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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.24.4
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2011 - 11:41 pm:   

Doctor Who is on a break, but not before I realised why I don't like it any more: the protagonists are bullies.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.24.4
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2011 - 11:42 pm:   

(By the way, has anyone come up with a better way to start a new thread than having to go to that page which lists every thread ever started?)
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.169.240
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 12:08 pm:   

Proto - it's the smuggest crap on telly. I'm really upset about it. Dr Who is the baddie? How? Why? There's not an atom of anything to support it.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.37.187
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 12:25 pm:   

It was an utter mess last night. Pseudo-cinematic finale for its own sake, with merry-go-rounds and pay-offs galore, confusing back stories and spineless reveals.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.37.187
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 12:36 pm:   

...and meta-verse incanted by recitative rote.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.58.66
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 12:42 pm:   

It's all Davros's fault.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.4.19.77
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 12:45 pm:   

I think now, more than ever, they need to go back and rewatch some classic Who, remind themselves what was so great about it, and completely restructure the show for next series (if there is one). Drop the story arcs, cut the episodes back to half an hour and spread each story over three or four weeks, with old-style cliffhangers every week to pull the punters back in... we can but dream. <sigh>
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.169.240
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 12:51 pm:   

I foresee a long time absence while they try and coax RTD back. I feel like I need a memory wipe to free me from this lot. I feel jangled, like I've licked a new battery watching this run.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.95.32
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 01:13 pm:   

"Drop the story arcs, cut the episodes back to half an hour and spread each story over three or four weeks, with old-style cliffhangers every week"

Sounds like a recession-era version. Might work, actually. Never thought I'd agree with Michael Grade about anything.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.95.32
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 01:19 pm:   

I do feel sorry for parents. Either they have to see their kids disappointed or try to explain that mess to them.

Stephen Moffat's in danger of being the new George Lucas. Are these episodes generally dislike? If so, does Moffat know that or is he living in Skywalker ranch too?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.95.32
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 01:24 pm:   

I thought new WHO hit its stride way back at the end of the first series and the second one was consistently good.

Not much point in picking it apart, but last night didn't the Doctor murder probably thousands of cybermen just to make a point? I can't imagine Tom Baker doing that.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.4.19.77
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 01:35 pm:   

I thought last year's series was the strongest of new Who to date which makes this series all the more disappointing... so far.

After that I'd agree with you, Proto, the Ecclestone series and first Tennant series were brilliant, but then RTD got too smug and completely lost the plot imo. It's beginning to look like it only took Moffat one series...
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.37.187
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 03:10 pm:   

Do you believe this person:
http://shocklinesforum.yuku.com/reply/169763/Doctor-Who#reply-169763
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.95.32
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 03:24 pm:   

Yes.
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.165.37.187
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 03:35 pm:   

Well, that puts everything into perspective. I thought Doctor Who was an unavoidable Jungian archetype at least, or a worldwide SF icon at most.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.95.32
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 04:27 pm:   

No, I don't think it's either. It's probably like Weetabix. Recognised by all, loved by some, mostly because of nostaliga.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.95.32
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 04:27 pm:   

Weetabix would be a good name for a DW alien.
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Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker)
Username: Stephen_theaker

Registered: 12-2009
Posted From: 92.232.184.206
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 04:53 pm:   

"I do feel sorry for parents. Either they have to see their kids disappointed or try to explain that mess to them."

Kids disappointed? As if! Our children (girls aged three and seven) thought it was fantastic.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 05:36 pm:   

My son (aged 7) finds it a bit dull, I'm afraid. He's scared of the monsters (which should be one of the aims of the show) but the programme as a whole doesn't grab his imagination even half as much as his favourite TV show - Horrible Histories.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 05:36 pm:   

Saying that, Charlie doesn't seem to have inherited his Dad's love of all things scary and monster-filled.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.7.184
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 06:43 pm:   

Scared and bored? God, it sounds like being in the trenches.

Horrible Histories is VERY good.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 06:45 pm:   



Yes, HH is very good indeed. I fully approve of him watching it.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.169.240
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 07:01 pm:   

Zed - do you watch any horror with your kid? This friend of mine used to be into making movies/watching horror and SF but was so into it he ignored his kid and his kid went into footy.
My two lads have been plonked down in front of horror cinema since about the age of eight and while not fanatical would rather watch a horror above anything else, and love spooky/frightening stories. Our friday night horror projector nights are ace, and both lads are great judges about what is good in film (They LOVED The Shining).
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Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.199.129
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 07:14 pm:   

Silence fell in my case because MY RUDDY VIDEO RECORDER BROKE!! My fault, I guess, for using old technology. I hope to watch it on iPlayer tonight - or maybe it isn't worth bothering with?

So, am I the only person in the country who still doesn't know who River Song is?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.7.42
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 08:15 pm:   

You're probably the only one left who cares.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 08:57 pm:   

Tony - he's watched stuff like the original King Kong (and enjoyed it) but he enjoys factual programmes more than fiction - science stuff is his favourite (after football). I try not to force the stuff I enjoy on him, because he's got his own strong persoanl tastes. My philosophy is: if I gently draw his attention to the stuff, he might enjoy it.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 08:58 pm:   

Btw, he's also to young to watch a lot of the stuff I watch (I'm very wary of what I let him see). He loves The Sarah Jane Adventures, though...
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 12:06 am:   

Didn't mind that episode as much as the rest of this series. It was still a rushed muddle, but I'm a sucker for 'assembling the team' montages. In fact, if they made a series following the supporting cast from that episode I'd quite happily watch it.

Overall, though, I still think the series so far has been a big disappointment. The idea of returning to 4/5 episode long stories instead of a series-long arc sounds like a good idea to me.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 12:37 am:   

We wayched the "Ganger" eoisodes this evening...not bad; probably the best of the series so far. But I think Smith becomes more irritating with each new episode.

SPOILERS

And Proto's right - him killing Ami Pond's Ganger at the end made a mockery of all the touchy-feely "who are the real monsters" schtick beforehand. It felt to me like a desperate attempt to create a shock-horror cliffhanger moment.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 12:46 am:   

What the fuck's going on with me and these stupid typos on here?
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.142.105
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 05:27 am:   

Caroline - ignore the negativity a few people are showing here and make your own mind up about the episode by watching it yourself. I thought it was really good, though if you haven't already figured out who River Song is, you ought to hang your head in shame. I've been hoping it wasn't that because it was so obvious.


Having said that it's also pretty clear he's had that in the pipeline since he introduced the character. I'm assuming that when he wrote the library episode he had the contract in the bag to write the series full time (he took a massive paycut and left Hollywood (writing for Speilberg) to take the Doctor Who job).
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.143.178.131
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 10:09 am:   

I liked it very much and Smith is one of the best Doctors for a while. Sure this series hasn't been consistent at times, but then that's true of virtually all Doctor Who. I'm not having a go at anyone on this board but I do wonder why some people still watch it when they profess to hate it so much. Anyway, yes saw that twist coming but the supporting cast were brill this week. The Sontaran nurse was great and so was the Holmesian Silurian with her cockney sidekick. Terrific fun, but also very dark at times.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 11:59 am:   

Smith is still the best Doctor since Tom Baker imo. I preferred Eccleston to Tennant, as I've said before.

As we're only half way through this series I'm reserving judgement for now and praying Weber's faith is justified. We've had three strong episodes out of seven so far, two middling and two poor... here's hoping they've kept the best till last.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.26.88
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 05:49 pm:   

"I do wonder why some people still watch it when they profess to hate it so much."

Think about it.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.169.240
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 05:53 pm:   

I still watch it because I want to love it. :-(
Proto - I keep meaning to email you but have been avoiding the net, a bit. I've been reading that RTD book and loving it - he's so honest and reassuring. A very human man. I'll be in touch later - it's been nice seeing you on here again.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.169.240
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 05:54 pm:   

It was GREAT meeting Tennant. Absolutely magic. Who is real, whatever happens to him on the telly!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.169.240
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 05:56 pm:   

Imagine that - Who lives through the actors, like some League of Extraordinary Gentlemen concept.
Or God.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 06:05 pm:   

'Doctor Who' has always been bigger than any one individual or creative team.

That's what makes it great and why I keep coming back for more.
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 07:12 pm:   

"I do wonder why some people still watch it when they profess to hate it so much."

Because last time it hit a massive low and I was about to stop watching, they pulled out Family of Blood and Blink in the space of three weeks. Part of me hopes that the same thing will happen again.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.26.88
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 08:20 pm:   

Tony, that RTD book is great, but it does peter out a bit towards the end and it becomes a script book. You can hear him becoming exhausted. He says he was tempted to go back to cocaine as his tenure ended.

I really enjoyed the LoEG film, too, by the way. Much better than the comics, which I found far too cynical and self-concious to be fun.

(I've been too busy to do much more than the odd message here, by the way...)
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.40.254.242
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 06:16 pm:   

I thought the finale rescued a pretty ropey series so far. I see what the Moff's doing, but he's expecting the whole audience to take the big formatting/imaginitive leap he'd've enjoyed as a kid for Who. Kudos to him for not treating kids as though they're as dumb as their parents (something he's done since Press Gang), but he's got an awful lot of problematic plotholes to fill, and he's going to have to trust people to remember the last series but one when the show returns to begin to explain it all.

Smith was superb in the last episode, I thought. Not totally warmed to him before, and he's a hard Doctor to like, especially after Tennant's Doctor, but good for him for being different.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 07:08 pm:   

None of the bad plotting would matters to me as much as the main characters, who are not uniformly unpleasant.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 07:09 pm:   

ack. "NOW uniformly unpleasant."

It's hard to be superior when you make a typo.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 94.197.127.100
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 08:03 pm:   

Yeah, they're a hard bunch to like. That said, at least the Moff's lifted them out of chavhood, to some extent.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.83.109
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 08:38 pm:   

"DOK-TA"!
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.96.253.77
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 08:42 pm:   

At least the show had a heart back then - a beating heart by the name of Rose. It's lost that, IMHO.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.210.93
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 10:53 pm:   

Bring back the chavs.

Jesus, things are bad when you can type that.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 78.152.210.93
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 10:54 pm:   

Are chavs gone? I think even chavs recognised that they're chavs and tried to stop looking like them at least. Michael Carroll has spent his entire 10m.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.40.254.123
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 11:33 pm:   

On Lotto tickets?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.127.172
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 01:21 am:   

There's a breakdown here. Most of it went to cancer research, it seems.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/michael-carroll-squanders-15-million-lotto -win/story-e6freuy9-1226010892705
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.132.169.240
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 09:53 am:   

I prefered the 'chav' episodes. As I said once before, the chavs need Who and Who needs them. Billie Piper was just so natural as Rose in a way no assistant has been since. She was like a human light bulb. Also, as an aside, I don't think she was a chav - the word chav implies not looking for work and committing crime but Rose was into neither of those things. The word chav is bandied about too often. Rose felt real but these new people just feel sort of nothingy.
Proto - I like the comics and the film for different reasons. The comics have this great texture of reality to them, I think, and some great humour, as well as great ideas. The film is just supremely tasty fun.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.145.134.138
Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 11:53 pm:   

/image{OMG}

Oh my God they killed Rory!

Much as I love the programme, I think this is just too funny
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.145.134.138
Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 11:53 pm:   

balls

OMG
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Greg James (Greg_james)
Username: Greg_james

Registered: 04-2011
Posted From: 86.147.230.190
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 12:41 am:   

That cartoon's ace and reminded me just how many times we have seen him die now. This plot device, I mean character, needs fixing.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.145.84.31
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 01:03 am:   

I have to admit I don't remember patient zero getting him but I could be mistooken
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 81.157.19.205
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 12:44 pm:   

Hey - we're back to Who specials for the next year, no full series till 2013.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 12:52 pm:   

I have a feeling we'll see 'Sherlock' get a full series in its place next year... and I wouldn't hold my breath for 2013. Shame.
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Zed (Gary_mc)
Username: Gary_mc

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.156.210.82
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 01:19 pm:   

People must be turning off Who in droves...will Moffat be remembered as the man who killed off the Beeb's flagship franchise?
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 01:37 pm:   

It's something to do with the build up to the 50th anniversay in 2013...

unfortunately i can't get on the official websites from work for full detail
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Jonathan (Jonathan)
Username: Jonathan

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 91.143.178.131
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 01:39 pm:   

I don't think it's anything to panic about at all. Once you factor in IPlayer viewing WHO is still be BBC's biggest show by far.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 03:50 pm:   

That's a relief! I think if 'Doctor Who' was to disappear for a second time that really would be it.

I still have a lot of good will invested in the second half of this series. Fingers and everything else are firmly crossed.

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