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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 5.71.76.214
Posted on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 - 03:33 pm:   

I went to see 'Star Wars Episode VII : The Force Awakens' yesterday and was as excited as a child by the franchise, all over again. The moment that music started and the famous written preamble scrolled off into the screen I was away.

The film looked and felt absolutely spectacular and was every bit as relentlessly, nostalgically thrilling as J.J. Abrams' 'Star Trek' movies, with the same sense of love for the mythology apparent in every glorious detail. I mean the quality of the special effects and production values (sets, costumes, cinematography, etc), and the amount of convincing incidental detail crammed into every scene was sensationally impressive and way too much to take in on a first viewing. I really didn't notice the time going in and got as childishly excited at all the emotional reunions as I'd expected to be. In these ways the film can't be faulted and gave us fans everything we could have dared hope for.

However, unlike with 'Star Trek', Abrams went too far this time, imho. I couldn't help but be distracted by the lazy obviousness of the plot and unconvincing familiarity of the big set pieces. In many ways this was as much a remake of the original 'Star Wars' (1977) as it was a continuation of the narrative following 'Return Of The Jedi' (1983).

MAJOR SPOILERS

The action starts with an on the run rebel being captured by stormtroopers and a Darth Vader clone but planting the vital information they want in an innocent but loyal droid that escapes to a desert planet! From there... droid is taken in by a callow youth with big dreams of being a starship pilot - CHECK. They narrowly escape the planet on the Millennium Falcon - CHECK. They encounter a legendary figure from the past who acts as a kind of mystic mentor - CHECK. There's a bar scene packed with weird aliens - CHECK. The captured rebel is horribly tortured, giving up the info - CHECK. There's a rescue mission - CHECK. Mentor character makes the ultimate sacrifice in a showdown with the bad guy in black - CHECK. They all join the rebel forces in the face of a planet destroying super Death Star threat - CHECK. There's a climactic assault in which technology proves inferior to The Force - CHECK. They all celebrate - CHECK.

Of course all of this involves new young characters and certain details are tweaked (gender, race, etc) to make the story seem just different enough, while the old timers (with two exceptions) provide poignant but inessential background support, but, overall, 'The Force Awakens', for all its multitudinous pleasures and the awe inspiring technical skill expended on it, could have been so much better with a bit more imagination, originality and less slavish adoration of Lucas's original one-of-a-kind crowd pleasing romp.

In the end the 'Star Wars' saga is too precise and limited in its mythic narrative to allow for this kind of box ticking to be any way satisfying to a fan of my age, who grew up watching each film as it was released. With the 'Star Trek' universe Abrams had far more material to work with, given the sheer volume of TV series and films and characters and alien threats that preceded his reboots, so the box ticking had far more scope for the imagination. Also 'Star Trek' has self-deprecating humour in spades, as well as pathos, and lacks the rather po-faced unrelenting grandiosity of 'Star Wars' - so Abrams' enthusiastic fan-boy filmmaking technique was always going to be a more comfortable fit with Kirk and his mates over Skywalker & Co.

Having said all that the ending of 'The Force Awakens' was its most resonant moment and, I hope, points the way to a more imaginative continuation of the story, rather than 'The Empire Strikes Back : The Remake'. I'll be watching it whatever. The franchise continues to entertain for all its flaws and artistic missteps. May the Force be with you!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.138.8
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 01:48 am:   

We just rewatched The Phantom Menace again tonight, for the umpteenth time, and it still moved me and still showed me new things. It made mistakes but was a much braver and bolder film than Force Awakens.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 5.71.76.214
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 08:37 am:   

The prequels were completely original and added greatly to the richness of the saga even if they were ('The Phantom Menace' in particular) misguided in many of their details. 'The Force Awakens' got the details exactly right without adding very much at all that was new. The defecting stormtrooper character was about the only newish element.

Abrams rather too obviously paid slavish homage to the original 'Star Wars' movie with this one. To the point where it was virtually a remake. Having got that out of his system he really needs to expand the scope of the mythos with the last two episodes.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 5.71.76.214
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 08:52 am:   

The 'Star Trek' reboots work so fantastically well because everything was wonderfully familiar while being completely new. Setting the action in an alternate universe in which the original characters' alter egos were just starting out in life - down parallel but different tracks - was an inspired and playfully irreverent masterstroke that gave him unlimited scope.

The continuation of the 'Star Wars' story called for complete originality while being set in the same universe and timeline as the six films that preceded it. Instead we got a virtual scene-by-scene rehash of Episode IV. That was lazy and disappointing, imo. But, by heck, the film was still a wildly entertaining ride and just glorious to wallow in. A real mixed bag of a movie.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.138.8
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 11:42 am:   

FA made me appreciate Lucas even more than I already did. He never overstates, leaves room for ambiguity. And, dammit, the Force is such a believable thing in his hands. He believes it. Also, he's more cinematic, understands that cinema is an imaginative tool, not just a mirror.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 5.71.76.214
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 02:52 pm:   

Lucas was a visionary director back in the 70s. I mean he made three of that decade's masterpieces; his best film, 'THX 1138' (1971), 'American Graffiti' (1973) and 'Star Wars' (1977). The three prequels got better as they went along, and had moments of his former brilliance, but they were also marred by some terrible artistic misjudgements. On the whole, though, I agree with you Tony, that they were much braver and more imaginative than the blatant fan pleasing of 'The Force Awakens'.

The original three films are imperishable. The second three are flawed but much more interesting and rewarding than many people give them credit for. Time will judge the final three...
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.153.254.41
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 05:19 pm:   

Lucas came out today publicly expressing his displeasure with the new films. He called Disney "white slavers," who took his children (i.e., the Star Wars franchise) away to do with it things that were against his will. Of course, he was paid $4 billion for such children sold into slavery, so...
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.221.135
Posted on Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 07:28 pm:   

He's allowed. I agree with him. Problem is, they didn't exploit or alter his idea - they froze it in carbonite.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.132.239.167
Posted on Friday, January 01, 2016 - 11:49 am:   

It is a pity Lucas didn't get the chance to learn from his mistakes with the prequels and complete his own vision of the story with this concluding trilogy. But he did agree to sell the rights and the rest is history.

Abrams hasn't blown the franchise entirely, however, as 'The Force Awakens' is still a great big enjoyable romp and he, and Disney, still have the chance to do something different with the next two episodes. Then again... money talks and the public have spoken so the chances of any future risk taking appear pretty damn slim. I predict we'll get vamped up reruns of 'The Empire Strikes Back' (with Mark Hamill taking on the Yoda role) and 'Return Of The Jedi' (with a planet inhabited by rubber ducks).
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.221.135
Posted on Friday, January 01, 2016 - 01:28 pm:   

http://darthjarjar.com/
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.156.124
Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 06:22 pm:   

The misguided physical comedy of Jar Jar Binks (based on Mantan Moreland) was only the most obvious and irritating flaw with 'The Phantom Menace'. That film was populated with far too many antiquated racial stereotypes, disguised as freaky aliens, for my liking. They learned from their mistakes in the next two prequels and I only hope the same becomes true of Parts VIII and IX over the next few years.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.219.244
Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 07:40 pm:   

But those character's actors were the same races as them, so to speak. Ahmed Best did the voice that way himself from the way he spoke to his kid brothers.
After watching Revenge of the Sith last week (again) it became perhaps my favourite n the series.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.219.244
Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 07:45 pm:   

'George Lucas never imagined the character being African-American when he scripted his dialogue, and no one at the Lucasfilm art department or ILM ever thought about the character being African-American when they designed his amphibian appearance. The actor chosen to portray Jar Jar, Ahmed Best, just happened to be black.'
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 93.97.134.20
Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 08:16 pm:   

Here's how I'd rank them, Tony:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Star Wars (A New Hope)
3. Return Of The Jedi
4. Revenge Of The Sith
5. Attack Of The Clones
6. The Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.219.188
Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 11:17 pm:   

Me - Sith, Empire, New Hope, Menace, Jedi, Clones. and not even on the scale, the Abrams.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.219.188
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2016 - 07:44 pm:   

Shit.
https://fourthdimensionalrecovery.wordpress.com/2015/12/23/who-is-supreme-leader -snoke-john-d-rockefeller-of-course/
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.118.27.112
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2016 - 08:24 pm:   

The mythologising has started already!!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 109.155.218.157
Posted on Monday, January 18, 2016 - 10:41 am:   

I tried the new movie again. I still hate it.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.11
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 09:28 pm:   

Me too!
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.11
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 09:32 pm:   

Now this message board seems like as much about nostalgia at the new film.

I thought that the director of The Force Awakens seemed incapable of creating a well-composed a shot.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.11
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 09:40 pm:   

And hello everyone! How long has it been?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.5
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2016 - 09:44 pm:   

[Force Awakens Spoiler]

Take the first scene with the laser bolt frozen in mid-air. What a wasted opportunity. What if Kyla Renn put Max Von Sydow in front of the frozen bolt and released it to let it kill him? Oscar Issacs would then be made to watch his own act of violence kill his friend. Thematically and philosophically it would have been so much richer.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.148.19
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 12:50 pm:   

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-george-awakens
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 82.132.231.126
Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 05:14 am:   

'The Phantom Menace' was universally hated back in 1999 and the same thing seems to be happening to 'The Force Awakens' right now - even though it is a far better film. I believe unrealisable expectations after inordinate lengths of time were the death of both projects. Yet the prequel trilogy put things to rights in its second two instalments after listening to fan reactions. I confidently predict the same will prove true in the next two Abrams movies (unless Disney remove him - a possibility - in which case the franchise is truly fucked). Money talks when people walk.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 5.81.153.38
Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 02:31 pm:   

Proto - thanks so much for sharing that article. Both me and my middle son are having a huge bask in Phantom Menace and Sith. The mistakes they made were slight and for some reason people chose to focus on them, maybe to distract us from the point they probably didn't have the depth of character to see how rich they were (which I do).
Abrams is not involved with the next two movies, Stevie. They guy who made Looper is doing the next one and the director of the very well made (I thought) Jurassic world is doing the last.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 5.81.153.38
Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 02:38 pm:   

While I was watching Force Awakens it dawned on me that it really felt like a tv episode of something like Stargate, that sense of something unspecial just grinding on.
Force Awakens had not one moment of the wonder of this, say;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoVpSPXGCvc
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 176.12.107.139
Posted on Friday, January 29, 2016 - 01:18 pm:   

Hi Tony,
I haven't liked a single thing that Abrams has made. And yet...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/JJ-Abrams-Genius-Neil-Daniels/dp/1784187755/ref=sr_1_3?i e=UTF8&qid=1454069802&sr=8-3&keywords=jj+abrams+book

Brett Easton Ellis make a good point when he says that critics have an self-interest in over-praising films because if we woke up and realised just how "okay" all of these much-touted films of the last decade were, the system (and their jobs) would collapse.

We need the equivalent of Barry Norman to tell us that horror films are rubbish and old westerns are great. People need their tastes challenged.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.117.197.80
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 09:38 pm:   

Lucas' photography is better. That glorious sense of depth (space!) is simply missing in this new instalment. What I certainly liked is the lack of cartoonlike aliens.

General Hux and Captain Phasma were great, Finn less so. The new vilain is interesting. A pity Han had to go, but we still have Leia. I wonder how she would look in her slave girl costume today.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.150.36.142
Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 03:21 pm:   

Sigh...I have given in and watched this again this week. TWICE. I LOVED it. (Blush) It's a kid's film, not what I initially wanted. But it's every bit as good as it could have been.
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.10.34.171
Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 10:47 am:   

Abrams isn't a genius but he is very good at giving us fanboys what we want. Like 'The League Of Gentlemen' team he grew up with all this stuff and has a real love and understanding of genre material. Sometimes his projects fail - 'Lost' and 'Super 8' - but when he gets them right - 'Fringe' and the 'Star Trek' reboots - the results are sensational. 'The Force Awakens' was almost there, has many great elements, but, ultimately, has to be seen as one of his failures, imho.
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.229.52.233
Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 05:17 pm:   

Watched it this week. I'm not an Abrams fan. There was an awful lot wrong with The Force Awakens . . . but you know what? I kinda started to like it when Rey glissaded down the sand dune, and, the odd clanger here and there afterwards aside, I enjoyed it pretty much all the way to the end. Not as good as New Hope or Empire, but a darn site better than the prequels. I'd stick it around Jedi level.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.117.197.80
Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 03:14 pm:   

There are far too many parallels with the other instalments, but then Lucas too was fond of that kind of storytelling. Return of the Jedi was a huge disappointment after the dark and tense Empire Strikes Back. The scenes with the ewoks simply did not work for me. Jabba's palace? An amalgam of Sesame Street and the Muppet Show. Carrie was to die for in her slave outfit, but she could have been raunchier. To me she seemed strangely distant from it all.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.117.197.80
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 03:15 pm:   

Imagine what Rey would look like in a slave costume!
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.137.235
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2016 - 03:48 pm:   

I seem to have lost the ability. :-(
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Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 94.10.34.9
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 12:21 pm:   

Wasn't Leia supposed to have been drugged into servitude during her time as Jabba's slave? That's how I picked it up.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.117.197.80
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 02:52 pm:   

She was trying to overcome a serious cocaine habit she'd had previously, hence probably her aloofness in Jedi.

Her first book Postcards From the Edge is actually fun to read and offers recognizable glimpses of her complex character.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.138.175
Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2016 - 11:16 am:   

Have seen Force Awakens again. It gets better every time. A lovely film.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.153.254.41
Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2016 - 04:32 pm:   

It's been on my dvr for like two months now, and I still haven't seen it. I just literally have no desire to. Weird. Things I just instinctively think I should be all over and gangbusters over, I couldn't care less to get involved in - Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, etc. I wonder what that's about?....
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.138.175
Posted on Saturday, November 05, 2016 - 05:06 pm:   

Force Awakens - truly don't miss. I see more in it every time, and more to be moved by. I think I choked up about five times last night. You know, I've enjoyed Walking Dead, but it's not exactly keeper for me. Game of Thrones is just upset-a-vision.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.166.198.115
Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - 02:09 pm:   

Saw the midnight double bill! Sadly, Force Awakens was fantastic, but Last Jedi I had maybe too many issues with, key one being the awful borderline-panto humour and too-grumpy Luke.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.150.27
Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2018 - 10:37 pm:   

I finally caught up with the one with the Darth Vader cosplay in it, ROGUE ONE. It bored me, which is good, because I'm a man in my 40s.

Oh, I met Ramsey Campbell briefly this October too. He was charming.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.2.85.42
Posted on Friday, March 23, 2018 - 02:49 pm:   

Hey, I didn't realise! Where was that?
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.150.30
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2018 - 07:57 pm:   

Hi Ramsey, at the Horror Expo in Dublin - your interview and reading in the Freemason's building were the highlights for me.
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Protodroid (Protodroid)
Username: Protodroid

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 213.233.150.30
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2018 - 08:09 pm:   

I didn't introduce myself as you seemed to have a lot going on. You signed a book for Matt Hayward, a young writer I know who was thrilled to meet you.
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Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.136.165
Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 06:09 pm:   

I thought Rogue One was ok. I keep changing my mind about it. It's ok to like Star Wars at any age. Apart from Last Jedi.

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