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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.20.117
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 11:16 am:   

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/50-greatest-films-all-time

And now my shameful confession: while I own them all, there are two I haven't seen.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.61.103
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 11:31 am:   

Vertigo the best film ever? I doubt it. Good to see Mulholland Drive, Godfather II and Apocalypse Now so high up the list. And so many french films! Right on.

Which ones haven't you seen, Ramsey?
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.9.246.251
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 12:06 pm:   

Well, I do think Vertigo is very considerable and profoundly disturbing, and probably Hitchcock's masterpiece.

Give me time and I'll reveal my shameful secret...
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.208.239
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 02:56 pm:   

"Sight & Sound's 10 Greatest Films of All Time, and their 1 star IMDb reviews"!

http://www.ultraculture.co.uk/12342-sight-sounds-10-greatest-films-of-all-time-a nd-their-one-star-imdb-reviews.htm

This from the VERTIGO review - "This movie goes on forever and never stops ever until it ends. I wish this film had stayed away from me. Itís all about an old guy in a car who is chasing a woman and thatís it."

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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 04:26 pm:   

Mick: The 1-star comments to The Searchers alone, sounds exactly like studio-hack script notes....

Roger Ebert's explanation/analysis of his own voting (once every ten years, the only "Best of" list he ever votes for!): http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2012/04/the_greatest_films_of_all_time.html
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.136.102.118
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 04:31 pm:   

Personally I don't think Vertogo is hitch's best film. That award has to go to the Birds.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.184.63
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 04:39 pm:   

I woulnd't worry about it, Ramsey. I've seen only 2 of the top ten!
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.184.63
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 04:40 pm:   

I tell a lie. It's 3.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 04:53 pm:   

According to Ebert in that article, he thought Notorious was Hitch's best, and only just changed it to Vertigo this year....

And either my memory is failing me... or I'm not sure I've ever seen Notorious!
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 05:02 pm:   

Only seen three of the top ten myself.

Difficult to choose a best Hitchcock. I go back to THE BIRDS most often, but I suspect that's just a case of it appealing to my sensibilities rather than it being objectively "better" than others. (I also have an odd fondness for FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT.)

Shame that British films aren't better represented. No THIRD MAN? No Lindsay Anderson?
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.184.63
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 05:12 pm:   

Disappointed not to see Smokey and the Bandit there, myself.
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John Forth (John)
Username: John

Registered: 05-2008
Posted From: 82.24.1.217
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2012 - 05:55 pm:   

Well, I thought that went without saying.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.44.184.207
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 12:54 pm:   

I don't rate Persona too highly. I thought it a tad pretentious.
And Vertigo - I still HATE that ending. I did not want to laugh but I did (as did many in the audience, and it was an arthouse cinema). And I really resent it because it makes me look unfeeling to admit it.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.44.184.207
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 12:57 pm:   

Recently I watched Hugo and was hugely disappointed - it had no sense of life to it at all, a film made by a robot. On the other hand I was profoundly affected by Night Flier, which was probably technically a 'dumb' film. The difference was the latter 'worked'. Sometimes skill is not the thing that makes a film 'live' in the mind.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.61.103
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 02:12 pm:   

I suspect Vertigo doesn't work for me because I'd previously read the MAD magazine spoof of Hitchcock films, "MAD goes to an Alfred Hatchplot movie" (as I recall), wherein there were people hanging precariously off bridges, ledges, counters, office desks, whatever, in literally every case of the strip.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.28.37
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 02:33 pm:   

I thought Hugo had a great deal of life myself.

I've seen Vertigo a good number of times at the cinema, and nobody laughed.
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Christopher Overend (Chris_overend)
Username: Chris_overend

Registered: 03-2012
Posted From: 217.33.165.66
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 02:40 pm:   

Shamefully, I've never seen Vertigo, but I have seen you recommend it whole-heartedly, Ramsey, and I do have it at home, so I will remedy that forthwith. I very much enjoyed Hugo; I thought Asa Butterfield and Sacha Baron Cohen were both outstanding.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.20.215
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 03:15 pm:   

I know that these numerical lists of quality are supposed to be just a bit of fun to provoke debate, but their ubiquity indicates that society itself may be becoming autistic. When will we tire of mere quantity?

I eventually came to think of VERTIGO as exquisite, but that abrupt ending after such a slow burn does leave me cold.

I thought the film found its perfect ending and kept driving right past it! I'm speaking of the hotel room scene in the green neon light.
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Patrick Walker (Patrick_walker)
Username: Patrick_walker

Registered: 01-2010
Posted From: 91.125.225.205
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 06:28 pm:   

Actually I'm delighted Vertigo finally hit the top spot because (as well as it being my personal favourite) I genuinely believe it to be the greatest film ever made, and have thought so since the day I first saw it, completely unaware then of the scale of its reputation.
It seems to me to epitomise the best in every aspect of the art of cinema; screenplay (there's a double meaning in seemingly every other sentence - certainly one of those films that is more rewarding upon any subsequent viewing!), its perfomances, the precise and scrutinizing camerawork; its cinematography (its incredible use of colour), music (Hermann's haunting score is, pound for pound, the greatest film score ever written by my book), editing (its wonderful, dream-like pace), and I've got to mention Saul Bass's beautiful opening titles sequence.

Its dark, disturbing and very bleak view of human nature is still incredibly affecting, and I can only wonder at how brave and way out of its time it was.

Its alleged plot holes and infuriating inconsistencies are, to me, almost irrelevent, and seem as pointless as picking plot holes in, say, Hamlet or King Lear. And while I've mentioned that, this film does seem to me to have something of the scope of Shakespearean tragedy about it. To quote Martin Scorsese, "...morality, decency, kindness, intelligence, wisdom - all the qualities that we think heroes are supposed to possess - desert Jimmy Stewart's character little by little, until he is left alone on that church tower with the bells tolling behind him and nothing to show but his humanity."

On a personal level, it also moves me like no other film ever has done, save one or two. To me, it really is just the epitome of "total cinema". I've also seen this at the cinema (twice, in fact) and similarly nobody laughed. There was silence, I remember, and then applause. Anyway, I love its abrupt ending, if you want to call it that.

If I had to choose one film to represent my case to someone, defending cinema's right to be granted the same credence and respect as the other great art forms, I'd choose Vertigo.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.47.138
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 08:59 pm:   

I just remembered: the nightmare scene wherein James Stewart's head emerges from a whirlpool of light like a Warner Bros. cartoon? Very funny.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.44.184.207
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2012 - 09:05 pm:   

Proto - yes, the ending feels such an error of judgement to me I drop it. You know, I feel compelled to apologise for my laughter. I love the film to that point.
(And yes, the Warner Bros head - it is a little amusing.)
My son thought the best scenes in Hugo were the Mellies scenes.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 129.11.77.197
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 10:54 am:   

Sorry, but I do believe that if you laugh at the end of Vertigo, you haven't really been watching it.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.44.184.207
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 11:07 am:   

I have! It just became - for two minutes - a Naked Gun film.
I wish I could track those other laughers down as witnesses.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.44.184.207
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 11:10 am:   

There's a nun, and a comedy scream.
Help me!
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 03:21 pm:   

Some of these are informative. The storyboards for SHADOW OF A DOUBT are stunning works of art in themselves.

http://filmmakeriq.com/2010/11/hitchcocks-storyboards-from-13-classic-films/
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 04:08 pm:   

Holy crap! That Jimmy Stewart head in the whirlpool is the source of the Nile for the world's internet memes!

JSV1
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 147.252.230.148
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 06:16 pm:   

Stop laughing It's not funny. It can't be funny. It's art.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.18.139
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 10:29 pm:   

Well, I haven't started laughing yet.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.79.57.217
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - 11:54 pm:   

I'm laughing right now, and every time I see that image. So many emotions left on the palette. I remember his swoon from the stepladder is kinda funny too.
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.103.100.222
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 09:08 am:   

I do confess to laughing at the end of the BBC filming of Antony and Cleopatra. however. All those deaths . . .
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.44.184.207
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 09:26 am:   

We can't help what we laugh at - and it's not a sign of bad taste or psychopathy.
Unless it is. And what to do?
The above picture is funny because it's the kind of thing the Mighty Boosh do, or Vic Reeves.
I *love* Vertigo - *but it has funny moments*, and for me they do detract from my overall pleasure at the film. We've all written or read a story with a line that clangs. Sometimes the best story has a clanger. And sometimes the clangers aren't noticed by others, or are only perceived as being clangers by some.
This probably can never be sorted out.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.44.184.207
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 09:27 am:   

We must remember Hitchcock withdrew this film from release and wonder why. Maybe it was for these reasons?
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.208.239
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 09:58 am:   

He withdrew five(?) films from release - VERTIGO, ROPE, THE TROUBLE WITH HARRY, REAR WINDOW and (I think) THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH - the 'fifties version. I recall reading he'd planned to re-release them in his old age to boost his pension but I don't know how true that is.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.208.239
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2012 - 10:02 am:   

Some interesting reading about how much money VERTIGO made and about dual ownership of right with Stewart here:-

http://greenbriarpictureshows.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/part-three-of-vertigo-and-c onclusion.html

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