| Author | Message | ||
     Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 207.6.255.47 |
Like a first date, anything can go wrong (and usually does) when pitching a novel or collection to a publisher. What's your worst or most memorable experience on either side of this equation? If you like, read this post on the Atomic Fez blog to get the discussions going: http://www.atomicfez.com/?p=2833 | ||
| Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus) Username: Rhysaurus Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 212.219.233.223 |
I once went on a first date with a girl and tried to pitch her a novel or collection! Then I hurried to meet my publisher and I asked him back to my place for coffee! Needless to say, this simple mixup resulted in me gaining nothing that I wanted! | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
 | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
But it could have changed the publishing world. Though ultimately, not by much. The rejection letters would change from "The market has changed" to "It's not you, it's me". And the dating side would be all talk and no market penetration. | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 90.211.103.120 |
And the ending was a bit rushed. | ||
| Mbfg (Mbfg) Username: Mbfg Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 92.3.178.156 |
Not a novel or collection but an early story to dear old Peeping Tom back in 1993. It was called "Atoner" and after a month or so of watching the letter box, the one in the door that is, this was 1993 remember, in came the letter. Love the story, it said. Just a few chganges neded here, here, oh, and here. Almost too excited to hit my typewriter keys - 1993, yeah? - I did as I was told and with a song in my heart posted it back to Peeping Tom. A week, a month, a whole year went by, nothing. Then came a letter, the heart-stopping self-addressed envelope...Sorry Tel, it read. Don't want it now. Cheers Terry Grimwood | ||
| Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus) Username: Rhysaurus Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 212.219.233.223 |
I was asked to contribute to an anthology back in 1993 called Cold Cuts. I was thrilled because it was the first time I had been specifically approached by an editor to submit a piece. The invitation letter specified that my submission had to be "weird -- make it as weird as you can! There's no such thing as too weird..." The story was rejected. Years later I happened to meet the editor of the anthology. Without prompting, he said to me, "Sorry for rejecting your story. It was too weird!" | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 81.152.74.159 |
Ian, if that proposal was meant to be ironic, surely it would have been more ironic than that? Sad, sad, sad. I had a novel (all written and finished and everything) accepted by a publisher in California who yanked me around for months. Contract signed, cover art provided at a moment's notice (by me - and my dad), proofs sent, eye-watering number of printer mistakes corrected by me, Amazon listing put up, etc. Then - nothing. Months later I managed to track down the publisher's wife who said her husband had "had to leave the area for a while".  Oh and Ian, I dreamt you were incredibly old. You decided to set up a chat with JLP online and I was going to do the typing (cos I'm faster) while he flitted around the room of the derelict house we were in. I turned to you and you had aged about a hundred years. Then a huge owl fell through a hole in the ceiling and latched its beak onto my arm. It was wearing a red T-shirt (!) and I couldn't put it down or it would sink its beak in. Before that I had a terrible nightmare. My scream woke JLP, who in turn woke me. Why, yes, I was reading Mr Campbell's latest last night.  | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.20.116.71 |
Terry ... that kind of annoyance wasn't uncommon in the small press back then. It really was the school of hard knocks to wannabe young writers. One editor, who I never managed to sell to, and who I never heard of again after his magazine went bust, wrote increasingly irritating rejection letters, in which his tone became steadily more superior and patronising. Most of the stories he knocked back found a berth elsewhere - which wasn't totally unusual, because obviously people had different tastes. But the last rejection note he sent me was one too far. In it, he explained - as though explaining to a child - that a story about Chelsea FC would only be of limited interest to his readership, and that Chelsea hooligans would make very, very unsympathetic characters at the best of times - so he wasn't remotely interested. For what it's worth, my story was nothing to do with Chelsea FC or Chelsea hooligans. Neither were even mentioned in it. Now that was frustrating. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Well, the worst I had, was when the editor said that while my writing was technically and stylistically better than most of the stuff he published, he thought it 'bespoke' (yes, he used the word), of 'Stephen King morality.' He went on to explain that that kind of fiction was over. Bizarre. To publicly, even if it was inadvertently, state, that he published a certain level of fiction he wasn't 100% happy with, and then to claim I had employed some sort of SK morality, whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean (I have a good idea, but I can't be arsed going into such banal pseudo criticism), seemed to tip the rejection side of things a little too far. I was hoping for a simple yes, or no, not for us, not some personal little diatribe. Then again, it'll be the last time I want feedback.  | ||
| Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus) Username: Rhysaurus Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 212.219.233.223 |
Back in 1997 I was comissioned to write an SF novella intended for a particular anthology. The editor in charge of the project gave me one specific and slightly odd requirement: he didn’t want the inhabitants of the planet in my story to be described. I fulfilled this requirement. After sitting on the finished piece for a few months, the editor then sent me a rejection letter that stated my novella wasn't suitable because "the inhabitants of the planet in the story weren’t described." Such idiocy is not uncommon, alas! | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 81.152.74.159 |
Rhys - they're just jealous of your fossilised rocks. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.20.116.71 |
The editor who absolutely amazed me was David Green at NASTY PIECE OF WORK. He used to write the most thoughtful and detailed responses to every submission I made, both those he accepted and those he rejected. And apparently other writers had a similar experience with him. It just goes to show - there were good guys out there as well. I'm only sorry that David Green doesn't appear to be involved in the genre any more, because he produced a fine magazine and was a very helpful and responsive editor. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Paul - oh, yes, I've come across some very helpful editors, too. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.55 |
Is that how you get published then? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.244.154 |
Is the new Campbell good, Kate (he asked foolishly)? I've preordered the traycased edition, so will have to wait a bit to get my grubby mitts on it. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.20.116.71 |
Weber, it's not as easy when it's all done electronically. ; > | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 81.152.74.159 |
Gary, do you really expect me to answer that? LOL But yes, I'm over halfway through it and enjoying it (if that's the word) a lot so far. I won't say more until I've finished it - probably in the next few minutes! | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Weber - of course, how else did you think? Talk about naive (; | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 207.6.255.47 |
Kate: I've no idea what to take from the dream. I'm tempted to avoid Ramsey's novel if it's going to spawn such insanity, but will break down eventually no doubt. How in blazes would anyone set-up an on-line discussion involving JLP with you typing for him when one is actually in the same room (otherwise you wouldn't see me age about 100 years, presumably)? Then there's the owl and the red -- BLOOOOOOD! -- shirt... Perhaps there's a moment of 2001's influence and I'm Dave Bowman in the outer-dimensional experiment? Others: there are time I wish I could send off rejection letters that were just as sharp and evil as I lustily crave, but they're typically not deserved; most of the material I'm sent is excellent stuff, but the coffers just don't permit me to publish them. Damned shame. So I opt to work with people who's work I exceedingly enjoy, or people I exceedingly love to work with. Thankfully, so far, everyone's been both of those. Some more than others [flutters eyelashes at Lord P]. However, here's a rejection letter I once whipped up for the sake of a joke, and wasn't initiated by any submission (but was damned fun to do):
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| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.244.154 |
Best rejection? "There are many markets for this kind of thing. Sadly, this isn't one of them." | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 82.11.100.118 |
>>The editor who absolutely amazed me was David Green at NASTY PIECE OF WORK. He used to write the most thoughtful and detailed responses to every submission I made, both those he accepted and those he rejected. And apparently other writers had a similar experience with him. Yeah, David Green was a gent. | ||
| Mbfg (Mbfg) Username: Mbfg Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 92.2.108.230 |
Allan Ashley also writes the longst rejection slips I've ever had the pleasure to recieve. In fact. they are so diplomatic, encouraging and kind that I end up feeling happy even though the story hasn't actually got past him. Regards Terry | ||
| Steve Bacon (Stevebacon) Username: Stevebacon Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 93.186.20.145 |
I had a wonderful rejection letter from Mr Ashley. Definitely helped me sell the story elsewhere. | ||
| Ian Alexander Martin (Iam) Username: Iam Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 207.6.255.47 |
The trouble of dealing with this whole thing for the person on this side of the desk (although this might be more revealing of me than of the position), is the constant awareness that the word "no" is quite rude to use. So you end up saying just about anything except "no, I'm not publishing your (story of whatever length it is; novel, novella, novelette, short, flash, paragraph, sentence…)". Those who are gifted are obviously people like Allan Ashley and David Green, who sound like Norm in that Cheers episode when he was the Downsizing Liason for his office and people being laid-off would end-up trying to cheer him up. Maybe I have to work on being more evil…? | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 62.30.117.235 |
I had a submission once from someone whose book was going to change the world's understanding of science, philosophy, evolution, god and the universe, all in, as he put it: 16 pages in Word, with 8 pictures from the internet! And then there was the guy who said he had a brilliant idea for a novel - "we will write ART through the novel in technicolour letters!" - but wanted me to actually write it... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.237.21 |
I was once contacted by a Flemish writer who wanted to get published in the English-speaking world. "Ok," I said, "Let's get together to discuss things." It transpired that the gentleman was severely handicapped and immobilised in a wheelchair. "Ok," I said, pipe the stories through and we'll see what we can do." It transpired he didn't have a computer, so he sent me the typed stories via snail mail. Unfortunately they weren't very good, but what the hell, if he wanted me to translate them . . . It then transpired he wanted me to do the translations first, get in touch with a major American publisher like Thor, if you please, and if I managed to sell them he'd pay me. No, thank you, that's not the way I do business, Sir. He turned bitter then. Wasn't it a goddam shame that a poor handicapped soul couldn't get published because he lacked the proper connections? And that no-one was willing to help him to secure a deal? I told him I was willing to do the work, but not for free. It then transpired he had no money (of course). | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Stephen/Hubert - your examples of people who seem to have no grasp of what writing or even submitting work entails, tenuously leads me to a story one of my closest friends. My friend has been a professional actor for twenty years. He's what you might term a jobbing actor. His resume is long, and consists of film work, theatre, workshops, adverts, radio, voice-overs, etc. So, a real full-time actor. He told me that people are constantly telling him that 'they'd always fancied having a go at acting,' that 'it looked easy,' etc, etc, Amen. One day he finally snapped. He challenged the person who had casually dismissed acting as 'easy as piss' and said he could improvise at the drop of the proverbial hat. They happened to be in a group, walking through a park somewhere in London, on a nice sunny day. My friend said, 'Okay. Okay. Let's do it now.' The accused: 'What now, now?' My friend: 'Yes, now, now. I'll make it easy. You're in a park (makes a quick gesture to ensure the accused got how easy he was making it), and you see me, sitting on a bench, covered in blood. What do you do, what do you say...improvise.' Of course the accused stood there for a minute, dancing nervously around the idea, laughing with embarrassment, practically scratching his head at his sudden submergence into the acting world, and finally said: 'Yeah, you're right, it's harder than it looks.' It's the same with the writing. If these people can't even fathom the 'complexities of submitting work, its standards etc, then how on earth do they presume they are ever going to write anything? Boring anecdotal story over. | ||
| Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus) Username: Rhysaurus Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 212.219.233.223 |
He should have stolen the bleeding man's wallet and run away! (I wouldn't do this, by the way). | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Rhys - even that, my friend, would have been something. | ||
| Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus) Username: Rhysaurus Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 212.219.233.223 |
Yes, it would have been theft! | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Yes, but imagine the storyline which would have developed. Personally, I thought all soap opera plots were thought up this way. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.20.116.71 |
The most memorable occasion on which I was damned with faint praise came after an acquaintance read my book STAINS. "I like your new book, by the way," he said. "I'd write books if I had the time." | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
If anybody ever says to me "Ooh, I've always wanted to write" my standard response is "Fuck off and do it, then." | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Zed - I've always wanted to write.  | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Paul - him being an acquaintance means you can officially and legally t**t him. Somebody said to me recently, how much are you going to get for your first collection? When I told them, they exclaimed, "Oh that's awful, and after you put so much work into it." I tried to explain how much money ISN'T made by working in the Small Press, and that every time somebody has a book published it doesn't mean they are on a commercial contract, and thus in receipt of squillions of pounds/dollars, etc. But she didn't get it.  There was no conception of the act of writing, the love that goes into it, only the money which should come as a result. She didn't fathom the joy which writing brings me. Needless to say I buried her at the bottom of my mum's garden. Yes, she was an acquaintance, but I'm a gentleman with women. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
My father-in-law, who's obsessed with money, always asks "How much are you getting". I told him I'm making 100k each from Angry Roboy and Solaris. The tit. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.244.154 |
Told a guy about a story sale recently and I was clearly excited. He asked how much I was getting for it. I said, £60. He said, that doesn't sound like much. Then he asked me how long it took me to write it. I said three evenings. I swear down he did the hours/pay ratio calculation and then glanced away as if he simply couldn't understand my excitement. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.244.154 |
Or my brother's mother-in-law: "I'd love to be able to write, but I'd have to go to evening classes." | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.237.21 |
I swear down he did the hours/pay ratio calculation and then glanced away as if he simply couldn't understand my excitement. This has happened to me, and there were very strong overtones of "Either you're lying (i.e. everybody knows writers are rich) or you're insane." I always add I'm not a professional, which usually helps, but not always. |