| Author | Message | ||
     Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Sorry to be completely off topic, but I thought some of you clever technically-minded people might be able to help me with this. I've recently bought one of those new-fangled things which transfers music from old vinyl to computer for copying onto CDs. I thought it was about time I dusted off my old albums and singles from the late 60s/early 70s and put them into a format where I can actually listen to them again. Now, the instruction manual tells me that I can "export my music files" as .WAV or .Mp3 and I'm confused  I don't have an Mp3 player - wouldn't know what one looked like if it jumped up and bit me on the nose. All I want to do is save the files to my computer and then copy them onto ordinary CDs to play in a normal CD player. So, can anyone tell me what format I should save them in? I think I've heard somewhere that you can't play MP3 thingies on an ordinary CD, so I guess it's the .WAV file? That's one of the problems of never having had children of my own - I've no youngsters to show me how to do these technical things.  | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
You likely have a MP3 player built in on your computer in Windows Media Player or RealPlayer (unless you're on a Mac, in which case my Geek Girl superpowers will fail). And most CD players nowadays will play MP3s burned onto CDs. I think .wavs are fairly obsolete. But I could be wrong. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.183.203.223 |
.WAVs are uncompressed, MP3s use lossy compression so are a lot smaller. Personally, being a nerd, I'd extract as .WAVs to keep as much of the original quality as possible, as highly compressed .MP3s can sound less good. It will mean, though, that you can fit less on a CD; f'rinstance, using .WAVs, you could fit, say, 75 minutes worth of music on a single CD - using MP3, you could fit ten times that. It depends on whether or not your CD player can play MP3 CDs. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
I'd just stick with the vinyls, largely because whenever I try to do anything like this on a computer, I end up in a Banner-like rage, turning green, looking for enemies, spitting sweat and developing red eye. Not a nice sight, nor much to listen to. If you recorded it on MP3, it'd probably bust your system. Hope that helps, Caroline. Any time at all. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
I don't think it matters which format you choose (except in so far as wavs will take up more room on your PC) - the question is whether your CD burner and software will let you burn the data as an audio CD. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
Lifehacker's often a good place to look for help on this kind of stuff. There are a few articles here if you get stuck for cd burning software: http://lifehacker.com/search/Burning%20audio%20cds/ | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Thanks, folks - you're geniuses, all of you!  OK, it sounds to me like I might be better with .WAV files. Both my computer and my telly (through which I play my CDs) are a few years old, so my guess is they don't play Mp3 thingies. I'm not worried about fitting loads onto one CD - I'm more interested in how it sounds. So, I'll give it a go. But I'll probably end up as Gary describes ... "in a Banner-like rage, turning green, looking for enemies, spitting sweat and developing red eye."  | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
BTW a funny story about when I bought this thing .. I got it in ASDA for £27 - good price, I thought. Anyway, I'm at the checkout waiting to pay when the elderly guy who keeps trolleys and things sorted comes along to collect the empty baskets. "That'll be good. You can play all your old Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin", he says to me. I mean, do I look like I'm into Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin? Well, yes, I suppose I do really. I didn't have the heart to tell him it was my early 70s prog rock I was most looking forward to hearing! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.245.229 |
Do you have iTunes? If so, then it's simple.... - Copy albums into mp3s - Move mp3s into iTunes - Create a playlist, and then put all the new mp3s in that playlist - press "Burn CD" at the bottom Voila! You have music CDs! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Er, Craig, I've heard the term iTunes, but I've no idea what it is! Sorry, I really am a technical dunce. I've wondered if it is something I ought to get. Is that what you play on iPods? | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
And if you think I'm just joking, I assure you I'm not. I really have no idea whatsoever about these things. I mean, are Mp3 players the same as iPods? Haven't a clue. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.245.229 |
Do you know if you have a Mac or not a Mac? If you have a Mac, you have iTunes. If you have not a Mac, you still might have iTunes. Search your computer for "iTunes." Start there. DIscovering that in general will help you immensely. When you search your computer, be sure to look in the back, behind the monitor, in those little crevices. It often likes to hide there. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Oh no, it's definitely not a Mac. It's a plain and simple PC. Well, it isn't even a PC - it's a laptop. But I use it like a PC on my desk as it takes up less space there than a PC. And I'm not daft enough to fall for this: "When you search your computer, be sure to look in the back, behind the monitor, in those little crevices. It often likes to hide there." You swine, Craig! You did make me chuckle though.  | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.121.214.11 |
If your monitor is getting a bit old, you might need to pop down to PC World and buy some new pixels for the screen, just in case. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.245.229 |
Even if you don't have iTunes right now, you can download it for, I believe, free... yes, surely, it must be. Do that, Caroline. It is a fairly up-to-date laptop, right? It's not from the 90's or nothing? Get iTunes, it will solve most all of your problems. Well, when it comes to importing music... they've not invented yet a computer program that REALLY solves all one's problems.... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
I don't know whether to take you guys seriously! Well, I'm definitely not taking Weber seriously (who would?), but I might google "iTunes free" and see if it does turn up anything. Can you really get iTunes free and what would I do with it if I could? | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
You can update it every couple of weeks - it's great fun! But seriously, Craig's idea sounds good. I didn't know iTunes could burn CDs. I like iTunes, but unfortunately my PC struggles to run it - it takes forever to get anything onto my iPad that way. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.183.203.223 |
...he said, casually dropping in the phrase "my iPad"! | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
Oh, it's lovely. Not really more useful than a laptop or a netbook, but it's a bit more portable, and my laptop broke down a while ago. The poor thing needs a wipedown at the moment - the children have been playing the finger painting games on it. | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
Right... I try not to reveal my ability to hand-build a computer from scratch using only separate components and a small coin to replace an actual screwdriver, but here goes the illusion that I'm an average feller when it comes to technology. Caroline: your thing what you bought came with software you installed in your laptop (P.C., by the way, stands for Personal Computer, and both laptops and desktops are both therefore P.C.s; then so is a Mac theoretically, but the Apple adverts don't want to use the word "Windows" too often...). Where was I...? Ah yes: in the software for your conversion thing, you're asked if you want MP3 or WAV files to be created. You want WAV (pronounced "wave") as Mick's spot on: this will retain all of the sound you have on the vinyl. When they're being converted, have the programme save them to some folder where you can locate them at the end of this process. The thing you do next, after you've "converted" the Genesis live double-album, is you get the programme to "burn" a CD from these WAV files. Chances are it will have that as part of the programme's options, but if it doesn't then you ought to easily be able to use Windows Media Player to do that (create a playlist listing those tracks you just converted from vinyl, burn the playlist to audio disc). The key here is to burn an AUDIO DISC, and not a DATA DISC. A Data Disc will consist of a duplication of the files on your hard-drive, which it sounds like your hi-fi won't play. An Audio Disc is the same as the ones you currently play on your gramophone, and that's the sort of CD you'll actually be able to listen to. Each Audio Disc (presuming you bought some blank ones) will probably have a maximum of 80 minutes available on it. This is more than enough space for any LP, and in many cases you can get all four sides of a double LP on a single CD. For example, The Beatles (the white one) will not, however, nor will The Wall, but Tommy and Quadrophenia both will. Now, and here's the only thing that gets tricky, if you're "burning" a live album (or any album where the tracks flow from one to another as many Prog-Rock albums do), you want to ensure that the option "gapless" or "no pause between tracks" or "continuous music" or something (they're all the same thing,m just different terms for it) is selected so that there isn't a two-second pause stuffed in between the songs, making the crowd-noise cut out for a couple of seconds and sounding odd. Interrupting the flow of sound during Tommy is also annoying. Now, the disc burned, wander over to your Victrola, pop in the CD and ensure it plays to your satisfaction (are there gaps and you don't want them? re-burn with the selection correctly indicated -- all good and you're happy? move on to the next step then). Return to the laptop and locate the WAV files you created from the LP. Delete them, as you now have a CD to play from. ...and you're done. Hope that helps. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Ian, I think I love you! Will you marry me? Oh, sorry, wait ... my husband wouldn't like that very much (and neither would the Authorities as bigamy is illegal here). But I am extremely grateful to you for putting it all into words that even a technophobe can understand. Now, Stephen, just out of curiosity, what does an iPad do? | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
Caroline; my wife might also be a teensy bit upset were I to re-marry without first getting a divorce. Bit tricky that one. Meanwhile: an iPad is like a touch screen computer; no keyboard, just a big flat glass plate which you poke pictures of things to make things happen. Much like men, really... | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
Yes, basically a computer that's really easy to use. Even my two year old can switch from one program to another. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Even my two year old can switch from one program to another.<< I bet I couldn't though. Well, you've seen what I'm like regarding technical things now, haven't you? Ian - I can see the solution to our marital problem. How about I get my husband to team up with your wife? Then, you and I are free to marry. Hmmm, maybe that's a bit too drastic a way of finding myself instant technical support though. No, I think we'll just stay as we are, shall we?  | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
.. that is, unless you're a superb cook, and can vacuum the house with one hand whilst simultaneously cutting the lawn, pruning the bushes, and plying me with chocolates. Blimey, I think I need to marry an octopus! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
OK, one more daft question from me. One of those questions which I've never had the courage to ask anyone before for fear of looking silly - but now you all know I'm silly, I've nothing to lose ... When I'm buying CDs to transfer my music collection onto, there are two types - CD-R and CD-RW. I assume that RW stands for "re-write", so these are the type you use if you want to record over and over again. Now I don't want to record over and over again in this case - once they're recorded, I'll be keeping them as they are. So, does that mean I'm better off buying CD-R type CDs? Sorry to be so dim ... | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
If you only want to burn a copy one time, then yes. CD-R is what you want. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Great, thanks Kate. I assumed that might be the case, but thought I'd better check before buying them and ending up with the wrong ones. Now all I've got to do is find time to go through my old record collection and do all this copying/burning stuff ... | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Don't envy you that!  | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
Typically, home graphanola musical players are less pleased with CD-RW discs... something about their bottom physical surface isn't the same as the actual Audio-CDs, as well as CD-RWs are not "finalized" in a way that precludes further alteration of the disc; re-writing, say. Here's an important tip: buy a very small package of CD-Rs, burn those three (or five), then try them in your musical hi-fi home entertainment centre device. Sometimes the CD-player will like a particular brand and sometimes not. Oddly, the least expensive discs are the most reliable in this instance. Hi thee to Tesco's! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Ian, I think I still want to marry you - you're brilliant.  * Ian rolls his eyes skywards and thinks "Thank goodness there's a huge patch of water between us or the silly old fool would be stalking me by now" *  | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
Erm... glad I could help... [Ian now looks out window onto back garden to ensure Caroline hasn't taken-up residence in garage...] | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.158.238.131 |
Caroline, you do realise Mick Curtis is dying to say ..."but you should be listening to the vinyl!!! gcw... | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 95.131.110.102 |
Consider it said! | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
While at risk of terrifying Caroline with the next development in this discussion, I've got to say that I cannot detect the difference between a lossless encoded audio file and the same recording on vinyl, with the exception of a complete absence of hisssssss pop! click crackle.... hissssss Note that I'm saying a lossless codec is used for that audio file, because -- oh yes! -- I can certainly hear the difference between that and the compressed range of tone and musical clarity of the MP3, especially below 320Kbps (Caroline's head is about to explode at this point, probably). Add to that any setting on a WMA or AAC file, and basically I can't abide anything other than FLAC or WAV (although WAV is a massive pig for file size, so why use it except for encoding to an Audio-CD?). Now when comparing FLAC to the original CD, I hear zero difference. Vinyl to the CD (other than the aforementioned surface noise), I also hear no difference. Am I badly in need of a new ear drum, or simply an average listener? Over to you, Mick.... or GCW... or someone... anyone? | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.183.203.223 |
I play CDs via a streamer, so all my CDs are ripped to FLAC on a NAS drive. I hear no difference between CD and FLAC, but then as it's lossless I shouldn't. There's just summat about vinyl though! | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 64.180.64.74 |
Yeah, that's the point at which people say things about the warmth of the tone, and so on. Other than the surface noise which is actually neat to hear in a way (makes the low tone more apparent in the contrast of the hiss?), is it more psychosomatic than anything? Once you're done the adjustment of "ReplayGain" to compensate for the over-amplification of the CD signal, isn't everything the same between vinyl and CD now? Perhaps the very first generation of CDs were sub-par for signal, but now? | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.183.203.223 |
A lot of modern CDs suffer from over-compression to make them appear louder on't radio:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ ..as for vinyl noise, it's not too apparent to me if the disc isn't actually damaged, although I don't tend to listen to records on headphones as vinyl 'roar' can become more noticeable. A lot of people claim the appeal of vinyl is in the 'crackle' - not me, I like a quiet background, but there often seems to be a life in music on vinyl that's not there so much on CD, but that's only my opinion; as the saying goes, your mileage may vary. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
OK, you guys, what language are you talking now? I can't understand a word of it. In fact, I think I'd prefer vinyl too - but the problem is I can't find the right stylus for my ancient record player. I don't want to damage my records further, so I've been forced to try to bring myself into the 21st century. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.78.35.185 |
The problem with wav is that it takes more space, so if you have many lps and if you want to keep the wavs on your laptop, then the hard disk can get full. Honestly, if you are not really into hi-fi (I know Mick is, and actually I am a bit as well), then a decent mp3 (setting 320kbps) is almost as good, you'll barely hear the difference if at all, and they occupy far less hard disk space. Coming back to itunes which was mentioned. You can download it for free from www.apple.com/itunes It can keep all your mp3s (or wavs) and you can burn classic audio cds with it. Eventually you might eventually want to buy an ipod (an mp3 player that won't bite you on the nose) on which you could then transfer all your music from itunes and then you can listen to it anywhere... | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 213.122.209.76 |
Be careful installing Mac software on a PC, though! I bought an iPod years ago and installed the software for it on my Windows PC and it crashed irretrievably. TWICE. Since then I've been extremely paranoid about Mac software/iPods/iTunes/etc. I have a boring old Tesco MP3 player I use at the gym. Good point re: not being that fussed about the quality of MP3 vs. wav. I don't notice the difference myself and I'll definitely choose the unnoticeably (for me) lesser quality of MP3s for the option of having more of those than uber-high quality wavs. I have *hundreds* of MP3s on my hard drive where once I had a handful and thought "Aw, I'll never need more than that". LOL | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.183.203.223 |
Hundreds? Just a little over 10,000 on my iPod and more than 34,000 on my home streamer, although with that many I do get caught out often when on shuffle, wondering what the track is (I only recognise The Beatles and Miles Davis). | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Don't worry, folks! I wouldn't be keeping them on my hard drive anyway - just copying them to disc and then deleting them. I just want the ordinary CDs. I don't think I'm ever likely to want to listen to them on my computer (in fact, my computer's just about ready for the knacker's yard anyway) and I doubt if I'll ever own an iPod. I've no interest in listening to music "on the move" - except in my car where I have an old cassette player at the moment but am likely to be having a CD player soon. So I'm happy with all the info you've given me now - I know what I'm doing, I think! Many thanks. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 94.227.156.153 |
> except in my car where I have an old cassette player at the moment but am likely to be having a CD player soon. yes but even so, many car stereos now have an input for ipods and the like, so you can have all your music when driving. And also interesting, an mp3 player gives access to the wonderful world of podcasts: freely downloadable radio-like emission "magazines" on various topics, for example Starship Sofa, Escape Pod, PodCastle, and Pseudopod which offer weekly SF, Fantasy and Horror stories to listen to. Great for your commute ! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
I know, Tom. You're trying to bring me up to date. Thanks! But I can't run before I can walk, so to speak. I don't honestly think I'll ever get around to mastering an iPod or any more of those new-fangled things. You can listen to podcasts on a computer too, can't you? | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.78.35.185 |
> You can listen to podcasts on a computer too, can't you? Yes, again itunes is easy. when you go to the itunes store you can browse and search for podcasts, for example the ones I quoted. And again, when you have itunes then you could just as well keep all your music in mp3 format in there (and burn audio cds, even your own compilation cds if you like). If you have one day an mp3 player you can just transfer it, instead of retransferring from all the cds you'll have created. Also, if there is a new song or two you like then instead of buying the full cd you can cheaply buy most separate songs on the itunes store. For me, physical audio is soooo 20th century... | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>physical audio is soooo 20th century...<< Yes, but then so am I, Tom! | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
I spent hundreds of hours copying all my vinyl and CDs onto the computer, fixing the metadata, then trying various devices to play them on around the house (stuff like XBMC or the Roku Soundbridge), without ever being totally satisfied. I use Spotify most of the time now, and I'm very pleased with it - pleased enough to pay for the premium version. I've got an 780-track playlist of sf soundtracks set up to play while I'm working... | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 84.197.160.122 |
Stephen, Check : http://www.sonos.com/experience/multiroom/Default.aspx?rdr=true&LangType=1033 This is said to be a rather clever multiroom system. |