents. I thought the first film just had a lot of visiting yanks, but then the second had been invaded by them. It was like panning down from the Statue of liberty to reveal ... I dunno, something archetypally English.
I thought Freddy V Jason was good, but did lack what the producer said was 'a bit of walking around in the dark for a bit', a bit of build-up. (he didn't quite put it like that).
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.125.255
Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 09:44 pm:   

Near the start of Hellraiser 2, two US cops explore a house with very English looking windows.
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Ian Alexander Martin (Iam)
Username: Iam

Registered: 10-2009
Posted From: 64.180.64.74
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 01:03 am:   


quote:

It was like panning down from the Statue of liberty to reveal ... I dunno, something archetypally English.


Imagine it ending up showing that the Statue of Liberty was on the top of Nelson's Column, and the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square had the statue in the Lincoln Memorial on it. How's that?

quote:

Near the start of Hellraiser 2, two US cops explore a house with very English looking windows.


There's a shed load of houses like that on the east coast of the US, as well as in-land around Boston & Philadelphia. That part wouldn't be far-fetched. If, however, one of the guys with the American accent was wearing a London Bobby's helmet and carrying a truncheon and not a gun, then that would be entirely different.

I'm suddenly inspired to make a short horror film entirely filled with culturally-geographic wrongness... although it's probably been already done by the Hellraiser frainchise, by the sounds of things.

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