| Author | Message | ||
     Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 62.254.173.35 |
According to the Bookseller, Stephen King is writing an eighth DARK TOWER book and Shaun Hutson is to novelize three Hammer Horror movies for the Hammer publishing imprint. Ar. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
Yeah, I heard about this weeks ago. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
YESSS!!! followed by BOOO!!! Love the Dark Tower books. Hutson is rubbish | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
But I thought the big deal about the 'Dark Tower' series was that King brought it all to a conclusion in the last one? As for Hutson... .. ... .. . . . | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
Hey, good luck to Hutson - I'd love to get some of that action. I'd rather see someone whose work I enjoy writing them, but I bet they sell okay... | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Yeah, I thought so too Stevie. But it will be interesting to see what he does with it. | ||
| C_j_fenwick (C_j_fenwick) Username: C_j_fenwick Registered: 06-2011 Posted From: 2.25.129.156 |
Hmm I kinda enjoy Hutson personally or rather I did back in the day when he was writing his horror stuff as opposed to his later 'gritty drama' stuff. No his writing is not high-art by any means but I've always enjoyed the fact that they were pulp-ish page-turners, especially the likes of 'Relics' and 'Erebus'. For my own part, I welcome his return to matters more supernatural. | ||
| C_j_fenwick (C_j_fenwick) Username: C_j_fenwick Registered: 06-2011 Posted From: 2.25.129.156 |
Hmm I kinda enjoy Hutson personally or rather I did back in the day when he was writing his horror stuff as opposed to his later 'gritty drama' stuff. No his writing is not high-art by any means but I've always enjoyed the fact that they were pulp-ish page-turners, especially the likes of 'Relics' and 'Erebus'. For my own part, I welcome his return to matters more supernatural. | ||
| C_j_fenwick (C_j_fenwick) Username: C_j_fenwick Registered: 06-2011 Posted From: 2.25.129.156 |
Oops a double posting - sorry! | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.254.126 |
Well, I raise a glass to anyone who can write a coherent novel. (Did you see what I did there?) | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
Probably not a good time to mention the three Shaun Hutson novels I picked up at the office book fair today then...  | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.4.19.77 |
I went through an adolescent Hutson phase back in the day and still have a grudgingly nostalgic fondness for his early splatter novels - of which 'Erebus' was easily the most accomplished. But, by god, is he a hack. I couldn't even imagine getting past the first page of any of his novels these days. I grew up. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
Lynchy: no. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
Stevie- 'Erebus' was one of those I picked up, and 'Shadows' another. The very same 80s editions I shelled out the then-exorbitant sums of £3.50 for... I've a soft spot for Hutson (so has Joel; a disused bleach reservoir in Erdington, if memory serves ) As I've said elsewhere, his books helped point me back in the direction of horror as a field of literature (yeah, I know) - and yes, I'd very likely invested more meaning in his work than it merited. But I'd be dishonest if I didn't admit his work played its part, although other writers, like Joel, the landlord and others, have influenced my work far more in the years since. But I learnt some things from reading Hutson (honest). Stevie mentioned 'Erebus'- in which a new experimental cattle feed is allowed, due to commercial interests manipulating the authorities, to create an epidemic that destroys people's brains (turning them into blood-crazed vampiric psychos in the process, but hey.) I re-read it in the wake of the BSE/vCJD affair of the late 90s and it couldn't help but strike a chord. Maybe I really liked the potential in the storylines- they had the kind of scale that a really good writer could make something special of. Well, that was my excuse. I developed a habit of reading around the spectacular gore set-pieces and (once I'd weathered the worst of puberty's storms) the clinically graphic sex scenes, and that was where I found the stuff that interested me. But I'd probably best not actually read these books I bought out of nostalgia, had I? Or I'll be back tomorrow in a state of maudlin embarrassment begging the Prof to delete this post... | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
...or even 'mortified embarrassment.' Gah. Time for bed. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.253.65 |
I took one of Mr H's recent novels out of the library, read a chapter to my partner. She thought I was taking the pee and demanded to see the evidence for the prosecution on paper. To be fair, everyone drops a clanger now and again, but when the whole editorial department's engaged in it as an Olympic sport it's worthy of mention. But I kinda like Mr H. Doesn't seem to take himself too seriously, and reckons he's only in the job as an entertainer. I watched Cannon and Ball's The Boys In Blue the other day, and that was entertaining. I actually saw it at the cinema when I was a kid. A bunch of us went, and were a bit disappointed to learn we were watching a remake of the Will Hay classic Ask A Policeman, which we'd seen on telly the week before. Yer've got me nipple, Tommy. Uhm. There was a point to this, but it has escaped my mind, so is winging around the hollow emptiness of my skull. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 2.24.29.44 |
I read Hutson's ninth (I think) novel as part of a marathon reading programme for a 1990s genre overview I was writing with two other horror fans. It was boring: heavy gun research info dumps and clinically detailed exit wound descriptions dressed up as a novel by some sketchy narrative designed to get pre-corpses (aka characters) into the line of fire before you noticed they were around. I'm all in favour of 'entertainment' but the book was about as entertaining as a corporate board meeting. Also I wonder why Hutson is defended as 'pulp' when he has none of the pulp tradition's economy, urgency or creative fire. I'm reliably informed that he's a nice bloke who loves his family. Fair enough. I don't think his books are vile, sick or bannable. I just don't think they're any good. On the strength of this thread I might give Erebus a try if I find a second-hand copy.  | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.209.217 |
On the strength of this thread I might give Erebus a try if I find a second-hand copy. Egad. What have I wrought?  | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
Saying Hutson got you into horror is like saying McDonald's got you into junk food. It's true, but is it really something to be applauded? The other discursive defence is that he's just a storyteller: Jeffrey Archer excuses his own daft rubbish in a similar way. Would anyone like to defend him here? (Disclaimer: I read Jeffrey Archer as a youngster and occsasionally eat McDonald's now: they're both shite.) | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
On the other hand, I have a similarly indefensible love of crappy 80s sitcoms. But I'd never call them anything other than shite. It's just me and my nostalgia. The works themselves - stand up and bow, Mollie Sugden - are indefensible. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.82 |
I like McDonalds! Now and then. I hated that doc about the man eating them all the time; he'd probably be ill driving round the US eating just lettuce. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.6.85 |
That's My Boy? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
Ha! That's one of em! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
I actually don't think we should need to defend the fact that we like a bit of low-rent culture. Everyone has their own inexplicable likes; things that chime with us. There's nothing wrong with the odd kebab if you're eating a regular, balanced diet. The problem comes when people eat at that shabby little kebab van every mealtime. They lose the ability to discern the shit from the healthier food types. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
I wonder if in cultural studies there's a phenomenon called "+20". Basically, the theory states that entertainers who burn brightly in a particular decade are assured a revival in reputation or commercial exposure after about two decades, when the impressionable folk who devoured their work back then hit the first "nostalgia" age of 40-something. These latter folk may well be high up in the commissioning jobs which determine media output: on TV, in publishing, etc. Or they might just be fans seeking to express the time-bejewelled pleasures of their pasts. Just an armchair theory. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something similar in the field. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
>>>I actually don't think we should need to defend the fact that we like a bit of low-rent culture. There's a difference here, though. It sometimes seems as if there's only kebabs available. The street is full of kebab shops. Where's the decent restaurants? You gotta go down back alleys and pay through the nose for them. I think that's why I personally find Hutson (and Dan Brown and others) indefensible. To extend the food metaphor, they occupy the premises which could be occupied by better eateries. The high street has only so many vacancies. That's not true of eateries, is it? In any town, there's both kebab shops and restaurants. Ergo, publishing sucks. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
To paraphrse Paul Weller: the public gets what the public wants. Lovers of high-brow culture are in the minority. The oiks rule the airwaves. Do not adjust your set. That's not true of eateries, is it? In any town, there's both kebab shops and restaurants. Have you ever been to Bramley? ;-) To be serious, though I disagree. In literature, for every Hutson there are ten Graham Joyces. Sadly, Hutson probably sells more, but at least we don't have to buy what he's selling. In TV we're fucked. Movies...almost fucked. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
Dennis Wheatley is my odd kebab. His books have moved out of the scary horror arena into priceless hilarity. You couldn't write more entertaining spoofs. Maybe one day people will say the same thing about Shaun Hutson or Guy N. Smith... but I doubt it will be our generation. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
>>>for every Hutson there are ten Graham Joyces That isn't the point. In Fiction City, down Publishing Street, the impression is that for every Graham Joyce, there are ten Hutsons. >>>To paraphrse Paul Weller: the public gets what the public wants. The diet of the nation is carefully tailored by alienators. It's quite deliberate. "Dumb" is the one thing on the menu because it serves powerful interests. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
>>>Lovers of high-brow culture are in the minority. No, that's slot-rattling. I'm not on about Wagnerian opera as an alternative to Hutson. I'm just on about something competent. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
Dennis Wheatley is my odd kebab. Now there's a phrase you don't see every day. No, that's slot-rattling. No it isn't - well, if I knew what that meant, I'd refute it, anyway.  Hutson is competent. He uses commas and full stops and writes sentences that make sense. He might be shit, but he's competent. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
That isn't the point. In Fiction City, down Publishing Street, the impression is that for every Graham Joyce, there are ten Hutsons. Isn't that slot-rattling, then? Seriously - get down to Waterstones. Yes, the populist hack fiction is more prominently displayed (because more money is pumped into advertising it), but it's outnumbered by the good stuff. It is in Leeds and Manchester, anyway. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
That's the real problem, I think: the tacky populist stuff is simply much more prominent than the more substantial stuff. It's all about money and advertising. But the good stuff's still there. Believe me. It just isn't right in your eyeline. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.27.14.15 |
Sorry, I'm talking only about the horror shelves. I go to the stores and see loads of Hutsons, loads of vampire stuff, loads of other forgettable stuff . . . and about one Ramsey Campbell, one Adam Nevill, one whatever. I look around for good stuff and don't see, eyeline or not. It's certainly doesn't outnumber the dross. Btw, your definition of competence in fiction is not the same as mine in this context. I'm not just talking about putting the fullstops in the right places. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
Ah, right - sorry, I didn't realise you meant specifically horror. The horror shelves (if they even exist, and in some shops they don't) have been bad for a long time...and this goes back to my dislike of Horror as a marketing term. Believe me, mate, Hutson seems like Nabikov compared to some of the free fiction people are peddling via the Kindle. It really opened my eyes to the reasons why self-publishing is such a bad thing. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
Hutson got lucky; he caught the big 80s boom in horror. If he were starting out now, he'd be self-publishing and selling his books on a stall alongside home-made jewellery at Fcon. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.153.150.82 |
Zed - that stuff will give books a bad name. I wouldn't mind Kindling stuff but only because I'm skint, but i wouldn't put it out there without some kind of quality control. | ||
| C_j_fenwick (C_j_fenwick) Username: C_j_fenwick Registered: 06-2011 Posted From: 2.25.110.223 |
Bloody hell you want to talk about the state of the horror book shelves down Waterstones, how about the fact that most of it is slowly being taken over by that godawful dross now as 'Paranormal Romance'? Honestly, if I see one more of those pasty-faced undead pretty boys staring back at me from their covers with all that teeny-angst crap plastered across their features I might very well just scream. The big store in Leeds seems to be chocka with them, or it was the last time I was in there. Perhaps its just a wave thats past me by now that I've gotten older I don't know. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.253.77 |
To be honest, I never stop in the horror section, just a quick glance - I go straight to the other shelves. If I want horror, I buy it online. | ||
| Mbfg (Mbfg) Username: Mbfg Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 92.4.171.68 |
Mr Fenwick, I couldn't agree more, and I'm only 16-ish (a very big ish). Dracula, now there's a proper Vampire. a lust-driven, hate-filled monster with no soul or conscience. And I'm the same Gary. Nearly all the horro I own comes from the dealer tables at conventions or via the interweb. Cheers Terry | ||
| C_j_fenwick (C_j_fenwick) Username: C_j_fenwick Registered: 06-2011 Posted From: 2.25.110.223 |
Me three to be honest. I get nearly all my horror material, be it dvds, novels etc, from off the web. But even so I always find time to visit the horror sections in the likes of Waterstones, if more from a sense of nostalgia than for anything else. I do miss the days when bookshops nearly always stocked the kind of horror books that interested me but if I'm honest perhaps its more the fact that my own taste in horror has shifted over the years and the horror shelves haven't altered quite so much as I'd like to think. As for those Paranormal Romance novels, I'm not knocking for the quality of their stylistic content; on the contrary, having never actually read one they may very well be more than competently written. No, my main beef is that they all just seem to be farming the same old troubled teeny vampire thing that 'Twilight' has been doing so dreadfully for the past few years now. Horror is a cyclic beast, of course, and this vein of supposed supernatural literature will die its death and be replaced by something else in time. All I'm really saying is that I find it a rather bland and tedious subgenre meant for spotty pubescents and I cannot wait for it to have had its time. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.254.60 |
Getting the full stops and commas in the right place - while important - isn't my idea of competence either. That recent book I read parts of aloud to my partner was not competent. That's why it was so funny. 'Master storyteller' is usually code for 'can't write for toffee'. But story is, I'm coming to realise, often more and more important than getting the high falutin' stylistic stuff right. I'd invite folk to read King's introduction to the revised edition of The Gunslinger for a quick reinforcement of this notion. Of course, the ideal is to get the prose and the tale working together. Like, say, in the lovely Gollancz Masterworks reissue of Cliff Simak's The City. Gorgeous tree-book (as opposed to e-book). Haven't read any Kindle DIY jobs, but have read the reviews for John Locke (familiar name!), the first self-published guy to sell a million books via Kindle. Sounds like he's selling to folk who perhaps don't much care for the difference between competency and, uh, none competency. On self-publishing, Zed, do you think producing the Tiny Terrors pamphlets was a bad idea now, on reflection? (I'm not taking the pee, by the way; genuinely interested in your thoughts on what you were thinking back then, the desire to be read, and how they look like to you now you've got some helathy publishers behind you.) | ||
| Mbfg (Mbfg) Username: Mbfg Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 81.155.51.186 |
Also on self-publishing... My own "Exaggerated Man" collection was self-published. Okay, all the stories it contained, bar one, had been filtered through the magazine system which, hopefully, gave then some credibility, but it was a homemade book. It has garnered a lot of positive reviews (not in the TLS etc, but from many people whose opinion I respect). And no, it hasn't sold millions, but I'm proud of it, of the amount I have managed to sell and I stand by it. Oddly, by the way, the story that wasn't previously published, turned out to be a favourite with quite a large number of readers. But yes, I do understand the negative side of self-publishing. You only have to watch (no, you don't literally have to, so don't panic) the early episodes of an X Factor series to see how self-deluded many people are - the same, I'm afraid, goes for writing. And, of course Zed, I am still as chuffed as nuts at what you have done (especially as a fellow ex-Whisperer), because it is one hell of an achievement and shows what slog, dedication, conviction and above all, talent, can do. And talent is the operative word. Ultimately it is what we are all striving for, but until we get there (or not, lets be honest with ourselves here), we have to use any means available to make ourselves heard. Cheers Terry | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.150.16.212 |
On self publishing, look no further than people like Nicoletta paccionne - convinced he's the modern equivalent of Poe and Lovecraft despite the fact his stories are so fucking atrocious he makes the worst offenders on x-factor seem reasonable in their beliefs |