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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 07:46 am:   

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/movies/horror-movies-rattle-their-makers.html? _r=1&hpw
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.23.158
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 08:47 am:   

"Masters of horror"? H. G. Lewis? John Waters, who made his name with a gratuitously disgusting stunt and little else? At least Larry Fessenden's in there, I suppose.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.24.10.217
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 09:04 am:   

Nice to hear from Marti Noxon again. Given that Jason Zinoman obviously knocked the feature together in an hour based solely on who was on Facebook at the time, it could have been worse.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.24.10.217
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 09:17 am:   

Can I take this opportunity to recommend Flat Earth News by Nick Davies, a well-nformed and really worrying account of the mechanics of 'churnalism' the culture whereby even the most reputable newspapers generate news and features in a frighteningly short time, with staffing levels, resources and budgets cut to the bone? It shows up in a feature like this one, but if you want to be really scared, just compare different newspapers' versions of any 'breaking story' regardless of the paper's status and official stance, you'll see the same content in almost the same words, with the same quotes, in almost every national paper, since everyone relies on the same press release. It's very much like the way every ISP recycles the Sky News coverage, often with an acknowledgement to save them even having to edit the content.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 03:59 am:   

You really don't like Waters, Ramsey? I'll admit to being a fan myself, though maybe a guilty one, a fan of the guilty pleasures he provides. My favorite of his is POLYESTER, but I think his more recent classic-film-structure-demolishing A DIRTY SHAME sadly neglected....
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 04:02 am:   

I don't think I need to ask you to clarify the "gratuitously disgusting stunt" - it can only be....

Though in fairness, he claims Divine did it ad-lib and unplanned, on a sudden whim, as the camera was running. And what else is an intrepid director going to do, but zoom in?....
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.131.61.19
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 07:53 am:   

I like John Waters a lot. His films don't always work (or at least are sometimes difficult to watch!) but his heart's all in it and he's got the integrity. Plus he makes me laugh my head off which is even more important.
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 92.5.34.191
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:07 am:   

While John Waters was clearly a pioneer of the avant-garde, I still don't see how he can be styled a "master of horror".

Maybe I'm just an old softie, but my interest in horror has never extended into a fascination with the real-life grotesque.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.18.2
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:13 am:   

Nor do I, Paul.
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.253.174.81
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 12:14 pm:   

Oh I don't think he's a Master of Horror either - I just said I liked him. He's certainly helped me to understand some of the interesting individuals I get to meet on a fairly frequent basis in the emergency room.

my interest in horror has never extended into a fascination with the real-life grotesque.

Me neither, but once you've seen quite a bit of the very strange things people are capable of doing to themselves you start to develop an interest into the reasons. I have a whole museum of interesting and bizarre objects I've fished out of people and they form the basis for a particularly popular student lecture of mine.

Sorry, that's a bit off thread!
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.93.18.66
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 12:21 pm:   

Sounds like a Fantasycon programme item to me, John! Maybe in Corby ("the place people from Middlesbrough think of as hell" - Melinda Gebbie)?
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Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 86.131.61.19
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 12:29 pm:   

I've seen the JLP museum, Ramsey. Believe me, in some cases, you don't want to know...
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.253.174.81
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 12:30 pm:   

I suspect it may be too much for all but the most resilient of the FantasyCon crowd!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.176.250.238
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 02:09 pm:   

I'm up for it!
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.253.174.81
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 02:29 pm:   

Always a pleasure, Mr Curtis!
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 92.5.34.191
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 02:42 pm:   

I've replicated quite a few of my own ghastlier experiences as a cop in my writing (though not the worst ones), but these days I find any documentary programmes about 'Chav Britain' hopelessly dispiriting, and try to avoid them.

I know that's not quite the same thing, John, but I'm much happier to dwell in fictional horror these days rather than expose myself again to the real-life misery and degradation of so many.

As I said, I think I've become an old softie.
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 217.20.16.180
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 02:46 pm:   

>I suspect it may be too much for all but the most resilient of the FantasyCon crowd!<

I'd see it as a challenge! But only if there were accompanying slides.
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John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.253.174.81
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 02:58 pm:   

Paul - I suspect it's very different actually!

John - Of course there are slides! And actual objects.
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Paul_finch (Paul_finch)
Username: Paul_finch

Registered: 11-2009
Posted From: 92.5.34.191
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 03:43 pm:   

I suppose what I mean, John, is that I became qute immune to unpleasantness at one time, but I haven't really got the stomach for it any more.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 04:28 pm:   

Indeed, Paul, sometimes I wonder, like in this news story from a week ago, if horror can even compete anymore with "real life":

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/15/police-la-man-decapitated-disabled-son-7/

The most horrendous movies imaginable - nominate at will, Salo, Natural Born Killers, A Serbian Film - come close, only close but still never reach, the endless tally of history, life, reality....
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Frank (Frank)
Username: Frank

Registered: 09-2008
Posted From: 85.222.86.21
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 04:52 pm:   

Oliver Stone has made some questionable movies, but Natural Born Killers exposed mainstream media for the clueless mongrels they are. I think the obvious points the film brought up couldn't possibly be used against it, but alas they did. No shock there. You could almost hear Stone banging head against the wall out of frustration.

Great film.

One of the only films I might never watch again was 'Saviour' with Dennis Quaid. That was harrowing. I found it really hard to sit there until the end. Another great film. And Quaid's best, most overlooked performance.

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