Paradox generator Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

RAMSEY CAMPBELL » Discussion » Paradox generator « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.168.207.177
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 09:21 am:   

If you were to select one of the following answers at random, what are your chances of answering this question correctly?

a) 25%
b) 50%
c) 0%
d) 25%
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 12:09 pm:   

50%?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.209.100
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 12:55 pm:   

But 50% appears once on the list which gives a 25% chance of getting the correct answer
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 01:42 pm:   

Er, hang on while I try to work this out again ...

If I select one answer at random my chance of being right is 25%. But 25% appears twice on the list, at a) and d). So, one of these must be the correct answer - which gives me a 50% chance of chosing the right one? Or am I talking complete nonsense? I never was much good at logic puzzles and the like.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 02:06 pm:   

But 50% is one of your choices and only appears once on the list. therefore the chance of selecting 50% is 25%.

Therefore there's no way of selecting the correct answer so the actual odds are 0% which is also one of your options and only appears once... etc etc etc
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 02:29 pm:   

Ah, I see .... I think ....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 04:01 pm:   

There's something wrong with the whole premise. What is the question? There is no question, you see—you could reword it as: "Which of these answers is correct? A, B, C, or D." Without knowing what the question is, no answer can be provided.

It's the same paradoxical trick employed by the "unstoppable force" and the "immoveable object": both individually imply universes where the other cannot occur. Weber, you're tricking us here with a false "question"....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.210.179
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 04:42 pm:   

The question is stated in the first part of the thread. It's the interrogative statement that finishes with a question mark. Yes, it is almost completely unanswerable but it is most definitely there.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 05:03 pm:   

Paradoxically, the best answer for the question is 100% as all answers, although mutually exclusive, are correct. But even that answer has to be wrong.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 166.216.226.29
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 05:23 pm:   

Sorry Weber. It's an illogical question. The ANSWERS given, and one's "CHANCES" as stated in the question, are not the same thing. Again, there is no question that I can see.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 05:31 pm:   

I think Weber and Craig are two opposing ends of the same paradox.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 05:46 pm:   

If you were to select one of the following answers at random, what are your chances of answering this question correctly?


Can you see the question now or do I need to colour it in as well?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 166.216.226.71
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 06:00 pm:   

I can put a question mark at the end of anything and call it a question.

e.g....

Fast pseudo? Yes, or no? Only one answer is correct.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 166.216.226.71
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 06:04 pm:   

I think the %s are throwing us off....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 166.216.226.71
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 06:32 pm:   

The answer depends ON the answer.

If A or D is correct - 50%
If B orC is correct - 25%
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.129.61.16
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 01:38 am:   

But it's a paradox. If B or C is correct then A and D are correct and whichever one of B or C must be wrong... If A & D are correct than the answer must be either B or C

Shimples.

Another question - How many times can Craig fail the Turing test?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 02:44 am:   

NO! It's not a paradox, it's illogical!

"What are your chances of answering this question correctly?" Let's shorten it to that. No one knows—IT'S CONTEXT-LESS!

Adding, even before it, "If you were now to select one of these answers at random...." The answers have nothing to do with the question!

It makes absolutely no bloody sense whatsoever!!!

Are you just trying to make me look like a lunatic trying to answer this?!?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.210.148
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 09:11 am:   

I'm not trying to do that. It's just a useful by-product.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 09:22 am:   

Craig - you should have done like I did, ie. make a half-hearted attempt to answer it and then bow out gracefully.

It's strange watching you two interact on the internet. I'm guessing you've never met each other in real life? Yet you wind each other up no end. You're miles apart - both literally and metaphorically. Stay cool, chaps - it's only a little puzzle.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.211.12
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 09:35 am:   

It's not even a puzzle. Puzzles can be solved as a general rule
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 12:08 pm:   

To me, it's a puzzle. D'you wanna fight? Eh? Eh?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 02:30 pm:   

You're right, Caroline... I shouldn't engage, I shouldn't engage... it's a failing in me, I can't help it....

To me, it's neither a puzzle, nor a paradox—it's senseless!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.209.118
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 02:37 pm:   

It's a mirror for you then Craig
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 02:53 pm:   



Now to me, this is illogical, too—though here, I admit to being ignorant of the science and info and data to allow it to make sense. Still....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/sep/26/hubble-astronomers-deepest-view-ni ght-sky

Okay. So, let me attempt to grok with my feeble intellect what they're dishing up in this brief article:

Why is it whenever we seem to look "deeper" into the Universe, we just coincidentally and serendipitously are seeing, as well, "earlier"? I thought the Universe had no boundaries—no center, say. And even if it did, how utterly coincidental is it, that we are at the very farthest part from the "big bang"—so that constantly looking deeper, unveils ever earlier, star/galaxy formations?

Corollary: Whether the Universe has a center or boundaries or not, it remains that the Hubble telescope is a fixed object in space. So what would happen if it turned exactly 180º from the, quote, "small sliver of the night sky," and trained its view there? What would we see...? Presumably nothing, because we keep finding "earlier" galaxies/stars in the other direction. So have they performed this controlled experiment already, to determine this?

One would, again presumably, have to know the shape and our relative position in the wave explosion that is the "Big Bang" to determine which direction to look in reveals the earliest star formations: "As a result of the Big Bang (the tremendous explosion which marked the beginning of our Universe), the Universe is expanding and most of the galaxies within it are moving away from each other... all distant galaxies are moving away from us and... the farther away they are, the faster they are moving." http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/cosmic_classroom/cosmic_reference/redshift.ht ml ) Have scientists determined, then, they know (a) the shape of the big bang, (b) where it occurred in space-less Universe, and (c) our relational location within the explosion's "wave"?... I honestly don't know these things.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 04:31 pm:   

These paragraphs were excerpted yesterday at Andrew Sullivan's blog, from Robert Krulwich's book, Spectrums: Our Mind-Boggling Universe, from Infinitesmal to Infinity:

...if you assume a grain of sand has an average size and you calculate how many grains are in a teaspoon and then multiply by all the beaches and deserts in the world, the Earth has roughly (and we're speaking very roughly here) 7.5 x 10 [to the 18th power] grains of sand, or seven quintillion, five hundred quadrillion grains. That's a lot of grains.

But if you got a Hubble telescope and counted all the "distant galaxies, faint stars, red dwarfs, everything we've ever recorded in the sky" you'd end up with "70 thousand million, million, million stars in the observable universe (a 2003 estimate), so that we've got multiple stars for every grain of sand — which means, sorry, grains, you are nowhere near as numerous as the stars."


Really? Like all the sand on all the beaches in the world flung into the "sky"?... But we know of the "thin sliver" that peers "farthest" to the very Big Bang itself?... which occurred where exactly?...

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration