| Author | Message | ||
     Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 81.155.23.31 |
And today, the UK Government announces the ‘cuts’. We would not wish to be where we are at today (by whatever or whosever fault), but ‘cuts’ are surely needed; it’s just we wince at them because they are to be administered by millionaires like David Cameron and George Osbourne? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
It's not just that millionares are administering the cuts, it's also the fact that all their millionare mates will be okay while a lot of the rest of us lose our jobs/houses/dignity. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 81.155.23.31 |
Yes, 'cuts' could easily include an imposed tax of 50% of savings above a high level (although a high level will mean a different thing to different people). Yes, a cut into a little leads to desperation while a cut into a lot leads to mere annoyance and, if the poorer are thus more affected - as Zed rightly supposes - then the millionaires will be trampled to death under foot by desperate people. So it would make logical sense to impose the cut I've suggested above. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Yeah, I've seen very little about the banks and financial institutions being brought to account. Just about effecting those in the lower strata of society and those who can't afford it. While bankers are told not to do it again and still draw huge bonuses. Yeah, that'll tell 'em Dave. The Tories, still a bunch of bellends. What a surprise. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.146.251 |
It's worth taking some time to look at the reasons for the economic crisis and the reasons why this wholesale destruction of the public sector is being advanced as the only solution. Over 2008 and 2009, the Government used over a trillion (a thousand billion) pounds of public money to bail out the banks after irresponsible speculation, driven by greed and permitted by deregulation, created a profound crisis. This crisis is now global in nature but had its origins in the derangement of the European and US economies by the dominance of the financial sector. The only member of the UK Cabinet who is not lying about this is Vince Cable – presumably Cameron is letting him divert from the party line to keep disillusioned LibDems on board. The lie that the cause of the economic crisis is New Labour's 'overspending' is being repeated over and over, in the knowledge that (as Goebbels said) if you repeat a lie often enough people stop questioning it and assume it always to have been true. Shortly before the collapse of Northern Rock, Cameron said the banks were 'over-regulated'. In recent months, the major banks have celebrated the return of their mega-bonuses, with billions (cumulatively) being paid out to their executives to reward them for profits paid for by our money. Every time a bank executive trousers a £50,000 bonus that is somebody's job, that is a hospital ward, that is a district's home visits for the elderly, that is somebody's home, gone out the window. The truth is that the Tory government (let's hear no more of this 'coalition' nonsense) is using this crisis to do what it never dared to do before: to destroy the mixed economy we have had since the late 1940s, to break down the structures of the public sector and hand over the pieces to private industry as lucrative franchises. What was our property as a people – what our grandparents and parents worked to provide and sustain – is being sold off. The current 'restructure' of the NHS will achieve its privatisation – not by a single dramatic selloff (as with the rail service), but by financial pressures forcing the components of a fragmented, decentralised system to franchise out their services. The process will appear spontaneous and inevitable, but it follows from this government's annihilation of the NHS infrastructure. (A destruction that, it must be admitted, New Labour did much to soften up the NHS for.) In the 1980s, the Tory government said recession and structural unemployment were "a price worth paying" for the political goal of destroying the power of trade unions to defend their workers' terms and conditions. Now, the Tory government will be confident that making everyone but the rich suffer is a price worth paying for finally destroying the post-war consensus and removing all barriers to exploitation and greed. Unless we stop them. As with the Poll Tax, we have to let them know that enough is enough. A cabinet containing 18 millionaires does not care about public healthcare, public education, public housing, social services or employment rights. If we want these things we will have to fight to keep them. Alternatively, we can just sit on our hands and tell the next generation they never existed. Talk to your union about fighting the cuts. Join anti-cuts movements in your community. This government has no mandate: it's a marriage of convenience, with one partner helping to destroy the things it vowed to defend. Enough public pressure can split the 'coalition' and force the wreckers to think again. The alternative is to see our society horribly and viciously transformed. Don't wait – join the fightback. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.74 |
Michael Caine's argument to Tony Blair about not taxing the rich too much went something like this: 'Oi, don't throw bloody taxes at me or I'll leave the country.' I may be paraphrasing. But his point stands. If there's somewhere the rich people can go and pay lower taxes, that's where they'll go. The only way to tackle this issue, then, is globally. And Gordon Brown found there was no stomach from a lot of world leaders to introduce the measures needed to fix that issue. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.146.251 |
One particular policy statement sums up the whole thing for me. Health Secretary Andrew Lansley has announced that hygiene and safety standards in NHS hospitals will no longer be regulated, because 'patient choice' will ensure that only safe hospitals can survive financially. To get a sense of what that means, change the word 'hospital' to 'train'. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
It's amazing what a bad conscience can lead to . . . http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11579988 | ||
| Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus) Username: Rhysaurus Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 212.219.233.223 |
Please, please, O whatever Gods exist out there... please, please, please... MAKE HER DIE! | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I'm with you every step of the way, Joel. That was a quite brilliant analysis, and couldn't disagree with a single word. Power to the people! Let's unseat these wankers... | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
As the man said, how much power and to which people? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Union? I wish I belonged to one. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
Live now, folks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11566509 | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
Competition time!! However many different ways can you phrase the following sentiment? "Despite the contractual obligations we inherited from the previous government . . . " | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 88.106.26.37 |
The 'cuts' agenda is an ideal cover for some reverse social engineering, taking the lumpen proletariat back to Victorian times when the lower orders definitely knew their place. Look for the small print in this spending review - the half-articulated phrases which later become fact. Pay particular attention to Social Housing priorities and Welfare payments. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 81.155.23.31 |
Gary, that link to the actual speech shows Nick Clegg nodding sagely beside George Osborne. Who voted Liberal? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
Remember: the devil is in the details . . . | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Complete power, and with it responsibility, to all the people! And don't worry I'm not being taken in by Verkhovenskian rhetoric. For society to succeed we need to accept the responsibility every single individual within that society has for every other individual. That acceptance of responsibility demands self-knowledge and self-control, as opposed to blinkered selfishness, and generosity, as opposed to enmity or, worse, disinterest towards your neighbour, from everyone, no matter what social strata that individual inhabits. Everyone seems to know and accept this, apart from the bankers and their shadowy cohorts, in the aftermath of the greatest financial swindle by the elite the world has ever seen over this last decade. And so the Tories have the gall to try and pull off the greatest hoodwink ever in British political history by extolling the "big society" and "we're all in it together" soundbites, while tearing down the very fabric of social togetherness that has seen the post-war years become the fairest, most stable period that these islands have ever seen. We are faced with an ideological battle. Whether to let the Tories destroy everything that was built up, accept their lies, roll over and return to a world of cataclysmic social division - them and us x10. Or we can stand up as people and, as Joel says, fight this ideological opportunism every step of the way, to protect everything we have held dear up to this point in our lives. Today needs to be the day when the gloves come off, when the proletariat wakes up, and ACTION, as opposed to grumbling, becomes the order of the day!! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Well said, Joel and Stevie! Sadly, neither I nor my hubby are in a union though.  During the Poll Tax debacle, I took some "direct action" myself (legal challenge to my council, getting my fight on the front page of the local rag, that kind of thing). But nowadays I'm way too tired to know what I can do, as an individual, to help with this mess. There are some real "horror stories" which I've been hearing about on the fibromyalgia forum I visit. Benefits for disabled people have been being targetted for some time already. There are people - often with "invisible disabilities", like chronic pain and chronic fatigue syndrome - in fear for their homes and their families. The stress is often making their illnesses worse, with depression taking hold and suicide hinted at. I fear many people in this situation could take their lives as a result of these cuts. The "invisible illnesses" are easy prey, as it's easy for the DWP advisers to look at someone, say "You look fine", and thenbrand them as fakers/scroungers. I think what the government doesn't realise is that they aren't actually saving anything by persecuting those on long-term benefits who genuniely can't work (or genuinely can't find work). There's surely going to be more pressure on the NHS as a result of illnesses caused/made worse by increased stress? People who are being refused sickness benefits are appealing against the decision if they have the energy, so that's an extra cost to the DWP in dealing with appeals. And what about this "big society" crap - where charities, etc are supposed to step in and help? Well, because so many people are going to Citizen's Advice Bureaus asking for help with appeals when their sickness benefit is stopped, the CABs - already having their council funding cut back - are having to turn people away as they can't cope with the numbers. There's something very, very bad going on here - a huge "timebomb" - and I'm not at all sure how it's going to end. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 81.155.23.31 |
Perhaps Nations as well as individuals suffer impulses towards self-harming? There is something going on here that needs sensitivity, not rampaging the streets. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.77 |
My feelings about Margaret Thatcher are mellower than they used to be. I'm no longer looking forward to the party when she dies, or considering dancing on her grave. A sign of maturity on my part? I don't know. I mentioned to someone today, concerning the rise in rent in Housing Association homes, that some people I know (he's a chef for the naval dockyards, on reduced hours, and working a second job cooking in a school, so doing 7 days a week; she's a care home worker, facing renegotiation of her contract when the home passes from local government to private ownership, and will see her working more hours for less money) will find it hard to manage. He said 'Well, do they own a car? They can't be that badly off. My children pay mortgages, why can't they pay a fair rent? I don't know how much they earn, but they must have two wages. What's the problem?' Sounds harsh. But poverty's not what it was. And that was actually the point he was making, if boorishly, while he enjoys his final salary pension scheme and gets his winter fuel allowance, which is used for buying relatives presents. Hey, ho, eh? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
Does that make everyone who dislikes Thatcher immature, then? You've mentioned on here before, Mark, that what Thatcher did - by which I presume you mean her wholesale subscription to, and implementation of - 'Chicago School' economics (Friedman, et al) was something "she had to do". That is by no means the received wisdom. In fact, many believe it was just another example - as many would say, today is - of Disaster Capitalism, an attempt in this case to overcome decades of post-war debt by 'shock therapy' (a la Chile and its charming head honcho Mr Pinochet). As we've seen since in innumerable countries (eg, Russia) where the rich get richrichricher and the rest of us, well, er, don't. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
Alan Johnson's speech after the S-R - if a bit, in his own words, Punch and Judy-esque - said it all. There Osbourne was trading on Labour's alleged incompetence and profligacy, but was then reminded that in 2007, months before the 'crash', Osbourne himself had actually criticised Labour for having too much regulation of the banks and for not spending enough, let alone conducting a review. U-turn and hypocrisy is just a Tory way of life. Ed Balls would have duffed him up. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.68 |
Not at all, Gary. I loathed Thatcher when I was younger, prfoundly disagree with her policies still for the most part, though understand the climate her policies were implemented under. She was perhaps the most partisan PM in modern history. I shared plenty of my school lunches with miners' kids who couldn't afford lunch. I just don't have any hate for her anymore, despite having plenty of ire left to fire me if I wanted it. And I think that's a good thing. For me, at any rate. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
OK, mate. Was just wondering. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.68 |
I was in a starnge catchment area for school, btw. Wound up at school alongisde miners' kids and the Ferrari dealer's son, the council house children and the detached house mob. One lad even had a pet lion, I remember, while other kids hadn't a car in their lives. So we'd the Better Dead Than Red mob, who were trying to get in the golf club in their teens, and the social club lot, bruised and demoralised from the Miners' Strike. I was fortunate that my parents came from the working class, council house mill working sector of Huddersfield and not the mining edge. But it was close. My parents now own a house, for which they've sincerely worked their arses off. And thank Goodness for that, because had they not had that home I'd've been homeless this year, if I'd not been able to stay with them. And yup - I'll be getting kicked by today's cuts. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.68 |
If someone's getting benefits to live on, at what point do the morals of tax payers come into play and influence the way those on benefits spend that money? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
What realistically can they spend them on? At least morality involve some kind of choice. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
If anyone's interested, there's still time to lobby your MP to support John McDonnell's LIAME Bill. The bill would do one hell of a lot to defend the right to strike, which is something I suspect we're going to want to use in the not too distant future. If you go here: http://www.unitedcampaign.org.uk/bill.php You can email a letter to your MP. It takes minutes to do (if you want to spend a bit longer on it, you can personalise the letter) but it could make some sort of a difference. I doubt it'll change the mind of a Tory verminoid, but I bet there's plenty of Lib-Dem and Labour MPs who'd like to urinate on Cameron's pomme frites. As it were. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.69 |
Gary, the old cliche: the Sky subscription. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.69 |
I do worry about that legal strike banning stuff. Trade unions really need to up their public image profile, mind. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
Mark, it doesn't help when most of the news media is owned by very rich people. Who tend to be right wing. And will therefore paint the unions as the second coming of the Khmer Rouge. We also have a raft of anti-terrorist legislation that's perfectly suited for clamping down on legitimate social protest. I just really hope that the people of this country aren't stupid and chickenshit enough to fall for it this time around. I'd like to think we're better than that. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
>>>Gary, the old cliche: the Sky subscription. Yeah, which lasts three months before it gets cut off. And then the black-market 'chipped' version which winds up Daily Mail readers. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.171.129.77 |
Nice to see the Mail arguing against benefit cuts for a change, mind. Even if it was child benefit for those earning over 40K a year! | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.111.132.33 |
I've sent my letter, Simon! | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.17.252.126 |
So have I. Thanks for the link, Simon. | ||
| Nathaniel Tapley (Natt) Username: Natt Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.15.130.4 |
I made a small thing about the cuts, which may raise a small smile for those of you who are seething. It's here: http://nathanieltapley.com/2010/10/21/sir-ian-bowler-on-the-cuts/ | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.36.106 |
Brilliant, Nat! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
Hahaha. That's hilarious! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Brilliant. Love it. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
Fantastic, Nat! | ||
| Mbfg (Mbfg) Username: Mbfg Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 82.6.94.181 |
Just arrived. Well said, Joel, you summed the situation up a test. The innocent are being punished for rhea avarice of the bastards ho make, build or create nothing but money. I work in further education and we're already feeling the effects, even though the last government, and presumably this one, wants everyone to remain in education until they are 18. What education? The courses are being butchered, the resources held back and staff utterly demoralised by incompetent government meddling. I'm afraid the Eton boys have no idea how normal folk live and what we have to put up with. And they won’t save much by throwing thousands out of work. There isn’t much work for them to go to so the state will end up paying out benefit anyway so where is the saving? And Rhys, can you add Rupert Murdoch and his hideous son into your prayer? H was mentioned at the bottom of the Thatcher article you loved so much and reminded me of how much I loathe him. Cheers Terry | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.111.132.33 |
Nat...I adore you. If you had that on facebook I'd definately share it. :>) | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>I work in further education and we're already feeling the effects ... The courses are being butchered, the resources held back and staff utterly demoralised by incompetent government meddling.<< Terry - same here in higher education. It's a disaster for the future of the country re skills/education. >>And they won’t save much by throwing thousands out of work. There isn’t much work for them to go to so the state will end up paying out benefit anyway so where is the saving?<< Well, no, since they're cutting benefits too and throwing people off benefits (see my rant earlier in the thread about ESA - the new "incapacity benefit" for disabled people). Maybe I'm daft but I can't see how cutting benefits to get people back into work is going to help when there are no jobs to go to. I wonder if any politicians have actually thought of that?  | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.214.133 |
Caroline – yes, of course they have. They're applying the 'shock doctrine' to the UK. Taking us back to a time when the poor, the disabled and immigrants knew their place and weren't uppity. But they're leaving it up to councils to do the real dirty work by deciding exactly which services will be cut. Birmingham City Council is cutting 32 jobs among social workers who work specifically with at-risk children. Doesn't sound like much when they're cutting thousands of jobs in this city alone... but a report last year, following a case where a child starved to death, established that Birmingham had the worst record for social care of at-risk children in the country, and amidst national headlines the council declared there would be huge improvements. Will there fuck. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
The Shock Doctrine? You mean that hard-left professional protestor Naomi Klein who makes a career out of saying things like this? That looney left twaddle? David Icke's mates? All those guys? The conspiracy theorists? Sorry, just getting rid of some hate here. | ||
| Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus) Username: Rhysaurus Registered: 01-2010 Posted From: 212.219.233.223 |
There's still time to read my own version of Thatcher's life and death before the real one dies! http://www.bookotron.com/agony/fiction/hughes-bouffant_terrible.htm | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.194.128 |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11606192 | ||
| Seanmcd (Seanmcd) Username: Seanmcd Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 86.155.107.148 |
I shall be at the Belfast City centre demonstration tomorrow afternoon with my red flag held high!! |