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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 11:16 am:   

“The Man in the Underpass”: A Passage from View

This tale belongs to the canon or subgenre of Campbell stories featuring children and their relationships with adults. We know that by and large children live in a world of their own, and that they sometimes offer interesting, fresh glimpses into an everyday reality which has become stale and commonplace to the adults surrounding them. Sometimes they perceive things that remain hidden from us or have been forgotten by us, and sometimes reality is distorted and amalgamated into their world view.

It should come as no surprise that to Lynn, the eleven-year old narrator and her friends, the underpass of the title is a place filled with magic. There are plugs hanging down like buds and the children like to make ghostly noises in the cave-like space (the Aztec god Popocatepetl is venerated in caves surrounding the volcano which is called after him, and in Lynn’s imagination the underpass is a cave.)—until “the skinheads started to wait for the little kids”.

When the skinheads are gone, the children’s old haunt doesn’t quite look the same anymore. The place is festooned with graffiti, one of them depicting a man with a large erection. A residue of the skinheads’ unfulfilled yearnings? Another child, Tonia, has an unsettling encounter with the figure, starts spending more and more time in the underpass alone, but refuses to talk about what happens there. Tonia overhears an adult calling the figure ‘Eztec” and reprimands him when he calls her “love”. The man explains that the Aztecs had no need for seasons (it is nearly midsummer) and cut out human hearts all year round.

Tonia reads up on the Aztecs and finds out (or begins to think) that sacrifices made their ancient gods walk among men. A Doctor Who episode (clearly “The Green Death”) is alluded to, so we know the tale is set in 1973. Another Campbell story, “Midnight Hobo”, is briefly alluded to, in the paragraph where we learn that the mice have disappeared from their cage in the classroom. Shortly after she encounters Tonia running, looking sick, Lynn goes to the underpass to fetch her little brother and discovers that “someone has thrown red paint all over the place.” The mice are eventually discovered in a bin marked Litter, a veiled reference to the eponymous Campbell tale.

Tonia is seen leading a group of little girls to the underpass, “to see a man who shows them nice things.” She befriends a puppy, but it escapes before she can kill it. Shortly thereafter the little girls are heard shouting “Pop a cat a petal”. Tonia explains that it is the name of the figure in the underpass, an Aztec god who materializes when you call out his name and take your knickers off. June an Lynn follow Tonia into the underpass and think they see a giant man standing behind Tonia, “with a spout swaying like an elephant’s trunk reaching up.” They manage to escape, but soon afterwards June’s big sister is attacked in the underpass. Lynn casually asks her friend if her sister was raped. An examination reveals that she hasn’t been touched.

We already know what happened to the mice, so the revelation that the police find two little hearts caught in a drain in the underpass is a bit superfluous. “I don’t think that’s red paint on this light,” one of the constables adds thoughtfully.

Later Lynn hears Tonia boasting in the school playground that “Pop a cat a petal did it to her, too”: clearly ‘the man in the underpass’ has had sex with other children as well.

One can read this story in different ways: either you accept is as a supernatural tale (a child conjures up an Aztec god by means of a sacrifice), or you consider the weird happenings an offshoot of the childrens’ imagination fuelled by very real goings-on. The children in this tale evidence a marked level of sexual knowledge and sexual behaviour. Indeed, after her first encounter in the underpass Tonia is persistently drawn to the place and even tries to let her classmates in on her little secret. They are all driven by curiosity, not fear, a realistic touch I recognize from my own childhood days.
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Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin)
Username: Richard_gavin

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2008 - 06:02 pm:   

Hubert,

Thank you for getting the June thread rolling with your insights into this story. I'm looking forward to re-reading "The Man in the Underpass" this week.

Best,
Richard
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 - 01:38 pm:   

This story is a bold synthesis of supernatural, psychological and social themes. When it came out (around 1973 if I remember rightly), most UK weird fiction was stuck in a traditional groove – this story was one of several shock treatments the youngish Campbell applied to the field.

'The Man in the Underpass' shows the supernatural arising from the psychic energies of a traumatised child, with the aid of her friends and some desperately small-scale ritual sacrifice. It all starts with Tonia and whatever is going on in her home – her mimickry of adult sexual behaviour suggests strongly that she is being (or has been) sexually abused, but Campbell wisely stops short of confirming this.

Tonia adopts the Aztec god as a substitute father, inviting its domination and abuse in a tragic behaviour pattern characteristic of abuse victims. The story's closing line is a bitter confirmation that the ritual, for her at least, has succeeded.

A couple of aspects mark this story as quite early Campbell. One is the way the last paragraph echoes the structure of the last paragraph of Lovecraft's 'The Horror At red Hook' – though Campbell's story is overall profoundly different from Lovecraft's. Another is the slightly less than confident use of social background: the strike appears to be mentioned to root the story in its time and place, rather than being thematically integrated (which it could have been, given how important power is as a theme in this story).

Raw and slightly uncertain as this story is, it takes chances and integrates the supernatural with some highly uncomfortable psychological issues. "They cut hearts out all the year round" isn't just referring to the Aztecs, and the use of a verb whose past and present tense are the same word is no coincidence.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 - 01:40 pm:   

Mimicry, not mimickry. I'm turning into Smilemime. :-(
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 02:03 pm:   

The question of this story is: where is the volcano?

Answer? my spout.

This story is superhorror. I bet Ramsey didn't even know it when he wrote it. It is one of a batch that I would class as supreme art.

Much better than anything Thomas Ligotti did. Huh!

The figure manifesting from the graffiti is an iconic image of our age. His spout is legendary.

Thomas Ligotti? Huh!

To think an Aztec god went all that way to see under some girl's skirt.

I wonder if we are still sacrificing to these gods. Chav murders? In their bright ceremonial outfits...that mirror the styles and colours of GRAFFITI ITSELF?

Are they not the walking embodiment of mindless pagan violence? (yes, they are.To clarify)

Ramsey foresaw the chav with this story. What else did he see?
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 02:08 pm:   

And who is really behind the creation of this horrible figure? The liberal social worker youth club people who visit the school, that's who.

Yes! with their floppy hats and middle class upbringing and their liberal attitudes.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 09:42 pm:   

For the record, Albie, I think your reading of the story is way off. The story doesn't predict anything. It reflects the lives of urban youngsters at that time, which is not so very different from now or decades before – look at Graham Greene's story 'The Destructors' for example.

But then, I just can't see what there is about 'the chav' that differs in any major way from the skinheads, the mods, the rude boys, the razor gangs, etc back through generations. A mix of youth subculture, thuggery, testosterone, confusion, music, whatever. Often difficult, but hardly an eclipse of humanity.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 09:46 pm:   

Or to take another Graham Greene example (and one that influenced Ramsey), look at BRIGHTON ROCK. You won't find many chavs as frightening as Pinkie. But what cultural influences produced that particular young psychopath? According to Greene, religion and the small-town life of the 1930s (or possibly 1940s).
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 10:16 pm:   

Not that the kids in 'The Man in the Underpass' are either psychopaths or members of any subculture. They're just ordinary kids in a dangerous world. That's the point, really.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 10:16 am:   

Well, it could be said that Campbell was prescient in another way:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_29/ai_n14816981

Incredible.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 12:41 pm:   

Well, chavs DO look like walking grafitti. Like Walking vandalism, decay.

In gay spreycan colours.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 12:49 pm:   

Even PINKY BROWN is colours. Wearing bright colours is a sign of dominance. Hence the Pope's gay gowns.

Grafitti is all about the chavs dominance over the average person. Which is true, they can kill us left right and centre and get sent to holiday camps, so I've heard. Butlins didn't seem that hard to get out of when I saw it. Although I can see why you would want to escape from them.

It's right wing criticism that falls on it's own sword.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 12:53 pm:   

>>Often difficult, but hardly an eclipse of humanity

Do you live with them next door to you? Chavs bring you down. They suck at the fabric of society. Well, not the ivory tower part of society.
Are they different from any other form of yob? No. But the way we punish them has changed.

Which allows them to thrive.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 12:58 pm:   

I wonder if I'll be banned from this forum if I suggest that there's a racial element to this story?

White chavs, brown chavs.

At the time, Black American culture was coming through. Grafitti and silly dancing.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 12:58 pm:   

A BIG cock?

Yes?
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:08 pm:   

As I recall it was mostly glamrock and prog in those days, especially in England. There has always been a black subculture, but soul and disco didn't get realy big until the mid-seventies.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:20 pm:   

It was the mid seventies, wasn't it? 73?

Black street culture started making headlines around then. When Graffiti as a black art form became notorious.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:25 pm:   

It then made it's merry way here. Just like Popocatepetl.

The skinheads in the story aren't the bogeymen. (although the skinheads being there is very apt) The bogyeman is a foreign entity painted with black American culture.

Not that I'm saying he's racist.

Well, anymore than me. Nor am I saying it was conscious.

But it would make sense of the story.

Yes, I'm aware Aztecs weren't Afro-Carribean.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:28 pm:   

You see why I get banned so much?

Why do people like to have such safe thoughts?

I suppose it's logical we would stay in the realm of cosy. You don't come here to feel bad about stuff. You don't want to hear that Ramsey may have subconsciously written a story about fears of the foreign.

Although Horror is litered with that very fear and is one of the primary veins.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:32 pm:   

And to HUMANIZE Ramsey? UGH! We want him weird and otherworldy and unknowable and beyond petty fears like zenophobia.

Apt that DR WHO figures in this story, who deals with the ultimate aliens.

GREEN DEATH leads us back to colour. Green is the euphemism for black in sci fi...innit?
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:33 pm:   

Oh, I forgot...

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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:42 pm:   

Next subject: THE HORRORS OF OVER ANALYSIS.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 01:55 pm:   

There were graffiti in the underpass under West Derby Road - the location that suggested the tale - in 1973. I don't recall any black people living anywhere near there (they mostly lived in Toxteth).
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 06:38 pm:   

Albie, Jamaican culture inspired the original skinheads and 'rude boys' of the 1960s, while the mods listened to soul and the rockers to blues. Black music and dress sense has inspired white popular culture for at least half a century. And no, I don't think that's a problem.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 08:20 pm:   

Graffiti have always been around, perhaps not to the extent that entire walls or neighbourhoods were painted in garish colours; but drawing sexual organs or writing declarations of love on doors of public lavatories certainly has never been a prerogative of the black community.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 12:08 am:   

Nor, in fact, particularly tolerated by it – which may be what you're implying.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 12:11 am:   

The description of toilet cubicle graffiti in M. John Harrison's THE COURSE OF THE HEART is brilliantly funny. But we're straying off topic here. Unless we want to go on to discussing 'The Telephones'.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 12:35 pm:   

I'm aware that black culture inspired skinheads. But the image of the skinhead implies both tolerance and antagonism of foreign culture.

Back when this tale was written graffiti was a black street culture thing. Particularly with the sprey cans and styles that we still see today.

And Enoch Powell just a few years before had given his famous speech about rivers of blood.

The Aztec human sacrifices and the term river of blood are often used together.

But you can stay on the surface if you find that cosy.

I mean, I'm not going to Mark Samuels you and go on about ignoring subconcsious suggestions of graffiti and black culture.
It's just odd that we get from an underpass to an Aztec god.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 12:53 pm:   

I think it's because modern graffiti do look a bit like certain pieces of Aztec art. Bright colours, an outspoken two-dimensionality . . . Scroll down to the image of OMETECUHLTI, to see what I mean:

http://www.crystalinks.com/aztecgods.html
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 01:16 pm:   

Interesting point, Albie.

Strange to consider that the BFS held Fantasycon in the now-demolished Midland Hotel, Birmingham, a few times in the 80s and 90s, and the hall it used for the Awards Ceremony looked exactly like the hall where Powell had made his speech (in the same hotel).
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 01:57 pm:   

http://www.crystalinks.com/mictlan.jpg

And doesn't that look just like someone in a shellsuit?

Obviously Ramsey isn't psychic...or is he?

It's dream logic. I once had a dream about mexicans but in reality it was about Muslims.

The subconscious is a weird thing.

Maybe I'm ALL subconscious! Maybe my conscious mind jumped ship years ago!

As Ramsey writes about his parents when he's writing AGAIN (according to him, Don't blame me on that one!) he is writing about urban decay and how it makes us pagan. (probably)

The skinheads bring it home to us. But even the girls are brought into it. Even a GOD is brought into it.
Perhaps that poor God was just a product of his environment.

HAHAHH!
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 01:59 pm:   

Chavs and spivs and gods. Lording it up in a damaged world.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 02:35 pm:   

"Perhaps that poor God was just a product of his environment."

Aren't all gods?
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 10:04 pm:   

I find this a rather uncomfortable story to read - I think it's the combination of the innocent sexuality of the schoolgirls coupled with the rampant image (and demands) of the "god".

This is the first time I've re-read it in years, and what struck me most was the simplicity of the language and the way Campbell effortlessly impersonates the rambling monologue of a young child with his narration.

The last line I find oddly unnerving - what exactly does she mean when she says "pop a petal" "did it" to her too? I think it's more than the obvious, and this adds to the sense of dread building throughout the tale.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 01:35 pm:   

I reckon this story inspired THE FORBIDDEN. By Barker. The same elements occur. Urban decay. Offerings to a half real entity. The entity having mulitcoloured skin.
Was the child having it's penis cut off just in the film? Or was it in the book as well? If so, then they share a similar desecration.

I wonder if primitive minds (children, bush men, madmen) conjure gods and devils naturally. Like LORD OF THE FLIES. If a madman who had never encountered the notion of a god was left to his own devices in seclusion...would he re-invent the notion of a god?

We need to find a child and bring it up in a locked room, see if it starts to worship...once it has gone mad.

But suppose the god wasn't just a figment of its imagination...
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 01:57 pm:   

Albie, I'm sure you're right about the Barker story. It always struck me as a Campbell tribute.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 01:59 pm:   

There's more urban cult worship in THE NAMELESS, of course. The ur-cult that is the reverse side of the Kultur.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 12:42 am:   

We need to find a child and bring it up in a locked room, see if it starts to worship...once it has gone mad.

But suppose the god wasn't just a figment of its imagination...


Brrr... Write it, Albs. Write it!
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 - 01:13 pm:   

I'm sure someone must have written that already. Aaron Rayburn maybe.

God I miss the old me discovering Clive Barker.
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Karim Ghahwagi (Karim)
Username: Karim

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 03:22 pm:   

In rereading this I was struck by how seemingly effortlessly Campbell manages to tell his story through the eyes of a child. I think it is really, really well done.

The images of the painted man are of course impossible to forget. A powerful image indeed. And yes I can see how this could have inspired Barker's The Forbidden. Funny thing is that Barker has mostly stayed clear of stories set in Liverpool- except Weaveworld if I recall correctly- Lots of colours in the carpet to contrast the gray, dilapidated condition of the city around him.

Could we post the order of the stories again, at this point I have no idea who's next. :-)
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 06:33 pm:   

Karim, go to Reading Group & then to Reading Group Schedule.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 11:53 am:   

Hang on. Wasn't Ramsey running a writing class for six to eight year olds when he wrote this story!

Just kidding.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 07:13 pm:   

Most of what I'd say has already been written here, about "The Man in the Underpass", so I'll just add that it's entirely effective for me. The sentences vividly convey the narrator's voice and age, the time is neatly captured, and that strange cusp of change children of such an age are on. Ramsey's images are great, while he never lets slip that the language might be coming from a kid. It's gritty and should be silly, but it's not in the last that. The last sentence is disturbing in any number of ways, but possibly in the worst of all by ringing true. Cap doffed. He's the man.
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John_l_probert (John_l_probert)
Username: John_l_probert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 09:09 pm:   

I try very hard not to analyse much of the fiction I read, partly because I don't feel terribly confident about doing so but also because I think my appreciation of the text diminishes the more I try to read into it.

It's been worthwhile, though, re-reading 'The Man in the Underpass' this evening, along with the notes I made prior to my interviewing Ramsey and then looking at the discussion above. My notes are highly cynical about there being any supernatural element:

"Graffiti image of a 'man' is described as 'Aztec' in front of impressionable girl who sacrifices mice to it to bring the 'God' to life, after which it seemingly abuses (?mentally only) her & her older sister. Told from POV of another child."

I think the last line of the note above is the key to the effectiveness of this story. The number of possible choices for a narrator to this tale are many - everyone from parents to police to the doctor who examines the girl, but Ramsey chooses to use a girl who acts as, if not the 'unreliable narrator' that we see in, eg Lovecraft, she is certainly an impressionable one, easily open to misinterpretation, and with a limited set of facts with which to examine the world as all children do.

So I don't think that the supernatural element is important here, if it even exists. As Albie so eloquently put it - why would an Aztec God go to so much trouble to look up a kiddie's skirt? I don't think it was Ramsey's intention to render the concept of deification as essentially pathetic but perhaps it works on that level too.

I don't think it's a story about race. If it was then perhaps it needed a 1973 middle-class mother seeing the picture and commenting about 'It was so huge, you know, like THEY are meant to have' to ram (sorry I can't help it sometimes but there's one for Joel) the point home.

A splendidly effective story, and as Joel has pointed out, pretty revelatory from the point of view of the state of horror fiction in 1973, the year which saw the publication of the 14th Pan Book of Horror Stories, and had R Chetwynd-Hayes halfway through his successful run of Fontana collections.
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Albie (Albie)
Username: Albie

Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 02:15 pm:   

So it may not have been a real spooky, but just the girl seeing things?

I didn't think of that.

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