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     John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
We’ve started our traditional Xmas viewing early here at Probert Towers with this grim, miserable sleazefest from 1980. Neither of us had seen it previously but I knew it was controversial and I also had the memory of the stills of Tom Savini’s scalping effects from an early issue of Fangoria (quite possibly number 7 – the one with Jack Nicholson on the cover) filed away somewhere in my brain to forewarn me that this might be a bit of a trial. Joe Spinell stars in a career making / breaking /irreparably damaging performance as killer Frank Zito. There is no mystery and little suspense – the film is merely, as one review has put it, ’88 minutes inside Frank’s head’, random mumblings, horrible hallucinations and all. Frank murders women, scalps them, and then nails the hair to wax dummies he keeps in his flat. At the end of the film the dummies come to life and tear him to bits in his most disturbing hallucination yet. Somehow along the way he develops a relationship with Caroline Munro who seems so out of place in amongst all this it merely adds to the weirdness – basically she’s a Euro-babe who’s been dropped into a big bucket of American sleaze and from the way she acts doesn’t even seem to realise it. There are hints of a backstory that it’s all the fault of his abusive mother and that’s certainly a sufficiently simplistic explanation to rightly anger the groups who protested about this film at the time of its release. And yet at the same time there’s a horrible sincerity and integrity to this film that does elevate it above (or depress it below?) the average slasher film and horror fans on this board who go for this sort of thing and haven’t seen it should make time for it. I can’t say I liked it but it’s still with me this morning and it’s why I’m writing this. I suspect I won’t be able to entirely get it out of my head and I do mean that in the best way possible. When I got out of my car this morning, looked across the car park and saw someone sitting in their own car with the lights on staring at me I felt a real chill & thought of Frank Zito. A singular entry in the slasher stakes and deserving of hesitant praise. | ||
| Frank (Frank) Username: Frank Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 85.222.86.21 |
Spinell was a fine actor. Didn't he commit suicide? | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
We started off giggling at the film and making silly faces at each other. “Wow, this is sleazy.” “Oh my god, the heavy breathing! The cravat! The specs!” But our laughter tailed off fairly quickly as the grim oppressive hideosity took over. Just past the hour mark we noted that at last Something Had Happened story-wise. Up to that point it was just scene after relentless scene of the “Maniac” doing what a “Maniac” does. As stated above, 88 minutes in his head… **shudder** I think it says something about a film when the gory scenes actually serve to lighten the mood. It’s curiously chaste too. With the exception of Caroline Munro, the actresses were apparently porn stars and the film was destined for “unrated” status anyway, so it’s weird that it isn’t brimming with gratuitous nudity. At first we wondered if perhaps Ms Munro hadn’t been given the full script, as it looked like she thought she was in a totally different film. But no, again weirdness reigned: instead of the familiar “Oh, that was just a little job I did in New York, it was awful and I never saw the film and never expected that anyone else would” line you often hear from horror actors, she had wonderful memories of the film and everyone involved and promoted it at the time. In fact, she'd done it as a favour to Joe Spinell, filling in for Daria Nicolodi. It's a disturbing (and disturbed) film, but what’s most disturbing of all is the utter conviction in Joe Spinell’s performance. It’s as though this was his Hamlet, the role he’d dreamt of his whole life, the one character he wanted to fully inhabit and bring to life. I found myself wishing he’d camp it up or go too far (according to Tom Savini, he desperately wanted to – ugh) just so I could convince myself that this role wasn’t really as close to his heart as it appeared to be. Yes, it’s still with me this morning too. And for some reason the final scene won’t go away. Not the gruesome finale but the weird silence of the cops who burst in afterwards, have a look and then just wander off, closing the door behind them. It’s wrong. It’s weird. It’s haunting. The whole film is all of those things, but that final scene is just so – cold, I guess is the word. Empty. Like Frank Zito.  | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
Saw this film a good ten years ago now. I remember it as a tremendously cold and ugly film, but- as Lord and Lady P say- one that has a terrible kind of vitality to it, mostly due to Spinell's performance. Never realised Caroline Munro was in it though. Mind you, only recently remembered who she was after seeing that screening of Captain Cronos Vampire Hunter... (sighs wistfully) | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
Yes, it’s still with me this morning too. And for some reason the final scene won’t go away. You think that's bad - I can't stop singing the Flashdance song! To explain: there is an urban legend that the song was inspired by this movie and amazingly one of the extras on this DVD is Maniac's director William Lustig interviewing the two writers of the song who explain it was actually inspired by the discovery of John Wayne Gacy's victims (probably). Their at-home performance of the track gave us some much-needed smiles after all the grimness. But now I keep hearing the bloody thing! | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
Thanks. Now I'm hearing it too!  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
I remember it as a tremendously cold and ugly film God, yes, but it's also oddly honest and even touching in a fucked-up kind of way (he's creating people to love him in his flat, with the hair and the dummies). But even I felt like I needed to take a shower after this one. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Definitely one to seek out on DVD... sounds right up my street. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.2.249.77 |
I seem to remember one very daft bit where Caroline Munro meets the main protagonist briefly in the park, where he lets her take a photograph of him. And then, the next day, happily lets him into her apartment, even though she doesn't know who the hell he is and has no clue how, or why, he's found out where she lives. I think that moment required too great a suspension of belief for me to take it seriously from there on. But otherwise I agree with everything said. It's a very dark, depressing film, with no real subtext or serious attempt at drama to redeem it. It's clearly intended to do little more than realistically portray an insane man living in a big, impersonal city, and most of the time passing unnoticed, but I'm not sure there's enough artistic merit even to justify that. I acquired a copy on DVD when I was obsessively collecting horror movies. It's now sitting on what I call my 'trash shelf' - which consists mainly of films that I don't know what to do with. I resist chucking them away, but I can't bring myself to watch them again either, so they are literally gathering dust. Sadly, the more horror movies I've collected over the years, the more and more have finished up on this shelf. That's probably why I'm now looking for a new hobby. Try as I may, and a deep lover of the genre though I am, I just can't fall in love with trash. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Paul - send it to me. I lost my copy years ago.  | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
Frank - apparently there's "some debate" about how Spinell actually died. Zed - I knew starting this thread would stir you into wanting to watch it again. In case Paul's is too encrusted with dust apparently there's an Anchor Bay Region 1 disc available for about £5-00 and you get the soundtrack album as well (although I'm still a bit amazed that the music has sold so well on CD)- all in a lovely shiny tin. So you have something to play to all those mannequins | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
John - where's it available for that price? | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
Can't find that exact one but here's the Region 1 Blue underground disk for £6-60: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maniac-DVD-Region-US-NTSC/dp/B000JU7JIW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UT F8&qid=1291124232&sr=8-4 | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Thanks, John - I've been meaning to replace my lost VHS copy for ages. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Just ordered the uncut Rosemary's Killer for £3.99, too. Nice. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
For a second I read that as "the uncut Rosemary's Baby" and nearly shit a brick!!  | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
I saw this for the first time about a year or so ago - on a VHS copy, no less. It certainly maintains a powerful atmosphere, and Spinell really throws himself into the role. I think this was something of a dream role for him. Didn't he have a hand in the script too? It's maybe a little too one-note, but the climax, and Savini's spectacular exploding head certainly stick in the mind. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
He wrote the original story, John & co-wrote the screenplay. It IS very one-note - as Kate remarked above we couldn't believe it got to the hour mark before something other than sleazy murders took place. But it's still in my head, which is always a sign that a film's done it's job! | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.143.135.212 |
'There are hints of a backstory that it’s all the fault of his abusive mother and that’s certainly a sufficiently simplistic explanation to rightly anger the groups who protested about this film at the time of its release' - sad fact is John, it's entirely simple things like this that DO lead to people becoming serial killers. I did a lot of reading up on serial killers for a while and more often than not it seemed their early lives were pretty terrible. I know that's no excuse but it's also unavoidably true. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.2.249.77 |
There are one or two exceptions to that rule, Tony, but not many, I'll admit. I'm sure I remember hearing that Ted Bundy had a fairly normal upbringing in an all-American family. Also, when I was a copper, Peter Sutcliffe's family always came over as being very decent. His dad was said to have been strict with Sutcliffe when he was young, but not overly so, plus most fathers were quite strict in those days. I think there are all kinds of factors that combine to create serial killers, but I agree that in many, many cases there appears to be massive childhood trauma. | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
Paul/Tony: That's all true, but in the case of this film it's a sloppy contrivance. There's some flashback dialogue of the "Please don't lock me in the closet!" variety that's used as a shortcut to providing backstory. It doesn't advance the story (or is that "story"?) to know how this killer came to be but an excuse that over-simplified has a whiff of "Oh, it's all his mother's fault" about it. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.2.249.77 |
I agree, Kate. As I mentioned before, I'm not a lover of this film. I first bought it because so many websites seemed to rave about it as a forgotten gem, but for me it just falls into that category of lowbrow horror wherein the extreme nastiness is an end in itself. There isn't really a shred of dramatic or artistic merit to help drive the viewer through the endless horrible scenarios. In that respect, I'd classify it alongside the original LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT, though it's a much better made movie than that, so I give it a little bit more kudos. Sadly ... for Gary and co, though I'm close to giving up collecting horror movies, I'm still wearing my completist's hat at present, and that negates any possilbity of my releasing any titles, even the ones I don't really like. But if/when I decide to, you chaps will be the first to know. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
It's weird to be even taking the time out to compare one ostensibly reprehensible piece of work with another, but Maniac is a better film than Last House on the Left (which I saw for the first time this year and wasn't very impressed by at all). Last House has a rather inappropriate gleefulness about its proceedings whereas Maniac is nothing other than grim, ugly and rather sad. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.2.249.77 |
JLP - agree absolutely. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
nothing other than grim, ugly and rather sad A bit like life, for some people. This, for me, is the purpose of horrible little grindhouse films like these: to remind us that sometimes life is just a big bucket of shit. At times I find them strangely comforting. But I'm insane. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
Yes you are | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
I find it's easier to lack sanity. Everything begins to make sense. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.68 |
Another remarkably grim film of the kind is Don't Go in the House (with an even nastier mother responsible for it all). | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
Another remarkably grim film of the kind is Don't Go in the House (with an even nastier mother responsible for it all). Another that I've not seen. Somehow I have managed to see Don't Answer the Phone which I seem to remember being at the sillier end of the sleaze spectrum. | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
Don't Go in the House is seriously nasty. Yet another one I saw on cable when I was probably a bit too young.  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Yeah, I remember seeing that one - if memory serves, I actualy stopped watching because it was so relentlessly downbeat. Or I might have watched the last half-hour on fast-forward. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.131.0.116 |
I haven't seen that one. Do I want to? (Silly question ) | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.142.147.0 |
Thanks to Zed mentioning it above the latest movie in our season of festive viewing has been Rosemary's Killer. Which was rubbish | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
A while back Esther and I spent some time braintstorming increasingly ridiculous Don't-style film titles. Don't Look in the Greenhouse is the only one that sticks in my mind at the moment. Shortly after watching Maniac I watched William Friedkin's Cruising for the first time. And who should turn up as an extra, but Joe Spinnell! As a cop! Needless to say, I had my eye on him whenever he turned up... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.202.203 |
Cruising's mad, isn't it? A really odd flavour to it. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
Don't Look in the Greenhouse...Hahahaha! I love that, John. JLP - I remember Rosemary's Killer being pretty decent (the uncut version, anyway). I plan to re-watch it this week. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.142.147.0 |
Zed - I laboured long and hard (ten minutes anyway) to come up with something to say about it & that's as far as I got last night! I do, however, look forward to your thoughts, as always! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.166.117.210 |
I'll let you now what I make of it, old chap. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
JLP - I just watched Rosemary's Killer for the first time since I was about 15...and you're right, it was rubbish. Crap acting, barely competent direction, bad script, a mystery that isn't in any way mysterious, all carried off with zero wit or finesse but with some very nasty death scenes courtesy of Tom Savini. I can't believe I thought this one was good back in the day... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.155.202.203 |
The films we saw as kids don't exist in the same form, in some ways. | ||
| Skip (Wolfnoma) Username: Wolfnoma Registered: 07-2010 Posted From: 216.54.20.98 |
Like the original Tron? | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
Zed - it's such a shame when that happens isn't it? Have you by any chance seen the Enzo G Castellari trilogy (Bronx Warriors I & II and Warriors of the Wasteland) that Shameless have released on DVD in what looks like a lovely set? I haven't seen those since I was 15 and I'm worried they may actually turn out to be awful | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.0.89.141 |
For this reason, JLP, it's always a delight when something you enjoyed as a youngster turns out to be just as good now. I occasionally find this when dipping into the Hammer selection box. Some - mainly the raunchy ones - are unadulterated crap, but it's always great to see that others have remained timeless classics. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.142.147.0 |
That's very true - it was a pleasure to show Kate Blood From The Mummy's Tomb recently and discover it really hadn't aged at all. Demons of the Mind has actually weathered very well to become one of the best Hammers and Dr Jekyll & Sister Hyde has survived the test of time, too. | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
As a child I was greatly traumatised by Dick Maas's THE LIFT, a film about - you guessed it - an evil elevator. I haven't seen it since I was nine years old, but I expect it'll have a lot less of an impact these days... Particularly as the IMDb has it listed as a comedy. I have seen Maas's follow-up, AMSTERDAMNED, since. Killer frogman stalks the canals of Amsterdam. Notable for the opening scene in which a corpse dangling from a bridge is dragged bloodily along the glass roof of a packed tourist boat. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Blood From The Mummy's Tomb recently and discover it really hadn't aged at all. Demons of the Mind has actually weathered very well to become one of the best Hammers and Dr Jekyll & Sister Hyde has survived the test of time, too. I agree completely, John! These are still terrific little films. Amsterdamed is a good (and odd) little Dutch giallo... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
JLP - haven't dared get the Bronx Warriors set because of the reasons you mention. Btw, can you remember a film called Atlantis Interceptors? | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.142.147.0 |
My review of Amsterdamned got posted here a few seasons ago - I thought it was really pretty good. And (shock horror!) no- I can't remember Atlantis Interceptors - they sound like Captain Scarlet Dinky toys Cue Tony... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
I've just watched a remastered edition of the uncut version of Maniac...somethoughts on the film (copy-pasted fro Facebook): For a start, there's Joe Spinell's truly disturbing lead performance: his character is the very heart of sweaty, psychotic self-absorption. Also, consider the air of utter sleaze and degredation the film evokes. The film basically succeeds too well at its aims. The filmmakers wanted this to be the most down and dirty,morally repellant horror film ever seen at that time...and that's exactly what we got. It's like 'Taxi Driver' made by drugged-up, woman-hating sociopaths with a couple of cameras, a small budget, and a modicum of cinematic talent. An extraordinary picture. I'm a huge fan of the shiny, multi-million-dollar budgeted 'Silence of the Lambs', but I'll take Spinell's misguided micro-budget labour of love any day of the week...seriously. It's a complete immoral mess of a film, but there's something oddly endearing about the whole enterprise. For the record, as good as the actors were in 'Silence of the Lambs' I was constantly aware that I was watching good actors play serial killers. With 'Maniac', I often thought I was watching somebody's genuine homicidal emotional breakdown on screen... | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.142.147.0 |
I knew you'd appreciate it, my friend! Sometimes it's almost a bit too realistic | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Well, you know me. I love a bit of sleaze. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.202.102 |
They're remaking it, you know. Richard Curtis is in charge. Hugh Grant's playing the killer. It's going to be called MENTALLY CHALLENGED. | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 217.20.16.180 |
"She didn't realise it was raining.... BLOOD!" | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.142.147.0 |
You're sure it's not going to be called MENTAL...ACTUALLY ? Or FOUR SCALPS AND A PHOTOGRAPHER Or (I'll stop there) | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 86.142.147.0 |
MY BIG FAT NEW YORK MURDER SPREE | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.202.102 |
Knotting Chill. Watch Hugh Grant create subversive art inspired by William Blake by binding together lengths of human intestine. Foppishly. And with a debilitating stutter, which in the States would have been charming, but in England led to torment and incipient vengefulness |