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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.156.186.26
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2011 - 05:55 pm:   

According to someone on this board, the worst of the Harry Potter movies is better than anything Gilliam has ever made...

How can anyone who's seen Brazil or Fisher King or Tideland or 12 Monkeys or fear and loathing.

While I will concede that the best of the Potter's is better than The Brothers Grimm, the five films I've named above are easily in my to 20 films ever and not a single HP movie is even in the running.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2011 - 07:38 pm:   

I preferred The Brothers Grimm to the Potters I've seen, but I'm a big fan of Gilliam's work - even his lesser stuff entertains me.

I'd add Time Bandits to your list of great Gilliam films, btw.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.183.79.254
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2011 - 07:47 pm:   

Got to agree with all the above. Can't believe Ramsey has that poor an opinion of Gilliam.


No, it wasn't really Ramsey...
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2011 - 11:16 pm:   

Difficult to comment, as I've never seen any of the Potter films in their entirety, but from the sequences I have seen here and there it's hard to imagine any of them challenging Time Bandits for the children's fantasy film crown.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.155.207.87
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 08:13 am:   

Oi, buggerlugs!
All I'm saying is that I've realised I get more involved with a Potter film than I have done with any Gilliam. The other night I caught -by chance - one of the ones I don't like, and actually enjoyed it very very much. Often with Gilliam - not always - I have to struggle to let pontificating go by, or a kind of dramatic/narrative 'screeching' go by. I can watch any Potter time and time again but a Gilliam, outside a handful, I just can't.

The Potters, for me, are the Saturday morning kids club films if Hammer made them, simple, obvious, but as just right as a mug of cocoa.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.183.79.254
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 10:09 am:   

"All I'm saying is that I've realised I get more involved with a Potter film than I have done with any Gilliam."

Perhaps you should have said that in the first place rather than:-

"Shock: Any Harry Potter film is better than any Terry Gilliam film."
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.155.207.87
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 10:15 am:   

I know. I think I have a kind of conversational tourettes you know, sort of know I'll wind people up. I apologise for that.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.29.18
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 11:25 am:   

I found the Potter series so unrewarding that I couldn't even be bothered to see the later ones.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 11:29 am:   

You're allowed to prefer the Harry Potter films to the works of Gilliam, Tony.

You're dead wrong, imo, but your "error" is entirely your own affair.

I've been watching the original 'Monty Python' TV show one-a-week this last lot of months and Gilliam's animations are the least dated elements of the programme. Not the funniest but the least dated and what gave the show that extra touch of class. His is a mercurial talent and always at its best when completely unfettered by studio or commerical pressures. I think the man is one of the few genuine cinematic geniuses of the last 30 odd years.

The Harry Potter movies, like the books, are professionally done entertainment for children, that respects their intelligence - and are important for that reason - but do nothing for me, as an adult, whatsoever.
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Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus)
Username: Rhysaurus

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 212.219.233.223
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 11:37 am:   

Wasn't Gilliam the preferred choice of J.K Rowling when the idea of making the first film was mooted?

Gilliam is a genius of cinema. The worst Gilliam film is better than the best Harry Potter film. That's the truth.

The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus is almsot certainly his best film. It's one of the few fantasy films I've ever seen that made me shout aloud, "That's the way to do it!"

No really, it's a perfect fantasy film. It's intellectually and emotionally engaging. It's just amazing... Lots and lots of ideas all playing off against each other... That's what fantasy is supposed to be about.

I frequently daydream that Gilliam will turn one of my books into a film. That's how much I love his work. (And displays how much of a daydreamer I am).

I agree with what Stevie says above. Gilliam's work has dated far less than that of the other Pythons (though Palin's Ripping Yarns still works...) I reckon Gilliam has been one of the biggest influences on me, ever since I first saw The Crimson Permanent Assurance many years ago...

And he's still trying to make a version of Don Quixote... That's one of the greatest stories ever told. I really hope it happens. One of the greatest stories filmed by one of the greatest directors ever...!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 12:07 pm:   

I still think he's the only modern director who could do 'Midnight Sun' justice.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.71.248
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 12:23 pm:   

I thought Gilliam came off very poorly in LOST IN LA MANCHA and that was about the time when I began to reassess his work negatively.

But recently seeing DR PARNASSUS I realised that his greatest flaw is what we need most today - his films are imaginative messes. We need less structure, more roughly packaged material that we should sift through ourselves.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.156.210.82
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 12:45 pm:   

Proto - that's the exact reason I like Gilliam so much, that messiness of ideas all slamming against each other. His best work is almost anti-Hollywood. It has jagged edges, no neat seams, is unclassiffiable, and tonally it's all over the place. Splendid stuff.
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Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus)
Username: Rhysaurus

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 212.219.233.223
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 12:54 pm:   

> ...that messiness of ideas all slamming against each other...

Yes, yes, YES! And that's what I need in literature too... and music...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.71.248
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 01:43 pm:   

DR PARNASSUS had all the richness of reading a book. And that sequence with the ladders was the closest feeling to an actual dream I've seen in a film since WILD STRAWBERRIES.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.156.210.82
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 02:00 pm:   

I still haven't seen DR PARNASSUS, but I recorded it so might just watch it this week.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.188.49
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 02:18 pm:   

It's fun, including at least two laugh-out loud moments.
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Rhysaurus (Rhysaurus)
Username: Rhysaurus

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 62.121.31.177
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 02:59 pm:   

The two laugh-out loud moments are:

(a) the entire first half of the film,
and:
(b) the entire second half of the film.

Just my view...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.94.178
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 04:22 pm:   

You can't leave it there, Gary F. What were they?

I laughed with joy at the ladder-stilts.

I loved that it wasn't Victorian - it was modern day featuring drunks and an unappreciative over-entertained public.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 04:33 pm:   

I avoided DR. PARNASSUS, but then I avoided TIDELAND too long, to my great debit... so it seems I must get that latest of Gilliam's....

But what the hell's this all about?! And is that the kid from LET THE RIGHT ONE IN? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA4sA4WHbrg
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.26.188.49
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 05:47 pm:   

The Pythonesque singing policemen wearing suspenders was one.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.221.150
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 06:05 pm:   

@ Craig - not sure, and No
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.143.98.239
Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - 01:56 pm:   

I'm putting this on the Gilliam thread as well as the classical music one:

Did anyone else see that wonderful Terry Gilliam production of 'The Damnation of Faust' by Berlioz on BBC4 last night. Astonishing production that I think many here would enjoy from the Historical Fantasy and Horror point of view.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.143.98.239
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 12:02 pm:   

I seriously can't recommend this Gilliam production enough to Horror Genre fans (and many of the later images are Whovian!).
Catch it while you can on BBCi player.
You'll know what I mean if you do,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b015swyf/Terry_Gilliams_Faust/
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.199.129
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 12:22 pm:   

Sounds good, Des - might treat myself to this if I get the chance later in the week (before it finishes on i-player). I'm not a great classical music fan (Stravinsky is my only real love in classical music), but this sounds interesting ...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 81.131.175.228
Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2011 - 03:58 pm:   

Anyone who starts this *must* persevere to the various mind-blowing climaxes, even if opera isn't their normal thing. Actually, although I love symphonic and chamber classical music, I'm not usually a great fan of opera.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2019 - 11:30 am:   

I don't think I'm an idiot or even right or wrong, but reading this was agonizing. But look where it's got me.
Anyway, watched HP one again last night and still loved it, maybe BECAUSE it now looks cheap or like something from the horror channel.
But you can see where Facebook started digging its claws in. Why quote me from somewhere else?
I really didn't get on with Dr Parnassus. I agree it was mad and different but it also felt immediately dated, like something you'd catch late on. Saturday night on channel Four in the early nineties (that's not a criticism...in fact, I don't know what it is...)
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.132.144
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2019 - 02:04 pm:   

I dunno Tony. I feel like you're wandering through this old stuff is getting you down? You could do with throwing open the shutters and blowing some of the dust away.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Thursday, May 16, 2019 - 03:18 pm:   

I'm just not very active and have basically no friends. And that's off putting to others. I meet people face to face and think they don't like me or I won't like them. Also, I think I've got dementia - my mind's just white noise. It's awful. I'm no longer able to think in a linear way.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.132.189
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2019 - 01:55 am:   

Your thoughts are still interesting. Like Gilliam, they can be an interesting mess, and exactly what we need right now, even more than when those posts were written above. I think you should get them out there, just release them in art form. The results doesn't matter. Be yourself put it out there and you'll attract kindred spirits and cheer each other up.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.132.189
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2019 - 01:55 am:   

A sonic cinema is a wonderful idea!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2019 - 09:40 am:   

Maybe I prefer the Potter's because I'm LIKE Gilliam... I envy their focus and aerodynamicism...
Thanks, Proto.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.150.37
Posted on Friday, May 17, 2019 - 02:03 pm:   

"Maybe I prefer the Potter's because I'm LIKE Gilliam... I envy their focus and aerodynamicism..."

That's just it, they're aerodynamic. They pass through us like neutrinos, leaving us unaffected. You don't want that in art.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 12:34 am:   

I do love the Potters, though. So much flavour. Also, time has a weird knack of making things art and taking it back again... It's the ultimate artist, in some ways.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2019 - 12:36 am:   

But I know what you mean. I mean, Men in Black 4 - it feels like it should be deleted as it's filmed, just leave it at the trailer stage.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.153.254.41
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 06:05 pm:   

It becomes problematic when one brings up "art." I, for example, love reading murder mysteries, that are of course not lousy but done well - that evidence a level of skill, of "artistry." But they're sort of designed to "pass through us like neutrinos, leaving us unaffected," except maybe at how entertaining they were at the time. You don't want that passing through, unaffected, in for example your experience of Shakespeare, not necessarily; but you may in, say, the latest episode of "Friends."

I find Gilliam a director I've enjoyed, depending on the film... but one I'd never return to, for re-nourishing. I'm probably alone in thinking BRAZIL dull as dishwater - of course, it's been many years, I should go back and give it a look. There's too much other art in my way of getting to that re-look, though....
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 08:08 pm:   

I said to someone recently that there are certain films I'll never see again, at least not by accident. Even films I used to love. Same goes with authors. I might never read Thomas Harris, say, or Jules Verne, or Ian McEwan. It's because there are only so many grains of sand in our hourglass now and I feel I need to savour each one, really want to experience them before they go.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 08:10 pm:   

Me and my son tried to watch Time.Bandits last year - a film I used to love - but only got half way. Gillian is one of the handful of people -like Neil Bauman - who I could listen to all day but whose work I don't really connect with.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 08:11 pm:   

Gaiman, not Bauman. :/
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.158.154
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2019 - 08:12 pm:   

Sigh. GILLIAM, not GILLIAN. Christ!

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