| Author | Message | ||
     Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
I read this 800-page uber horror novel on holiday, and have to say that I'm suprised nobody else is raving about the book. It's a mix of I am Legend, The Road and the Mad Max trilogy, as if written by Stephen King at the top of his game. In other words: Fucking. Brilliant | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.31.8.83 |
Sounds rubbish. Anything recommended by you needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. You know nothing. You're a div. Oh, and welcome back, mate!  | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.208.112.233 |
Gary, I read the ARC at Christmas. I loved it too. Sags a bit in the middle, but the front and the back are superb, aren't they? Hope you had a good holiday, btw. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
Eyup, mate. Welcome back to Blighty. This sounds like a good 'un, I'll check it out. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Steve - the middle does sag a little, but it's still fascinating, and the whole adds up to much more than the sum of its parts. The last line fucking floored me. If the author had been in the room, I would have punched him in the face for causing me that kind of distress. Fry - anyone who doesn't like this books clearly stinks of wee. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 94.227.156.153 |
Well, I did browse it and read the first few pages in a local shop and I must say that I thought that the prose was singularly simple and not involving. It did seem to me the output of Stephen King's retarded brother. But, I am happy to hear that the total experience is quite a bit better than that ! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Horses for courses, but I loved this. Not many novels are able to hold my attention these days, but this one held me for 800 pages and I still wanted more. The prose struck me as King in a literary mood. And what's wrong with simple prose, btw? | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.208.112.233 |
The FBI agent section is almost like a novel in itself. Then the huge leap forward. Almost as if the word 'epic' was created just for it. I love the fact that the virals are almost feral; you can stick that up your arse, Ms Meyer. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Indeed. I also thought the first chapter - sort of a prologue was exceptional. The book has a beating heart, and the relationship between the FBI man - Wolgast - and the little girl Amy is at the centre of that. Parts of the book left me feeling genuinely moved. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.78.35.185 |
> And what's wrong with simple prose, btw? I expressed it wrong, I rather meant generic prose. Anyway, your and Steve's ravings make me think that I should perhaps eventually try it more than the bit of browsing I did. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Ah, generic. Well, the prose suits the target audience and the story being told. Bold, simple, uncluttered, but occasionally poetic. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.78.35.185 |
It's just that - and I hope that I don't come over as pretentious - I'm a bit tired of workman-like prose. I'm now reading the new Haruki Murakami 1Q84 (in Dutch, English edition is a year away), and that's really on another level - yet still eminently readable. | ||
| Rosswarren (Rosswarren) Username: Rosswarren Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 86.160.215.39 |
I was reading it on my i-phone kindle app but found it a bit tricky so I bought a hb copy. Up to chapter 13 and enjoying it a lot. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
I'd rate the prose in The Passage much higher than workmanlike, but then again I don't have a problem with workmanlike prose - noir, for instance, is full of it. I like the prose to suit the story. I'm much more inclined to detest overly ornate prose when it's used, for example, to write a book about working class northern hitmen. Horses for courses; bikes for dikes.  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Haruki Murakami...is that the guy who wrote the Wind-up Bird Chronicles? I tried that after seeing several people who's opinion I respect raving about it, and put it down, bored, after about 5 or 6 chapters (three of which seemed to be about the uninteresting protagonist stalking a cat through his neighbour's garden). | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
I read Kafka on the Shore by Murakami (who is indeed he of the wind up bird chronicles fame). I can't say that I loathed it. It was readable. But i didn't think it was anything more than that and it certainly hasn't encouraged me to pick up anything else of his. Other people I know (landlord here included) love his work and will lap up evrything he writes. he's a writer I thought I was going to like, but His writing just seems strangely flat and a bit uninteresting to me. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Sounds like the ideal holiday formula might to put The Stand and The Passage together. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 78.144.129.82 |
Me, I am open to all kinds of prose, whatever the genre. But genric prose is something which makes me put the book down almost immediately. It's not that I don't think the person can't write, just that it's lazy, and tiring. Simple beautiful elegant prose, heavily descriptive prose, experimental prose...I'm game for reading any of those, as long as it works. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Define generic prose. Not arguing, btw, just after some clarity so I can understand what it is you're objecting to. Many people call King's prose generic, but I don't - he's often a very literary writer, but subtly so to ensure that he doesn't exclude his core audience. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.78.35.185 |
While I am a fan I do think that The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is a bit overlong. I prefer the short story that was actually at the basis of the start of the novel; indeed about a guy cooking pasta al dente when the woman calls. BTW his protagonists tend to be passive, things just happen to them. If you still have it around, you may want to check out that it has one of the most horrific scenes I ever read, somewhere in the middle of the book, a scene that takes place in the russian steppes. I did like Kafka on the shore quite a bit, but I prefer his earlier work "A Wild Sheep Chase" and "The Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the end of the world". These early stories were translated by Alfred Birnbaum who to my taste is better than the subsequent translators (not that I can read the original Japanese, but the English just flows better). His new one 1Q84 - first two volumes (around the size of The Passage) is so far his best one in my view. Very readable yet special enough with a certain perception of shifting reality. The 3rd volume comes out in dutch in april. Volumes 1 & 2 will be available in English in september 2011 if I am not mistaken. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.78.35.185 |
> Define generic prose. In my opinion, many American genre books feel as if they're written by the same person. Or at least people who all followed a certain method of writing. Now I don't think that this was what bothered me when browsing The Passage. Definitely at first sight it didn't inspire me. I can understand that Murakami may not be to your liking, so let's take Paul Auster as another example of a writer with clear, readable prose that still enchants more and evokes more mystery than what I see in so many genre books... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Interesting... I'm very picky regarding what modern horror genre books I read (I tend to read a lot of short horror fiction but with novels I spread my net wider and enjoy more contemporary mainstream fiction). This means that I haven't encountered the problem you describe. I do see a lot of horror writers trying to adopt the voice of other, succesful writers - mainly Bradbury and King - and if that's what you mean, I dislike that too. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
And, yes, Paul Auster is great. I recently read his New York Trilogy and thought it was amazing. Actually, it's a fine example of the prose suiting the work - strong, simple, yet elegant. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
I just finished Oracle Night by Auster recently and, while I certainly didn't dislike the book, I have to say it's the least satisfied I've been with anything Auster's written. I think the main bugbear is his use of footnotes that take up 4 or 5 pages each - a practice I hate regardless of the writer. On a brighter note, I did pick up a copy of Invisible on Wednesday. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.78.35.185 |
Yes, it's what I meant. So many books have prose that superficially resembles King. Actually I barely read King the last 15 years; but a year ago I read his recent novella N. and that one shows he is still at the top of the field in the genre. Many thick genre novels suffer from this generic commercial writing style, and it's never as well done as King when he's in form. I browsed The Passage at the end of June, I think, and I am not sure anymore if that was what put me off; I will check next time I'm in that shop; and who knows, perhaps your recommendation might sway me to try it... Regarding Auster, he has many good ones. I'm sure you'd like Moon Palace, The Music of Chance and The Book of Illusions. A good example of readable prose that pulls you in. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 78.144.129.82 |
Zed - I don't like writers who 'churn' out well-worn cliches, cliches within the writing of prose itself in order to construct a story. It's like leap-frogging certain areas of the process. I'm amazed how often I pick up a book which has sold thousands of copies and to my utter dismay find the writer has used a line so old in its descriptive power that nobody else seems to mind. Does that make any sense? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Name names, man. Go on; I dare you.  | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 78.144.129.82 |
Zed - well any number of recent authors...Dan Brown and his ilk, some crime writers like Val MacDermid, Henning Mankell (the latter may be due to translation). | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 78.144.129.82 |
Also it's the way in which some writers express the 'thoughts' of their characters, such hackneyed fare as: 'The thought scared me stiff'...that taken at random from one of the writers I've mentioned. I know that people do express themselves this away, and that it's not a literary enterprise in which the real world works, but to express something vocally is different to trying to capture the 'inner monologue' (for want of a better phrase). Shouldn't there be something more emotionally descriptive used? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
You must read some tosh, mate. Seriously, though, I tend to read well-written stuff (like I said, I'm picky. I don't have enough time to be anything less) these days, so I never encounter such hackneyed prose. As well as The Passage, I've just read Adam Nevill's Apartment 16, and that's seriously good too. Not a cliched phrase in sight. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.31.8.83 |
Yeah, Frank, stock phrases are naff. Root em out! | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 78.144.129.82 |
Zed - I have read some tosh, mate. I like to give everybody a go, but sometimes I feel like pulling my hair out. I read one book by one writer, a writer who has sold thousands and thousands of copies, and then I read a book by another writer who has sold barely a fraction of the other (I'm speaking generally), and yet the latter of the two, whether eloquent in their simplicity, or daring and thought provoking in the sheer audacity of their style (again I'm speaking generally), and I marvel at their brilliance, at their commitment to the act of writing,which is followed by bewilderment and disappointment that barely anybody has heard of them. Yes, I know that's the way of the publishing world, but it stinks. BTW: I would never include Stephen King on that list if that's what it might have seemed like before. BUT, that's what a lot of critics who've never even read him accuse him of being. I once was reading a beautifully written biography on Alexandra Solzhenitsyn, but then on the last page the writer bemoans the westernization of Russian literature, and how the shops were full of such rubbish as Virgina Andrews and Stephen King. It almost spoiled my admiration of the book I'd just read. I don't think I'll ever get over the inherent snobbery of the world of literature. Gary - sometimes I spend all day rooting out MY very own stock phrases. (: | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 78.144.129.82 |
Oh, that the writer put Andrews alongside King made me realise he couldn't have ever read either of them to make such a ridiculous comparison to raise his point. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 94.227.157.12 |
Or, perhaps he had only read The Tommyknockers... | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.208.112.233 |
I think Cronin's prose suits the story. And I also thought there were sections that were more literary than others, when the story required it. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.131.108.128 |
I got a signed one of these last week. Have to say, dipping in it didn't leap out at me... | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.236.178.158 |
I consider myself something of a cultural anarchist concerning style issues; so whatever works for what you're trying to do; whether you're Hammett or Nabokov, if you're book is good, well then . . . . That said, story of "The Passage" doesn't sound that intriguing to me. I'm not much for the Army of Vampires/Zombies stories. It's the singularity of a monster that draws me. One vampire is scary. A million of them wear out their welcome with me. (See my rant on "True Blood" at my Red Room page, if you haven't: http://www.redroom.com/articlestory/drive-a-stake-through-it-taking-down-true-bl ood ) | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Thomas, the novel isn't an "Army of Vampire story" at all. I don't know how it's being marketed, but it's very human and at times incredibly moving. It's about humanity - what it is to be human. I thought the first chapter was a small-scale masterpiece. If that part doesn't jump out at you, then you're probably not going to like the book at all. | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.236.169.250 |
Zed: that's how it's being pushed over here. Going back to the debate about style, though, I'm surprised we haven't brought up Our Landlord who, IMO, is a supremely poetic, intense and audacious stylist. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.158.238.131 |
Interesting, I had a conundrum over lyrics to some of my new songs..I was looking to simplify, rather than try to be clever, problem is, if you write a love song & the words 'Love hurts' tell the story truthfully, then why use 'love twist deep inside me like a cold blade' or some such (hopefully better than that... ). Take the line 'The Power Of The Heart'. sounds naff doesn't it? but it's actually the title of an incredibly moving song by Lou Reed, recently covered very effectively by Peter Gabriel. It's a feat, but I am trying to reclaim simple phrases back from the 80's power ballads... gcw | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
Well, I finished 'The Passage' last night and I'm with Zed on this. It's an absolute belter. I wasn't reminded of King, actually; at times I actually thought of Cormac McCarthy. I'd agree it does sag somewhat in the middle, but once you get past those longeurs it's very fine. It has real emotional depth. MINOR SPOILER Although I really would like to read a US horror novel that doesn't bring God into it. Just a personal thing. If I have to listen to another load of bollocks about the wonders of faith... and quite frankly, it pissed me off when a character compared the situation to Noah and the flood- the implication being that the billions of innocent people killed horribly by the virals in some way 'deserved' it or that it's OK because it's all part of God's plan. Anyone who'd worship a sadistic, psychopathic deity like that needs locking up. Of course I could be making the mistake of confusing a character's POV with the author's, but it didn't feel that way. As I say, that's just a personal gripe; didn't spoil the novel for me. I've been suffering from 'Pope rage' all week. SPOILER ENDS As for Marukami- yeah, I've read, or rather tried to read, 'The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle' and just could not get into it at all. And I did try. Maybe I will again one day. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Mate, the US is full of religious zealots, so every US horror novel is bound to feature at least one religous character. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.73 |
Amen. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.73 |
I've been avoiding The Passage for some reason. (Probably the 800 pages.) But I've wound up buying a signed copy - possibly from the same store Tony got his! - with a view to flogging on E-Bay if it turns out to be a load of crap. (Back to Murakami. I read Murakami and like his imagination while getting irritated by his flat prose. While I enjoyed Sputnik Sweetheart and his earthquake stories, when he gets lengthy the prose irritates, especially those stock phrases and cliches.) |