| Author | Message | ||
     Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
http://www.cahiersducinema.com/article1337.html | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.203.130.58 |
I am constantly amazed at how much good stuff there is out there that I still haven't seen. | ||
| Coral (Coral) Username: Coral Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 91.108.94.227 |
Ditto John. I'm also amazed at how much French I've forgotten, it took me a while to work out what was being said! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.246.253 |
I just not too long ago saw TO BE OR NOT TO BE, btw... excellent flick that... has one of the best "wtf?!" opening set-pieces I've seen in recent years.... Tangent question: Ramsey, are you fluent in French? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Hélas, non. Bof. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.224.78 |
Moi, je sais parler un peu de français. Quelle est ta question, Craig? | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.177.220 |
This is about all the French I know:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbHJnzgyv7E | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 67.116.103.241 |
Moi, je sais parler un peu de français. Quelle est ta question, Craig I don't understand a lick of French, Hubert. If you're asking me why I've asked, it's because Ramsey seems to make so many references to French films, links to French-language sites, etc., and so I thought perhaps indeed he is fluent in French. I think he responded no?... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.242.126 |
TRANSLATION: Alas, no. Oh well. I googles that. I knew the first bit, but wasn,'t sure about "bof". | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.235.146.197 |
And about GREED, which I've not seen... I'm an anal purist, so I have a real aversion to seeing something I know has been savaged, wherein the intended vision was either lost or destroyed long ago... should I allow this to continue to deter me?... | ||
| Niki Flynn (Niki) Username: Niki Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.32.69.29 |
I'm fairly fluent in perversity, but I've never come across an "anal purist". Do enlighten me. Especially as regards "savaging". Oh, and I'm often embarrassed at how many classics I've never seen. People often make references to films they know I *must* have seen, only to be shocked when I tell them I haven't. I wish I could just upload them into my brain, as I never seem to find the time to watch films properly. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.187.117 |
Craig, you anal savage, you!  | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.129.20.12 |
I just recored a film off the telly the other night, The Sniper, about a man going around a town shooting women. Never heard of it in my life. Guess when it was made? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Well, I'm relying on my knowledge, but was it 1952? Directed by Edward Dmytryk, and I think the BBFC had their doubts about it at the time. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.129.20.12 |
Yes - so early for a topic that feels like only we nowadays could invent it. Have you seen it, Ramsey? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Long ago I did. Alas, I remember little of it now. Oh, to answer Craig on Greed - well, yes, I would watch the remains. We do (or I do) with Ambersons, after all, and The Lady from Shanghai and any amount of Peckinpah. And how about books that we know have been substantially edited, perhaps against the wishes of the author? A Voyage to Arcturus, anyone? | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.224.78 |
"about a man going around a town shooting women" Sounds an awful lot like TARGETS (Bogdanovich, 1968). | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.187.117 |
I loved Karloff in Targets, Hubert. Good film. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.224.78 |
It reminded me of The Doors' "The End" at the time. Still does, I suppose. This was before the song became indelibly associated with Coppola's APOCALYPSE NOW. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.235.146.197 |
I had no idea A VOYAGE TO ARCTURUS had been edited... what's the story there, Ramsey? As to the other films, and other things of that nature - I guess it's that petulant side of me. Which I should overcome. We are, after all, immensely lucky to even have all the attendant materials necessary to enjoy as much as we can of these mangled films, etc., what with definitive scripts, and editions on DVD, etc. Glass half full.... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.235.146.197 |
I'm fairly fluent in perversity, but I've never come across an "anal purist". Do enlighten me. Especially as regards "savaging". That's the best offer I've had all day....  | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"I had no idea A VOYAGE TO ARCTURUS had been edited... what's the story there, Ramsey?" I understand that the publishers cut it by about twenty thousand words, but I can't offhand say where I learned this. I'm amazed to gather that it was filmed in 1971. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.224 |
Yes - you can see it on Youtube, and dvd. Filmed by students. Bet it was better than SURVIVORS. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.236.91 |
They really should re-release the novel ARCTURUS, with the expurgated text. I'd say Hollywood should make this book into a film finally, for reals... but either they'd turn it into something wholly unlike the novel... or they wouldn't touch it at all. I guess much of the world's best prose, will not be done in film form any time soon.... Hey, mind's just been tickled again - Ramsey, you said that your "desert island" book would be Proust's REMEMBRANCE OF THINGS PAST (one of own must-get-to-before-I-dies). Did you ever read Harold Pinter's screenplay version of that?... If so, did he Pinter-ize it like he did THE FRENCH LIEUTENANT'S WOMAN?... And since I'm here pestering you with questions: Have you read the full script for GREED, too?... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.23.233.247 |
I'm just glad folk have even heard of Arcturus. I think real creativity is dead. Everything is muddy, and no-one with real skill or vision is working in telly or popular cinema. It's like seeing a cathedral built by only the builders, the architects having all departed to some other place. Same went for some of those Hammer films we were talking about. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"I think real creativity is dead. Everything is muddy, and no-one with real skill or vision is working in telly or popular cinema." Scorsese? Cronenberg? Joe Wright? Richard Linklater? McGehee and Siegel? Andrew Dominik? By no means an exhaustive list. Craig, I never have read the Pinter, but after his work on The Last Tycoon and The Handmaid's Tale I'm not that eager, I admit. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.154 |
I reckon it'll improve. Art tends to during economic hardship. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.224.78 |
Remembrance of Thgings Past is not a single book, but a cycle. A la Recherche du Temps Perdu comprises seven volumes. The most famous installment is Swann's Way - Du Côté de Chez Swann. Most readers don't get beyond that book, if at all. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.154 |
"Scorsese? Cronenberg? Joe Wright? Richard Linklater? McGehee and Siegel? Andrew Dominik?" I don't think that these are really in "telly or popular cinema". Where are the (early) Speilbergs or Hitchcocks? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.154 |
I'm guessing Tony would like to suture the division between showman and artist? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Scorsese and Cronenberg not in popular cinema??? Did I imagine Eastern promises and History of violence in the cinema top tens recently? And the Godfathers etc consistantly in the top DVD sales. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
Wasn't Godfather by Coppola? For any and all film trivia and advice, contact Gary Fry at heknowseverythingaboutfilms@watcher.com | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.154 |
"Wasn't Godfather by Coppola?" Yep, and over three decades ago. Eastern Promises was financially successful with respect to its budget; Transformers was popular. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
I always get my gangster film directors mixed. someone please insert massively successful Scorcese gangster film title to stop me making a fool of myself again. more recent the better | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
Goodfellas. Good, I'm good. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.23.233.247 |
You see ... I find the recent Scorseses lacking. And those Cronenbergs. For me almost everything feels so bloody familiar. I feel bored by almost everything. I liked Dark Knight, and The Fountain, because they seemed to be taking us somewhere new and thrilling, but anything else? It feels like it's doing nothing more than hold up the past greats for us to 'have another think about.' | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
I think you need to chill out and stop overanalysing everything. You'll enjoy it all more. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
Tony, I think we've seen some great films over the last few years: Atonement, Dark Knight, Last King of Scotland, Notes on a Scandal, Children of Men, etc. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.231.121 |
I think you need to chill out and stop overanalysing everything.... Methinks I hear me a heretic who's aching for a baking.... I like Ramsey's Linklater example: he's deft at popular t------- work like SCHOOL OF ROCK, but then is wildly inventive and form-shattering with something like WAKING LIFE. There's a joy to his work: a joy at work (both meanings). Even a "mild" piece like FAST FOOD NATION is nevertheless poignant, and marked by some of the most delightfully rich cameos - those who don't like seeing animals being harmed might want to steer (pun?) clear, but you'd be losing so much for doing so. Me, I found both EASTERN PROMISES and A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, ultimately lacking. Un-impression-able. (AHOV alone is the kind of movie you can prophecy the details of each scene as/before it happens - and you don't even have to be a prophet.) Hubert: Have you read the complete Proust cycle?... | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 147.252.230.154 |
"I think you need to chill out and stop overanalysing everything." Wow, but that's patronising. He's not over-analysing. On the contrary, he's lucidly describing his gut feelings. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Not intended as patronising. it just reads like he never just lets his brain chill and sit back and enjoy things. I find that if I try to analyse the reasons that something is good I turn up as many reasons why it isn't and it can spoil my enjoyment of a show/film that I used to like. Maybe I'm just more easily please than other peeps here. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.224.78 |
Craig: no, just Du Côté de Chez Swann, but that's so long ago I don't remember too much of it. That in itself sounds like I didn't like it, but I'm perfectly willing to give it another spin. I was only seventeen and more into Dutch-language 'magic realism' at the time. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.242.126 |
(AHOV alone is the kind of movie you can prophecy the details of each scene as/before it happens - and you don't even have to be a prophet.) Again, I agree with you Craig. I did, however, really like EASTERN PROMISES. Mortenson was excellent and there were enough quirks to mark it out as a bit special. someone please insert massively successful Scorcese gangster film title THE DEPARTED. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.244.86 |
"it just reads like he never just lets his brain chill and sit back and enjoy things." Maybe you should phrase that as a question to Tony rather than an accusation. Can't we be allowed to have differing opinions without having to suffer an ad hominem? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.244.86 |
THE DEPARTED weakens rather than strengthens your case -- it's entertaining and relatively popular, but one of Scorcese's least artistically ambitious films. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.224 |
I'm not against 'fun' films; I really did very much enjoy Transformers - I thought there were moments of sublime artistry within it's boundaries, absolutely (the final scenes are just so stirring) - and even enjoyed the telly Robin Hoods. It's just when something tries to be something above itself, or pretends to act smarter than it is (like so much beeb stuff), or in the case of telly Exorcist seems almost embarrassed to be straighforwardly entertaining it bugs me. And I really struggle to find films with texture, the sense that a maker is trying to reach something beyond a good review in a mag or whatever. If I get bored with a film I can't suppress that and won't; there's not enough time in our life to let things like that take it up. I like 'crap' but only special kinds of crap - with the Grindhouses it felt like there was something wrong in pretending to be crap - it wasn't paying films homage to say they were fun because they were bad, it's doing a disservice to people who were trying their best (however lowly that was), which these makers should also do. Also it lets film down not to want to push it farther, just always keep looking back. Oh, I'm rambling. Never mind. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.242.126 |
Where do you stand on boobies? | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.201.29 |
A question that might be better addressed to Robert Crumb. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 67.116.103.241 |
Where do you stand on boobies? Um, what I'd prefer is - nah, too easy. Okay, so Hubert, you haven't read the entire REMEMBRANCE.... And you, Mr. Campbell...?  | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.192.8 |
I agree with you about Grindhouse, Tony. Some - but by no means all, or even most - of those old movies were endearing and memorable despite being pretty dodgy, but I don't really see much point in emulating them. Why not try something new? I thought Planet Terror was fun at the time, but I remember very little of it now. The other one was just awful, despite having the usually dependable Kurt Russell in it. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
AHOV alone is the kind of movie you can prophecy the details of each scene as/before it happens - and you don't even have to be a prophet Are you complaining because a film follows a template to the letter Mr craig? I really liked both the Grindhouse films | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.3.65.135 |
I liked the Tarrantino. Great gruesome fun. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.224 |
Poor Craig. A template is not the same as being predictable. It feels like he's being hectored for having a view. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
It is. and he is. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
| ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.7.145 |
I was complaining about AHOV specifically, because for almost every scene, I thought to myself: "Now he's going to do this" - he did it; "Now she's going to say this" - she said it; etc. That doesn't make me super-intelligent (the "you don't even have to be a prophet" line): it makes the movie sub-standard fare. Film must deliver what's expected - the template - and then dazzle and amaze us, unexpectedly. I don't mind being hectored, Tony. It come with the territory of being right.  Again, to beat a dead horse: if Ramsey wrote a horror novel, with absolutely zero horror-genre elements... what, Weber, did he in fact write?.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
One of McMahon's books? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Seriously the problem is with the word template - the dictionary definition of which is A preset format. I agree that a horror novel will have a recognisable horror element. But that's nothing to do with preset formats. A template indicates something that is predictable from start to finish as it follows a TEMPLATE. Not me being picky - it's the English language. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.7.145 |
I'm talking about "preset formats," Weber. They're there - they're not inhibiting, which I think you think they are, but necessary. Iambic pentameter with nine syllables is... well, not iambic pentameter. You CAN predict a "rom-com" from the opening frame, with variations of course; but you know the "love interests" will get together in the end, you know there will be a final chase, etc. These are part of the "template." They ARE what IS a "rom-com." If something comes along and purports itself to be a "rom-com," but then doesn't deliver on the goods, it may be a good film, etc.; but AS A ROM-COM, it has failed. Surely we must have some standards here, Weber... McMahon's books notwithstanding.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
I'm talking about "preset formats," Weber. They're there - they're not inhibiting, which I think you think they are, but necessary. Iambic pentameter with nine syllables is... well, not iambic pentameter. You CAN predict a "rom-com" from the opening frame, with variations of course; but you know the "love interests" will get together in the end, you know there will be a final chase, etc. These are part of the "template." So why is AHOV lacking if it's following a preset formula that you can predict? You're contradicting yourself. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.7.145 |
Why do you continue to extract copious sighs from me, Weber?... BeCAAAAAUUUUSSSEEEE [arch-sarcasm intended], I'm talking about elements vs. "specifics" (for lack of a better term). Elements are necessary to make a film what it is - scary elements = horror film. But that doesn't mean around those elements, the filmmakers can not do anything original; give us that which we haven't seen before. I once used the analogy of Christmas for this: you expect wrapped presents underneath the Christmas tree - "template." But what's in those wrapped up presents?... The surprise: something different, something new, something wonderful. If you open the present and get socks, you just saw AHOV. If you open it up and get a McMahon book, you barely had a Christmas at all.... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Why do you continue to extract copious sighs from me, Weber?... because it's fun I was talking about Phineas Mcmahon the rubbish Irish writer. I don't know who you're talking about. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.7.145 |
I was talking about Phineas Mcmahon the rubbish Irish writer. I don't know who you're talking about. Uh, er... me too.  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Last word on this. I have no objection to the point of view that for a story to fit into a category it needs elements that make it fit - a western needs horses and people getting shot, etc and Wizard of Oz would not work as a western. However that is elements, it's not a template. A template is a fixed pattern. A template is not a vague notion that certain elements should be present - it is a fixed pattern. If something follows a fixed pattern even you say it's not good. Having said that, I fail to see how the Mist does not have all the elements you need for a monster movie. It's got monsters and people getting eaten and plenty of shocks and surprises. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.7.145 |
We need a term though for these "fixed pattern"s - which is clumsy and somewhat inaccurate - and therefore, I've nominated, the kitty-killing "template." As to THE MIST - we are getting into a slightly more complex arena. Because you can have two templates (or more) overlapping: you can have "horror" and "feature film" (for lack of better template denotations) working together. I think THE MIST worked, I guess, not much, but it worked, in the "horror" template; in the "feature film" template, it stunk. However, if I got the template wrong, and it was a "Made for TV Movie" template, then it didn't make so many errors after all... but it was presented/sold as a "feature film"... and I demand my money back, just like I'd demand my money back from a Ramsey Campbell advertised-as-horror novel that ended up being a sweepingly-romantic bodice-ripper... the thought of Ramsey writing which, in some ways, is its own horror altogether.... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.224 |
Maybe for template read 'form'? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.242.126 |
You cheeky wee scamps... | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
I was unable to predict A History of Violence, but I wasn't trying. In any case, surely there's power in predictability. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.240.101 |
Yes, a great amount of power in predictability - we simply must know, and to very fundamental degrees, where a film is "going" for us as viewers to even enjoy the experience. Even if that knowing, is knowing we aren't going to be knowing.... I guess AHOV was just one that sticks in my mind as being particularly uncreative, for me at least: all the character reactions, the plot, etc., were all to me, rote, uninspiring. Like going through the motions the whole thing - listless, because I felt like I had uncaringly scripted the film myself. I remember that sex scene on the stairs; I thought, "Well, it's time for some impromptu sex on the stairs now" - and sure enough.... Hey - maybe I did have a psychic episode that ruined it for me. Dammit I hate when that happens! | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Judging the Mist as a feelgood summer blockbuster is equivalent to judging Noddy goes to Toytown as an action thriller. It isn't a feelgood movie. It's a horror movie with scary monsters and damned effective at that. If there was a sense of hope running through the film it would be a far more traditional monster movie but there you go. It ticked every one of my boxes and I loved it. A truly discerning filmgoer will realise that a film goes beyond what has been sold in the trailers and appreciate what's actually there. the number of films that are mis-sold by the trailers is remarkable. eg The trailer for Truman show practically promised another gurning Jim Carrey comedy which we all know it wasn't. I always try to watch films on their own terms and ignore any pre-publicity. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.23.233.247 |
I hate this, this forcing of opinions. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
I'm not trying to force his opinions. I'm trying to destroy his worldview, starting with his theory of films. Once I've done that we can rebuild his personality and we'll have our own RCMB puppet man, we can make hime do whatever we want him to. Mwa ha ha ha ha | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Whoops did i type that out loud and give away our evil plan? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Gone are our hopes for the shambling Craig-puppet-creature shambling through the US of A pausing only to do our evil deeds. dammit | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
I found the staircase scene in A History of Violence moving and disturbing. It isn't "impromptu sex", it's a rape, and the way it develops is more unsettling still. I thought it was quintessenially Cronenberg in its sense of melancholy. I think it's worth making the point that predictability isn't an absolute, it's a perception. Many years ago, when the late Colin Voake was the Radio Merseyside arts producer, I strongly recommended he should watch a television showing of a film he hadn't seen. He later told me that he'd turned it off before the end because it was so predictable. Anyone want to guess what this fifties American feature film was? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Them? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
"It's a Wonderful Life"? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Tarantula? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
No, no, no... It's a Wonderful Life is actually 1946 (that's the original, not the Jim Carrey - Jennifer Lopez version). | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Tammy & the Bachelor? | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.153.151 |
Vertigo? | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.153.151 |
The Searchers? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
I'd say Debbie does Dallas but that was 1978 | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.153.151 |
Then that should be Debbie did Dallas... | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Is that the 1979 sequel? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.230 |
Sunset Boulevard? Twelve Angry Men? | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
West Side Story? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
...no, no, no... | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.7.77 |
The Asphalt Jungle? La Ronde? | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.7.77 |
Yes I know La Ronde isn't American.... | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.253.174.81 |
On the Waterfront? The Deadly Mantis? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
At least give us a clue!  | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.7.77 |
The Bad and the Beautiful? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
It has to be a film with an unpredictable ending... Er... ??? My usual powers relating to film trivia are low today. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.7.77 |
To Catch a Thief? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
That's a twisty one. It got me. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
It wasn't Don't Look Now was it? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
50s??? Jon, you're worse than me, mate. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.7.77 |
The Killing? | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.252.53 |
Weber told me to say - perhaps my perception of the staircase-sex-scene was contingent upon my downward spiral viewing experience of AHOV: objectivity can be lost in transit, perhaps; viewing experiences are complex matters. Now I am awaiting Weber's next command. ... Kiss Me Deadly? | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
I have no brain. Mega work stress at the moment. Writing is helping though. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Let's scare jessica to death | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Oh, that's 1971. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Jungle Jim in Pygmy island? It happens every Thursday? Ma and Pa Kettle back on the farm? The Saga of the Viking Women and Their Journey To the Waters of the Great Sea Serpent ? Attack of the killer shrews? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 160.6.1.47 |
Kiss Me Deadly | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.153.151 |
Ooh, two votes for KISS ME DEADLY - I'll make that a third so's I can wallow in the glory... | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 160.6.1.47 |
That was an accident, Mick. I didn't see an earlier voite for it and I haven't even seen KMD, but I think I know the ending. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.7.77 |
Was KISS ME DEADLY AGAIN a remake Mick? | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.153.151 |
I've never heard of that, Ally, so I don't know - be surprised if it was, somehow. edit - just had a look on imdb and it doesn't seem to know of that film either, but it does list summat called KISS ME AGAIN... | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.153.151 |
Proto - you must see it! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.16.77.216 |
Kiss Me Deadly is an absolute must see. It's influences loom large in Pulp Fiction and Lost Highway - think those films, and you get some of the flavor of KMD. And, it's a great hardboiled detective flick, so if you're like me, and LOOOOOVE that genre, well.... btw: The original very ending to KMD for decades was cut out, and has only recently been reinstated... which, indeed, does change its final tone dramatically.... | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Alas! The film that was so predictable that the chap couldn't be bothered with it was............................................................................. ................................................................................ ................................................................................ ................................................................................ ................................................................................ ................................................................................ ................................................................................ ................................................................................ .................................................................. Laughton's The Night of the Hunter. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.157.125.161 |
Thank God for that. I'll sleep tonight now. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.7.77 |
Bloody hell..so will I. More of this please - the torment is torture... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.237.99 |
I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT!!!!! (I swear I was...) (no really...) | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.242.126 |
You're so predictable. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.3.212 |
Because it was #2 on the film list. And Ramsey had started this thread by posting that list. So putting two and two together... I should have gone with my gut, and said that. Hey, I didn't read all those Agatha Christies all those years for nothing! | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.224 |
I feel awful because I sort of agree that Night of the Hunter is predictable. I didn't even like it at first. But then it has a nice feel and atmosphere, and this feels like it's point. Oh God, I say this about everything I like... | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 38.113.181.169 |
But... you never said this about me...!  |