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Stu (Stu)
Username: Stu

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 86.29.72.12
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:02 am:   

This has probably already been discussed but I'll mention it anyway.

"A spine-chilling new single drama has also been commissioned for Christmas on BBC Two, Janice Hadlow revealed.

"Whistle And I'll Come To You, written by Neil Cross, is the thoroughly modern re-working of the evocative Edwardian ghost story "Oh, Whistle and I'll come to You, My Lad" by M.R. James made by BBC Drama Production.

"After the first series of his "gritty-gothic" police thriller Luther, Cross's adaptation delves into themes of ageing, hubris and the supernatural, adding a terrifying psychological twist in the tale to this family hearthside favourite."
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 220.138.164.244
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:25 am:   

Why don't they adapt one that hasn't been done before, for heaven's sake? I want to see Count Magnus!
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Steveduffy (Steveduffy)
Username: Steveduffy

Registered: 05-2009
Posted From: 86.171.100.126
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:35 am:   

You and me both, Huw. And Ms Pardoe also, come to that.
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Skunsworth (Skunsworth)
Username: Skunsworth

Registered: 05-2009
Posted From: 78.149.223.216
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:38 am:   

Oh, yes, because James' stuff really needs a psychological twist adding, because it wasn't nearly good enough the way it was written.

Muppet.

S
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:47 am:   

the thoroughly modern re-working of the evocative Edwardian ghost story "Oh, Whistle and I'll come to You, My Lad"

No! No! No!
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 220.138.164.244
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 10:53 am:   

Oh Whistle and I'll Come 2 U?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.23.61.249
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 11:13 am:   

This attitude to classic fiction is based on the fundamentally wrong-headed assumption that "they wrote a good tale back then, didn't they . . . for the time."

As Ramsey also points out, there seems to be a loathsome need to bring the classics to an audience instead of expecting an audience to go to the classics.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.23.61.249
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 11:16 am:   

Mind you, let's give this latest example a go. No need to be purist about it in a way which dismisses it before viewing. After all, I think Jonathan Miller went beyond James's brief in his adaptation.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.23.61.249
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 11:18 am:   

"adding a terrifying psychological twist"

It's just this bit which makes me shake my head at their obvious arrogance.
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Degsy (Degsy)
Username: Degsy

Registered: 08-2010
Posted From: 86.134.41.150
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 11:35 am:   

As long as they don't do a 'Sherlock' on it I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I imagine the 'haunted sheet' payoff in 'Oh Whistle' might get the chop - scary as hell on the page (due to the classic Jamesian understatement) but which seemed a bit ridiculous when actually realised in the Miller TV version and also in the original illustrations for the book.

(Though there was an ad for washing powder on the telly recently where someone finds that their duvet cover is a gateway into Narnia.)
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.23.61.249
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 12:17 pm:   

Eh? The sheeted figure was marvellously handled by Miller.
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Degsy (Degsy)
Username: Degsy

Registered: 08-2010
Posted From: 86.134.41.150
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 12:43 pm:   

I still think the Miller version is fantastic and will probably remain the definitive screen version, but the sheeted figure just didn't do it for me. I got the impression that someone was waggling it around on the end of piece of fishing line with a bit of primitive slo-mo for added effect. Maybe I just imagined it as being something different to what JM realised.

What worries me about the BBC version is the prospect of a bargain-basement CGI sheet monster!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.23.61.249
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 01:04 pm:   

Like the chase at the end of a Scooby Doo episode!
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Skunsworth (Skunsworth)
Username: Skunsworth

Registered: 05-2009
Posted From: 78.149.223.216
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 01:30 pm:   

I have no real problem with changing things to make them 'visual', or even updating things (although that's not always successful) - with this, I think Gary said it best: it's the arrogance of assuming that it needs new material, and also the person they've got to adapt it. After all, Luther was quality, original TV wasn't it? Oh, no, wait...

S
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Barbara Roden (Nebuly)
Username: Nebuly

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 216.232.180.153
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 06:02 pm:   

Degsy said 'As long as they don't do a 'Sherlock' on it I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.'

As a long-time Sherlockian who's seen (several times now) the recent updating of the Holmes stories, all I can say is that if this updated version of MRJ is anywhere near as good as SHERLOCK it'll be excellent. However, I realise that that's a mighty big 'if'.

As for why filmmakers go back to the same story: well, it's a case of 'Here's an author's oeuvre, which story is going to be most recognisable/well known/likely to appeal to the widest number of viewers?' It's the same reason there have been two dozen or so film/TV versions of THE HOUND OF THE BASKERVILLES, while the almost as good SIGN OF THE FOUR has been filmed - twice, that I can recall.

I look on the Miller 'Oh Whistle' as something of a curate's egg (I much prefer the TV versions of 'Warning to the Curious' and 'Barchester Cathedral' and 'Lost Hearts'), so am looking forward to this new version.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.23.61.249
Posted on Sunday, September 12, 2010 - 06:34 pm:   

>>>After the first series of his "gritty-gothic" police thriller Luther, Cross's adaptation delves into themes of ageing, hubris and the supernatural, adding a terrifying psychological twist in the tale to this family hearthside favourite.

I just read it again. It's just so patronising. Like, Cross will bring a real sense of menace - you know, modern menace: the best there is - to this cosy little tale written in such innocent times. For 'family' read 'fucked-up solitude and fragmentation'; for 'hearthside' read 'council estate gas fire'. For 'James' read 'Cross': a gritty guy who'll really put the terror into that mild academic.

Maybe I'm just overreacting to a press release. :-)
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 220.138.163.118
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 03:31 am:   

I would much rather see an intelligent, frightening and faithful adaptation of a different James story, to be honest. I would love to see 'Count Magnus' adapted, or 'The Mezzotint', or 'Canon Alberic's Scrapbook'. I seriously doubt anyone being less likely to want to watch any of those than another version of 'Oh Whistle'.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 02:55 pm:   

The b&w version of Oh Whistle is still powerful.

I am curious about a modern re-imagination though. Barbara mentions "Sherlock" and I also immediately thought about it as an example of a modernisation that did work splendidly, and that kept the spirit of the original.

Bring it on, I say.

Even so, what I would have preferred is not adapting a previously unfilmed MRJ tale, but rather a different and more recent author, like Aickman, Lamsley or Reggie Oliver...
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 217.20.16.180
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 03:02 pm:   

Oh Text Me and I'll Be On the Next Bus?

The total failure of imagination within the Beeb is getting depressing. Why do they keep churning out versions of the same stories over and over again. Surely the brand recognition for this and Day of the Triffids can't be that high?

Would it kill them to, say, maybe try a version of The Kraken Wakes?
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Stu (Stu)
Username: Stu

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 82.27.31.233
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 03:31 pm:   

Yeah, Gary. We don't want any shitty updatings of MR James's work like that awful Night of the Demon film.
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Barbara Roden (Nebuly)
Username: Nebuly

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 216.232.180.153
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 05:55 pm:   

Good point, Stu. NIGHT OF THE DEMON looks like a period piece to us now, in some ways, but it was contemporary in 1957.

Don't get me wrong, I love James's stories, and part of what I love about them (same as with the Holmes stories) is the period charm: that world of gentlemen antiquarians, and visits to country houses, and a certain moneyed leisure for most of the characters, most of whom don't have jobs in the sense we know, and certainly don't have to worry about how they're going to pay the mortgage. I suspect that this world wasn't QUITE as common, at the time, as James (and many other contemporary and near-contemporary genre writers) make out in their fiction, but there's no doubt that something about it appealed then, and continues to appeal to us today.

However, this period charm can work against the actual story, in a filmed version, in part because it can make the story less immediate. James famously said that one of the aims of the ghost story writer should be to make the reader think 'If I'm not very careful, this could happen to me'; and that effect is easier to achieve if the story is set in, or fairly close to, the reader's own time. Again, James wrote about this, advising against setting ghost stories in the remote past; he felt that a certain distance, time-wise, was necessary in ghost stories, but that they should be set in a period that is certainly within living memory of most readers, if not a bit closer; a decade or two removed at most, perhaps.

True, James did also say that while the detective story, for example, cannot be too up-to-date, ghost stories do benefit from a certain distance from contemporary life, but I think the best ghost stories - like the best of any kind of fiction - can be updated to contemporary times with their themes and scares intact, merely tweaked to take advantage of things we see around us every day, worries and fears that exist now but which didn't exist when the stories were originally written. SHERLOCK is an excellent recent example of how really strong source material can be seamlessly updated to the present day, or at least a more modern one, without jarring, and of course it happens all the time with Shakespeare (CYMBELINE, for example, features Europe facing the threat of war, while in England the monarchy is in peril because the King's daughter has married a commoner; the best production of it I've ever seen, at the Stratford Festival in Ontario, updated the setting to the 1930s). Another example is CHRISTMAS CAROL: one of the best versions of it I've seen is called MS. SCROOGE (1997), starring Cicely Tyson as Ebenita Scrooge, who now runs a Savings and Loan in an inner-city neighbourhood. Her miserly ways mean she doesn't have a healthcare plan for employees, and Cratchit doesn't make enough to pay for insurance, hence his concern over what's going to happen to Tim. The film was made not long after the S&L crisis in the United States, adding another layer of topicality (Ebenita tries to excuse her miserliness and meanness in part because she doesn't want her S&L to fail as so many others did).

Excuse the lengthy post, but I really think that updating James to the present day could be an excellent move, and that we shouldn't dismiss the idea out of hand. Please note, however, that I did use the qualifier 'could'. . . .
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 07:28 pm:   

Oh Text Me and I'll Be On the Next Bus

John, that's brilliant!
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 07:29 pm:   

For the record, I agree with Barbara. It could be a brilliant success if they updated James in the right way (but in reality the BBC will probably fuck it up and it'll be shite).
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Stu (Stu)
Username: Stu

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 86.16.4.223
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 07:37 pm:   

>>Surely the brand recognition for this and Day of the Triffids can't be that high?

I suspect that with at least some of the programme makers it's a case of having fond memories of the originals and wanting to have a stab at doing a version themselves. If they've come up through drama school acting, writing and directing adaptations of Hamlet and The Importance of Being Earnest etc then adapting the most famous works of James and Wyndham is a logical next step when bringing their stories to TV.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 08:29 pm:   

Stu, as I said: "Mind you, let's give this latest example a go. No need to be purist about it in a way which dismisses it before viewing. After all, I think Jonathan Miller went beyond James's brief in his adaptation."
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 08:32 pm:   

Maybe I'm just imagining a subtext, but I can't help feeling that folk frequently come to these things and think, OK, that [tale] was good for its time, but let's now update it and make it work for our more sophisticated and knowing era. As if fiction progressed like, say, technology. Just saying, like.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 09:32 pm:   

I think you're right, G, and that's why these updatings usually fail. They approach it with the wrong attitude. Updating a classic like this should be about seeing how that story works in the modern world, and not simply grafting on the latest fad or gimmick (John's above quick is probably closer to the mark thatn I'd like to admit).
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 09:33 pm:   

let's now update it and make it work for our more sophisticated and knowing era

Sophisticated and knowing? In a sense, maybe. But judging from what I read by James and others their time was much more sophisticated and knowing than ours. It's upper class England, of course, but I for one have no qualms about that.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 09:42 pm:   

That's right. Anyway, Stu, I'm presently down in Essex - staying in Southend; not far from your native Romford, I believe. So if you fancy a scrap about it, name your place . . . and I'll run the other way.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 09:44 pm:   

Hubert, the point I was making was that this is the incorrect attitude of many in the modern world. I don't agree with it.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 10:34 pm:   

Thanks for setting the record straight, Gary. If nothing else these tales show us that, to paraphrase Barbara, once the mortgage is paid, problems of a different nature surface.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 10:50 pm:   

Barbara, I wonder whether James's tales themselves - their timelessness - actually upset James's theory that this kind of stuff needs to be set in the reader's own time. I find James's antiquarian tales every bit as unsettling as good modern stuff. More so, in many cases. Perhaps in the final analysis it's the use of language, imagery, suggestive theme and suspense which trumps any environmental aspects. If the modern guys can match these qualities, bring it on. If they can't, they should go back to their noisy hip TV shows.
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Stu (Stu)
Username: Stu

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 86.24.21.116
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 11:22 pm:   

>>Stu, I'm presently down in Essex - staying in Southend; not far from your native Romford, I believe. So if you fancy a scrap about it, name your place . . . and I'll run the other way.

You'll be too busy soaking up all the culture to engage in scrapping.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 11:40 pm:   

Nowhere sells chips!!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 11:47 pm:   

I was in Brentwood earlier today. I liked Thomas Becket's gaff.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.29.0.78
Posted on Monday, September 13, 2010 - 11:48 pm:   

Not bad for a bored town.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.176.149.30
Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 12:28 am:   

Think about the Japanese Ring. It is a modern movie that comes very close to the essence of MRJ's stories (except for having a woman protagonist of course), I think much of it is very MR Jamesian in atmosphere, even while it is ann original modern story.
With this in mind I can see a modern approach and setting on one of his stories work well enough.
We'll have to wait and see, but I am quite optimistic.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 12:36 am:   

Juon is also very Jamesian, Hubert - or so it seems to me. I think those Asian horrors are generally digging about in the same psychic muck as James.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 89.240.29.237
Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 08:33 am:   

That's true, yes.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 10:57 am:   

That chase on the beach in "Oh, Whistle" is the closest thing I've ever read to an actual nightmare. To this day I wonder how he did it. Other examples abound, of course. Even in lesser-known tales James nails it, e.g. in "Wailing Well" where some far-off figures are glimpsed: "What's that on the track? On all fours - o, it's the woman." So simple and yet so effective. And yes, this instance is more than reminiscent of Juon. The remark "It is not so evident what more the creature that came in answer to the whistle could have done more than frighten" could almost be about Kayako in the very first (Japanese) Juon.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 11:22 am:   

I won't bother with this... Jonathan Miller's adaptation was well nigh perfect and there are still so many other James tales that deserve a similar treatment - the atmospheric period detail is intrinsic to the stories' effect imo.

I was very impressed with the recent version of 'A View From A Hill' and would like to see more like that.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 11:45 am:   

See, I thought 'A View From A Hill' was pretty bland - slavishly sticking to period detail and failing to be scary. I'll watch this new adap. with interest (and low expectations).
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 09:33 pm:   

I think the scene in the wood is marvelous. And the period detail - that little out-of-the-way railway station at the end is so full of atmosphere it could have been used for "The Signalman".
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 10:22 am:   

I agree, Hubert, it was a sublime adaptation that fit in perfectly with the classic series from the 70s imo.

Never got to see the other recent one they did, 'Number 13' wasn't it... any good?
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.166.117.210
Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 11:18 am:   

'Number 13' was better...even if the look of the ghost was clearly inspired by "Pipes" in Ghostwatch.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 11:19 am:   

It's not bad, but this is not one of my favourite James stories, so maybe I'm prejudiced. I'd say definitely not in the same class. I don't think the adaptation of "A View from a Hill" has ever been surpassed. You can see that the makers genuinely love the story. Or is it simply a question of budget?
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.176.234.191
Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 11:19 pm:   

Thinking now about Ju-on. There is that scene where someone in bed looks under the sheets and he sees a ghostly head near his feet (if I remember well).
That moment had the same kind of sudden intense terror that MRJ did so well in the "nook in the pillow" description in Casting the Runes.
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Matt_cowan (Matt_cowan)
Username: Matt_cowan

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 68.249.100.239
Posted on Friday, September 17, 2010 - 01:42 am:   

Man I wish they aired these in the U.S. I love all those M.R. James stories. "The Mezzotint" would be my top choice for an adaptation. "The Ash Tree" would be pretty awesome too.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 04:15 pm:   

Matt, there was an excellent BBC adaptation of 'The Ash Tree', for their Christmas Ghost Story slot, back in 1975.

The full list of faithful, and wonderfully chilling, James adaptations is:

Oh, Whistle And I'll Come To You, My Lad (1968)
The Stalls Of Barchester Cathedral (1971)
A Warning To The Curious (1972)
Lost Hearts (1973) - utterly terrifying!
The Treasure Of Abbot Thomas (1974)
The Ash Tree (1975)
A View From A Hill (2005)
Number 13 (2006)

Taken with 'Night Of The Demon' (1957) - Jacques Tourneur's film version of 'Casting The Runes' - these represent the finest screen adaptations of one of the great horror authors ever made imho.
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Seanmcd (Seanmcd)
Username: Seanmcd

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 81.157.112.165
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 12:01 am:   

Ramsey, of course, should have more of his Jamesian short work adapted. I would love to see 'Napier Court' (chilled me to the core) filmed faithfully amongst dozens of others.
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Seanmcd (Seanmcd)
Username: Seanmcd

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 81.157.112.165
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 12:08 am:   

I mean my scalp started prickling for god's sake, I was that creeped out! And I was in a hot bath at the time!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 12:27 am:   

'The Guide' would work perfectly if done with the same production values and feel for the material, both as a tribute to the classic ghost story style of James, and to alert genre filmmakers to how much Ramsey Campbell's writing style cries out to be adapted for the screen imho.

Take the novel I'm reading at the minute, 'The One Safe Place' - it's a riveting "modern noir" suspense thriller just waiting to be made!! I could see the director of 'London To Brighton', for example, having a ball with it.
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Matt_cowan (Matt_cowan)
Username: Matt_cowan

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 68.249.103.209
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 03:19 am:   

Matt, there was an excellent BBC adaptation of 'The Ash Tree', for their Christmas Ghost Story slot, back in 1975.

Unfortunately, they don't air them here in the U.S. I bought a British copy of "A Warning to the Curious" but can't watch it on my DVD player because of the region it is. I'd love to see them all if I could. M.R. James is my second favorite writer ever, right behind Ramsey.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 10:40 am:   

After 1975 the BBC continued with their Christmas Ghost Stories for another 4 years:

'The Signalman' (1976) by Charles Dickens - exceptional!
'Stigma' (1977), an original screenplay by Clive Exton, of '10 Rillington Place' fame - haven't seen it, but certainly sounds well up to scratch.
'The Ice House' (1978), I believe this was another original screenplay, by John Bowen - have vague childhood recollections of it being pleasingly haunting, and would love to see it again.
'Schalken The Painter' (1979) by J. Sheridan Le Fanu - I haven't seen it, but this was a feature length adaptation of one of Le Fanu's greatest horror tales, and is very highly thought of...

ITV also produced 2 James adaptations in the same period, neither of which I've seen:

'Mr Humphreys And His Inheritance' (1975) &
'Casting The Runes' (1979) - although this is bound to pale beside 'Night Of The Demon' imo.
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Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts)
Username: Tom_alaerts

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.78.35.185
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 03:47 pm:   

I have the ITV "Casting The Runes" on dvd.
It's indeed not that impressive, but still quite enjoyable.
As a small anectode and if I remember well, Reggie Oliver's wife plays in it.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 05:49 pm:   

Casting the Runes and Mr Humphreys I have never seen. The other adapations are mostly ok. The Ash Tree has a very nice austere setting, but the 'spiders' ruined it for me. Golliwogs emitting the kind of sound the ultimate Kaled creatures from 'Genesis of the Daleks' made!? Come on.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 06:03 pm:   

I enjoyed it, Hubert, and thought they showed just enough of the creatures and no more.

That's the thing about James, for an author with such a reputation for subtlety, his horrors are always remarkably tangible - which will always cause problems for screen adaptations. The BBC plays always got the balance just right imo.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.237.21
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 09:23 am:   

Several adaptations show a lone, vaguely threatening figure in the distance. That kind of thing works best for me. Or the bit of shrubbery with a life of its own, like in "Mr Humphreys". In the Japanese Dark Water the ghostly little girl standing forlorn in the rain similarly exudes a powerful menace, and yet at the same time we feel deeply sad about what happened to her.
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Allybird (Allybird)
Username: Allybird

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 88.104.135.73
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 09:32 am:   

'let's now update it and make it work for our more sophisticated and knowing era.'

I think it worked for the new Sherlock Holmes recently.

'Eh? The sheeted figure was marvellously handled by Miller.' Yes. Liked the Miller version.
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Seanmcd (Seanmcd)
Username: Seanmcd

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 193.113.57.161
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 11:19 am:   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19152369

Any takers on here ? Sounds an interesting premise.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 05:37 pm:   

What a brilliant idea! A great way to get kids interested in reading/writing like this. I hope it works well. Would be interesting to see the results.
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 07:33 pm:   

It'll be fun to see what the kids come up with. Of course, Reggie Oliver has already taken a decent stab at this.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Wednesday, December 25, 2013 - 09:47 pm:   

Don't miss the new adaptation of M.R. James' "The Tractate Middoth" at 9.30 on BBC2 tonight followed by an hour long James documentary. It's one of my favourite of his stories and the most Lovecraftian thing he ever wrote.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 12:07 am:   

Well I thought that was wonderful! Well done, Mark.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.156.2.209
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 08:57 am:   

Yes, I watched Christmas Day's THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH produced by Mark Gatiss. Although it was very good, well acted, I thought it was over-crammed with special effects and eccentricities. The hour long documentary he did afterwards about Monty James was wonderful.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.63.254
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 10:41 am:   

Aaaargh! Missed it.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 11:24 am:   

Both productions had me hugging myself with pleasure and I thought Gatiss's adaptation of "The Tractate Middoth" was exceptionally well done. It's the closest the handful of modern BBC adaptations have come to the atmosphere of those 70s classics imho. The documentary was a heartwarming delight from start to finish. Great stuff and the television highlight of Christmas Day for me... even topping 'Toy Story 3' and the brilliant 'Doctor Who' special.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.169.105.227
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 12:10 pm:   

My only (small) issue with THE TRACTATE MIDDOTH was that it gave us too long to look at the revenant. I'd have preferred a quick flash and be done. Otherwise an excellent programme and so much better than the insipid attempts of recent years.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 12:15 pm:   

I thought the three small glimpses we got of the demonic ghost thing were really well handled. Liked the use of swirling dust to denote its presence.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.169.105.227
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 12:27 pm:   

I loved the dust. It was just that second time, when 'William' was recalling what happened in the library, and the creature turned around, I felt the camera lingered just a moment too long. But as I say, I loved it and that was only a small quibble in an otherwise excellent play.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.23.54
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 12:35 pm:   

I thought it was the most effective BBC adaptation of James since Jonathan Miller's.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 01:11 pm:   

Praise indeed, Ramsey!

I'd rank it as more effective than "The Ash Tree" and roughly on a par with "The Signal Man" but not quite up to the terrifying quality of those early 70s James adaptations. Miller's remains the best of the lot.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.169.105.227
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 03:54 pm:   

Miller's is my favourite, although it's apparently not so popular with some James fans. Then, for me, A WARNING TO THE CURIOUS, as it's a favourite story anyway, and that misty countryside captures a wonderful atmosphere.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 08:47 pm:   

I thought The Tractate Middoth was a great homage to the original Ghost Stories for Christmas (personally, I prefer the Lawrence Gordon Clark ones to Miller's - sorry, folks!). It was certainly far better than any since those heady days of LGC. I don't rate it as highly, but it was certainly enjoyable.

I'd really like to see these continue rather than this just be a one-off. I think the reason why Mark Gatiss does this kind of thing so well is that he writes/directs them as a true fan of the originals (both the original stories and the original TV productions).

I haven't watched the documentary yet. I'll catch that on iPlayer later.
(same with Doctor Who - so I'm avoiding that thread till I've watched it!)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.67.195
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 09:25 pm:   

I love you, Caroline.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 10:17 pm:   

I love you too, Stevie - but don't tell my husband, eh?

(PS: I suspect Stevie is a little drunk, perhaps?)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.87.189
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 11:49 pm:   

Yes, I'm extremely drunk but that has nothing to do with my loving you

Do you realise it took me about a careful half an hour to make this message even half meaningful you impossibly beautiful and lovely woman!

Christ! I'm so drunk that I think that is the greatest half intelligebike post I ever posted on here.

I think I'm love with you, Caroline but maybe it's just me being incredibly drunk and mindlessly in love with a beautiful woman who actually breathed the same air as Frank Zappa!

You insufferable and yet wonderfully Beautifl whore!

To even have half a woman like you...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 85.255.235.120
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 03:56 am:   

Any sign of your hubby snuffing it yet, Caroline?

Christ! Did I say that out loud ffs!!

Now we're going to have to take extreme measures. And I really didn't want it come to thar...

Forgive me my love.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.168.36
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 09:34 am:   

Er...

I have a post-binge edit button available on request...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 10:04 am:   

Delete man! Ffs delete!!

Aow my head...
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.169.105.227
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 10:50 am:   

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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.220.97
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 01:26 pm:   

Stevie, you realise that Caroline is actually Gary Zed in drag. Him and Caroline have a sort of Norman/Mother relationship.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 03:23 pm:   



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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.63.254
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 03:26 pm:   

Reading all those horror books obviously hasn't done him much good.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 03:50 pm:   

How's your head this morning, Stevie? I hope you'll remember with fondness our secret liaison last night. But don't worry .. no-one knows 'cept you and me. Even the Irish Sea can't keep us apart.
*sigh*

Signed:
Your loving fluffybum kittypuss,
Zed McMahon
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 04:35 pm:   

Geez, you Brits and your Boxing Day shenanigans....
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.40.97
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 08:24 pm:   

Apologies, Caroline. It's strange what unrequited love and a feat of cocktails can do to a man... sigh.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 09:05 pm:   

No need to apologise, Stevie - you cheered me up no end! Er .. you *are* joking about that unrequited love thing though, aren't you? I thought you had a nice ladyfriend at the moment anyway?

Believe me, you wouldn't love me if you met me. I'm ancient, all puffed up and can hardly walk at the moment! Although you are correct that I did once breathe the same air as Frank Zappa back in the seventies (at the Old Bailey, to be precise - as you well recall).

Now, go and find yourself a nice young lady if you haven't already got one - you daft thing!
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 09:19 pm:   

Eeek! Stevie, I've just read on another thread (I haven't been here much lately) that you've been going through a rough time recently. I'm worried now that this might involve the "ladyfriend" I referred to above? Sorry, if that's the case. In fact, sorry either way. Hope you're feeling better. Being totally genuine now - even though I've never met you, you seem like a lovely chap. Here's hoping the New Year is better for all of us who have been through those rough times lately.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.57.205
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 10:30 pm:   

No it was all to do with the evil force that is Pay Day loans and a certain person in work who has been making my life hell, Caroline. My women friends (there's no "special" one at the minute although I'm currently working on it and hopeful) are all that has kept me going.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 10:44 pm:   

Hugs to you then Stevie - purely platonic ones, that is!

Now, back to the gist of this thread ... I've now watched the MR James documentary, and that was really good and informative. So that was Robert Lloyd Parry - the guy who goes round theatres "playing" MR James? Think I'm going to have to go to one of his readings some time. Is he touring again in 2014, I wonder?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.54.201
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 11:27 pm:   

What did you think of "The Tractate Middoth" you oh so huggable woman?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.45.158
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 12:41 am:   

I thought it were brilliant!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.48.93
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 01:35 am:   

Do you realise Caroline that you were present at one of the pivotal moments in rock and legal history!

Zappa beat The Old Bailey at their own game and even the judge commended him on his intelligence and erudition after the case. Oh, to have been there. You are a tangible link to one of the defining moments of my life and of the battle against censorship that defined the 20th Century.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.237.187.186
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 06:03 pm:   

"What did you think of The Tractate Middoth you oh so huggable woman?"

You're not drunk again are you, Stevie? I said what I thought of The Tractate Middoth just before you declared your love for me above:

"I thought The Tractate Middoth was a great homage to the original Ghost Stories for Christmas (personally, I prefer the Lawrence Gordon Clark ones to Miller's - sorry, folks!). It was certainly far better than any since those heady days of LGC. I don't rate it as highly, but it was certainly enjoyable.

I'd really like to see these continue rather than this just be a one-off. I think the reason why Mark Gatiss does this kind of thing so well is that he writes/directs them as a true fan of the originals (both the original stories and the original TV productions)."

Re Zappa: The strange thing is I didn't realise the significance of seeing him in the dock at the Old Bailey until much, much later.
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David Lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 2.219.133.41
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 10:15 pm:   

I finally got to watch it last night and thought it was pretty good overall. I do agree that the first look at the creature lingered a bit too long, the more nightmarish close-ups used later were much more effective.

It would be great if we could get not only a ghost story every Christmas but an anthology horror series of ghost stories off the back of this. That's probably too much to hope for, though.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.162.219.128
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 10:31 pm:   

Caroline - just sent you a message on Facebook...
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.63.254
Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2013 - 12:31 pm:   

Unfortunately the Beeb programmes cannot be accessed from abroad (an insular policy, if you ask me). Luckily, some friends recorded it and the documentary for me. I'll get to see it in a couple of days. Can't wait!

To refresh my memory I had another go at "The Ash Tree" and "A Warning for the Curious". The latter really is very good.

As for new episodes - it's odd indeed that no-one ver thought of "Count Magnus", but I'm a stickler for "Martin's Close" too (probably my all-time favourite James story), especially now that I've seen pictures of the New Inn from the story.

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