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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 81.149.182.62
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 08:43 pm:   

I have a lot of free time on my hands at the minute - yeah we split - and, as such, I am overdosing on genre entertainment. Looking the silver lining squarely in the face I would like all my fellow Ramsey fans on here to have a good think and challenge me to my Top 10 of anything. It's all collated in my brain, folks, and I'm not afraid to face anything you can throw at me.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 08:58 pm:   

Sorry to hear about the split, Stevie.

OK, brain's not working well at the moment so this is an easy one to get you into the swing of things - how about your top ten Boris Karloff films?

Someone else will come along with something more taxing soon, I'm sure.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 09:07 pm:   

OK, next one's a bit more challenging and popped into my head while I was feeding the cats.

Your top ten horror fiction shorts featuring cats is ...
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 111.251.227.122
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 09:59 pm:   

Sorry to hear that, Stevie. If good films, shows and books can help take your mind off things, then go ahead and overdose, I say!

As a big fan of Mr. Karloff I too would like to know which films you consider the strongest. My own list would have to include The Bride of Frankenstein, The Body Snatcher and Targets, just for starters.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 10:37 pm:   

Mine would have to include "The Black Room" too, Huw. In fact, that's my no. 1 Karloff film!

But wait, we're doing Stevie's job for him.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.239.243.158
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 11:54 pm:   

Top ten films with the bee gees in the soundtrack... :-)
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.239.243.208
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 12:11 am:   

Top ten horror films with a girl's name in the title...
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 01:20 am:   

"Top ten horror films with a girl's name in the title..."
Rosemary's Baby
Carrie
Christine
...
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 37.228.106.78
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 01:23 am:   

It's stevie's task... :-)
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 03:18 am:   

I'd like to know Stevie's list of top 10 thriller/suspense short-stories. Which would include novelettes and novellas.

Sorry to hear about the split....
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Giancarlo (Giancarlo)
Username: Giancarlo

Registered: 11-2008
Posted From: 109.52.62.144
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 07:19 am:   

As to Boris Karloff, Michael Reeves's "The Sorcerors"and, why not, "The Mummy" (James Whale's?)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 11:41 am:   

Hmmm... Top 10 Boris Karloff movies:

1. 'Frankenstein' (1931) by James Whale
2. 'The Bride Of Frankenstein' (1935) by James Whale
3. 'Targets' (1968) by Peter Bogdanovich
4. 'Die, Monster, Die!' (1965) by Daniel Haller
5. 'The Sorcerers' (1967) by Michael Reeves
6. 'The Mummy' (1932) by Karl Freund
7. 'The Black Cat' (1934) by Edgar G. Ulmer
8. 'The Ghoul' (1933) by T. Hayes Hunter
9. 'The Old Dark House' (1932) by James Whale
10. 'Son Of Frankenstein' (1939) by Rowland V. Lee

I haven't seen 'Black Sabbath' (would you believe!) or 'The Black Room'!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 11:48 am:   

I can't stand The Bee Gees, Weber, so I owe you a pint!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 12:18 pm:   

Here ya go, Caroline... Top 10 short horror stories I have read that feature cats:

1. ‘The Black Cat’ (1843) by Edgar Allan Poe
2. ‘The Yellow Cat’ (1934) by Michael Joseph
3. ‘She’ll Be Company For You’ (1969) by Andrea Newman
4. ‘The Squaw’ (1893) by Bram Stoker
5. ‘The Brazilian Cat’ (1898) by Arthur Conan Doyle
6. ‘The Witness’ (1979) by Mary Danby
7. ‘Housewarming’ (1981) by Steve Rasnic Tem
8. ‘The Boarded Window’ (1891) by Ambrose Bierce
9. ‘A Problem Called Albert’ (1973) by Roger F. Dunkley
10. ‘Pussy Cat, Pussy Cat’ (1968) by Frances Stephens

I'm sure there are plenty more I haven't read or have forgotten but these sprang to mind first, for me.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 12:22 pm:   

Drat, as soon as I posted that I remembered 'The Cats Of Ulthar' (1920) by H.P. Lovecraft!

Slot it in at No. 4 which pushes 'Pussy Cat, Pussy Cat' off the bottom. Sorry, Howard!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 12:30 pm:   

Of course the greatest horror novel featuring a cat is Stephen King's 'Pet Sematary' (1983).

One of his undeniably great horror masterpieces.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 01:09 pm:   

Top 10 horror films with a girl's name in the title:

1. 'Rosemary's Baby' (1968) by Roman Polanski
2. ‘Alice’ (1988) by Jan Svankmajer – it scares the shit out of me!
3. 'Carrie’ (1976) by Brian De Palma
4. ‘Whatever Happened To Baby Jane?’ (1962) by Robert Aldrich
5. ‘Let’s Scare Jessica To Death’ (1971) by John Hancock
6. ‘Hush... Hush, Sweet Charlotte’ (1964) by Robert Aldrich
7. ‘Whatever Happened To Aunt Alice?’ (1969) by Lee H. Katzin
8. ‘Die Screaming, Marianne’ (1971) by Pete Walker
9. ‘Lisa And The Devil’ (1972) by Mario Bava
10. ‘Emanuelle And The Last Cannibals’ (1977) by Joe D’Amato

Off the top of my head...
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.230.184
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 01:21 pm:   

Dawn of the Dead?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 01:25 pm:   

I almost laughed at that but it turned into a strangled groan halfway through, you ejit!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.59.115.60
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 01:27 pm:   

How about a list of ten days when Stevie hasn't posted a top ten list on here?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.234
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 01:43 pm:   

I owe you a pint as well, Mick.
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Seanmcd (Seanmcd)
Username: Seanmcd

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 193.113.57.161
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 02:02 pm:   

Top 10 'Stranger in a small town with a dark secret' stories. Screen or print.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 02:15 pm:   

Sorry to hear about the break-up, Stevie.

Your cat story list omitted the classic 'Cat Burglar' by Fredric Brown.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 02:27 pm:   

Top 10 weird fairground/carnival short stories. Not hard to find 10, but the challenge is to rank them correctly.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.145.32
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 03:44 pm:   

Top 10 horror comedies?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.145.32
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 03:45 pm:   

No, that was a rubbish suggestion. Top 10 horror films with a colour in the title.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 04:09 pm:   

Okay, Joel... these sprang to mind first:

1. ‘The Companion’ (1976) by Ramsey Campbell
2. ‘The Swords’ (1968) by Robert Aickman
3. ‘The Illustrated Man’ (1950) by Ray Bradbury
4. ‘Satan’s Circus’ (1932) by Lady Eleanor Smith
5. ‘King Of The Fair’ (1977) by Dorothy K. Haynes
6. ‘Mumsy And Sonny’ (1979) by Ken Johns
7. ‘The Frogwood Roundabout’ (1976) by Roy Harrison
8. ‘Other Than The Fair’ (1992) by Joel Lane
9. ‘Zelma, My Sister-In-Law’ (1977) by Dorothy K. Haynes
10. ‘The Twins’ (1971) by Harry E. Turner

And I know there must be an embarrassing wealth of stories on the subject I either haven't read or will slap my forehead when I remember.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 04:34 pm:   

"The Animal Fair," by Robert Bloch—slap!

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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.176
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 04:41 pm:   

Something wicked this way comes by Bradbury. Even bigger slap.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.176
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 04:43 pm:   

Top 10 actors to play dr who in the classic days.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 04:46 pm:   

'Something Wicked This Way Comes' is the greatest novel to feature the theme, Weber. I quite agree. But Joel asked for short stories.

I don't know that Bloch tale, Craig!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 04:51 pm:   

Proto, Top 10 horror films with a colour in the title:

1. 'Profondo Rosso' (1975) by Dario Argento
2. 'Blood And Black Lace' (1964) by Mario Bava
3. 'Horrors Of The Black Museum' (1959) by Arthur Crabtree
4. 'The Masque Of The Red Death' (1964) by Roger Corman
5. 'Black Christmas' (1974) by Bob Clark
6. 'The Black Cat' (1981) by Lucio Fulci
7. 'White Zombie' (1932) by Victor Halperin
8. 'The Black Cat' (1934) by Edgar G. Ulmer
9. 'The Lair Of The White Worm' (1988) by Ken Russell
10. 'The Green Slime' (1968) by Kinji Fukasaku

The fun in this game is spotting the ones I missed...
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 04:52 pm:   

Look for it, Stevie, it's been anthologized a few places... and since Weber mentioned Something Wicked, well, that does bring to mind "The Black Ferris" by Bradbury, another great one.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 06:37 pm:   

"Top 10 actors to play dr who in the classic days."

Weber's suggestion sounds like a joke, but it's actually possible. So if we say pre-2005 Doctor Who - go for it, Stevie ...

(I'll give you a clue - there may be one person [at least] who you haven't seen)
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.145.129.96
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 06:40 pm:   

I'm talking no one from Ecclestone onwards...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 08:17 pm:   

Top 10 pre New Who Doctors:

1. Jon Pertwee
2. Tom Baker
3. Patrick Troughton
4. William Hartnell
5. Peter Cushing
6. Peter Davison
7. Paul McGann
8. Colin Baker
9. Sylvester MCoy
10. The bloke who played William Hartnell in one of the later story lines.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 09:01 pm:   

Still mulling over the Top 10 thriller/suspense short stories, the horror comedies and the town with dark secret tales as they're all among my favourites and got lots to sift through. Watch this space.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.47
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 09:51 pm:   

Couldn't name richard hurndall? That's another pint for an incomplete list there stevie... :-)
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David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 92.22.0.148
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 10:12 pm:   

Top ten things you'd hate to have to make a top ten list of.

Slightly more seriously, top ten current actors you'd like to see play the Doctor?
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.193.194
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 10:34 pm:   

Top 10 Lovecraftian entities (only those invented by Lovecraft count) – can be named deities or types/species etc. The ranking doesn't need to reflect status or age (how long is an aeon anyway?)
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 10:54 pm:   

If there's a prize for best request so far, I reckon Joel's just won that.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.199.81
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 11:59 pm:   

Thanks Caroline! I've had years of training in Lovecraft-related pub games.

Bradbury's 'The Dwarf' is another fairground classic, perhaps the best of all. And Tom Reamy's 'The Detweiler Boy' is a murky, bitter carnival tale that casts a long shadow in modern American horror.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.60
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 12:15 am:   

Top 10 horror/weird tales - any genre, format or length - featuring ventriloquist dolls.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 12:58 am:   

Top 10 things I'd hate to have to make a Top 10 list of:

1. Tories
2. US Republicans
3. Barry Manilow songs
4. Jeffrey Archer novels
5. Tom Cruise movies
6. Jeremy Kyle guests
7. X-Factor winners
8. Big Brother winners
9. Episodes of 'Top Gear'
10. Roy "Chubby" Brown jokes
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 01:29 am:   

Top 10 current actors I'd like to see play Doctor Who with a bit more gravitas than of late:

1. John Noble
2. Benedict Cumberbatch
3. Ian McKellen
4. Stephen Rea
5. Bill Nighy
6. Bill Paterson
7. Richard E. Grant
8. Simon Baker
9. Damian Lewis
10. Andrew Lincoln
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 01:50 am:   

I think, Joel, he'd have to do the bottom seven Lovecraft deities—because what else could the top three be but (in the proper order) Cthulhu, Nyarlathotep, and Yog-Sothoth?
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.204.249
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 09:07 am:   

No no no, the top three would be night-gaunts, Richard Pickman and the folk of Kingsport. So there.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.204.249
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 09:13 am:   

Sorry Stevie, i should have left you to say that.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.204.249
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 09:15 am:   

I didn't say deities, I said entities. And i even qualified the term as not meaning the most powerful. But Craig messed it up and i responded foolishly to his provocation. It's one of those mornings (here).
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Lincoln (Lincoln_brown)
Username: Lincoln_brown

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 120.144.26.125
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 10:49 am:   

Top ten Ramsey characters - novel or short story.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 12:04 pm:   

That's four great fairground horror stories I haven't read to seek out! I believe I have the two Bradbury tales.

A couple of other great novels that used the setting to memorable effect were Sturgeon's 'The Dreaming Jewels' (1950) & Heinlein's 'Stranger In A Strange Land' (1961).

Mention of Sturgeon brings me on to one of the best episodes of 'Star Trek' yet. "Shore Leave" is a brilliant combination of sci-fi and fantasy that sees the crew beaming down to an uninhabited Garden of Eden planet for some much needed rest and relaxation, after their battle with the Romulans in "Balance Of Terror", and everyone is having a great time until McCoy has an encounter with the White Rabbit from 'Alice In Wonderland' declaring himself "Late!" before disaappearing down a hole. The rest is sheer brilliance and it was written by Theodore Sturgeon!
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 02:40 pm:   

From his own law, surely 90% of that episode is crap?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 02:45 pm:   

It's arguably the cleverest and most magical episode of Season 1 so far, Proto. As Spock insists - "There must be a logical explanation" - and indeed there is.

I've whittled the horror comedies down to a shortlist of 34 great ones. Now deciding on the Top 10 and it isn't half painful.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 03:31 pm:   

As an insight into my thought processes here is the shortlist in chrono order:

1. 'The Laurel And Hardy Murder Case' (1930) by James Parrott - half hour English language version & feature length Spanish language version
2. 'The Old Dark House' (1932) by James Whale
3. 'The Cat And The Canary' (1939) by Elliott Nugent
4. 'The Ghost Breakers' (1940) by George Marshall
5. 'Abbott And Costello Meet Frankenstein' (1948) by Charles Barton
6. 'What A Carve Up!' (1961) by Pat Jackson
7. 'Carry On Screaming' (1966) by Gerald Thomas
8. 'The Fearless Vampire Killers' (1967) by Roman Polanski
9. 'The House In Nightmare Park' (1973) by Peter Sykes
10. 'Theatre Of Blood' (1973) by Douglas Hickox
11. 'Young Frankenstein' (1974) by Mel Brooks
12. 'An American Werewolf In London' (1981) by John Landis
13. 'Basket Case' (1982) by Frank Henenlotter
14. 'Fright Night' (1985) by Tom Holland
15. 'Bad Taste' (1987) by Peter Jackson
16. 'Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn' (1987) by Sam Raimi
17. 'The Monster Squad' (1987) by Fred Dekker
18. 'Beetlejuice' (1988) by Tim Burton
19. 'Killer Klowns From Outer Space' (1988) by Stephen Chiodo
20. 'They Live' (1988) by John Carpenter
21. 'Brain Damage' (1988) by Frank Henenlotter
22. 'Society' (1989) by Brian Yuzna
23. 'Tremors' (1990) by Ron Underwood
24. 'Frankenhooker' (1990) by Frank Henenlotter
25. 'The People Under The Stairs' (1991) by Wes Craven
26. 'Braindead' (1992) by Peter Jackson
27. 'Innocent Blood' (1992) by John Landis
28. 'The Frighteners' (1996) by Peter Jackson
29. 'Scream' (1996) by Wes Craven
30. 'From Dusk Till Dawn' (1996) by Robert Rodriguez
31. 'Shaun Of The Dead' (2004) by Edgar Wright
32. 'Slither' (2006) by James Gunn
33. 'The Cabin In The Woods' (2012) by Drew Goddard
34. 'Dark Shadows' (2012) by Tim Burton

That gives some idea of how difficult a task it is... but watch this merciless space!
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 04:05 pm:   

Well pshaw! Google says, prompted, that an entity is "a thing with distinct and independent existence." If you're going to rank top 10 Lovecraftian things with distinct and independent existences, you'd have to go with my list again—especially since you explicitly state, Joel, "can be named deities...." But I should have left Stevie to say that!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 04:12 pm:   

My Top 10 Horror Comedy Films of all time:

1. 'An American Werewolf In London' (1981) by John Landis
2. 'Young Frankenstein' (1974) by Mel Brooks
3. 'The Fearless Vampire Killers' (1967) by Roman Polanski
4. 'Theatre Of Blood' (1973) by Douglas Hickox
5. 'Carry On Screaming' (1966) by Gerald Thomas
6. 'The Cat And The Canary' (1939) by Elliott Nugent
7. 'Shaun Of The Dead' (2004) by Edgar Wright
8. 'Brain Damage' (1988) by Frank Henenlotter
9. 'Braindead' (1992) by Peter Jackson
10. 'Basket Case' (1982) by Frank Henenlotter

That was seriously tough!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 05:22 pm:   

Top 10 Cthulhu Myhtos entities/creatures/deities created by H.P. Lovecraft:

1. Azathoth, The Blind Idiot God, who represents the Zero State of All Knowing Consciousness as it babbles insanely in eternal boredom.
2. Yog-Sothoth, the infinitely divided Universal Consciousness of which we are all part and which represents the quest for Intelligence and Understanding by looking in on Oneself in the form of All.
3. Cthulhu, a shit scary big tentacled amorphous thingummy that hurtled from space into the ocean depths, perhaps representing the Miltonian Fall.
4. The Deep Ones, that malign race of human-fish-frog hybrids who inhabit the shunned seaport of Innsmouth.
5. The Great Race of Yith, an incorporeal alien race that spread through the universe by possession of their victim's bodies.
6. Nyarlathotep, The Crawling Chaos, The Dark Man, alias the Devil or the corporeal manifestation of Evil.
7. Dagon, the great sea deity worshipped by the Deep Ones.
8. Joseph Curwen, the immortal demonic wizard and bane of Charles Dexter Ward's life.
9. Night-Gaunts, the stick figured, bat-winged monstrosities that haunt Lovecraft's dreams.
10. Shub-Niggurath, The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young, being Lovecraft's conception of the Mother Goddess or ruler of Nature and bestial urges.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 05:27 pm:   

To be perfectly specific, Dagon is not original to Lovecraft—try again, Stevie!
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 06:16 pm:   

What happened to the fungi from Yuggoth? I know, there wasn't mushroom in the list...
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.135.185.73
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 11:28 pm:   

With you on the Laurel & Hardy number one, Stevie, but being a pedant I feel I ought to point out that it's actually called "The Laurel-Hardy Murder Case"! Plus, number two should have been "Oliver the Eighth"
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 1.169.141.233
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 06:30 am:   

Stevie - great list of Lovecraft entities, but... no shoggoths?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 46.18.9.37
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:58 pm:   

"It's arguably the cleverest and most magical episode of Season 1 so far, Proto."

Actually, I'm half way through watching that one on the season 1 boxset. I was joking about Sturgeon's Law earlier, though.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.107.80
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 12:28 pm:   

You're slacking Stevie, did you not see my request for scary ventriloquist doll stories?

And I just noticed Meet the Feebles wasn't in your shortlist for comedy horrors...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.216
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 01:50 pm:   

I've been out all weekend, man. Sunday hangover time now. Every list has been noted and is being sifted through but I'm pretty sure I haven't read ten ventriloquist's doll stories - they're rarer than you think. To make a Top 10 I'd have to add stories about evil dolls that I suppose could be used by ventriloquists.

For the record, on TV The scariest example I've seen was an episode of 'Alfred Hitchcock Presents' called "The Glass Eye" that was based on a John Keir Cross short story and starred a very young William Shatner. There was also a more poignant fantasy based ventriloquist's doll episode based on a Ray Bradbury story - in Season 1 I think. Must check.

The obvious films that spring to mind are, of course, 'Dead Of Night' (1945) and 'Magic' (1978).
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.216
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 02:01 pm:   

'Meet The Feebles' is a hilarious dark fantasy spoof of 'The Muppet Show' and most definitely not a horror film, Weber. It's one of the best things Jackson ever did and easily his funniest film, IMHO.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 04:37 pm:   

You may want to hook up with someone—anyone!—soon, Stevie: we tribbles here at List Central seem a surly and unsatisfied lot.

(... still waiting on that Dagon substitution, by the way....)
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.107.80
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 04:45 pm:   

The Bradbury one is "And so died Riaboushinska" which was also filmed for the Ray Bradbury TV theatre. The Hitch presents version is much better.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.107.80
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 04:46 pm:   

I've not seen the film of Magic, but the book by William Goldman (of Marathon Man fame) is great.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 04:47 pm:   

Are you talking about the Dagon from mythology, Craig? Lovecraft's Dagon was an entirely different beast and, apart from the name, entirely his own creation.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 04:54 pm:   

Same name as the Biblical etc. deity, a fish god... me, I think it cancels his (His?) inclusion out.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 04:57 pm:   

Did anyone know Wikipedia has a comprehensive list of comedy horror films?!... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_comedy-horror_films
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.216
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 07:08 pm:   

Compare that list with my own and you'll spot a few omissions on their part, Craig. Some of those I've never even heard of and must seek out. Comedy horror is arguably my favourite genre of all. Hence my great love of 'The League Of Gentlemen' and 'Psychoville' on TV.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.216
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 07:10 pm:   

I disagree. Lovecraft's deity is a physically real monstrous entity. The Dagon of mythology is just that, a myth... I hope!!
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.193.224
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 08:42 pm:   

Stevie, you've identified a core aspect of the 'Cthulhu Mythos' that separates it from real religious traditions. The Mythos deities are actual creatures that happen to be worshipped by certain cults, but are aliens from other worlds. Our deities are a matter of pure faith: you can believe in them, but they're only there if you believe in them and not otherwise. The Mythos deities are there whether you believe in them or not – Johannsen doesn't have a religious 'vision', what he sees is like really there. All the religious paraphernalia of holy books and sacred rituals are valid in Lovecraft's world, but not for religious reasons. I would describe his mythology as a kind of high church atheism.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.235
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 12:19 am:   

Atheism is as much a form of faith as religious belief and just as blindly comforting, Joel. The application of logic and formulation of answering philosophies is the only truly defensible reaction to the patent truth of existence.

Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth appear in all the great imaginative philosophical traditions from Buddhism to the fiction of Gene Wolfe.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.205.150
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 01:08 am:   

Yes, but as concepts, not as real creatures. In Lovecraft's writing they are actually there. You don't need faith to believe in them, they are physically there. That's not religion at all.

And no, atheism is not a form of faith, any more than it requires an effort of faith for me to believe that there no shoggoths in my back garden or night-gaunts outside my window. I don't struggle to maintain the faith that they are not there. I don't need some catechism to keep believing they aren't there. I just don't see any reason to think they are there. Religious faith requires a huge effort and investment of energy. Atheism doesn't. When I look at the sky I don't fight to convince myself and others that God isn't looking back at me. I just see clouds or stars or both. Where is the effort of faith to convince myself that what I don't see or hear isn't actually there? Just how many mythical beings do I need to struggle to convince myself are not there when... they are not there? And how is the absence of such fantasies 'blindly comforting'?

I don''t think I'm Napoleon. Am I blindly comforted by the belief that I'm not Napoleon? Do I require a daily effort of faith to believe I'm not Napoleon? Or could it just be that actually I'm not Napoleon? How about the Borrowers, the Wombles, the Clangers? How hard am I working to convince myself they don't exist either? Am I lying awake at night struggling to disbelieve that the moon is made of green cheese? Am I blindly comforted by the protective faith that the moon isn't made of green cheese? Or is just, like, not made of green cheese at all?
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.107.80
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 01:46 am:   

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/04/the_10_creepiest_ventriloquist_tales_of_all_ time.php

That's another pint Stevie...
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 02:21 am:   

I see what you're saying, Joel—but there does seem to be something just a wee bit awkward about your comparison (when you say, farther above, ... a core aspect of the 'Cthulhu Mythos' that separates it from real religious traditions:

Take the Gospels: they are every bit as much literature, as Lovecraft's writings. There is no Cthulhu—okay, so say there's no Jesus either. But the Jesus of the Gospels was a real flesh and blood living thing on Earth (in the literature: we're comparing written-word to written-word here), a being that exacted strange powers to those around Him (e.g.: the "bleeding woman," Mark 5:25-34). Many who saw "believed" because of His miracles alone: real-world stuff, seeable stuff. Wasn't he "physically there" every bit as much as Cthulhu...? (And you can say the same about many another religion's foundational material.)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.235
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 07:42 am:   

Wow!! I've never seen 'The Twilight Zone' episode "The Dummy" and it's coming up very soon in Season 3. Can't wait!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.235
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 07:49 am:   

Scratch that pint, Weber. I can only pick my Top 10 of things I actually have experience of to be able to judge. Of that list I have only seen the Top 3 and agree with their assessment of those. The other seven have me salivating at the horror delights I still have to savour! Thanks for that.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.198.168
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 09:10 am:   

Craig, the distinction is obvious; the Gospels don't present as fiction. Also, Christ was almost certainly a real person, not one only real in the context of the Gospels.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.235
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 10:07 am:   

You two are getting bogged down in semantics. I'm talking about the physical reality of the Universe and our own tangible existence. Nothing can come from nothing ergo there must be something and that something is Infinity. Infinity dictates that atheism is an illogical reaction to consciousness. That's hard irrefutable logic. The polar opposite of belief or faith. Do you see?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 11:45 am:   

Craig, the reason I was able to predict the plot of Gene Wolfe's masterly 'The Wizard Knight' so accurately is because I recognised what he was getting at. It is not so much a fantasy novel as a statement of his own personal philosophy. The details of the names and characters are ultimately only that, details. Like us calling a dolphin a dolphin as a term of identification from our viewpoint that has no relevance to the dolphin whatsoever.

Infinity dictates... (that's my personal motto btw) that the human race, and the reasoning power we have so far evolved, are so limited in the face of the infinite that logical philosophy is the only honest way to approach the mysteries we face and can never completely answer.

Craig, do you remember the mad idiot god at the very bottom of Wolfe's world in 'The Wizard Knight' - for me the most powerful part of the novel - that was Azathoth (though he called it Niflheim or the Realm of the Most Low God) and it was also an allegorical depiction, like Lovecraft's, of the truth of Infinite Consciousness, when taken to the ultimate extreme. To survive Azathoth (Infinite Consciousness) had to go full circle by becoming Yog-Sothoth (Fragmented Consciousness)... i.e. create the illusion that All was merely One, to make sense of Consciousness, when in fact One proves the existence of All. And the snake continues to eat its tail ad infinitum. Now do you see?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 11:57 am:   

Science is trapped in a world of the corporeal while religion goes to the other extreme by creating an incorporeal reality and believing in it. Both are doomed to disappointment, over and over again, as more of true reality is revealed to us. They adapt by calling them paradigm shifts or the work of the devil. Only logical philosophy - or informed and engaged Intelligent Agnosticism - never has to shift its stance because to those who understand the Truth of the One it was always patently obvious.

The Church of Steviology is now open for business...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 12:15 pm:   

"Nothing can come from nothing"

This is an unfounded assumption. It's "common sense", which is something that the Universe has no interest in. Common sense is what we call the rules that have helped us survive evolutionarily, nothing else.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 01:17 pm:   

"Nothing can come from nothing ergo there must be something"

And you say I'm getting bogged down in semantics? That's on a par with the Jesuitical argument that God must exist because if He didn't exist he would lack the attribute of existence and thus be less than perfect, but we know that He is perfect.

Being infinite doesn't mean the universe has room for the unlimited application of foolishness. Religions don't relate to an infinity of worlds and times. They relate very concretely to our world and history. Abstract logic doesn't justify a 'Who knows?' attitude to our world and times.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 01:37 pm:   

The only thing that can come from nothing is more of nothing and as there is something (i.e. us) then nothing can only ever be an imaginary concept formulated by consciousness.

Infinity is the ultimate logical extrapolation of physical reality and to lessen it by the term "common sense" is to imply that we are all philosophically equal. Atheists - or deniers of infinity - and believers in man-made religious deities are of a less sound philosophical mind set than those who accept rigidly applied logical inference as the only valid reaction to sensory limitations that science will never be able to fully conquer.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 02:15 pm:   

Atheists are not deniers of infinity. They are deniers of the proposition that our world and history have been fashioned and continue to be driven by supernatural agents. As Einstein said: "Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity."
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.45
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 02:24 pm:   

Did I for one second say that, Joel? We could well be alone in this physical universe. I doubt it because of the mathematics involved but it is still possible. Everything we can perceive is only standing in the way of the infinite everythings we can never perceive. But that doesn't stop us inferring their reality by the application of logical reasoning.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 02:52 pm:   

An atheist categorically states that there is no "God" or all knowing supreme intelligence in the universe - that the very concept is an impossibility.

Infinity dictates that there are infinite conscious entities throughout the entirety of existence (us included) and that many of them would appear as Gods to us and fulfill all the criteria our feeble imaginations have invented for them. And, ultimately, there IS (not must be, not might be) such a thing as infinite consciousness that has had an infinity to evolve and devolve and evolve and devolve, the snake eating its tail, Yog-Sothoth breaking free of the babbling whirlwind of Azathoth, Niflheim ascending to the clarity of understanding that is Elysion and then crashing down again into its dark pit of frozen insanity, in eternal revolutions, ad infinitum...

We will not and cannot ever understand the nature of this ultimate conscious conglomeration of possibilities but, take my word for it, it is there. It cannot help but BE.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 03:27 pm:   

Hi Stevie. I'll be offline for the rest of today so will leave this here. Yes, you really did say atheists were 'deniers of infinity'. And to my mind only a minority of atheists claim the concept of a God is totally impossible and wrong. Most of them just say that they do not believe any God exists, specifically in relation to the creation and maintenance of our world, human life and society. They don't insist belief is absurd and impossible. They just do not share it. That's all. That's different from being an agnostic who half believes and half doesn't. But it's not necessarily a doctrine.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.23
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 03:58 pm:   

"The only thing that can come from nothing is more of nothing"

You've just restated this point, but provided no more support for it. I'm pushing this point because in fact cosmology there is an theory in particle physics which has been applied to cosmology which in essence states that something can indeed come from nothing.

I think you've built a house of cards, Stevie.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 04:06 pm:   

Whoa... remember when Weber wanted a ventriloquist movie list?

Stevie, I gotta absorb all that before responding rationally. But Joel....

There's just something bizarrely, er... off, is all I can say, about your initial comparison. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Religions have worshipped things that are there. You don't need faith to believe in them, they are physically there, you write at 1:00 a.m.—but you don't need faith in the Sun, the Moon, the Stars... or this statue here to Dis Pater, that one to Dagon... and these things that are there, really tangibly there, have been worshipped. There is a very real reason why one of the 10 Commandments (think about it—one of the big 10 itself!) is an admonishment against having false idols before God, worshipping them. Okay, so they don't have tentacles and they don't crush houses with their feet—they're not ambulatory. Does that alone create faith? When the Sun moves in the sky, and brings warmth and Spring and crops, isn't that enough to cull worship? It certainly qualifies as being there. And the history of the world's religions puts these "thing worshippers" to a high number, at least before our "rational age"—what, even in Lovecraft's work, sets us apart from the mad cults that worship squamous interstellar "things."
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 04:19 pm:   

Hmmm... so physicists are now saying that there are particles that can be spontaneously generated out of NOTHING? The spontaneous creation of energy and form where NOTHING previously existed? Sounds pretty screwy to me, Proto.

My understanding of NOTHING is of an imaginary state in which NO THING exists, nadda, zip, zilch, diddly-squat and not even a big fat zero to keep itself company. Believing such a state of existence is capable of producing anything, nevermind an infinite universe, is as patently absurd as believing the Earth is flat or that David Cameron really cares. I think we're falling foul of different conceptions of the word "nothing" and that we probably essentially agree on the state of existence.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 04:36 pm:   

Stevie, riffing on you: Believing, as scientists do, that something can spring out of nothing, even if it's the remotest of particles... how can they turn around, then, and say other "somethings from nothings" are not as equal as their "somethings from nothings"?

Returning to my obsession: I think, Joel, I part ways when you seem to (seem to, so maybe I'm misinterpreting) be making a religious point via Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos. You seem to be saying, "Oh see how foolish all the world's religions are! In Lovecraft's writings, they at least worship the physically-there shambling things from another dimension that are wholly alien to them—here, we're even moreso absurd and backward: we just imagine a thing from other dimensions and worship that!"

... But Lovecraft is wholly imaginary iself. And, our world is replete with peoples worshipping tangible, physical things that are in existence wholly apart from their own belief systems (the Sun, a stone statue). So, it seems that any overarching religious point being drawn from pulp fiction of the 1920's/1930's... isn't.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 04:40 pm:   

It's the pivot, Joel—maybe I thought you pivoted from Lovecraft to religion, and you in fact didn't. Perhaps I did. Hell, I'm lost myself now....
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 05:31 pm:   

Craig, but even "the remotest of particles", as you call it, is still SOMETHING. It is really there and, I still contest, cannot possibly have been spontaneously generated out of a wholly blank state of nothingness. No matter how many times you add, subtract, multiply or divide ZERO by itself you're still left with 0...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 05:50 pm:   

There could only ever have been infinite nothing or infinite something. The existence of one automatically negates the existence of the other. The fact that we exist is all the tangible proof we need to conclusively disprove the possible existence of a state of complete nothingness. It simply isn't there, folks. Everything else, however, is...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 06:38 pm:   

Good grief. Why do I always order the 16" God debate pizza? I never really enjoy it.

The scientist's something from nothing is "better" because it explains the facts without requiring a God.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.107.80
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 08:02 pm:   

Isn't one of the oldest tenets of science that Energy cannot be created or destroed, merely transformed from one state to another? Kind of turned into nonsense if suddenly matter can just pop up out of compete nothingness...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.19
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 09:22 pm:   

Not really. The total momentum of all components of a bomb is conserved at zero before and after the explosion. Each individual fragment will have a momentum, but since momentum is a vector (and can be in the + and - directions, for example) the total momentum remains what it was before the explosions (i.e., zero).

But the particle physics involved in cosmology is orders of magnitudes deeper than this.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.19
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 09:25 pm:   

Someone's going to say now this means that God and the Devil cancel each other out or something. Let there be dark.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 09:32 pm:   

*coughs*
Does anyone mind if I bring the thread back to talking about top tens again? Here's one I found linked on Facebook - bound to cause controversy (but not half as much as a religious/philosophical debate):

http://horrornovelreviews.com/2013/04/09/the-10-scariest-novels-of-all-time/
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.19
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 09:57 pm:   

I didn't find I AM LEGEND remotely scary. Did anyone else? I thought the science dispelled the atmosphere.

SALEM'S LOT scared me a lot and didn't make the list.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.26.146
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 10:53 pm:   

Sorry to hear of the split, Stevie.

My ten best proposal: ten best debut films by directors.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.25
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 11:51 pm:   

Good one. I'd include DINER, THE EVIL DEAD, DUEL (if a TV movie counts), THE DUELLISTS, WITHNAIL & I, BADLANDS. But the floor is Stevie's...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.25
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 11:57 pm:   

(I watched DARK STAR for the first time over the weekend. Talk about inauspicious debuts. It's cute, but the sound recording is so poor it should have the tagline "In Space No One Can Hear You.")
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.17.149
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 11:38 am:   

Have you a bad copy, Proto? The dialogue has always been clear when we've watched it.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 11:42 am:   

Couldn't disagree more strongly, Proto. 'Dark Star' (1974) is still one of the very best films John Carpenter ever made and is certainly his funniest. It might even make my Top 10 debuts - in all seriousness. It has long been one of my all-time favourite sci-fi comedies.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.28
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 12:04 pm:   

Well, I did a course in sound recording for film over the weekend so maybe I'm particularly sensitive to it. My copy of DARK STAR is an old DVD, but looking on the web it seems that there are better versions out there. The dialogue was muffled and (this was the part that made me think that the problem was at source) echoic.

I do like the film, though. I thought the lift shaft sequence was an inspired use of deceptive sets. Dan O'Bannon's crotchety and uncompromising presence on the Making of ALIEN documentary was fun. I trust him because he doesn't give the impression of wanting to be liked.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 03:44 pm:   

You gave me a real challenge there, Ramsey, and I've come up with a "shortlist" of 53 films!!

In chrono order this is what I'm trying to whittle down to Ten... God help me!

1. 'Strike' (1925) by Sergei Eisenstein
2. 'Un Chien Andalou' (1929) by Luis Buñuel
3. 'Journey's End' (1930) by James Whale
4. 'The Great McGinty' (1940) by Preston Sturges
5. 'The Maltese Falcon' (1941) by John Huston
6. 'Angels Of Sin' (1943) by Robert Bresson
7. 'Obsession' (1943) by Luchino Visconti
8. 'The Curse Of The Cat People' (1944) by Robert Wise
9. 'A Tree Grows In Brooklyn' (1945) by Elia Kazan
10. 'The Verdict' (1946) by Don Siegel
11. 'The Boy With Green Hair' (1948) by Joseph Losey
12. 'They Live By Night' (1948) by Nicholas Ray
13. 'Not As A Stranger' (1955) by Stanley Kramer
14. 'Twelve Angry Men' (1957) by Sidney Lumet
15. 'Lift To The Scaffold' (1958) by Louis Malle
16. 'The Left Handed Gun' (1958) by Arthur Penn
17. 'Shadows' (1959) by John Cassavetes
18. 'The Sign Of Leo' (1959) by Eric Rohmer
19. 'The 400 Blows' (1959) by François Truffaut
20. 'Breathless' (1960) by Jean-Luc Godard
21. 'The Deadly Companions' (1961) by Sam Peckinpah
22. 'Knife In The Water' (1962) by Roman Polanski
23. 'Ivan's Childhood' (1962) by Andrei Tarkovsky
24. 'This Sporting Life' (1963) by Lindsay Anderson
25. 'The Stripper' (1963) by Franklin J. Schaffner
26. 'Poor Cow' (1967) by Ken Loach
27. 'Who's That Knocking At My Door?' (1967) by Martin Scorsese
28. 'The Producers' (1968) by Mel Brooks
29. 'Signs Of Life' (1968) by Werner Herzog
30. 'Night Of The Living Dead' (1968) by George A. Romero
31. 'The Bird With The Crystal Plumage' (1969) by Dario Argento
32. 'Play Misty For Me' (1971) by Clint Eastwood
33. 'THX 1138' (1971) by George Lucas
34. 'Duel' (1971) by Steven Spielberg
35. 'Badlands' (1973) by Terrence Malick
36. 'Dark Star' (1974) by John Carpenter
37. 'The Cars That Ate Paris' (1974) by Peter Weir
38. 'Hard Times' (1975) by Walter Hill
39. 'Bugsy Malone' (1976) by Alan Parker
40. 'Eraserhead' (1977) by David Lynch
41. 'The Duellists' (1977) by Ridley Scott
42. 'Thief' (1981) by Michael Mann
43. 'The Evil Dead' (1981) by Sam Raimi
44. 'Diner' (1982) by Barry Levinson
45. 'Blood Simple' (1984) by The Coen Brothers
46. 'This Is Spinal Tap' (1984) by Rob Reiner
47. 'Bad Taste' (1987) by Peter Jackson
48. 'The Seventh Continent' (1989) by Michael Haneke
49. 'Cronos' (1993) by Guillermo Del Toro
50. 'Shallow Grave' (1994) by Danny Boyle
51. 'Reservoir Dogs' (1992) by Quentin Tarantino
52. 'Shaun Of The Dead' (2004) by Edgar Wright
53. 'London To Brighton' (2006) by Paul Andrew Williams

And that's only the great debuts I've seen ffs! Thanks, mate!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 03:50 pm:   

I'm staring that list square in the face, gritting my teeth and preparing to be as ruthless as humanly possible. But bear in mind that, whatever 10 I end up with, it is an entirely personal choice.

Watch this space...
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.114.209
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 04:31 pm:   

I'm starting to doubt that you're just one human being. You're a colony mind of some sort, or the bit of the internet that's become self-aware.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 04:39 pm:   

No, I just mentally collate things as I go along, Proto. I knew what directors I like which made it easy to home in on their debut features and select a shortlist of those I personally consider great. The above list is by no means exhaustive. It's just a personal snapshot history of my own appreciation of cinema. Any glaring omissions that can be brought to my attention will be most welcome.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 05:14 pm:   

And, mulling over Sunday's unfeasibly hilarious comedy, 'Wizard's Way' by Socrates Adams-Florou, Chris Killen & Joe Stretch, I'm going to stick my neck out and declare it a debut feature that belongs on the above list. So make that 54 great ones I've seen!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 05:21 pm:   

Make that 57... I have to include:

'The Guard' (2011) by John Michael McDonagh
'Martha, Marcy, May, Marlene' (2012) by Sean Durkin
'Good Vibrations' (2013) by Lisa Barros D'Sa & Glenn Leyburn

Right, that's it!!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.230.97
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 05:22 pm:   

You missed donnie darko...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 05:34 pm:   

My Top 10 Directorial Debuts:

1. 'The Maltese Falcon' (1941) by John Huston
2. 'Eraserhead' (1977) by David Lynch
3. 'Ivan's Childhood' (1962) by Andrei Tarkovsky
4. 'Twelve Angry Men' (1957) by Sidney Lumet
5. 'The Great McGinty' (1940) by Preston Sturges
6. 'This Sporting Life' (1963) by Lindsay Anderson
7. 'Badlands' (1973) by Terrence Malick
8. 'Cronos' (1993) by Guillermo Del Toro
9. 'Blood Simple' (1984) by The Coen Brothers
10. 'The Evil Dead' (1981) by Sam Raimi

An entirely personal choice that is bound to stir up much debate...
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 05:36 pm:   

top 10 devil children films...
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 06:36 pm:   

Sorry to be nitpicky, Stevie, but... you left out quite a biggie:

'Henry V' (1944), by Laurence Olivier.

And hell, that big list should have thrown in the other one, too: 'Henry V' (1989), by Kenneth Brannagh.

(always a critic)
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 07:01 pm:   

Odd how, after being universally rated as hopeless, The Evil Dead went through a decade or two of being 'so bad it's good' and is now somehow rated a classic. It seems that making a great film is easy: just make a really bad one and wait. But it only works for the horror genre.
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Huw (Huw)
Username: Huw

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 114.25.189.178
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 07:15 pm:   

I don't think The Evil Dead was ever seen in that light, Joel, and definitely not amongst horror film fans. It didn't go through a decade or two of being 'so bad it's good', and it was certainly never rated 'hopeless', at least not by anyone I know or in any review I've read. I recall it being pretty highly praised by many on its release, and has always had a wide base of enthusiastic fans. It didn't go from being considered 'hopeless' to being rated a classic - far from it.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 07:35 pm:   

Uh-oh—annoying me found another big one Stevie forgot—and it surely doesn't matter that this is the director's sole film:

'Night of the Hunter' (1955), by Charles Laughton.

(... meanwhile, Dagon dangles....)
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 09:09 pm:   

Craig has made me think of another one - how about top 10 films directed by someone who has only ever directed one film ..?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 09:18 pm:   

I remember even Barry Norman grudgingly admiring the directorial technique of 'The Evil Dead' when he reviewed it at the time. It's always been considered a stunningly assured debut and still scares the shit out of me. Raimi hadn't bettered it until this years's 'Oz The Great And Powerful', IMO.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.8
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 09:59 pm:   

Infantile as some of THE EVIL DEAD is, its influence on cinematic vocabulary of the last couple of decades is probably indisputable. I think it's genuinely a notable step in the development of the medium.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.8
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 10:01 pm:   

I've just finished watching Raimi's FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME, which makes even CRIMEWAVE looks like a masterpiece. A film so indescribably awful my jaw actually did drop at some of the lines in the script.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.204.83
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 10:14 pm:   

Craig, just caught up with your point from yesterday. When I was talking about Lovecraft I was talking about his atheism, not mine. It's very bad hermeneutics to base your interpretation of a writer on what you believe about the world. Interpreting Lovecraft's worldview as atheist is, I would have thought, as inevitable as interpreting Russell Kirk's as Christian.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 11:09 pm:   

That's cool, Joel—I was reading something into what you wrote that wasn't there. Lovecraft was clearly atheist to me, too, of course, and his fiction represents less a statement, than an "entertainment" (as Graham Greene might put it) reflecting same.

Stevie, Gene Wolfe might be using all the trappings of "gnosticism" and so on, to his entertainments, too. But I believe he's a practicing and believing Roman Catholic. Not that that has anything to do with anything either, though.... Btw: How did I miss this novel by him, only a couple of years old, The Sorcerer's House? (2011): http://www.amazon.com/Sorcerers-House-Gene-Wolfe/dp/0765324598/ref=sr_1_12?s=boo ks&ie=UTF8&qid=1366146353&sr=1-12&keywords=gene+wolfe You've not read this, right? The synopsis makes it sound as wild as that last one of his! (An Evil Guest)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 11:11 pm:   

Kenneth Branagh can't direct for toffee, Craig!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 11:26 pm:   

I see Wolfe's approach to his Catholicism in his fiction as very much akin to Graham Greene's. They both believe in the central tenets of true Christianity but question the ritualisation and rigid dogma of the Church from within and seem wracked with frequent crises of faith as a result. Greene's 'The Heart Of The Matter' is one of the toughest criticisms of Catholic dogma I have read.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 06:34 am:   

... er, yeah, you're right about Branagh, Stevie. I rank his Frankenstein as one of the worst films ever made. I shouldn't have brought him up.

Okay: top Ten Graham Greene "fictions"?... (I.e., putting novels up against short-stories as individual creations, then ranking them?...)
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.13.55.199
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 11:35 am:   

"Odd how, after being universally rated as hopeless, The Evil Dead went through a decade or two of being 'so bad it's good' and is now somehow rated a classic. It seems that making a great film is easy: just make a really bad one and wait. But it only works for the horror genre."

You mustn't think me rude, Joel, but you do seem a bit ill-informed about horror films. I praised the film with great enthusiasm at the very outset. So did Steve King. So did Kim Newman, and that's just three of us.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.13.55.199
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 12:47 pm:   

Again, Wikipedia is pretty reliable on Evil Dead. Look at the account of the critical reception of the film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evil_Dead
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 01:38 pm:   

Fair comment. That was early in my fandom days, I had no interest in genre films, and I mainly recall Dave Reeder in the BFS Bulletin describing the film as an amateurish joke that would only amuse diehard fans. I think I should leave genre films alone as relatively few of them impress me and those I do like tend to be ones whose critical reception is mixed (e.g. The Blair Witch Project), while some universally praised 'classics' appear to me to have been made by and for people without much intelligence.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 01:42 pm:   

Can I add also, and this is in no way a plea for sympathy, that health issues are making me too bad-tempered to visit a forum frequented by people who deserve fairer treatment. I'll be back in due course. Stevie, please go on sharing your Conan reading adventures, they're rescuing my morale.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 02:18 pm:   

Get better, Joel. I command it.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.123.8.28
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 03:43 pm:   

I remember seeing Evil Dead at the local cinema and being hugely disappointed. I have it on the back of a double feature dvd and I never even wanted to see it again. Of course, on side one there's The Brood . . .
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 04:00 pm:   

You are far too harsh on yourself, Joel. I love the banter with you and have never felt you were being unfair to any of us. A tad over serious sometimes - especially in your "appreciation" of cult classic TV and movies - but that is more than leavened by your wit, humanity and often humbling intelligence. If you could approach more things in life with the acceptance of their flaws as what makes them oft times beautiful, the way you do with Lovecraft & Howard, you wouldn't have to beat yourself up so often.

Enough of the melodramatics. You're one of the main reasons I even post on this site ffs!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.89
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 11:25 pm:   

Top 10 Stephen King books about writers.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.60.39
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 07:02 am:   

Top 10 Stephen King books which qualify as 'hefty tomes'.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 11:48 am:   

My Top 10 Evil Children Films:

1. The Exorcist (1973) by William Friedkin
2. The Innocents (1961) by Jack Clayton
3. Village Of The Damned (1960) by Wolf Rilla - both featuring creepy young Martin Stephens. Wonder what happened to him?
4. The Omen (1976) by Richard Donner
5. Kill, Baby, Kill (1966) by Mario Bava
6. The Bad Seed (1956) by Mervyn LeRoy
7. The Brood (1979) by David Cronenberg
8. The Children's Hour (1961) by William Wyler
9. Children Of The Damned (1963) by Tony Leader
10. Our Mother's House (1967) by Jack Clayton
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.157
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 04:05 pm:   

Caroline, I can only think of two great films by a one-off director, both great actors, 'The Night Of The Hunter' (1955) by Charles Laughton and 'One-Eyed Jacks' (1961) by Marlon Brando. I'm sure there are probably a few others but I don't think I've seen them. Ten can be a surprisingly large number at times!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 05:43 pm:   

So that's a pint for Caroline. 3 for me and one for Mick.
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 07:08 pm:   

Stevie - I was thinking of Carnival of Souls, dir. Herk Harvey - didn't think of the other two. I don't know of any others either.

Don't worry about the pint - I can't drink beer!
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.135.99.215
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 07:21 pm:   

I'll have Caroline's!
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 07:52 pm:   

Yes, go on - Mick can have my pint.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.135.99.215
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 10:05 pm:   

Cheers! Hic...
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 07:51 am:   

I can't think of any other "one-offs" either, but trying to did bring to mind another directorial debut that—to me at least—deserves at the very least an honorable mention; being not only one of my big guilty pleasures, but surely one of the strangest and still most innovative films yet in film history....

'Lady in the Lake' (1947), by Robert Montgomery.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.157
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 10:07 am:   

Feck sake! I'm going to be out a fortune at this rate!
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 87.114.23.110
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 07:36 pm:   

The only great one-time director film I have seen, other than The Night Of The Hunter, is Tim Roth's The War Zone.
Also, I think it's possibly the only thing Ray Winston's ever done where he's impressed me.
Well, perhaps Nil By Mouth, as well. Hang on, wasn't that a one-time director film, too?
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.230.195
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2013 - 10:09 am:   

Top 10 actors to play James Bond.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.37
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2013 - 07:14 pm:   

Right, now I have to make a fecking list of the lists I have to make to avoid turning the RCMB into a private branch of Alcoholics Anonymous ffs. They're all being worked on in my free moments but as I'm currently dating like I don't know what they are proving few and far between. Apart from when I'm in work of course!
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Saturday, April 20, 2013 - 07:52 pm:   

Dating? Sounds promising. Don't worry about us - you concentrate on your love life.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.37
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 01:43 am:   

Guess what, people. We're back together. Still working on those lists!
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.194.114
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 12:39 pm:   

Great news, Stevie. The lists can wait.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.161.12.218
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 01:11 pm:   

Excellent news, Stevie!
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.7
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 01:19 pm:   

Anyone can get a woman.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/08/article-1345393-0CAF5F53000005DC-257_4 68x646.jpg
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.7
Posted on Sunday, April 21, 2013 - 01:19 pm:   

It's not right, is it?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 22, 2013 - 03:47 pm:   

That is one of the creepiest things I have ever seen. Truly shuddersome on some kind of indefinable deep instinctive level.

Anyone who thinks the Tory Party is not made up of demons in human form need only look into those hideous eyes. I know what my nightmares will be about tonight! Harmless eccentric my arse!!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 22, 2013 - 03:51 pm:   

Thanks. Early days and taking it slow but we're together nearly a year now and got through some wild times together. Maybe we're just addicted to the rush of making up... who knows?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 04:57 pm:   

Top 10 Actors to have played James Bond:

1. Sean Connery
2. Daniel Craig
3. Roger Moore
4. George Lazenby
5. Pierce Brosnan
6. Timothy Dalton
7. David Niven
8. Barry Nelson
9. Bob Holness
10. ???

I can only think of those 9 although Woody Allen played his nephew, "Little Jimmy Bond", in the 1967 spoof of 'Casino Royale'. Explain, Weber.

I'll make my way through the remaining lists at my leisure.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 05:11 pm:   

http://www.007james.com/articles/who_played_james_bond.php

A few more in there. I was thinking of Peter sellers and Woody Allen personally when I posed the question. Bob Simmons is a cracking answer though...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 05:14 pm:   

Top 10 Stephen King books which qualify as "hefty tomes" (i.e. 420 pages or more) that I have read:

1. The Stand (1978) - his masterpiece, imo.
2. The Shining (1977) - his horror masterpiece, imo.
3. Salem's Lot (1975)
4. Christine (1983)
5. It (1986)
6. The Dead Zone (1979)
7. Firestarter (1980)
8. The Tommyknockers (1987)
9. The Talisman (1984) - with Peter Straub
10. The Dark Half (1989)

One of these years I'll get round to a chrono read of all the later stuff I missed - i.e. everything from 'Needful Things' (1991) on - bar 'Gerald's Game' (1992), 'From A Buick 8' (2002) - both fun to read but far from great - and the later short story collections, which have got less consistently impressive as time has gone on, imo.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 05:29 pm:   

The only Stephen King novels I have read that feature writer protagonists are:

1. The Shining (1977)
2. Misery (1987)
3. The Tommyknockers (1987)
4. The Dark Half (1989)

Not counting short stories that's your lot...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 05:39 pm:   

For Craig, my Top 10 Graham Greene novels, of those I have read:

1. Brighton Rock (1938)
2. The Heart Of The Matter (1948)
3. The Power And The Glory (1940)
4. The Human Factor (1978)
5. The End Of The Affair (1951)
6. A Burnt Out Case (1960)
7. A Gun For Sale (1936)
8. The Ministry Of Fear (1943)
9. Stamboul Train (1932)
10. The Man Within (1929)

And that's actually all the Greene novels I have read to date. Only another 16 to go plus all the short stories (of which I have only read a smattering but never without being blown away by the man's casual genius).
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 08:52 pm:   

Stevie - stop worrying about making lists for us and go and be nice to your good lady. That's an order!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.106.241
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 09:00 pm:   

No - ignore her. Write more lists!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 212.183.128.109
Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 09:25 pm:   

I like writing lists. They kill the day in work. ;-)
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 02:44 am:   

Cool Greene list, Stevie! I've read three of the top five!

Are you a fan of classic Italian(-only! no knock-offs!) giallos?... I'd ask you to rate the top 10 best according to you, if you've seen enough (and even like them).
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.239.243.206
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 09:59 am:   

Off the top of my head, without checking my shelves, the central character in Salem's Lot is a writer returning to his childhood home town, same goes for It. The Body - aka stand by me - is a writer's memoir. I'm sure there's more.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.230.227
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 10:24 am:   

The father in Cujo writes advertising copy for a living and is struggling to write a novel.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 11:12 am:   

Then I owe you another pint, Weber, as I've read both of them. Do we not think it perhaps a sign of a lack of originality that King so frequently has to use writers as his protagonists?

King is a great writer but the one major flaw in his talent is his constant rehashing of old ideas. Always brilliantly done, of course, but when the final history of horror fiction is come to be writ he has no chance of being seen as a great innovator - like Poe, Lovecraft, Aickman or Ramsey - rather than a great entertainer.

Has there even been a truly original horror idea from the pen of Stephen King? Discuss.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.206
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 04:04 pm:   

The storyline of Thinner is original. I can't think of anything else where losing weight is the key to the horror.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 04:09 pm:   

The Running Man and The Long walk are the earliest examples I can think of of the Battle royale/series 7/ Hunger games sub genre
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 04:11 pm:   

I'm struggling to think of a precursor to Carrie as well...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 05:26 pm:   

I saw 'Thinner' (1984) as basically a homage to Richard Matheson and the plot as a clever rejigging of his 'The Shrinking Man' (1956) - which is another incredible novel I read last year. Incidentally, 'Thinner' is one of my favourite Stephen King horror novels and all the more effective for being so short and sweet... in the Matheson tradition. It is easily the best thing he wrote under the Richard Bachman pseudonym.

As for the earliest example of the 'Battle Royale' theme, that was by my favourite genre author, Robert A. Heinlein, who invented the form in his astonishingly visceral and entertaining, 'Tunnel In The Sky' (1955), written as a response to William Golding's 'Lord Of The Flies' (1954).

'Carrie' (1974) is probably King's most groundbreaking horror novel but was still basically a gothicising of the psychic weirdo outsider theme that runs throughout the sci-fi genre from the 1930s on. Most memorable example is probably Theodore Sturgeon's 'More Than Human' (1953)... which was the inspiration for Marvel's X-Men, imo.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 08:04 pm:   

>>>when the final history of horror fiction is come to be writ he has no chance of being seen as a great innovator - like Poe, Lovecraft, Aickman or Ramsey - rather than a great entertainer

Give over. He's the great chronicler of modern, micro Americana, when the US has been stronger and more dominant than any other country in the world. No mean achievement.

Original King? CELL was far more original as a zombie novel than the several billion that come out each year. I'm not sure many could have written a 400-page book about one woman in a room (GERALD'S GAME). There are others. But King's genius lies in areas that don't require originality: character, story, sense of place. So it's a bit of a pointless issue for me.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 12:02 pm:   

I'm increasingly tempted to take another crack at King's later novels. The urge does take me every few years. If so, 'Needful Things' (1991), the first I didn't read as soon as it was published, will be my starting point.

I am a fan but just think he has a habit of repeating himself and over-expanding simple story ideas into behemothic tomes when they would have worked better as short incisive novels, like 'Pet Sematary' (1983) or 'Thinner' (1984) - two of his most effective horror novels, imo.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.230.163
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 01:12 pm:   

Needful things is a cracking book. A tribute to something wicked this way comes and a brilliant end to his Castle Rock stories.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 02:05 pm:   

I loved NT, but know folk (e.g. Conrad Williams) who hated it.

I agree that some King books are way too long.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 02:07 pm:   

Oh yeah, the top ten list. Name your top ten Beethoven symphonies.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 03:25 pm:   

(Joke.)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 04:52 pm:   

Beethoven's symphonies, and I have them all on CD, ranked in order would be:

1. Symphony No. 6 "Pastorale" (1808)
2. Symphony No. 9 "Chorale" (1824)
3. Symphony No. 3 "Eroica" (1805)
4. Symphony No. 7 (1813)
5. Symphony No. 4 (1806)
6. Symphony No. 5 (1808)
7. Symphony No. 8 (1814)
8. Symphony No. 2 (1803)
9. Symphony No. 1 (1800)
10. Not a symphony, rather a ballet, but, imo, his most impressively symphonic other work; 'The Creatures Of Prometheus' (1801)
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 06:29 pm:   

You'd put the 5th after the 4th? Controversial!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 06:31 pm:   

You know, many - including George Bernard Shaw - reckon the 8th is one of his finest. Never seen that myself.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 06:32 pm:   

Incidentally, do you know his late overture "Consecration of the House"? I love that piece.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 06:34 pm:   

And there is a fragment of a 10th symphony, completed by some Scottish guy, based on notes left by Beethoven in his famous sketchbooks.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 06:42 pm:   

I know the 9th & 5th are his most famous symphonies but, soul-shiveringly stirring as they are, I actually slightly prefer Beethoven's more gently beautiful and melodic works, which is why the "Pastorale" is my favourite.

I don't know "Consecration Of The House", no. I also have the Triple Concerto and complete collection of the String Quartets on CD but that's it.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 06:51 pm:   

Ooh, you're missing a lot of treats. The late quartets, the piano sonatas, "Leonora" overture number 3 (epic), the piano concerti, Missa Solemnis, grosse fugue, etc.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 07:51 pm:   

My favorite Beethoven work, is the 5th Piano Concerto ("Emperor").

Okay, here's a list Stevie...

The worst films made from a Stephen King work (novel/short-story) in descending order (10 being worst of the worst).
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 11:29 am:   

Checked my CD collection and the only other Beethoven work I have is the Piano Concerto in D. I have all the String Quartets, including the quite orgasmic later ones, when the poor man was composing the music of the angels while stone deaf.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 01:22 pm:   

Craig, these are the first ten evil/man-eating plant short stories I could think of:

1. "The Scarlet Citadel" (1933) by Robert E. Howard - only one element of the story but an unforgettable one!
2. "Green Thoughts" (1931) by John Collier - the story that inspired 'The Little Shop Of Horrors', uncredited.
3. "Green Fingers" (1968) by R.C. Cook - the weirdest "plant" story ever written, imo.
4. "Meshes Of Doom" (1933) by Neville Kilvington
5. "The Puffball Menace" (1933) by John Wyndham - precursor of the most famous man-eating plant creation of them all.
6. "Amanda Excrescens" (1973) by Conrad Hill
7. "Dr Fawcett's Experiment" (1933) by Raymond Ferrers Broad
8. "The Victorian Conservatory" (1978) by Alan Temperley
9. "The Green Umbilical Cord" (1967) by Jamie McArdwell
10. "Firstborn" (1981) by David Campton

And I'm sure there are many more I haven't read...

As for novels; John Wyndham's 'The Day Of The Triffids' (1951), the pod people of Jack Finney's 'Invasion Of The Body Snatchers' (1955) and the alien fungus of Frank Herbert's 'The Santaroga Barrier' (1968) rule supreme, in my experience (ime).
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 01:31 pm:   

Had a Beethoven marathon in bed last night. The 6th "Pastorale" Symphony, 'The Creatures Of Prometheus', The Triple Concerto & Piano Concerto in D followed by the final two volumes of his String Quartets. Quite orgasmic!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.76
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 03:48 pm:   

Orgasmic? Were you listening to the Erotica symphony?
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 04:03 pm:   

(I wonder—is it hard to get orgasmic over Schubert's Unfinished Symphony...?)

Wow, I'd have thought a 10-best man-eating plant short-stories list impossible—ha! Proved wrong again! (And I'd a thought you'd have to resort to novels for fill-ins, too, if you even did one.)
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 05:05 pm:   

The 10 worst Stephen King film adaptations that I have sat through:

10. 'The Night Flier' (1997) by Mark Pavia - not total shit and quite scary in parts but suffers from an uneven tone and poor effects.
9. 'Cat's Eye' (1985) by Lewis Teague - the last story in this portmanteau is quite good, the rest is just boring.
8. 'Graveyard Shift' (1990) by Ralph S. Singleton - one for a carry-out and the mates round.
7. 'The Mangler' (1995) by Tobe Hooper - as above.
6. 'Riding The Bullet' (2004) by Mick Garris - insipid.
5. 'The Running Man' (1987) by Paul Michael Glaser - a travesty of the story.
4. 'Children Of The Corn' (1984) by Fritz Kiersch - a maddening hatchet job on his very best short story, imo.
3. 'Sometimes They Come Back' (1991) by Tom McLoughlin - crap.
2. 'Sleepwalkers' (1992) by Mick Garris - bollocks.
1. 'Maximum Overdrive' (1986) by Stephen King - one of the worst films I have ever seen. What the fuck was he thinking of!!

Before anyone mentions 'Children Of The Corn VIII' or 'Sometimes They Come Back... Yet Fucking Again... The Bastards!" - I don't watch sequels to shit originals!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 05:13 pm:   

And if we're talking TV adaptations only one of them is worth mentioning. You all know the one. Its director's masterpiece and so good it even got a cinema release.

The rest, including 'It', were uninspired and misguided watered down versions of the written originals, imho.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 05:14 pm:   

Maximum overdrive wasn't an adaptation, or Sleepwalkers if I'm not completely mistaken. weren't they original scripts King wrote?

I think you're a bit unfair on Cat's eye - the quitters inc is a fine segment. where's Lawnmower man? A film so shit King ordered his name be taken off the credits as it only used one line out of his short story and none of the ideas...

And have you seen the remake of Children of the Corn - with (IIRC) Cody from Dexter as the leader of the children?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 05:29 pm:   

You're right, man. I forgot the truly abysmal 'The Lawnmower Man' (1992) by Brett Leonard. It goes in at No. 3 pushing 'The Night Flier' out of the ten worst. Any more?

'Maximum Overdrive' was based on the memorable short story "Trucks" from 'Night Shift' (I believe) - still far and away King's best collection. If he wrote the original screenplay it still makes it a film based on his work, imo. Did anyone see that awful mini-series he did, 'Rose Red' (2002). Jesus God, but that stank to high heaven!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 05:42 pm:   

Silver Bullet?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 06:01 pm:   

But, in case this starts to look like a Stephen King hatchet job, here are the 10 best film adaptations of his work, imo:

1. 'The Shining' (1980) by Stanley Kubrick
2. 'Salem's Lot' (1979) by Tobe Hooper
3. 'Carrie' (1976) by Brian De Palma
4. 'The Shawshank Redemption' (1994) by Frank Darabont
5. 'The Dead Zone' (1983) by David Cronenberg
6. 'Misery' (1990) by Rob Reiner
7. 'Creepshow' (1982) by George A. Romero
8. 'Stand By Me' (1986) by Rob Reiner
9. '1408' (2007) by Mikael Håfström
10. 'Christine' (1983) by John Carpenter

I have yet to see Darabont's adaptations of 'The Green Mile' or 'The Mist'.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 06:03 pm:   

I quite enjoyed 'Silver Bullet' to be honest, Weber! It's an oddly likeable little movie.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 06:07 pm:   

I'll tell you one King adaptation that is grossly underrated, imo, and just missed out on that Top 10 list; 'Dreamcatcher' (2003) by Lawrence Kasdan. I found it a scary and entertaining sci-fi/horror alien invasion movie with truly memorable monsters.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.239.242.221
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 07:17 pm:   

No Apt Pupil in your 10 best?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 12:16 am:   

'Apt Pupil' is one of the better King adaptations but it's not one of his stories I'm particularly fond of. Always found it a bit far-fetched and overly melodramatic.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 02:15 am:   

I'm on par with most of your assessments, Stevie; I'd move 'Misery' up and I'd not have included '1408' on the list—that story rocks... up until we actually enter the room (in both the story and the film).

Curious about a phrase you use: "one for a carry-out and the mates round." I can guess this means it wasn't good... but I've no idea what—what's being said here?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.138.83
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 02:30 am:   

Rose Red is good.

So is Cat's Eye.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 02:56 am:   

... And actually too, Gary, Stevie left off one of the tensest to this day (and a fine study in compactness in film, imho): 'Cujo' (1983).
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 07:14 am:   

'Cujo' is a decent little thriller. Also one of the better adaptations.

I think '1408' is easily King's best recent horror story and rather a nightmarish twist on the old haunted room yarn. He does get the odd new idea. I thought the film was flawed but still excellent horror entertainment with brains and two great performances.

I really must catch up with 'The Mist'.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 07:18 am:   

"One for a carry-out and the mates round" means the film is so enjoyably bad it's a great one to watch while getting drunk on cans of beer with a few like-minded friends in. One of those films.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.205.56
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 09:16 am:   

I thought 'Graveyard Shift' was pretty good actually – more a King tribute/parody than an adaptation, as the short story is to the film what a strand of mollusc DNA on a tombstone is to a shoggoth. Invite your mates round and they'll pick holes in it, jumping on continuity errors and not even watching the best bits. It's one for a quiet night when you have a bad cold, can't go out, can't drink because you won't sleep, and need something to restore your sense of fun. It is, in short, emergency hokum so restorative it should be available on prescription.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.166.230
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   

I find CUJO harrowing. THE MIST, too. King was mean in those days. I'm hoping DR SLEEP is mean.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 12:49 pm:   

I think you've identified one of the elements I found increasingly frustrating in King's writing, Gary. As his fame grew exponentially he seemed to mellow and a sickly strand of mom's apple pie American sentimentality crept into his fiction that was never there in the early days. I like him mean too!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.166.230
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 05:31 pm:   

Yeah, especially when he writes about marriages. People actually call each other, "Honey-pie." !!!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 05:32 pm:   

Hope you're feeling better, Joel.

'Graveyard Shift' is a hoot, I agree. Brad Dourif's manic performance made the movie seem better than it had any right to be, imo.
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 31.185.239.123
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 06:45 pm:   

I watched Frank Darabont's The Woman in the Room on YouTube recently and thought it was superb.
It'd certainly be straight in to my Top 10 King adaptations.
I also think that Creepshow 2 is a better film than the first!
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 06:50 pm:   

Wasn't describing me at the present moment, Stevie. But thanks!
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 31.185.239.123
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 06:56 pm:   

Okay, here's a Top 10 list for you.
Discounting Freddie Vs Jason (2003) and the 2009 remake, list the ten Friday the 13th films in order of quality (or lack of) with 1 being the "best".
I ask because I attempted a marathon viewing of all of the films last weekend but had to stop after part three as I'd had more than enough. I then watched part 4 (The Final Chapter on Monday and that was hard work.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 81.149.182.62
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 07:26 pm:   

I have seen them all, Patrick, in my misspent youth, and have tried vainly to forget the vast majority ever since. Watch this space...
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 31.185.239.123
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 07:57 pm:   

I'll be truly amazed if you can remember, and differentiate between, them all in retrospect, Stevie. Of the mere three I watched on Friday, I had trouble enough remembering one from the other just a few days later.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Tuesday, April 30, 2013 - 09:46 pm:   

The first two are great films and I have a certain fondness for the third, shit as it is, as I remember going to see it in 3D at the time it was released. The first 3D film I ever saw. Then, as a wide eyed teenager, it was fun but now I find 3D cinema, for the most part, to be an abomination. Cinema is a 2D medium. End of story.
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 82.153.251.65
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 10:56 am:   

I thought that the second film was a big strange mess.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 11:45 am:   

The 'Friday The 13th' films ranked:

1. 'Friday The 13th' (1980) by Sean S. Cunningham - seminal slasher with a half decent whodunit style plot inspired by Mario Bava's 'A Bay Of Blood' (1971).
2. 'Friday The 13th Part II' (1981) by Steve Miner - introduces hockey masked Jason Voorhees, say what you like but he is one of horror cinema's great monsters.
3. 'Friday The 13th Part V : A New Beginning' (1985) by Danny Steinmann - returns to the whodunit format of the first film but other than that the usual tosh.
4. 'Friday The 13th Part III' (1982) by Steve Miner - made in 3D but apart from that a redundant retread of Part II.
5. 'Jason X' (2002) by James Isaac - Jason goes into space, mildly diverting sci-fi/horror nonsense.
6. 'Jason Goes To Hell : The Final Friday' (1993) by Adam Marcus - faintly interesting for introducing a new possession element into the franchise, but still rubbish.
7. 'Friday The 13th Part VII : The New Blood' (1988) by John Carl Buechler - has more of a supernatural element but otherwise...
8. 'Friday The 13th Part IV : The Final Chapter' (1984) by Joseph Zito - if only...
9. 'Friday The 13th Part VI : Jason Lives' (1986) by Tom McLoughlin - you don't say...
10. 'Friday The 13th Part VIII : Jason Takes Manhattan' (1989) by Rob Hedden - it's a close call but this is the lowest point of the franchise, imo.

'Freddy Vs Jason' (2003) by Ronny Yu is a mindlessly entertaining but outrageously cynical spoof/tribute that would have been better had they gone all out for laughs. In the above list it would come in 3rd place.

As for the 2009 remake... I hate them and wouldn't watch it.

Now someone's going to ask me to rank the bloody 'Halloween' franchise! Again, only the first two, John Carpenter's untouchable 'Halloween' (1978) & the surprisingly decent sequel 'Halloween II' (1981) by Rick Rosenthal, are any good.

And as for Freddy... only Wes Craven's original 'A Nightmare On Elm Street' (1984) should ever have been made.

Why did I enjoy that?!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 11:58 am:   

Only five of the above films are worth owning on DVD, as I do. Ranked:

1. 'Halloween' (1978) by John Carpenter
2. 'A Nightmare On Elm Street' (1984) by Wes Craven
3. 'Friday The 13th' (1980) by Sean S. Cunningham
4. 'Friday The 13th Part II' (1981) by Steve Miner
5. 'Halloween II' (1981) by Rick Rosenthal
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.60.39
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 12:01 pm:   

To this day I haven't seen a single Friday the Thirteenth film. I rather liked Graveyard Shift, though. That endless series of cellars beneath cellars takes on Lovecraftian proportions towards the end. As a whole the mill was well done imho, much the way I imagined it while reading King's short story.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   

For me, the only such franchises that actually work, and are worth owning as guilty pleasures, are those made with tongue firmly in cheek from the very start. I have a lot of time for the outrageously stupid 'Critters' and 'Leprechaun' series because they make me laugh.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 12:12 pm:   

I haven't seen it in about 20 years, Hubert, and remember enjoying it for all the wrong reasons. I was expecting a serious, scary adaptation of the short story - one of King's best. A reappraisal may be due.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.13.85.90
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 01:29 pm:   

On the Halloweens, I did like the third one.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 80.76.195.47
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 02:26 pm:   

Even though it was written by Nigel Kneale I really didn't like it, Ramsey. His one flop that I have seen. It would have been better if made in Britain and not shoehorned into the 'Halloween' franchise, where it clearly didn't belong, IMO. Haven't seen it in nearly 30 years, mind you.
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 82.153.251.65
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 03:04 pm:   

I remember being rather fond of Amityville II: The Possession when I saw it years ago. Having not seen it since I don't know if I'd still feel quite the same way.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 03:21 pm:   

I've just watched a Zebra Spider jerk across the top of my computer monitor. My favourite spider. I just love the way they move. Like a stop motion animated monster come to life. I can feel a Top 10 spiders list coming on...

Don't worry I got him to jump into my hand and put the wee bugger out the window.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 04:02 pm:   

Ah, but without all of those films you dislike, Stevie... you could never have a Cabin in the Woods.

I loved them all as guilty pleasures, though I doubt I could sit through most of them today, myself. Except the recent remakes, when Hollywood (mainly, Michael Bay) was in a crazy to redo them, adrenalized versions... I alone here, it appears, was a fan of this seemingly short-lived, and now-gone, trend.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.230.133
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 04:08 pm:   

The Halloween franchise was never conceived as the Michael Myers franchise. It was supposed to be unconnected horror stories linked to halloween - in the same way the House movies were unconnected stories with a common central theme. Halloween 3 was an attempt to return to the original concept of the franchise.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 04:15 pm:   

My Top 10 spiders:

1. Zebra spider {Salticus scenicus}

2. Common garden spider {Araneus diadematus} - Boris was my first pet spider and grew to be about the size of my thumb!

3. Giant house spider {Tegenaria gigantea}

4. Domestic house spider {Tegenaria domestica}

5. Wolf spider {Pardosa amentata} - they move like greased lightning and are very hard to catch.

6. The black and white spider with the unkempt hanging sheet webs that used to live in the fir trees up my back garden as a child... I've never been able to identify the species.

All the above species are those that I was familiar with as a child and that made me fall in love with the creatures. Many's the one was kept as a secret pet in my bedroom. Happy days.

7. Chilean rose tarantula {Grammostola rosea} - Rosie was my first bought spider pet and lived for years, I still miss her.

7. Social spider {Anelosimus eximius} - a species I'll never forget being introduced to by David Attenborough on telly. These terrifying creatures live in social colonies of up to 50,000 individuals, with cities made out of webbing, and co-operate to bring down and consume much larger prey than any other spider. They are the arachnid equivalent of ants or human beings and one of my dreams would be to raise a colony in captivity and study them. They inspired the John Wyndham novel, 'Web' (published posthumously in 1979), and I've never read it.

8. Baboon spider {Harpactira gigas} - I've never seen one but will be forever indebted to this South African species for biting J.R.R. Tolkien as a child, mentally and physically scarring him for life, and inspiring the scariest monsters in 'The Hobbit' & 'The Lord Of The Rings'.

10. Funnel web spider {Atrax robustus} - one of the scariest moments of my life was when hiring a "holiday cabin" in the Blue Mountains of Australia, on my one trip there about 10 years ago. Before we were allowed to unpack the local guide had to go round the place looking for "unwelcome visitors" and found one of these beasts hiding in the toilet. There followed a pitch battle and much screaming as the thing raced round the place, forelegs raised, fish-hook like fangs fully extended, jumping through the air at anything that moved, before the guy was able to clobber it with a shoe. I did not mourn its passing and hardly slept a wink the whole weekend we were there. That pitch black, intelligent and terrifyingly fast monstrosity is the single scariest thing I ever came into close proximity with. It was one of the highlights of the trip!!

My least favourite spider, because they are wholly unnatural and scare the shit out of me, is the Harvest spider {Opilio parietinus}. Tobe Hooper clearly thought so too as they provided one of the most subtly haunting moments in 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre' (1974). They really give me the creeps.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 05:14 pm:   

I just identified No. 6 as the Tent web spider {Cyrtophora citricola}. Feels like being introduced to an old friend for the first time!
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 06:07 pm:   

Yes, I'm bored...
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David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 92.22.78.49
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 07:49 pm:   

I watched Jason X again recently. It took me three evening because I could only manage half an hour at a time. It was so much...duller than I remembered. The Crystal Lake holodeck gag was inspired but beyond that it was just awful.

The idea of an unstoppable, unkillable juggernaut serial killer could be absolutely terrifying but it's so watered down now it would take something really special to make it work again.
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David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 92.22.78.49
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 07:58 pm:   

I had this mad idea for an Elm Street sequel once in which Nancy is in a coma, trapped in a peaceful dreamworld garden that Krueger gradually works his way into; plants begin to die, strange mutant red and green insects appear and so on.

So Nancy flees her own dreamworld and ends up pursued by Krueger through the dead dreams of the collective human conciousness, getting further away from humanity and into increasingly bizarre and ruined alien landscapes. Then, finally, just as he's caught up with her, the doctors turns off her life support and she flickers out of existence. And Freddy is lost in the barren outer reaches of the dream world forever.

It was all very vivid in my head.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 81.149.182.62
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 08:59 pm:   

And would have been infinitely (literally) better than any of the sequels to what should have been an inspired one-off. Freddy was always too much the jester to be truly frightening once he became the centre of the franchise. The first film has a genuinely nightmarish quality because of the mystery surrounding him. Like the first 'Candyman' film he is a believably evil bogeyman. All of the sequels are shit, including 'Wes Craven's New Nightmare' and 'Freddy Vs Jason'. Freddy Krueger is the ultimate movie monster left neutered by his own popularity, IMO.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.30.203.116
Posted on Wednesday, May 01, 2013 - 11:43 pm:   

Not keen on spiders. They spy on our daily lives and inform on us to their friends on the web.

However, I know the difference between a spider and Wes Craven.

One is a creeping, spineless, cold-blooded bag of noxious fluids, and the other has eight legs.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, May 02, 2013 - 11:23 am:   

You'd love the Zebra spider, Joel. They have the largest eye to body ratio of any spider and super acute eyesight. They react to humans with startling intelligence, swivelling around to follow our every move and can jump several times their body length. Fortunately they're rather small and adorably cute with their vivid black and white stripes. I've heard they can even be trained to perform tricks and have been used in carnivals as an alternative to performing fleas. Straight up!
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2013 - 09:39 pm:   

A whole day went by without dragooning Stevie into creating another top 10 list?!?

Stevie—your Top 10 Best Ever list of "rock 'n' roll" covers of original songs (time frame: 1960—present).

And... begin.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 12:46 pm:   

Top 10 cover versions:

1. "Take Me To The River" (1978) by Talking Heads {Al Green}
2. "Whipping Post" (1981) by Frank Zappa {The Allman Brothers Band}
3. "Nice 'n' Sleazy" (1978) by The Stranglers {Frank Sinatra}
4. "Dear Prudence" (1983) by Siouxsie & The Banshees {The Beatles}
5. "All Along The Watchtower" (1968) by The Jimi Hendrix Experience {Bob Dylan}
6. "Tainted Love" (1981) by Soft Cell {Gloria Jones}
7. "My Way" (1978) by Sid Vicious {Frank Sinatra}
8. "Victoria" (1988) by The Fall {The Kinks}
9. "Green Door" (1981) by The Cramps {Jim Lowe}
10. "On Broadway" (1989) by Neil Young {The Drifters}

But the one legendary rock cover version I have never heard, and dearly long to, is XTC's recording of the theme song from 'Fireball XL5' (written by Barry Gray and originally a hit for Don Spencer in 1962)and included on their 2002 album 'Coat Of Many Cupboards'. "My heart would be a fireball - A FIREBALL - everytime I gaze into your starry eyes..." etc.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2013 - 04:12 pm:   

Great list, Stevie! The ones on here I know, kick ass... it bodes well for the others, which I'll go hunt down. (In today's world of Spotify and Pandora and Youtube, you can find any song anywhere... I'm sure you'll locate the XTC one—hey, I think *I* have that album!)

But no covers by Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Lennon, Bowie... or Tiny Tim?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 04:34 pm:   

My Top 10 Ramsey Campbell characters:

1. John Horridge
2. Hector Woollie
3. Jack Orchard
4. Dudley Smith
5. Rose Tierney
6. Barbara Waugh
7. Peter Priest
8. Rowan Faraday
9. Marshall Travis
10. Amy Priestley

Name the novels...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 04:50 pm:   

My Top 10 giallos:

1. 'Tenebrae' (1982) by Dario Argento
2. 'Profondo Rosso' (1975) by Dario Argento
3. 'Opera' (1987) by Dario Argento
4. 'Blood And Black Lace' (1965) by Mario Bava
5. 'A Bay Of Blood' (1971) by Mario Bava
6. 'A Blade In The Dark' (1982) by Lamberto Bava
7. 'Stage Fright' (1987) by Michele Soavi
8. 'The Case Of The Bloody Iris' (1972) by Giuliano Carnimeo
9. 'Torso' (1973) by Sergio Martino
10. 'The Bird With The Crystal Plumage' (1969) by Dario Argento

I very much love the form, Craig!! And there are loads of classics I have yet to see...
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 02:39 am:   

My gosh, I think I've actually seen all those! Except maybe 'Torso,' don't remember that one....
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 11:48 am:   

'Torso' is the one with the masked and gloved hacksaw killer who enjoys dismembering scantily clad young women. It starred Suzy Kendall as a prototype of the virginal final victim being chased through the last third of the movie and has the typical whodunit giallo plot with flashbacks to a traumatised childhood that created the psychosexual killer. A superior giallo, imo.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 01:24 pm:   

As Douglas Adams would say, you're using the word 'superior' in a sense of which I was not previously aware.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.165.252.157
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 02:30 pm:   

4. Dudley Smith

Isn't he in James Ellroy's LA Confidential as well?
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 81.149.182.62
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 07:23 pm:   

So is no one going to have a crack at naming those Ramsey Campbell novels?

Joel, all the giallos on that list are superior horror/suspense thrillers, IMO. Each one is a beautifully shot and grippingly directed classic of Italian cinema.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.212.231.227
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 11:03 pm:   

1 - face that must die. 2 - silent children. 3 - count of eleven. That's off the top of my head. I'd have to check the books for the rest of them.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2013 - 11:40 pm:   

I'm lying in bed listening to a Stravinsky marathon tonight. He's my favourite composer. 'The Firebird', 'Petrushka', 'The Rite Of Spring', 'The Nightingale', 'Pulcinella', 'The Fairy's Kiss', 'Symphony In C', 'Symphony In Three Movements', 'Symphony Of Wind Instruments' and a 34 track CD of all his marvellous Miniatures. Music doesn't get any more sublime than this!!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.106.37
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 01:31 pm:   

Top 10 werewolf films
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.106.37
Posted on Saturday, May 11, 2013 - 02:04 pm:   

And top 10 song and dance routines in film...
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 05:49 pm:   

Top 10 werewolf films:

1. 'An American Werewolf In London' (1981) by John Landis
2. 'The Howling' (1981) by Joe Dante
3. 'Curse Of The Werewolf' (1961) by Terence Fisher
4. 'The Company Of Wolves' (1984) by Neil Jordan
5. 'The Wolf Man' (1941) by George Waggner
6. 'Dog Soldiers' (2002) by Neil Marshall
7. 'Ginger Snaps' (2000) by John Fawcett
8. 'The Werewolf Of London' (1935) by Stuart Walker
9. 'Frankenstein Meets The Wolf Man' (1943) by Roy William Neill
10. 'The Beast Must Die' (1974) by Paul Annett
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.116.230.26
Posted on Saturday, May 18, 2013 - 07:10 pm:   

Sorry, Weber. Song and dance routines aren't really my bag. That's what made 'Les Miserables' such a great musical and, for me, the best one I have ever seen - there were none!
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.134.105.61
Posted on Sunday, May 19, 2013 - 01:37 pm:   

Not sure If I could stretch to 10 myself but

1 - Everyt sperm is sacred - Monty python's meaning of life
2 - Consider yourself - oliver
3 - dance sequence from fisher king
4 any random production number from west side story
5 - wotsit dancing with Jerry mouse in singing in the rain
6 - Singing in the rain - singin in the rain

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