| Author | Message | ||
     Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.25.141.120 |
Good Sunday everyone: This week, a rant on the correct way to pronounce Vincent Van Gogh and encouragement to watch the new Sherlock Holmes, which none of you probably need anyway: http://tbdeluxe.blogspot.com/2012/05/you-say-go-i-say-goch-and-so-does-van.html Have a good week! Thomas | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 178.118.79.94 |
Difficult to render in English as the first sound of the word GOGH isn't pronounced the same way as it is in Shakespeare's language - it's not the sound one hears in 'girl' or 'gale'. In English this sound is a voiced velar plosive, whereas the Dutch G is actually a guttural fricative. To the best of my knowledge the latter does not exist in English. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.18.174.156 |
Thanks, Thomas. "Van Goch" it is from here on in. The correct way to pronounce his name is something that has long bugged me. Now can anyone tell me how to pronounce the family name "Atreides" in the Dune books? | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 178.118.79.94 |
Is it possible to insert short sound clips in here? | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.25.141.120 |
Thanks Hubert and Steve. I don't know about the sound clips. I heard one sound clip with the "Goch" pronunciation. (I also heard another sound clip that uses "Go." The Van Gogh website I linked to discusses the possibility that it might be a "gich." | ||
| Christopher Overend (Chris_overend) Username: Chris_overend Registered: 03-2012 Posted From: 217.33.165.66 |
From my albeit hazy recollection of Dutch from my visits to Amshterdam, 'Goch' would have both the 'G-' and '-ch' portions pronouched similarly to the Scottish '-ch' in 'loch', only a bit more harshly. Like the Scouse '-ck' in 'back'. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.145.33 |
Well QI says it's pronounced more like HERKH. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 178.118.79.94 |
No-one in Holland or Flanders (Belgium) pronounces, or has ever pronounced, VAN like the English word 'van'. The vowel in that part of Vincent's surname is a bit like the sound in 'lark', but very short. I can't think of an English equivalent straightaway. To explain how the initial G in 'Gogh' is pronounced is another kettle of fish, because that particular sound doesn't exist in English - leastways I can't think of any examples. And the rendering gIch is a complete impossibility as far as I'm concerned. I'm willing to record a short sound clip and forward it, but I don't think that can be done here. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.145.33 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLTQv8RH1TE | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 178.118.79.94 |
Yep, the Dutch guy has it right. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 178.118.79.94 |
... has GOT it right . . . | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.125.217 |
I thought QI said it was more like VAN HUKH. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.145.209.7 |
The link i posted earlier is to the qi clip about van gogh | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 178.118.79.94 |
The correct pronunciation is heard at 1:07 into the fragment. | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.25.141.120 |
God, even that sounds daunting. But if it's on Stephen Fry's show it MUST be true . . . Boy, I stirred up a stew here, didn't I? | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 178.118.79.94 |
Believe me, it's the only correct way to pronounce the name. Van Gogh is not an uncommon surname in the Netherlands, so it is heard quite frequently. Filmmaker Theo van Gogh was shot ten years ago for criticizing the treatment of women in Islam in one of his films. Notice the 'van' is usually written with a small v in Holland. | ||
| Thomasb (Thomasb) Username: Thomasb Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.25.141.120 |
Gads, this has received more comment--here and elsewhere--than most anything else I've written about, since I wrote about Lee VAN Cleef. I see a pattern emerging. Maybe I should write about VAN Cliburn next. Is VAN the next big SEO? | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.66.23.11 |
Try writing about White VAN Man after that. |