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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 05:50 pm:   

I'm a big (non-technical) fan of Classical Music. I've got opinions to give, if any interest in this subject here becomes apparent.

Meanwhile just a few of my favouites:

Anton Webern, Goldfrapp, Brahms, Mahler, Sixties Pop, Penderecki, Ligeti, Schubert, Thomas Ades, Havergal Brian, Sorabji, Beethoven's chamber music, Eugene Goussens, Mozart's 'Requiem' and 'String Quintets', John Cage's 4' 33", Glass's 'Akhnaten', Wagner's 'Parsifal' ETC.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:03 pm:   

Funny how nobody ever mentions Liszt in their favourites list. Seriously underrated.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.149.134.59
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:05 pm:   

For the John Cage you really need the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. The CBSO couldn't get to grips with it.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:07 pm:   

I feel Liszt is seriously over-rated. I can only stomach some of his longer piano pieces about Pelerinage, Francis of Asisis etc. But his show-off music does nothing for me, generally. You couldn't have picked, Gary, more of an over-rated composer, in my opinion. Did you do it on purpose?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:27 pm:   

Nah. Ever heard the Faust symphony, the B-minor piano sonata, the Dante symphony, the late religious work, the stuff for organ, etc? His show-off music - tarnscriptions and the like - is what it is and was never intended to be any more. But some of his virtuosic stuff predates similar stuff by Debussy by many decades. The transcendental etudes are remarkable.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:29 pm:   

Me, I think much of Mozart is formulaic and dull. But when he was great, he was GREAT.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:31 pm:   

As a work of art, the 'Jupiter' symphony is arguably the closest thing to perfection I've ever chanced upon.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:35 pm:   

>>>John Cage's 4' 33

Hmm. As someone once said, you need a good timekeeper to know when to applaud.

Or as someone else once said, "I look forward to future Cage works being of considerable length."
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:35 pm:   

Or as Sir Thomas Beecham said of Stockhausen (I think): "I've never heard any. But I believe I once stepped in some."
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John_l_probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 90.203.130.201
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:37 pm:   

Some of my favourites:

Beethoven (esp piano sonatas & 7th symphony), Bach (anything), Berlioz (Symphonie Fantastique), Mussorgsky(Night on the Bare Mountain), Rimsky-Korsakov, Ravel, Handel, Bartok, Schubert, Gabriel Pierne.

And modern composers - mainly those who have worked in film:

Jerry Goldsmith, Michael J Lewis, Richard Band, Christopher Young, Henry Mancini, Basil Poledouris, Bruno Nicolai, John Gale, Pino Donaggio, James Bernard, Douglas Gamley, Nathan Barr, Les Baxter, Patrick Doyle, Don Davis, John Barry, Joby Talbot, Ronald Stein, John Cameron, Miklos Rozsa, David Whitaker, Bernard Herrman, Harry Robinson & loads of others
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.226.149
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 06:56 pm:   

For my final music theory exam I had to sing Mozart's "S'altro che lacrime". I have just learned to play the melody on my guitar and am presently trying to find the chords that go with it, which is not as difficult as it sounds. I'll never be a good sight reader (for that you have to start out at age 12 or thereabouts), but theory definitely gave me a fresh perspective. It STILL doesn't explain why one likes or dislikes any given piece, though.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:02 pm:   

I can sight-read okay, Hubert, and started playing piano at 19. I'm otherwise pretty average, but I enjoy sight-reading.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:03 pm:   

Ever heard the Faust symphony, the B-minor piano sonata, the Dante symphony, the late religious work, the stuff for organ, etc? His show-off music - tarnscriptions and the like

Yes, all of it. Actually, the piano sonata is a great work.

Me, I think much of Mozart is formulaic and dull. But when he was great, he was GREAT.

I agree with that. That's why I mentioned the Requiem and the String Quintets.

Or as Sir Thomas Beecham said of Stockhausen (I think): "I've never heard any. But I believe I once stepped in some."

There is a lot of stuff by Stockhausen you may like, eg stimmung, Gruppen.

I can't get enough of Anton Webern. I have to lisen to him cosntantly. It's a sort of addiction.

I feel all in all, the greatest composer is Schubert: eg:
String Quintet
Der Winterreise
Octet
Piano Trios d898 and d928
String Quartets d804 and d887
All his piano sonatas
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:06 pm:   

Sorry that was d928, not d926
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:08 pm:   

Sorry, I actually got the number right! I don't know why I was correcting myself.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:12 pm:   

What stuff by Debussy is 'virtuosic', in the same sense as Liszt's is, btw?
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.226.149
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:13 pm:   

Singing or playing with others does have an exhilarating effect. Two or three hours of solid practice and I'm positively dizzy, sometimes in a very exuberant way. I couldn't live without it.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:15 pm:   

>>>What stuff by Debussy is 'virtuosic', in the same sense as Liszt's is, btw?

Des, I was really referring to that 'impressionism' created by swirling piano runs and unorthodox chords. Some striking similarities between Liszt and Debussy.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:17 pm:   

Schubert makes me feel strange. His music is insidious.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:18 pm:   

Interesting attempt at comparison between Debussy and Liszt. Thanks. I intend to do a review of Liszt - based on this exchange - and report back.

Debussy's Pellleas & Melisande, anyone?
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Chris_morris (Chris_morris)
Username: Chris_morris

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 12.165.240.116
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:20 pm:   

Bach, Bartok (particularly the str quts), Beethoven (again, str quts), Berg, Brahms, Cage (although I can live without 4'33"), Feldman, Glass, Gorecki, Ligeti, Reich, Schoenberg, Schubert (particularly Der Winterreise), Shostakovich, Sibelius, Stravinsky, Wagner (some, anyway), Webern, and Xenakis.

... and Liszt! (Actually, I can't say one way or the other about Liszt; I've only heard one or two works, neither of which moved me too much. But I remain open-minded.)

I've dabbled in classical music, particularly 20th Century classical music, for much of my adult life, but in the past couple of years, I've begun to explore the category a bit more thoroughly. I know I have a great deal more to discover, but I list the artists above because they have at least one work that I enjoy a lot.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:24 pm:   

Chris -- Ligeti's Piano Concerto, Cello Concerto and Violin Concerto on one CD is a wonderful thing.
His String Quartets, too.

Of course, he had some music in 2001: A Space Odyssey.
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Niki Flynn (Niki)
Username: Niki

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.32.69.29
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 07:34 pm:   

**diligently takes notes**

Liszt is certainly in my repertoire, though I admit I'm a newbie and only just building my library. Beethoven's 7th has to be my favourite piece of all time. It's also the alarm clock tone on my mobile, though it rarely actually wakes me; I just keep hearing it in my dreams. My irritated bedmate usually nudges me and growls that he can only take so much of that 20-second looping snippet.

The largos from Vivaldi's 392nd, 393rd and 394th concertos also feature in my constant-play list. (I can't get enough of the melancholy stuff.)
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.226.149
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:01 pm:   

"Schubert makes me feel strange. His music is insidious."

I'm not really familiar with this one and you've made me curious. How so, insidious?
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.143.25
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:07 pm:   

'Akhnaten' has some wonderfully stirring moments; I also love some of, but dislike other bits of Einstein on the Beach, but as it was a stage piece it's hard to guess the entire effect simply from listening to the music. I love a lot of Glass's work anyhow...
Yep, I'd go along with most of the stuff listed above - Gorecki, Reich, Adams (I love Shaker Loops & Grand Pianola Music), Bartok's String Quartets, Messiaen, Shostakovich, a bit of Varese, Sibelius, Stravinsky...
Hate these list things 'cos as soon as they're writ and posted, I think of loads more! There's nothing in anyone's posts above that I dislike, although I must admit an ignorance of Liszt's work, due in part to an over enthusiastic music teacher at school who appeared to like nothing else.
Debussy is pretty swirly and 'far out', but lovely stuff - Xenakis is too noisy for my neighbours! And I find Mahler, specially his 2nd, to be wonderfully stirring stuff. Ligeti's music I discovered when I saw 2001 on its original release; the same with Penderecki on first viewing THE SHINING.
Oh, and Carl Neilsen too... Oh, and loads more!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:21 pm:   

Einstein on the Beach

seriously stuff to send you mad. :-)

I saw 'Akhnaten' live when it was first preformed in London (1982?). An experience I've never forgotten.

And the 'Dracula' String Quartet by Glass is also great.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:28 pm:   

Hubert, I'm thinking, for example, of one of his late piano sonatas. It starts with a single octave on G, and then slips into melody before a sudden recurrence of the octave. Then it moves towards a very strange passage before rising infectiously to a kind of skip-like dance: it's the whole in context that creeps me out.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.143.25
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:31 pm:   

Yep, DRACULA is great - we saw that performed at the Festival Hall a few years back; they projected the film onto a huge muslin screen and we could just see Glass and his musicians behind, playing away. I think Philip Glass is the musician I've seen live more than any other, although I've not been able to see any of his three operas on stage. The only disappointing thing I saw was his version of Lessing's THE MAKING OF THE REPRESENTATIVE FOR PLANET 8 at English National Opera, which had lovely music but was otherwise boring, and the best was THE FALL OF THE HOUSE OF USHER, at the Union Chapel in north London.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:32 pm:   

As for Liszt: Bartok and Debussy and Ravel all cite him as a major influence, I believe. Liszt's purpose in later life was to "hurl a lance into the future" - his atonal pieces are decades ahead of their time.

Liszt also pioneered programme music, invented the symphonic tone poem as well as the technique known as transformation of theme. Wagner's 'liet motif' can be seen in early Liszt works such as 'Hamlet' (one of Wagner's favourites).

As I say, underrated. Or rather, unstudied. Few people get beyond the crowd-pleasing stuff. Snobbery at work, I guess - as if the frothy stuff dilute the heady brew.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:38 pm:   

As I say, underrated.

Over-rated.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:40 pm:   

Underpants.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:58 pm:   

Und Erpants, Finnish composer, follower of Per Norgard and Tescownbrand (see Erpants' 'Smilemime' symphony)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:09 pm:   

There's nothing in anyone's posts above that I dislike, although I must admit an ignorance of Liszt's work, due in part to an over enthusiastic music teacher at school who appeared to like nothing else.

Perhaps that shows he is the favourite of technical music specialists or academics. I don't think Liszt is often the people's choice, people who simply listen to music.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.226.149
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:36 pm:   

Gary, sounds interesting, I'd like to hear it.

So much music, so little time . . .
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:59 pm:   

>>>Perhaps that shows he is the favourite of technical music specialists or academics. I don't think Liszt is often the people's choice, people who simply listen to music.

That's cos everyone thinks he just wrote Liebstraum No. 3 and the 2nd Hungarian Rhapsody.

This is what I mean by under-rated: few get to give him a chance.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:21 pm:   

Where is his Brahms 4th, Schubert Octet, Mozart requiem, Mahler 8th, Beethoven Hammerklavier, Vaughan Williams Pastoral...??

Much of a muchness, wishy washy - but as I say I will give him a fair review and I may come round to your way of thnking, Gary.
des
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:25 pm:   

B-minor piano sonata. Faust symphony (particularly the incredible final movement).
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:27 pm:   

Des, revisit the Dante symphony, too, and tell me that the transition between the Purgatory movement and the Magnificat doesn't move you to tears.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:31 pm:   

Faust is wonderful in the sense that Mephistopheles cannot create, can only lampoon: so Liszt has the third movement mangle all the fine themes from the first two. Inspired stuff.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:33 pm:   

I will, Gary. I will have to collate the music, so may be a while. I listened to The Faust recently, in fact. I already love the B Minor Piano Sonata. And quite enjoy his transcriptions for a new angle on other composers' works.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:36 pm:   

His transcriptions are fine, particularly the Wagner stuff. I suspect you were referring earlier to the Fantasties, which are just flash fun.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:05 am:   

And, in the meantime, I will say I enjoy Liszt's work far more than I do Tchaikovsky's and Mendlessohn's!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:15 am:   

If anone likes Liszt, they may like the four symphonies of Franz Schmidt even better! - and, particularly, his The Book with Seven Seals. a massive oratorio.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.226.149
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:24 am:   

"B-minor piano sonata". This is the piece you were talking about, right? It does have that calm beginning with the G octaves.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.148.103.184
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:26 am:   

'Mephistopheles cannot create, can only lampoon'
Sounds like the present day in a nutshell.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:27 am:   

Are you referring to Gary's comments on Schubert, Hubert? Or Liszt?
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.226.149
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:44 am:   

I was referring to his comments on Liszt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j54ElhwXPys
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:48 am:   

Gary: "Schubert makes me feel strange. His music is insidious."

Hubert: I'm not really familiar with this one and you've made me curious. How so, insidious?

Gary: Hubert, I'm thinking, for example, of one of his late piano sonatas. It starts with a single octave on G, and then slips into melody before a sudden recurrence of the octave. Then it moves towards a very strange passage before rising infectiously to a kind of skip-like dance: it's the whole in context that creeps me out.

========
Sorry I'm confused.
Thanks for the link, anyway.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.226.149
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:55 am:   

Des, you're right, Gary was talking about Schubert! My mistake. Odd that I should find a Liszt piece which more or less fits his description.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.215
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:55 am:   

No, it's Schubert's B flat major sonata D960, the third movement.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:57 am:   

I'm listeni ng to that link, Hubert. It's brilliant!!!!!

Gary, I LOVE Schubert's last 3 piano sonatas, but all the piano sonatas are wonderful.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 11:17 am:   

For what it's worth, I give below a definition of classical music I tried to formulate some years ago. Any other definitions, anyone?

==============
An inchoate area (defaulting towards an aspirationally cultural & predominantly exact art form) within the universal, uncompartmentalised, wholly accessible language of sound commonly known as music: encouraging spirituality and/or various permutations of all human emotions -- centring on and radiating from the serious deployment of an ostensibly organised pattern of acoustic sounds as produced by orchestral instruments and voices (performed normally by established or qualified interpreters/musicians, from one to very many). The question of taste and the unknowable relativities of disharmony and harmony are no part of this description, because such affective considerations differ from individual to individual. I shall tailgate any preconceptions...
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.198
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   

>>>I'm listeni ng to that link, Hubert. It's brilliant!!!!!

You mean that over-rated Liszt?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.198
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:22 pm:   

Hubert, sorry, the fourth movement!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 12:51 pm:   

well, I did say I already like the B Minor sonata, Gary. A famous composer must have at least some things going for him. :-)
And I used the word 'brilliant' advisedly.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.229
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:37 pm:   

You and your God's Eye View.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:42 pm:   

No, only my humble opinion.
Wot forums R4.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.230
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:52 pm:   

Right, that's it. Outside. A fight.

"BRAHMS AND LISZT

Two authors came to blows today when an argument about the merits of the Hungarian composer Franz Liszt grew out of hand. The elder of the two assailant, a Mr Des Lewis of somewhere down south, came off the worst: two busted eardrums form a glancing blow issued by Mr Gary Fry from somewhere up north. Unfortunately, Mr Fry also sustained serious injuries, after having his hands trodden upon. Neither will enjoy music the same way again, although Mr Lewis said that Stockhausen is more listenable now. The court case will follow."
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:58 pm:   

I'm twice your age, Mr Fry, young whipper-snapper. Of course, I'm only half my own intelligence.

On Franz Liszt: "It's plain that in his day he must have been a musician of enormous importance. By contrast, his music offers surprisingly little of interest. I find it vague, incoherent and barely listenable."
Morton Gould Composer, conductor, president of ASCAP.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:06 pm:   

Actually that was a quote from Philip Glass, not Morton Gould. Sorry.
But it does give it even more credibility. :-)

First punch connected by the Fry Southpaw.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:10 pm:   

Ransom Wilson Flutist, conductor, called Mozart a 'sissy' and said that Chopin wore a skirt.

More 'over-rated' and 'under-rated' composers described here:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE6DE153DF931A15750C0A96194826 0
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:11 pm:   

Philip Glass - the composer of the music to SECRET WINDOW. Riiiiight.

[Punch ducked.]
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:14 pm:   

Philip Glass has been praised (not only by me) on this forum. His opinion is priceless.

Did you see the link with which I preceded your last post? It's wonderful.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:15 pm:   

>>>Overrated: Liszt.Even though there are extremely beautiful passages in his oeuvre, for my taste too much of his music is bravura rhetoric without saying anything particularly new or special.

Funny how nobody ever gives specific examples to back up their claims. That's cos nobody's ever bothered to look beyond the fancy stuff. Lazy cliches. Like saying all of Lovecarft is overwritten. Or The Beatles were at their best when McCartney and Lennon wrote together. Sound-bites. Piffle!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:16 pm:   

Morton Gould considered Sibelius both over-rated and under-rated !!!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:18 pm:   

Not exactly an exact science, this overrated/underrated business, is it?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:22 pm:   

I hadn't yet seen that second 'over-rated' vote for Liszt. I agree with that one more than the Glass one.

But two votes for 'over-rated' and none for 'under-rated' ... Lewis punch connects but he falls over backward becuase of bad ricochet recompense common in old people.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:23 pm:   

Fry eschews Queensbury Rules and kicks Des in the bollocks.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:27 pm:   

Mr Fry, get back to QI.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:29 pm:   

Fry dragged off by the event's sponsors and given own TV show.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:31 pm:   

Fry uses TV show to issue subliminal message - "Liszt is great" - to 10 million viewers. Public buy all his CDs and the B-minor sonata enters the hit parade at number 1. Fry retires, knowing his work is complete.

Des sits in squalor, stupefied.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:31 pm:   

...with only Philip Glass film scores to salve his tender soul.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:33 pm:   

Mishima
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:37 pm:   

All serious discussions here must end in silliness. It's kind of a tradition.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:39 pm:   

This just sums it all up:

"I hovered at the local library's Classical Music CD section. Found a few CDs of Liszt's Complete Piano works by Leslie Howard. I grabbed a few of them which I have not listened before (not any transcriptions). I was blown away by Liszt's works. I realized that he is totally underrated. He has composed so much beautiful music which are not in the standard classical repertoire.

In a music forum, I read a thread on why Liszt's works are not as famous as Chopin's . One gentleman has answered for the question that Liszt knows only technique and nothing on producing beautiful tone. How naļve!?

Before listening to this, I was only listening to his Hungarian Rhapsodies, Etudes and Sonata. I was so ignorant. He has composed a large number of original works apart from the transcriptions for which most people know him.

Howard has done an amazing job in all the works. Have anyone listened to this huge project of Leslie Howard which spanned for more than a decade?"

-- some mush no less unreliable than any other mush
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:39 pm:   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiKKuM9rkeQ
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Chris_morris (Chris_morris)
Username: Chris_morris

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 12.165.240.116
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:42 pm:   

I'm not trying to change the subject but: Wasn't all of Lovecraft overwritten?

I don't mean to imply that his work has no merit. I enjoy many of his stories, but there are none I've read that I'd call succinct. I'm curious: what do you think are his Gordon Lish stories?

Additionally, I listened to a couple of Liszt piano pieces last night. My verdict: not bad, but not my cup of tea, I think.

As for Glass, I realize he's a polarizing figure whose music (or any repetitive music, for that matter) many people can't stand, but I like him anyway. I wonder if anyone who doesn't like him can name a living composer they prefer instead. Mr Fry, any candidates?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:44 pm:   

Des: knock-out blow?

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2192/essays4.html
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:44 pm:   

>>>Additionally, I listened to a couple of Liszt piano pieces last night

Er, which?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:45 pm:   

>>>Wasn't all of Lovecraft overwritten?

Not in the way that people claim. His later work is quite restrained.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:47 pm:   

I don't know anything about Philip Glass, btw.
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Chris_morris (Chris_morris)
Username: Chris_morris

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 12.165.240.116
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:49 pm:   

* 12 Transcendental studies: La campanella
* Annees de pelerinage: Troisieme annee, Italie: Les Jeux d'eau a la villa d'Este

both performed by Andre Watts

(These two pieces appear on a compilation CD of classical piano works my wife added to our CD library a year or so ago. I'd offer more information, but that's all that's listed on the CD box.)
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Chris_morris (Chris_morris)
Username: Chris_morris

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 12.165.240.116
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:50 pm:   

>> Not in the way that people claim. His later work is quite restrained.

Restrained compared to writers who don't tend to overwrite or restrained compared to his own earlier writing?

Can you give me an example or two?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:51 pm:   

Well, I intended to leave Philip Glass's CLOSING from 'Mishima' to represent my dignified retreat. Brendel is much better playing Schubert. And I shall now immerse myself in d959.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:51 pm:   

>>.12 Transcendental studies: La campanella

Now you see, La Campanella has nothing to do with the 12 T. Etudes.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:52 pm:   

"La Campanella ("The Handbell" or "The Little Bell") is a piano etude, also known as a study piece, written by virtuoso pianist and composer Franz Liszt as part of a series of six Grandes Etudes de Paganini ("Grand Paganini Etudes")"
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:52 pm:   

And I'm off home.
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Chris_morris (Chris_morris)
Username: Chris_morris

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 12.165.240.116
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:53 pm:   

>> Now you see, La Campanella has nothing to do with the 12 T. Etudes.

For all I know, it was written by Joseph Goebbels. I'm just relaying what was on the box.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:53 pm:   

La Campanella is exactly the kind of flash writing that is remembered, while his greater work is forgotten. Sigh. Anyway, I've made my point.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:54 pm:   

>>>For all I know, it was written by Joseph Goebbels. I'm just relaying what was on the box.

Then the box cares as little about his the facts as so many others. Inaccuracy is an enemy is judgement.
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Chris_morris (Chris_morris)
Username: Chris_morris

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 12.165.240.116
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:56 pm:   

Yeah, you're right. I'll look up more when I have time -- it was the only Liszt I had lying around the house. Still, if the music is accurately Liszt's, all I can say is: meh.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 05:58 pm:   

>>>These two pieces appear on a compilation CD of classical piano works my wife added to our CD library a year or so ago

This is exactly the problem in a lived example: the only Liszt people generally get access to is the crowd-pleasing stuff. It's unrepresentative.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 06:01 pm:   

If it's crowd-pleasing, it should please most listeners.

Sorry, I don't mean you're a crowd, Chris. :-)

I'll get my coat to the sound of Glass: Again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiKKuM9rkeQ
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 06:04 pm:   

OK, then let's forget the Hammerklavier and listen only to the Moonlight sonata.

Ooh, time to flee.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 06:07 pm:   

'Hammerklavier' is seriously one of the truly great pieces of music. Have you noticed that it draws the Elder Gods closer?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.186.238
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 07:24 pm:   

Oh yes. Absolutely incredible.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.143.25
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 08:50 pm:   

Philip Glass - the composer of the music to SECRET WINDOW. Riiiiight

Weeeeell, he has provided music to some very suspect films, but it's not usually the music that's supect about 'em. And they used some Liszt in an advert for floor cleaning liquid a few years back, although Liszt wasn't aware of this, I suspect...
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.143.186.238
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 09:44 pm:   

Actually, he was. It came from his 'Shake 'n' Vac' suite, opus 135.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.143.25
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 11:16 pm:   

"...and put the freshness back"!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:14 am:   

This study:
http://www.common-place.org/vol-08/no-03/tales/
deals with the great composer William Henry Fry who composed the Santa Claus symphony.

It also compares him with Liszt:

Liszt, like so many other idealistic composers, saw himself as a musical prophet whose role was to bring great art to the masses. Unsurprisingly, Liszt's symphonic music was never popular. Fry, on the other hand, based his works on scenes from everyday life and used the orchestra to transform them into something sublime. And he did not need complex musical theories or procedures to achieve this goal.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.161.241.208
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 05:44 pm:   

Liszt - Faust Symphony (final chorus):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U_g0UnWjJU
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Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin)
Username: Richard_gavin

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 65.110.174.71
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 11:48 pm:   

Good topic, Des.

Though I am far from an authority on the subject of classical music, I know what I like:

Mussorgsky, Berlioz, Beethoven, some Liszt, Mozart's "Requiem", Stockhausen, Crumb, Anthiel, Penderecki, Bartok, Dvorak, Lutoslawski, Kilar, Varese, Wagner, Scriabin, Holst, Bach (pipe organ compositions), Schubert, Faure's "Requiem", and of course Ligeti.

Best,
Richard
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 69.236.164.76
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 03:58 am:   

I'm a big classical fan; my wife and I just stumbled across a wonderful pianist name of Marc Hamelin, from Canada. There's a DVD of one of his concerts in Germany in 2007; wonderful things, a beautiful tender touch with Debussy, one of my favorites!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 09:31 am:   

Richard Gavin: Mussorgsky, Berlioz, Beethoven, some Liszt, Mozart's "Requiem", Stockhausen, Crumb, Anthiel, Penderecki, Bartok, Dvorak, Lutoslawski, Kilar, Varese, Wagner, Scriabin, Holst, Bach (pipe organ compositions), Schubert, Faure's "Requiem", and of course Ligeti.

Only "some Liszt"? :-)

Interesting choices there, Richard. I sort of discovered Scriabin before the BBC discovered him. Poem of Ecstasy - his piano sonatas - etc - he was into colours and black magic - but I'm not an intentionalist and I only liszten to his music.

The only name I've not heard of there is Kilar.

Have you heard Penderecki's THRENODY FOR THE VICTIMS OF HIROSHIMA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwVNoeEIcKc

Massive Horror music.
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Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin)
Username: Richard_gavin

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 65.92.55.134
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 09:16 pm:   

Hi, Des,

Penderecki's "Threnody..." is very potent indeed.

I'm not sure if purists would class Wojciech Kilar as "classical" or not, but he is the composer of some magnificent and brooding film scores, most notably BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA and THE NINTH GATE.

Best,
Richard
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Chris_morris (Chris_morris)
Username: Chris_morris

Registered: 04-2008
Posted From: 12.165.240.116
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 09:23 pm:   

Kilar also has some non-film pieces as well, including orchestral works, chamber works, and works for solo instruments. (All that I've heard have been excellent.)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 02:09 pm:   

Continued from 'Lost District' thread;
From Wikipedia:

The history of the symphonic poem can be traced back to the dramatic overtures of Ludwig van Beethoven such as those for Egmont and Coriolanus. By the early- to mid-19th century, composers were writing 'concert overtures', theatrical, colorful and evocative orchestral movements created for performance independent of any opera or theater-piece. For examples, among the symphonic poems created before Liszt were the Der Beherrscher der Geister ("The Ruler of the Spirits", 1811), by Carl Maria von Weber and the Hebrides Overture (also known as Fingal's Cave, 1830) by Felix Mendelssohn.

In 1830 Hector Berlioz completed his Symphonie Fantastique. Unlike earlier orchestral character pieces, the Symphonie Fantastique follows a complete and specific narrative, which is about an artist's unrequited and obsessive love for a woman, his subsequent attempt at suicide, and finally his grotesque visions while in an opium-induced trance. The symphony, a semi-autobiographical depiction of Berlioz himself, ignited controversy and sensation,[citation needed] and set off many a heated philosophical debate about program music versus absolute music.[citation needed]

One composer who reacted enthusiastically to the Fantastique was Franz Liszt. Liszt and his colleagues believed that progress would involve merging all forms of art, a grand synthesis of music, literature, drama and painting. Liszt wrote thirteen symphonic poems on themes from literature, history, and visual art, and he is usually credited with inventing the genre of the modern symphonic poem.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 02:13 pm:   

From above, I think I've found one further reason why I don't usuall enjoy Liszt - that he often wrote programme music (tone poems etc). I prefer absolute music.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 02:23 pm:   

All part and parcel of the Romantic tradition. Schumann was similar.

Brahms the traditionalist adhered more rigidly to classical forms. Even Chopin the poet rarely wrote anything other than absolute music.

Beethoven's 6th Symphony is programmatic.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 02:28 pm:   

I TRY to avoid any programme connections when listening to music (a bit like the intentional fallacy, I suppose). And these thoughts above have made me realise this even more. I love Chopin and Brahms. And I love Beethoven (except for the Pastoral Symphony). There is no right or wrong, of course. I would hate to be called prescriptive about art. I am ever, I hope, descriptive.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 03:30 pm:   

I like both.

Is it because you don't like meaning to be imposed upon you? Are you similarly drawn to non-didactic fiction?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 03:34 pm:   

I like both, if I can manage to "avoid any programme connections".
Yes, i'm drawn to Horror literature when it is non-didactic. Ligotti, Campbell, Aickman, Elizabeth Bowen...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 03:35 pm:   

I think Lane's works tend to seem didactic, but I still love them.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 04:23 pm:   

Do you like George Bernard Shaw?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 04:32 pm:   

Not much.

I'm not a great fan of theatrical drama like Shakespeare and Shaw. More interested in hybrid dramas like Big Brother. I only like opera if it's more like absolute music, such as 'Akhnaten' by Philip Glass, 'Pelleas and Melisande' by Debussy, 'Parsifal' by Wagner...

I wonder if anyone has any views on programme versus absolute music?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 05:01 pm:   

One of music's unique aspects is its abstract relationship with experience. The referents of fiction and painting are more concrete in the sense that they tend to depict tangible experiential events. Whereas music evokes more ineffable things like mood, emotion, etc. Which is not to say that fiction and painting don't evoke these things, too, but they tend to do so by making an appeal - by dramatic and visual necessity - to the lived experiences that engender them. Music, perhaps (and specifically in its unprogrammatic sense), bypasses these latter, and cuts directly to the other stuff: disembodied experience, maybe.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 05:04 pm:   

In other words, a 'programme' may partially rob music of this unique aspect: make its listener pin down those evoked qualities that might best remain free.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 05:08 pm:   

One more thing: it would be hard to imagine a debate about the meaning of, say, Beethoven's Fifth symphony possessing the same multiple certainties as that on the other thread about David Lynch.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 07:39 pm:   

Another non-sequitor: how to pass exams GBS-style!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/realmedia/bernardshawg/bernardshawg 3.ram
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 09:03 pm:   

In other words, a 'programme' may partially rob music of this unique aspect: make its listener pin down those evoked qualities that might best remain free.

One more thing: it would be hard to imagine a debate about the meaning of, say, Beethoven's Fifth symphony possessing the same multiple certainties as that on the other thread about David Lynch.

================

I'm going to let those two posts percolate overnight. But that doesn't stop anyone else commenting on this thread after they've watched Dr Who (as I have just done).
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 09:50 am:   

I think that Art is a beautiful in that it can have as many rules as you like (none or many). For me - as a non-technical fan of music - the ultimate Art is absolute music. It's like being born and not knowing what to expect from life - in contrast to the equivalent of having been born, and waking up each morning, with life ceasing gradually to have less and less novelty and houseing just used images.
Hence, to quote Gary, "'programme' music may partially rob music of this unique aspect."

This mindset of absolute music can be taken (at least to some extent) towards other forms of Art (including literature) by the embracing of 'description' (catholicity and eclecticism) rather than 'prescription' (didacticism and intentionality).

I love interpreting Lynch in freefall.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:20 pm:   

Yes, but even so, there's a world of difference between, say, Beethoven's 'Pathetique' and Opus 28, the so-called 'Pastoral' sonata.

It's like being born into perpetual duress as against being born in a country community. (A crap metaphor, but it's the only one my Sunday morning brain can spin.)

In other words, even Absolute music has a finite number of affordances. Absolute freedom makes no sense.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:23 pm:   

To wit, we're 'thrown' into art the same way we're thrown into life. Elements procede us, and must be responded to in a finite number of way according to our embodied nature. Music plays upon our bodies the way experience does, and a smack across the face regularly cannot be easily interpreted as a caress. Similarly, a minor-key sonata has a different effect from one in the major key. Absolute music is, in that sense, implicitly programmatic. So there.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:27 pm:   

In other words, to allude to Joel, Beethoven can't teach me how to make lemon meringue pie.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:30 pm:   

Absolute music is, in that sense, implicitly programmatic.

It's all relative and, fortunately, nothing is perfect.
Art is apiration, not achievement.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:34 pm:   

The Verve's 'Bittersweet Symphony' has a hint of the lemon meringue about it, no?

(I told you: all debates must end with silliness. It's a rule around here.)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:35 pm:   

aspiration...
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:37 pm:   

Can we talk about football now?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:43 pm:   

The trouble about mixing football and classical music, people generally end up talking about the Three Tenors.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:48 pm:   

I've seen some football movements that are as beautiful as a Mozart movement.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 01:58 pm:   

And I've heard some miszt goals.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.143.25
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 06:46 pm:   

I've seen some football movements that are as beautiful as a Mozart movement.

...and I've seen too many that look like Milli Vanilli miming on Top of the Pops.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.157.153.231
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:49 am:   

I bought Tristan a footy film last week - Goal! it was called. I don't like footy but this film was wonderful, absolutely wonderful.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 03:16 pm:   

They played Classical Music on Big Brother last night. While the housemates were cleaning. Choices a bit too popular for my taste.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 03:27 pm:   

Isn't that a bit like going to McDonald's and saying the burgers are a bit tasteless?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 03:33 pm:   

Gary Fry: It came from his 'Shake 'n' Vac' suite, opus 135.

You would have thought they would at least have played that as it was background for housework.

Or Sir Malcolm Arnold's Grand Concerto for Hoovers (which actually exists)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 03:52 pm:   

That Arnold concerto for hoovers and floor polisher and orchestra is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS2-_1kWq-U

Actually Arnold wrote nine splendid symphonies (as well as the famous film music).
The symphonies are all wonderful. Anyone else heard them? I wrote a personal impression of all of them at the end of the page here:
http://www.geocities.com/bfitzworth/
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:27 pm:   

I listened to it, but it sucks.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:28 pm:   

yes, but the symphonies?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:29 pm:   

vacuums suck!
I see.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 05:06 pm:   

Lemme find a link to the sound of a penny dropping.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 11:11 am:   

Have you heard Andrew Penny conducting? A great underrated conductor?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.229
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:48 pm:   

Over-rated, I think you'll find.
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.52.195
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:53 pm:   

Trivia corner...

Malcom Armold spent his last years living in my town Wymondham.

He was fond of a drink or two and could often be found waxing lyrical in the pubs...

gcw
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:58 pm:   

That's fascinating, gcw. I don't usually concern myself with composers' lives, but Arnold wrote some really lovely, jolly and poignant music (one of the great composers) - but apparently he was a nasty piece of work and a difficult person for others and for himself.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.195.236.131
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:15 pm:   

http://www.mogwaizidane.com/index1.html
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:19 pm:   

The Zidane music is nice but a bit 'new age' for my taste.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.216
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:31 pm:   

Interesting quote from George Bernard Shaw, Des:

Beethoven never heard of radioactivity nor of electrons dancing in vortices of
inconceivable energy; but pray can anyone explain the last movement of
his Hammerklavier Sonata, Opus 106, otherwise than as a musical picture
of these whirling electrons? His contemporaries said he was mad, partly
perhaps because the movement was so hard to play; but we, who can make a pianola play it to us over and over until it is as familiar as Pop
Goes the Weasel, know that it is sane and methodical. As such, it
must represent something; and as all Beethoven's serious compositions
represent some process within himself, some nerve storm or soul storm,
and the storm here is clearly one of physical movement, I should much
like to know what other storm than the atomic storm could have driven
him to this oddest of all those many expressions of cyclonic energy
which have given him the same distinction among musicians that Michael
Angelo has among draughtsmen.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.195.244.67
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:48 pm:   

New age? Is that the old new age with the hippies and the tulips or the new new age with the knives in the sky and the finger bullets?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:48 pm:   

One can freely image-make with any absolute music and that quote from GBS is fascinating. Thanks.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:53 pm:   

The new age like Brian Eno (my wife's cousin).
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.195.244.67
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:56 pm:   

You lie!

Ah, the old new age. That is passed, sir. Now it is football planets spinning in space and bones with brains for marrow.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.195.244.67
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:57 pm:   

Do you suppose pirates were so mad because they only had one eye and it messed up their hemispheres?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 04:43 pm:   

Maybe their ship has a liszt.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.216
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 04:46 pm:   

I'm going to clock you one in a minute, mate.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 05:00 pm:   

OK, bosun.

Have you seen the film Lisztomania:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisztomania
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.76.229
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 05:18 pm:   

No. But it looks dreadful.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 05:21 pm:   

I agree!

But this bit on the Wikipeda link struck me:

"The term "Lisztomania" was coined by the German romantic literary figure Heinrich Heine to describe the massive public response to Liszt's virtuosic piano performances. There were screaming women and concerts were often standing room only."
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Gcw (Gcw)
Username: Gcw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.52.195
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 07:50 pm:   

"..That's fascinating, gcw. I don't usually concern myself with composers' lives, but Arnold wrote some really lovely, jolly and poignant music (one of the great composers) - but apparently he was a nasty piece of work and a difficult person for others and for himself..."

I wasn't going to say it, but yeah, Des, he was a pain in the arse quite frankly.

He used to drink in my local and often had be chucked out for getting out of order after a few too many.

gcw
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 08:23 pm:   

I'm not surprised by that, gcw. But wonderful to hear first hand experience.

However, Sir Malcolm Arnold - as a composer, tuneful, heartfelt, non-experimental, sometimes experimental, sometimes light, sometimes Mahlerian, cinematic (big time), symphonic, chamber - is one of my all-time heroes. It makes me glad that I'm an exponent of the Intentional Fallacy in Art. :-)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 05:34 pm:   

Does anyone enjoy Early Music?

If you've not tried it before, please try Allegri's Miserere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZL3POaATn8&feature=related

as long as you promise not to give up until it's at least 3 minutes through, then you won't be able to let go.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 10:36 pm:   

Does the above linked music change your mood? If so in which direction?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 05:41 pm:   

Clockwork Virgin Mary

Anyone written a concerto for this device?
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.195.236.131
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 11:52 am:   

Yes...(albie consults his notes fervently) I believe Liszt wrote one.

HAhAhAHAhahohaoho.

That's right, isn't it?

Liszt, penis, clockwork virgin Mary.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 05:59 pm:   

The connection was Clockwork Orange.
Orange= communication company= Virgin.

(I don't think Picasso was into Orange)
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.148.96.124
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 06:18 pm:   

He should have been. It goes nice with blue, and grey.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.149.134.59
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 06:20 pm:   

Orange (ISP) = shit customer service = Virgin (trains)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 06:24 pm:   

Vergine, Verange, Verago, Verygo
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 09:53 am:   

What are your three favourite pieces of Classical Music? I'll give mine later.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 01:49 pm:   

Beethoven - 2nd movement, 7th symphony
Beethoven - Hammerklavier piano sonata
Liszt - B minor piano sonata

Honourable mention to Tchaikovsky - final movement, 6th symphony
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 02:26 pm:   

Beethoven's last quartet (Op. 135)
Bach, A Musical Offering
Debussy, Pelleas et Melisande
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.83.68
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 02:52 pm:   

Beethoven - 2nd movement, 7th symphony

Good call on that'un, Gary - lovely piece, that.

Gorecki's Third Symphony
Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time/Turangalila (can't decide between the two)
Neilsen - Symphony no. 5

It should be pointed out that, as ever with lists, there are a thousand more bubbling under the surface, and I already diasgree with my three choices!

Not that Des asked me for a list anyway, but that's never stopped me before.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 05:57 pm:   

I salute these choices so far:
Beethoven - Hammerklavier piano sonata (Gary F)
Debussy, Pelleas et Melisande (Ramsey)
Messiaen - Quartet for the End of Time (Mick C)

But did someone mention Tchaikovsky!!?!!!???

My three are:
Second movement of Brahms 'Serenade No 1'*
Last Act of 'Akhnaten' - Philip Glass
Most of 'Parsifal' by Wagner

*you can hear a tiny bit of it here by clicking on 'listen' fo track 2 (Scherzo: Allegro non troppo):
http://www.emusic.com/album/Peter-Ilyitch-Tchaikovsky-BRAHMS-Serenade-No-1-TCHAI KOVSKY-Serenade-for-MP3-Download/10871057.html
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 07:46 pm:   

I MENTIONED LISZT, TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 08:15 pm:   

Liszt's B Minor Piano Sonata is a worthy candidate for any BEST OF...
Sorry, only joking about Tchaikovsky. Personally can't stand his music (except perhaps his Piano Trio) but tastes do differ.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.24.122.40
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 08:23 pm:   

I'm a sucker for a good tune, Des.
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 69.236.164.76
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 08:00 pm:   

I'm drunk on classical music. It's practically all I listen to these days. I have too many favorites to list, but Bach's Cantatas often leap to mind.

I blog about music (and it's role in my existence) this week, in fact, at http://tbdeluxe.blogspot.com/
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 08:33 pm:   

I'm drunk on classical music, too.
I bet I'm more drunk on it than you. ;-)
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.3.248.217
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 09:15 pm:   

I'm Brahms and Liszt out of my head.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.3.248.217
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 09:17 pm:   

Funny that those two composers should come together in Cockney rhyming slang in a way they never could in person. Brahms hated Liszt's work.
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 69.236.164.76
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   

Des: I can down 9 shymphonies of Beethoven in the time it takesh you to down to Mossshart munuet (urp! hic!)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 11:15 pm:   

I can swallow Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum in one mouthful and still take a short nip of Nimrod, wihout a hic or burp.
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 69.236.164.76
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 01:09 am:   

Seriously, one of the good things about the Internet is that it's been real good for classical music. Web sites dedicated to it abound and a lot of music that you don't hear played elsewhere can be found. See this article by Alex Ross of The New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/22/071022fa_fact_ross
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 09:58 am:   

Interesting article. Thanks

"The anonymity of Internet browsing has made classical music more accessible to non-fanatics."

And to fanatics alike! (& music drunks). :-)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 11:50 am:   

I mentioned Sorabji a couple of posts ago. Has anyone heard his solo piano music based on M.R. James stories?
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 69.236.164.76
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 11:09 pm:   

No, but I'd love to!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 12:12 pm:   

Some Horror orientated music:

The Isle of the Dead - Rachmaninov
The Bells - Rachmaninov
Fall of the House of Usher - Debussy
Dracula String Quartet - Glass
The Masque of the Red Death - Caplet
Sorabji - M.R. James piano solos
The Curse of the Werewolf - Frankel
Wagner's Ring?
Rite of Spring?
Threnody for Hiroshima victims - Penderecki
Song of the Earth (Mahler)?
plus others I've forgotten?

Plus a lot of modern classical music that sounds effectively Horror music or designed for the Horror genre! (in a good way)
including Birtwistle, Thomas Ades, Ligeti, Schnittke.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   

You missed:

Mephisto Waltzes 1-3, Totentanz, and the Dante symphony by Frank List

Silly old Des.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 12:26 pm:   

Sorry I missed those from my little liszt.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 12:15 pm:   

Is anyone been / going to be watching the new season on the Proms on BBC4 TV - or listening to it on Radio 3?
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 85.158.137.195
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 02:54 pm:   

I caught some of Four Last Songs on the opening night, but that's all so far...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 03:01 pm:   

There was an interesting Folk Music Prom last night.

Strauss' "4 Last Songs" is my wife's favourite. And i enjoy it, too. Plaintive angst.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 03:03 pm:   

That's Richard Strauss, not Johann Strauss, of course! :-)
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 85.158.137.195
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 03:30 pm:   

Of course - the 'difficult' Strauss!
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 90.199.0.222
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 09:43 pm:   

The folk music was better than I was expecting, it not really being my thing. The Messian this evening was interesting - all brass percussion and woodwind, a bit like the orchestra James Bernard sometimes used for the Hammers
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 09:43 pm:   

Tonight's Prom, first half just shown live on TV from the Albert Hall: 'L'Ascension' and 'Et Exspecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum' both by Olivier Messiaen.
Cosmic!!!
Especially through my house-shaking sound-system. :-)
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 90.199.0.222
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 09:45 pm:   

Oh balls I spelt Messiaen wrong. Sorry.

I don't agree with the lady in the interval who has just said it's erotic
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 09:57 pm:   

I found it erotic.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.137.224
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 10:22 pm:   

Messiaen's the dog's bollocks (as I'm sure all classical fans would agree, although not necessarily in those words).
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.159.137.224
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 10:23 pm:   

\[Especially through my house-shaking sound-system. :-)}

That's the way to do it!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.148.96.124
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 - 07:46 am:   

He sounds quite jazzy having just dipped into itunes for a listen.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2008 - 09:33 am:   

I'd say Messiaen is more mystic than jazzy. But that's the beauty of music - you hear what you hear.

Weird Fiction and Classical Music - the only true Symbiosis.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 02:28 pm:   

Enjoyed Ramsey's Rant in latest Prism.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.168.57.173
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 03:15 pm:   

Yep, as did I - I know most, but not all, of the pieces he discusses there, and it made for an interesting read.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.22.236.90
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 01:59 pm:   

Prism? A magazine?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.232
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 02:41 pm:   

Prism is an organ of the British Fantasy Society (of which organisation Ramsey is President).

A news mag.
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Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 69.236.164.76
Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 10:27 pm:   

Ha. It so happens I'm writing about classical music this week at my blog "A Curious Man:" http://tbdeluxe.blogspot.com/
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.243
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 11:36 am:   

After finishing my Villa Desiree review yesterday evening, I ended a perfect day by going with my wife to a live performance of Dvorak's Stabat Mater (with organ) - near Clacton pier (where they've just erected a new helter skelter and further out at sea the first wind turbine!) - a performance given by the Clacton Choir together with professional soloists. I've loved this music for years (it lasts one and half hours in total) (although I rarely love Dvorak otherwise) and I was surprised to find, during an interval drink, that many in the audience had not heard it before but all were amazed how beautifully poignant it is. A mistake was made towards the end of one movement, so they repeated it from the beginning, but that was good - it was my favourite movement! A wonderful performance over all.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.161.170.11
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 12:45 pm:   

Excellent stuff - I don't know much Dvorak beyond the obvious - I've heard of Stabat Mater but never heard it.
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Stephenw (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.4.20.22
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 03:43 pm:   

Got into classical music (and jazz) laterally through the influence of Frank Zappa: Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Webern, Berg, Cage, Varese, Martinu, Janacek, Dvorak, Scriabin, Debussy, Chopin, Mussorgsky, Berlioz, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi are the favs.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.161.170.11
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 06:10 pm:   

Is that all?

The only one out of that lot I own nothing by is Scriabin. Know very little about him and his work.
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Stephenw (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.4.20.22
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 07:56 pm:   

Took me a while to hone my likes thanks mainly to the radio and Naxos. Stravinsky would top the lot with Bach a close second. I tend to like the discordant, ethereal or baroque stuff over the romantic or purely melodic (if that makes sense?). Scriabin was a quite adventurous Russian composer at the turn of the last century who was into religious mysticism and I suppose could be seen to bridge the gap between romanticism and modernism? I have the 1st-3rd symphonies, Le Poeme de l'extase, Promethee, le poeme du feu & some piano transciptions and they do it for me.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.20.31.211
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 08:03 pm:   

Yeah, Scriabin: damnably difficult to play, too.

>>>bridge the gap between romanticism and modernism

Know much late Liszt, Stephen? That description probably fits that period of his work best, I think.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.243
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 08:27 pm:   

Scriabin is a perennial favourite of mine. In fact the Lewis family (me and my then ten year old son who wrote the letter) in 1981 (?) discovered him for the BBC by having his Poem of Fire played on Classical Requests programme on a Sunday morning, where the announcer said Scriabin was rarely played and Poem of Fire itself never before on BBC. Can you believe that now!? But it's true. Unless my memory plays me false. But that certainly *is* my memory of it.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.20.31.211
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 08:56 pm:   

You mean I set you up with a Liszt line, Des, and you fail to knock it down? Tsk.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.243
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 09:06 pm:   

Funny how nobody ever mentions Liszt in their favourites list. Seriously underrated.
===============
Gary F said that in June 2008 on this very thread.
My response is unchanged.
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Stephenw (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.4.20.22
Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 10:03 pm:   

Looking back I can see you're a Liszt fan Gary but I'm only really familiar with his more famous piano works and find them a touch too brash for my tastes - more into my delicate Chopin or Debussy piano music. Will give his later stuff a go though.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.20.31.211
Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 08:35 am:   

Please do so. Judging Liszt by his more popular works is like judging America by George Bush.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.145.36.243
Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 09:25 am:   

And judging Classical Music by Liszt...
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.20.31.211
Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 10:57 am:   

. . . is like judging horror fiction by Lovecraft: not its finest practitioner yet inarguably powerful, opening doors to astonishing worlds.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.74
Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 12:48 pm:   

I'm very fond of the orchestral tone poems.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.20.31.211
Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 02:01 pm:   

Me, too, especially number 13, 'From The Cradle to the Grave'. Sinister.

Check out the Faust symphony too, Ramsey, if you haven't already.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 81.155.19.139
Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 11:13 pm:   

Gary Fry: It came from his 'Shake 'n' Vac' suite, opus 135.

You would have thought they would at least have played that as it was background for housework.

Or Sir Malcolm Arnold's Grand Concerto for Hoovers (which actually exists)

================
Well, did you see the Grand Grand Concerto by Sir Malcolm Arnold on tonight's Last Night at The Proms. David Attenborough was shot dead.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.179.199.19
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 12:15 am:   

We turned the programme on just as that piece was finishing, unfortunately, but watched the rest to the end.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.26.90.161
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 10:41 am:   

I started watching the Proms last night for the first time in years, but Auntie BBC had dumbed it down even more than its usual jingoistic, flag-waving silliness. I mean, Barry Manilow . . . Chris de Burgh . . . Clive Anderson . . .
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.179.199.19
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 11:22 am:   

Really? Saw Anderson and thought he wasn't a patch on Richard Baker, but I think the last night's been dumbed down for years. They need some Webern!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.179.199.19
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 11:54 am:   

...although 'classical music' is a lot more populist in some European countries than the UK - I know many folk who'd not dream of listening to such music, or attending a concert, unless it was the last night of the Proms.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.26.90.161
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 11:54 am:   

Chris de Burgh singing 'The Long and Winding Road'. Puke.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.179.199.19
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 01:08 pm:   

Nooooooooooo!
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 82.38.75.85
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 02:35 pm:   

>>Chris de Burgh singing 'The Long and Winding Road'. Puke.<<

Oh no, I'm glad I missed it. That must have been horrendous!

Only just seen this thread as it's resurfaced. It's so long I don't have time to read through it at the moment, but I have to say my particular faves are:

Anything by Stravinsky
Holst's Planet Suite

and that's about it really - I'm not a big classical music fan. Can't stand Beethoven or any of the "traditional" classical composers. I'm sure there must be some good, more unusual stuff out there too, but I just haven't heard it.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 81.155.19.139
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 07:20 pm:   

They need some Webern!
================

Hear Hear!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.26.90.161
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 07:42 pm:   

Can't stand Beethoven!?

How very dare you!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 217.43.29.197
Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 10:44 pm:   

I have just discovered this wonderful music:

http://www.last.fm/listen/user/megazanthus/recommended#pane=webRadioPlayer&stati on=%252Flisten%252Fuser%252Fmegazanthus%252Frecommended

By the "Romanian-French composer Horatiu Radulescu (Horažiu Rćdulescu) born in Bucharest on January 7 1942. He is best known for the spectral technique of composition which he has developed since the late 1960s..."
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 86.163.170.179
Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2010 - 11:31 pm:   

Un Sospiro by Liszt is quite beautiful really, I suppose. Accidentally listening to it at the moment.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.29.110.205
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2010 - 09:04 am:   

Hurrah!!!

Re-view his entire ouevre. :-)

The Ballade no 2 is very fine, too. Got a bit obsessed by it lately.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 81.153.251.53
Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 09:59 pm:   

I defy you to find this music and these paintings stunning:

http://www.ligotti.net/showthread.php?p=47907#post47907
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.182.163.130
Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 10:26 pm:   

Ligeti's music is wonderful. I was first made aware of it when I saw 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY, back in the late 'sixties, and it certainly works well with those paintings too, Des.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 02:00 am:   

That is quite beautiful, I love it!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.154.208
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 10:06 am:   

Overrated, Des. Seriously overrated. :-)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.17.252.126
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 10:42 am:   

That's the kind of gorgeous, emotional, just a little bit weird, modern classical music I adore. No wonder Kubrick was a fan. It's music that cries out for evocative imagery to go with it imo.

Must look out for a few Ligeti CDs. Can just imagine lying in bed listening to that in the dark... what dreams may come.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 81.153.251.53
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 10:47 am:   

There is a CD that contains both his Piano Concerto and Cello Concerto. Obligatory listening those two pieces.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.154.208
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 10:47 am:   

Who knows? :-)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 06-2008
Posted From: 81.153.251.53
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 10:48 am:   

BTW, I was lucky enough recently to attend a live performance of his Cello Sonata, as reported here:
http://weirdmonger.blog-city.com/london_sitar_ensemble_and_world_strings.htm
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 82.6.94.181
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 09:04 pm:   

I found this thread, long abandoned in the message board cellar...

Sibelius..violin concerto is a thing of aching beauty and his Lemminkainen Suite moves me almost to tears in places.

Vaughn Williams...Symphonies 3 and 5, my soul music, affects me so deeply I can't begin to describe it.

VW also write a harmonica concerto, specially for Larry Adler. it is immensley eerie and haunting. And fascinating for a Thursday evening jam nite blues harpist like me (The Middlesex Arms, South Ruislip, for anyone within easy reach, Ginger Baker's son turned up and performed the other week, I had to follow him which was intimiating to say the least).
Cheers
Terry
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.158.237.247
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 09:40 am:   

I noticed that a reference to Vaughan Williams Symphony No 3 was in disguise in your novella 'The Places Between', Terry.

Did anyone see that recent wonderful performance on TV by the Berlin Phil of Elgar's Cello Concerto with a beautiful cellist in a red dress conducted by Barenboim. Du Pre's famous performance in the 1960s (also conducted by Barenboim in the Sixties) came to mind...

That was in b & w, so Jacqueline's dress colour was unknown.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.93.28
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 10:24 am:   

This music is lovely.
And painting, God, it's so undervalued these days. 'Painting is dead' they say, but bugger me if it doesn't hit all the buttons whenever you see a good one. I was in this big modern gallery the other day and it was all installation-type stuff, you know, trees lying on the ground and things, and it really suddenly struck me how I just wanted a little room with pictures. I mean not that the big modern stuf never works, just that it often feels like a trivial thing blown up, as if the blowing up is doing all the work. I mean, it CAN work, but the laziness strikes you more than the piece. Sigh - it's not even the laziness but rather the sense of importance, that the size and space means it has all this expectation, that it's art with a capital A.
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.204
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 11:46 am:   

A couple of years go I went to a John Constable exhibition in the Smoke and was impressed, not so much by the finished articles but by his preliminary “rushes” for the final pictures. The energy, the imagination, impressionist in all but name! You could imagine Constable sweating the pictures onto the canvases in a fury of creativity.

And yes Des, VS does have a cameo ole in TPB. As I said before, I can barely find words for what 3 and 5 do to me.

Oh and are you going to send me something for "The Monster Book for Girls" Des and Tony (sorry, I don't know which Tony you actually are so if you have sent something, thanks, of not, then feel free)?
cheers
Terry
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.204
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 11:47 am:   

That's VW, not VS!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.158.237.247
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 11:47 am:   

Thanks, Tony. Music about painting, any ideas? Pictures from an Exhibition - Moussourgsky (sp.?)... The Three Screaming Popes - Turnage...

Back to that Berlin Phil concert I just mentioned - the Brahms First Symp was so energetically played I expected some of the musicians' heads to fly off!

“All art constantly aspires towards the condition of music.” (Walter Pater).
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.93.28
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 02:20 pm:   

Mbfg/Terry! Yes! That feels almost like an invite! I'll try and finish a piece today.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.93.28
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 02:23 pm:   

Des - it recently struck me that art galleries are for folk who cannot see life properly. They feel like instructive places, telling us how to see. For you and I we don't need galleries to know what things look like, don't need an image framed or put inside a space to tell us it has beauty or significance.
(and by you and I I mean creative folk generally!)
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.68
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 02:49 pm:   

They certainly don't feel like that to me, and I wouldn't be without art galleries or my large collection of art books.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.158.237.247
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 02:53 pm:   

I agree with Ramsey, Tony.
My visits to the two galleries recently in Copenhagen were life-changing.
I agree that one can make our own galleries meanwhile inside our heads!
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.199.129
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 03:04 pm:   

Yes, for me art (as in paintings, etc), and viewing art in books or galleries, is about showing me an *alternative* way of looking at things. I wouldn't presume to be able to see the world through someone else's eyes (ie. the artist), so for me it's fantastic to be able to do so by studying their art.

Sorry, maybe we should have a separate "art" thread for this interesting discussion, rather than highjacking Des' "classical music" thread? I'm afraid I'm no great fan of classical music, apart from Stravinsky who seems to see the world (as described in his music) in a totally different way to others.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.93.28
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 03:12 pm:   

Oh, I wouldn't be without them, I wasn't saying that, I was just saying that for me I don't go round them saying 'Oh, what does that mean? What's that about?' in the way others might. I understand a lot of it (I have an art degree) but don't feel I need to feel puzzled by it in the way many others say they are.
My post looked quite negative, didn't it - oops.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.93.28
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 03:14 pm:   

To reinforce my earlier point; I love paintings and feel galleries have sort of pushed them out.

I joined a writing course this week at Durham uni and was amazed to see the halls lined with original artworks. It was wonderful, just really wonderful to see pictures on walls in such ordinary spaces.
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.204
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 03:52 pm:   

"The Places Between" was inspired both by music -Saint-Saen (is that the right spelling?)"Aquarioum of the Fishes" from his "Carnival of the Animals" suite and from the paintings of Bosch and Dali.

Terry
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.155.107.93
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 06:16 pm:   

apparently, THE GOTHIC SYMPHONY of Havergal Brian is having one of its rare performances --- in Australia, very soon.
This is a remarkable event.
It has a curse...
http://www.qpac.com.au/gothicsymphony/
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Skip (Wolfnoma)
Username: Wolfnoma

Registered: 07-2010
Posted From: 216.54.20.98
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 06:30 pm:   

I've been a fan of Michael Tilson Thomas and all of his interpretations of the Masters. I find myself replaying "Symphonie Phantastique" at least once a month. Quite moving.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 12:00 pm:   

Stravinsky is far and away my favourite composer as well, Caroline, and the one I've got most CDs of, including numerous different versions of 'Rite Of Spring', 'Petrushka' & 'The Firebird'. There's something both primal and utterly new in his music that I never grow tired of. It was falling in love with the experimental instrumental works of Frank Zappa that led me to investigate his influences - the likes of Varese, Schoenberg & Stravinsky - and from there the whole wonderful world of classical music just sucked me in. Bach is my other great fav now.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.171.167.169
Posted on Monday, December 20, 2010 - 04:28 pm:   

I'm listening to the best performance of DAS LIED VON DER ERDE (Mahler) I think I've ever heard. It is on the wireless this PM (as I write this). This music, for me, is simultaneously the most devastating and the most uplifting music it is possible to imagine
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.68
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 11:57 am:   

Walter with Ferrier, Des?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.171.167.169
Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2010 - 12:14 pm:   

Hi, Ramsey.
I didn't know the details of the performance until it was finished yesterday PM on Radio 3. I thought it was an amzing performance and literally has made my Christmas!
Vladimir Ashkenazy - Sydney Symphony Orchestra - Liilli Paasikivi & Stuart Skelton
Listen again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00wh656/Afternoon_on_3_Mahler_Mahler_The_F inal_Years_Part_1
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.39.90
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 09:45 am:   

Is this not some of the most devastating music ever played ... and ever heard?
http://www.ligotti.net/showthread.php?p=60286#post60286
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.173.166.96
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 11:40 am:   

Des - I bought that CD back in the early 'nineties, along with a few other Kronos Quartet ones. That's an absoloutely stunning piece, and one of my favourites of their music. Have you read the sleeve notes about this piece? Makes for very interesting reading.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.31.7.247
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 01:54 pm:   

Des, have a look at this! :-)

gflvb
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.39.90
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 02:22 pm:   

Wonderful, Gary!
Glad you're having a good time in Vienna.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.39.90
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 02:24 pm:   

Strange, though, as I opened this thread to see your photo for the first time, I was listening to a late string quartet by Beethoven.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.173.166.96
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 02:31 pm:   

So Beethoven's dead, is he? Nothing in the papers about that...
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 02:35 pm:   

Not only is he dead, he's decomposed
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.176.105.56
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 02:37 pm:   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjWPXybVjYE
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.31.7.247
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 03:16 pm:   

More stuff here, Des.

Ludwig's piano:

lvbpiano
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.31.7.247
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 03:17 pm:   

schubert
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.31.7.247
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 03:18 pm:   

brahms
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.31.7.247
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 03:20 pm:   

mask
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.144.35
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 03:28 pm:   

Dear God, that Kronos music is more depressing and upsetting than actual depressing and upsetting things! I've just heard about the imminent death of a thirty year old friend-of-a friend ('She's come to terms with it' the friend said) and was less upset by that news than listening to this. And I was pretty upset.

(Factoid; lead violinist in the Kronos Quartet, David Harrington, his favourite film is Turner and Hooch...)
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.144.35
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 03:30 pm:   

Gary - thought that last one was an ikea loo seat!
I bet you can get one like that, now I've said it.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.31.7.247
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 04:16 pm:   

I'd buy one!
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.39.90
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 04:56 pm:   

Dear God, that Kronos music is more depressing and upsetting than actual depressing and upsetting things! I've just heard about the imminent death of a thirty year old friend-of-a friend ('She's come to terms with it' the friend said) and was less upset by that news than listening to this. And I was pretty upset.
=======================

Really sorry, Tony.
I hoped to warn people by what I said about the music.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.153.144.35
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2011 - 06:12 pm:   

Sorry, too Des - despite this situation our friend-of-a-friend is in I was sort of aiming for humour. Yes, it was quite strong stuff though.

This poor f.o.f. is in a hospice now, days to live. 30 like I said. I met her once at a party - apparently she had just found out she was going to die. I had no idea what to say to her. Her mum and dad are going through hell, apparently, of course.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.155.19.134
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2011 - 08:46 pm:   

Meanwhile, CPE Bach - tonight, a month later - is enough to set your feet tapping and your heart singing.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2011 - 09:45 pm:   

Just heard on Radio 3 a (for me) newly revelatory rendition of Mahler's DAS LIED VON DER ERDE - the Chamber version orchestrated by Schoenberg, and for male voices...
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.141.211.138
Posted on Friday, March 11, 2011 - 02:11 pm:   

Oh, the friend-of-friend died in her sleep, btw. 28.
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Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.204
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 03:45 pm:   

Just been listening to Samuel Barber's Cello Concerto. I love Barber. There is so much moe to him than his wonderful and emotionally scalding Adagio for Strings. tehj mixture of American music and powerful, heartbreaking melodies is masterly and raises the hairs on the back of my neck.

Cheers
Terry
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 03:49 pm:   

Barber's Violin Concerto, too, and his songs, and his Clarinet Concerto...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 03:56 pm:   

Sorry, I think I must have got Barber's Clarinet Concerto from an Alternate World...!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.213.180
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 04:03 pm:   

Brahms' German Requiem. And the greatest hits of Black Lace.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 06:04 pm:   

Brahms' German Requiem.

------------------

Life-changing the first time you hear it.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.213.180
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 06:16 pm:   

Well, context is probably important, too. I was stuck on the fucking A64. I'm not sure Johannes had this in mind when he paged the Almighty.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 07:01 pm:   

Good job it wasn't the first time you heard it, then. :-)
Hope you've escaped any concern about the A64 fucking you by now.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.14.243
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 07:21 pm:   

Brahms' German Requiem. And the greatest hits of Black Lace.

Black Lace, yes, but Brahms?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.213.180
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 08:32 pm:   

Des: that joke did not come from you, no way.

Mick: you gotta add the oldies in case folk think you're a pretentious twat.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 08:40 pm:   

Gary, it was an academic overture.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.213.180
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 08:51 pm:   

Should you tell it again? Aga-don't.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 08:55 pm:   

Did you know that a German Requiem is a name for a certain sexual act in Mayfair.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.213.180
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 09:09 pm:   

Le petite mort?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 09:17 pm:   

Just fusing horizons. I'm pleased I wasn't the first person to use the f-word on the Classical Music thread.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.213.180
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 09:21 pm:   

Beethoven would have been proud. My favourite Beethoven quotation is as follows: in response to a fellow composer's less than flattering comments on a latest piece, he replied, "Pitiful scoundrel. My shit is better than anything you ever thought up."
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 09:43 pm:   

Harrison Birtwhistle's Eight Songs for a Mad King, a Pinteresque tragedy in which George III, besmeared with excrement, is regaled by caged musicians with snatches of Handel and the Beatles. One better than Beethoven?
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.199.129
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 10:02 pm:   

This classical music thread is rapidly going down the pan ...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 11:03 pm:   

Sorry, I was Liszt.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.178.81.13
Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 11:28 pm:   

Harrison Birtwhistle's Eight Songs for a Mad King, a Pinteresque tragedy in which George III, besmeared with excrement, is regaled by caged musicians with snatches of Handel and the Beatles. One better than Beethoven?

Hmmm - not heard this one. I have his "Punch & Judy" and "Sir Gawain and the Green Night" (which is almost 'normal' for Birtwhistle) but that's pretty much all of his stuff I know.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.68
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 08:15 am:   

You're in that alternate world again, Des - it's Peter Maxwell Davies, not Birtwistle. Roy Hart (the original soloist) also recorded Henze's "Versuch über Schweine", which is rather spectacular too (musically, I mean).
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 09:16 am:   

Sorry, Ramsey and everyone else, that was indeed a description of a Peter Maxwell Davies piece with that title. I was in a strange world yesterday...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.169.43.224
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 10:22 am:   

Talking about Hans Werner Henze, I recommend his Violin Concertos 1 & 3.
"Both works brilliantly explore a range of emotions from nightmare and anguish to musing melancholy." it says on the Naxos site.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.21.68
Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 11:31 am:   

I'm fond of his symphonies too, Des - there used to be a very good set on DGG.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.36.129
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 04:29 pm:   

I've just watched one the TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED from the 1970s - with Wendy Hiller and Joseph Cotten - about a cat that is a reincarnation of Franz Liszt. I thought Gary F might enjoy it.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.24.131
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 07:09 pm:   

Edward the Conquerer. The Dahl tale on which it's based is much better, largely because it doesn't have the silly ending.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.36.129
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 08:20 pm:   

I'm not sure I understand the TV production ending. Did FL as a cat go on the bonfire and, if so, did it reincarnate again as her husband whom she stabbed?
Interested in Roald's intro with his green baize tray - i.e. always listening to a Beethoven String Quartet before writing. Ditto! (well, not always!)
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.24.131
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 08:23 pm:   

It was nonsense, that ending - overblown. The story is far more arch.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.36.129
Posted on Friday, April 29, 2011 - 12:36 pm:   

I don't usually like John Rutter music, but I am quite impressed by the music he specially composed (just performed for the first time) at the Wedding.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.36.214
Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 08:42 pm:   

Wow!!!!!!!!! Those not listening to the Gothic Symphony at this very moment on Radio 3 live from the proms, should do so. Without fail.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.147.137.208
Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 08:52 pm:   

But Top Gear's on in 10 minutes
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.153.251.119
Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 09:57 pm:   

"Dark, but life affirming" as the announcer said.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.147.137.208
Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 12:31 am:   

Top Gear's not dark???
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.153.251.119
Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 08:44 am:   

A major musical experience last night at the London Proms.

A rare performance of THE GOTHIC SYMPHONY by Havergal Brian. Conducted by Martin Brabbins. The work is massive in many senses of that word and as Tom Service said on Radio 3 last night: “dark, but life affirming.”

Please catch its repeat on an afternoon this week on Radio 3 or on the BBC iplayer. You will never forgive yourself if you miss it.

If you are used only to the well-seasoned (and to me inferior) Marco Polo recording of this work, last night’s performance, I think you’ll find, is a complete revelation.

Havergal Brian wrote 32 symphonies (the Gothic is his first) and much else. I have long owned CDs of his music. Please consult his wikipedia etc and the Havergal Brian Society.

Much more will be said on this event, I feel.

PS: Someone mentioned to me last night that Eugene Goossens also wrote a similar work, one based on St John’s Revelation (that word again), entitled ‘The Apocalypse’ that, I note this morning, is only briefly mentioned on Goossens’ wikipedia.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.153.251.119
Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 10:56 pm:   

Gary F (and anyone else), I hope you managed to catch a TV recording on BBC4 just now of the Proms: Liszt's Faust Symphony with male chorus at the end. Wonderful. I think I may be a Liszt convert! Never too late to re-appraise one's own tastes.... :-)
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.25.15.51
Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 11:07 pm:   

At last, he's seen the light!

Faust is awesome: that final movement is one of the greatest orchestral pieces of the 19th Century.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.159.146.177
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 03:07 pm:   

The Effloresecence of the Ears
....when listening to Classical Music:

effloresce
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.159.146.177
Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 03:13 pm:   

That should be spelt Efflorescence !
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.159.146.177
Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2011 - 10:00 am:   

Lang Lang playing Liszt on last night's last night of the proms... a bit self-consciously actorly (like the composer was?), but enjoyable.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.143.98.239
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 06:56 pm:   

This is 'Drowned Out' by Turnage:
http://www.filefactory.com/file/ceec2b5/n/01_Turnage__Drowned_Out.m4a
Any other requests for music?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.143.98.239
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 09:16 pm:   

In about 15 minutes at 8.30 a live performance from Wignore Hall of Liszt's mighty Piano Sonata in B Minor.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.143.98.239
Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 01:42 pm:   

Did anyone else see that wonderful Terry Gilliam production of 'The Damnation of Fause' by Berlioz on BBC4 last night. Astonishing production that I think many here would enjoy from the Historical Fantasy and Horror point of view.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.143.98.239
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 12:03 pm:   

I seriously can't recommend this Gilliam production enough to Horror Genre fans (and many of the later images are Whovian!).
Catch it while you can on BBCi player.
You'll know what I mean if you do,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b015swyf/Terry_Gilliams_Faust/
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.199.129
Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 12:38 am:   

Just had one of those "saw this and thought of you guys" moments. Some news I've just posted on the BFS site - thought some of you might like to try to get to this concert:

http://www.britishfantasysociety.co.uk/news/unique-theatrical-concert-for-hallow een/
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.131.175.228
Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 08:36 am:   

Thanks, Caroline. I shall consider that to be Peter Straub's launch of 'Classical Horror'!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.1.6
Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 12:00 pm:   

I saw that thing by Straub mentioned on the Culture Show - all looked a bit vague, somehow...
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.22.137
Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2011 - 12:20 pm:   

Hurrah! The performance of the Gothic Symphony Des recommended (which I managed to miss twice) is now on CD from Hyperion.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.156.32.78
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 07:10 pm:   

Thanks to Gary McMahon for drawing this modern opera to my attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-K1sNFfKRU&feature=related
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.29.252.215
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 04:31 pm:   

You can't beat a bit of Henenlotter!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.254.46
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2011 - 08:06 pm:   

Wash your mouth out!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.29.252.215
Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 02:54 am:   

Tonight I am mostly listening to; some Scherzi & Impromptus with the Allegro de concert by Chopin (Idil Beret), 'Blue Train' by John Coltrane, Symphonies No's 2 & 4 by Martinu (NSO of Ukraine & Arthur Fagen), some early Venetian lute music (Christopher Wilson & Shirley Rumsey) & 'King Kong' by Jean-Luc Ponty & Frank Zappa.

A musical multiple orgasm if ever I heard one!
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.53.39
Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - 08:14 pm:   

Brahms' Requiem, particularly "Den Alles Fleisch Es ist wie Gras". Glorious. Am developing my own guitar solos for "Bluesette" and "Black Orpheus". Learned to play the solo on the Beatles' "Something". Still amazed after all these years by Allan Holdsworth's solo on Soft Machine's "Hazard Profile Part 1".
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - 11:39 am:   

Ah, Soft Machine... haven't listened to them in a while. That's my listening sorted for tonight... One to Seven randomised.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.156.32.78
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - 12:17 pm:   

Symphonies No's 2 & 4 by Martinu
================

Have you tried the symphonies of Honegger?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - 12:50 pm:   

I'm not familiar with Honegger's music, Des. I'm drawn to Martinu's integration of European folk music into his works. That distinctive and, for me, quite haunting violin sound with its otherworldly resonances. Janacek & Bartok appeal to me as well for the same reason.

Martinu's 6th Symphony - 'Fantaisies Symphoniques' - is my favourite of his.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.21.90
Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2012 - 12:10 pm:   

Just to second Des's recommendation of the Brabbins version of the Gothic Symphony - a very intense performance of a strange and powerful work.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.159.145.243
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 11:49 am:   

I'm glad it lived up to my recommendation, Ramsey. Thanks.

My next recommendation (which may not be new to anyone) is anything by Roslavets.

If he is new to anyone, try his Violin Concerto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-QloAcs4Pw

And there's plenty more available on-line.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.179.35.191
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2012 - 01:26 pm:   

That's wonderful, Des - that may be the first time I've heard anything by Roslavets.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.152.183.4
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2012 - 10:18 pm:   

From 4.30pm today - 24/7 for 8 days - BBC Radio 3 is nothing but Schubert! :-)
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.151.109.99
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 07:10 pm:   

Daniel Barenboim playing all Beethoven symphonies at the Olympic Year Proms - great.
But that hour long Boulez piece with several soloists between the 1st & 2nd was a *major* event
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.178.159.240
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2012 - 07:31 pm:   

We watched part of the Boulez - interesting stuff...

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