| Author | Message | ||
     Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yoN6XfyQsr4  | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.74.96.200 |
I like the way folk like Louis Walsh attempt to reinvent the Beatles as the first boyband, to give Boyeastwestzonelife17 some credibility . . . | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.238.19 |
Well, in the beginning they WERE just a boyband, weren't they? All that changed when George Martin started toying around with the concept, introducing Elizabethan strings and Bach picolo trumpets and so on. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
That piccolo in Penny Lane was McCartney's idea. He heard it in one of Bach's Brandenburg concerti. Martin just provided the know-how. And Martin based his string score for Eleanor Rigby on Herrmann's Psycho music. So there. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.74.96.200 |
>>Well, in the beginning they WERE just a boyband, weren't they? Oh yeah, you're right: singing nothing but cover versions and playing no instruments. That'd be them!  | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 172.143.243.34 |
"Boyeastwestzonelife17" | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 172.143.243.34 |
Does anyone else think the treatment of Heather Mills is distasteful? | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.238.19 |
Well, not in the Boyeastwestzonelife17 sense, then  | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.238.19 |
Don't get me wrong, I'm a Beatles fan, albeit slightly more into the later albums. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 172.143.243.34 |
@ Mick Just listened to it - BRILLIANT! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
>>Does anyone else think the treatment of Heather Mills is distasteful?<< Yep. | ||
| Matthew_fell (Matthew_fell) Username: Matthew_fell Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 216.232.103.134 |
>>Does anyone else think the treatment of Heather Mills is distasteful?>> Nope. If she wants to go around posing nude without her wooden leg, as here: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0604_mucca.shtml she deserves everything that's headed her way. Christopher | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Yeah, she could have at least left her wooden leg on whilst posing nude. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.203 |
Wow! Is it too late to say I like her? I say tie her to a lamppost and cut her hair off. It is after all the next step. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
If the things she said about him are true then he's a cock.If not then she is a minge. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
Iar R. McLeod wrote a great 'alternative history' story in which Lennon left the Beatles before the first album had been recorded. He goes to see them at the NEC in the eighties and they're just an ageing boy band on the nostalgia circuit, like the Bay City Rollers. Except the Rollers, tragically, never played together with a complete line-up after their split. Les went one way and the rest went another. Sniff. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
What do these Boyzone and Westlife fans know about boy bands anyway? The Bay City Rollers, there was a boy band. Not some inert neutered polite cardiganed insomnia cure. They had sex. They had tartan. I don't have a life. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Tony - I was being sarcastic; I don't quite see why an amputee posing nude is deserving of "everything that's headed her way". I think the media's treatment of the lass is dispicable. Let's face it, though, the image of a strong-wileld woman sticking up for herself is for some reason abhorent in certain sections of our society. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.121.214.11 |
Lets face it though. It must be hard for her to walk away from a relationship like that...  | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
If the things she said about him are true then he's a cock.If not then she is a minge. That's brilliant! Albie; you should be a lawyer! | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
Albie, you're very talented, mush. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.16.77.126 |
I liked Weber's comment better....  ... encore, Mr. Gregston?... | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.179.211 |
"Lets face it though. It must be hard for her to walk away from a relationship like that..." She wouldn't have a leg to stand on... | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.74.96.200 |
The way I hear it, she's a hard person to like, but one you can sort of admire. I dunno. No enough facties. Roseanna Cash wrote an alt history Lennon away from the Beatles tale too. It's in John Harvey's small press anthology, BLUE LIGHTNING, if memory's working. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
When you divvy up The Beatles' song catalogue in terms of what Lennon wrote and what McCartney wrote, Lennon is completely and inexplicably overrated. Discuss. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
"Imagine there's no Lennon. It's easy if you try." | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.121.214.11 |
Paul gave her a plane for her birthday one year while they were married. And a ladyshave for the other leg  I'll get me coat | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
When you divvy up The Beatles' song catalogue in terms of what Lennon wrote and what McCartney wrote, Lennon is completely and inexplicably overrated. Is it that obvious from song info? I thought most were attributed to Lennon & MacCartney (or MacCartney & Lennon on their first album) so not so obvious who did what. However, it does seem that, on the evidence of stuff written by both since the split, that Macca had the tunes, but Lennon the lyrics (not in all cases though; some of Lennon's writings were beyond simplistic). | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.144.43.62 |
"...When you divvy up The Beatles' song catalogue in terms of what Lennon wrote and what McCartney wrote, Lennon is completely and inexplicably overrated. Discuss."" Well nowwwwww.... I think McCartney was the more disciplined of the two when it came to writing...He was more prolific. But for every classic by Macca you could have.... Strawberry Fields Forever Tomorrow Never Knows She Said Julia Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds I'm So Tired ...And many more. They are both great songwriters -probably both peaked when writing together. Frog Chorus? hmm. gcw | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
I think Paul McCartney's post-Beatles output has been terrible, apart from a couple of Wings songs. His writing is overly sentimental and his tunes are catchy in that horrible cheap way. I personally think he's a songwriter who needs a partner of a more cynical bent to compliment is tendency towards sugary pop: his stuff with Lennon was, of course, superb, and he also wrote well with Elvis Costello. Of the two, I'd say McCartney is much more overrated than Lennon. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
>>>I think Paul McCartney's post-Beatles output has been terrible, apart from a couple of Wings songs How much have you actually listened to? >>>I personally think he's a songwriter who needs a partner of a more cynical bent to compliment is tendency towards sugary pop I tire of hearing this laziest of cliches. McCartney wrote Helter Skelter, Lennon wrote Bungalow Bill, etc. GCW, I reckon Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is actually a poor song. Its two parts just don't work together very well, combined as they are by two clumsy thumping chords. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
Just a few non-Wings McCartney solo classics: Maybe I'm Amazed Calico Skies Beautiful Night The whole album RAM Jenny Wren Waterfalls Only Mama Knows You Tell Me That Was Me House of Wax Driving Rain Only Love Remains Footprints Angry Some fine songs there. I agree that he can be a bit naff at times, but I just don't get this Lennon thing. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.144.9.139 |
"...GCW, I reckon Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is actually a poor song. Its two parts just don't work together very well, combined as they are by two clumsy thumping chords..." You are completely right...And yet (IMHO) so wrong, yes LSD is at its heart a very simple song (two parts & joined by two rigourous Tom whacks from Ringo)...But I challenge anyone not to yell out that chorus which follows immediately after, and go ...aaaaah in the appropriate places. that to me, makes a perfect pop song, Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds is that,I think. Wish I'd wrote it! Funny how people perceive songs...I really like Good Morning,Good Morning off 'Pepper, yet even Lennon dismissed that as 'a piece of shit'! gcw  | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.144.9.139 |
...I think that you should always of be careful of putting musicality & ability above a song which hits you in the gut. Lennon lacked the chops of McCartney, but he bared his soul more. Macca was a craftsman in the Beatles, but when they started to write apart his songs (with some exceptions) started to become bland. Rocky Racoon I Will Martha My Dear Honey Pie Obla Di Obla da Maxwell's Silver Hammer ...I'd take a Revolution over that lot anyday! gcw | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
But that's just selective bias: in amongst those later songs, Mc wrote: Get Back Lady Madonna Mother Nature's Son Golden Slumbers Oh, Darling! You Never Give Me Your Money Hey Jude Let It Be The Long and Winding Road | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
She's Leaving Home Back In The USSR Here, There and Everywhere Eleanor Rigby For No One Sergeant Pepper's With a Little Help from my Friends The Fool on the Hill Penny Lane Bland? | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
Yeah, but, no but... fact is, I'm not aware of any way of measuring a song's quality beyond commercial success or critical acclaim. Most of the Beatles Macca stuff was superb, but I'd rather listen to "How Do You Sleep?" and several other tracks from IMAGINE (although not the title track itself, as I'm not too impressed by that) than to anything on Band On The Run, which I recently purchased to see if my opinion of it, formed on its release, had changed. It hasn't. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
Commercial success and critical acclaim are probably negatively correlated with the quality of the music. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
Band On The Run is a fine album. From the quirky title track to the drunken wit of Picasso's Last Words to harmonies of Bluebird to the showstopping Let Me Roll It to the awesome Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Four, to, to... Good album. Mc doing what he does best. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five, even. Oh well. (George.) | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
Commercial success and critical acclaim are probably negatively correlated with the quality of the music. I would agree with that - what I meant was that there are no measures of music beyond those, and no technical ones at all that I'm aware of - it's what moves you that counts. And Band on the Run may well be a fine album to most, but it leaves me cold, with no wish to listen to it again. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.236.211 |
Mull of Kintyre! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
Solid, simple folksong brutalised by incommensurate success. It's like a common paramedic stretcher trying to support a sick elephant. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
I like Mull of Kintyre. It makes me want to eat Scottish toffee. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
Gary, your list of McCartney-penned Beatles songs only reinforces, to my mind, the overall principle that the core of originality, passion and guts in the Beatles was Lennon. Songs like 'Penny Lane' and 'Eleanor Rigby' and 'Lady Madonna' are skilful but conventional and sentimental. And without Lennon's influence, McCartney descended fast into Tin Pan Alley. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
>>>originality, passion and guts Well, if those are your only criteria of worthiness, it's hard to argue against your conclusion. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
I think exuberance is a worthy characteristic, and conventional not an ignoble one. A great deal of Mozart fits this criteria. Not all good art needs to break things. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
(I'm not trying to debunk Lennon, just as I'm not trying to say McCartney is a truly great composer. I'm just challenging the assumption many have that Lennon was the more important of the two.) | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
(In any case, as I've said before, The Beatles are seriously overrated. Not their fault. But they are. Both Lennon and McCartney have said since that they were just "a good little band".) | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
...and back again to the thread's title! Neatly done! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
It was a song cycle. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.0.203 |
Let me pause from my chewing of broken glass here.... Lennon's BEATLES speaks to me more, of late; but I can easily see a time when McCartney's will, like it did. I went through a phase where Harrison was supremely, unfairly overlooked, too. There are times when (in the 1975+ [but not 1985+] incarnation) Stevie's' FLEETWOOD MAC is nonpareil. Then, her work seems stale and sentimental, and the fiercely playful energy of Lindsay is the sole authentic record of the band. Lately, they're both too affected: the oh-so-subtle-it's-painful Christie's MAC is the only songwriter's voice worth hearing. Now ask me again tomorrow. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
Nooooooo! Fleetwood Mac was a blues band! (Chorus of "here we go again"!) - Nicks & Buckingham certainly made the band hugely popular, much more so than they were before, but the band changed utterly. I recall one of the times I saw them live, in the 'eighties at some point, and they looked bored as hell until Stevie Nicks walked off for yet another costume change and the band launched into two blues instrumentals. We were two rows from the stage and that was the only time they looked as if they'd come alive... | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
Well said, Mick! Peter Green was (and perhaps still is) a genius, and early Mac songs like 'Need Your Love So Bad' and 'Jumping At Shadows' are among the best blues recordings ever made in the UK. Green pissed on Clapton from such a height in the sixties that the clouds got in the way. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.228.215 |
Mick: I love early/pre-75 Mac, sure, own every single album. I was just making a point concentrating on this incarantion. Which, I love equally - or admittedly a bit more?... By MIRAGE they were immersed in decadence, and the rest is silence... except for some great Buckingham cuts off TANGO IN THE NIGHT... different music entirely from early Mac, sure... though TUSK remains my all-time favorite "rock" album... best? surely not... just my for-some-reason favorite... now I'm rambling.... | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
Interesting you say that about TUSK, Craig - it's a strange one, that - I liked a lot of it when it came out, then hated it, then sort of liked it again... Joel, the only time I've seen Peter Green so far was when his 'Splinter Group' were supporting John Mayall five or six years back - the stuff Green did with Fleetwood Mac was amazing, and he's still a great performer, but it does seem he's lost something after all the problems he went through. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 84.43.127.247 |
..gcw 'ere again! I love both McCartney's songs & Lennon's in the BEATLES. Equally, I don't think either of them ever matched their glorious creative run after say...1971. ". But that's just selective bias: in amongst those later songs, Mc wrote: " Thats selective bias from you too Mr.Fry sir! Gotta go...House shit etc..blah. ps. I actually quite like Mull of Kintyre! - there's nothing wrong with a bit of simple sentimentality in a song... pps. Gary Fry...how do you like Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys? I would wager that groundbreaking pop album would be right up your street. gcw | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.236.211 |
Pet Sounds is erm . . . fab! My favourite track has got to be "Don't Talk (Put your Head on my Shoulder)". I used to listen to the boxed set a lot, the one with all the alternative takes and insightful booklet. Timeless. Couldn't get into SMILE, though. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
SMILE is a bit strange, isn't it? PET SOUNDS has some superb moments, it must be said... | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.236.211 |
Did you see the accompanying dvd? The only thing I remember about it is that fireman's helmet. Ah well, I suppose that's just Wilson's extraordinary sense of humour | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
No Hubert - I've only heard the original - no outtakes, DVDs or extras, unfortunately. | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.208.214.54 |
Mick - Just picked up this thread & I liked that song enough to have played it twice already. Joel - Is the Ian McCleod story you're referring to 'Snodgrass' from Best New Horror 4? That's an excellent little tale. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
>>>I think Paul McCartney's post-Beatles output has been terrible, apart from a couple of Wings songs How much have you actually listened to? >>>I personally think he's a songwriter who needs a partner of a more cynical bent to compliment is tendency towards sugary pop I tire of hearing this laziest of cliches. McCartney wrote Helter Skelter, Lennon wrote Bungalow Bill, etc. I've heard enough to know it's not my cup of tea, old bean. Just like I've only read 4 or 5 Hutson novels, and I know I don't like his stuff. And Helter Skelter is only "dark" and "cynical" because of the manson association - the song itself has no cynicism, and was written, I believe, as an attempt to write a song that would out-rock The Rolling Stones... it has a good tune but it doesn't do that. I do love Eleanor Rigby, though. I actually assumed Lennon had written that one - I'll bet he at least had some input. Once again, though, this whole thing seems to be about taste. Each to his own, and all that... | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
But Hutson's incompetent (by even his own admission). Compare like with like. Hey, I'm no McCartney apologist. But it's interesting that on the basis of this thread, I can see what aspects of 'art' are regarded here as more important than others: dark, cynical, tough, gutsy, passionate, original, etc. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
That's why we're drawn to the extremes of genre, mate. We like the dark. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
That's fine. I am, myself. As long as this tacit criteria of worthiness (which is taste, really) doesn't rule out other work which doesn't fit so well. It strikes me that if that were so, we'd lose such disparate works as Brief Encounter, Mozart's 41st symphony (a blaze of joy), all of P G Wodehouse, etc. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
P.G. Wodehouse? Bittersweet portraits of alcoholism, loneliness, dysfunctional families, rural blight and incipient dementia. Thoughtful downbeat comedy ill-served by crudely farcical TV and stage adaptations. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
That's just the Blandings Castle novels, of course. Much of the rest is a great deal lighter. Wodehouse's American novels are pretty bleak at times, though. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
Yeah, al'right, Captain Miseriblist. :<) | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
Here's a question: we all know that happiness writes white on the page, but is music able to express joy in a way that fiction struggles to? And am I turning into Des Lewis? :<) | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
And no-one ever seems to notice that Bertie Wooster is an alcoholic. If it weren't for Jeeves he'd spend half his life in the gutter and the other half in the Priory. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
>>we'd lose such disparate works as Brief Encounter<< Brief Encounter aches; it's a superbly melancholy film. or is it just me? >>Here's a question: we all know that happiness writes white on the page, but is music able to express joy in a way that fiction struggles to<< Interesting question. I'd probably say yes, but that's a personal response. I actually like a lot of joyous classicial music. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
Zed, it's just you. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
>>>Brief Encounter aches; it's a superbly melancholy film. So does 'The Long and Winding Road'. Hahaha. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
I suspect Joel thinks BE is about a middle-class ninny with a cardboard cut-out husband. Well, it is, but I still love it. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 61.216.37.190 |
For me, the subject matter isn't really that important. It's what's done with it that counts. Works of art (whether written, musical, or other) need not be 'dark' or of the 'heavy' persuasion to be powerful and intensely moving. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.6.187 |
If Captain Kirk and Captain Picard were engaged in a starship battle, which would be their favorite Beatle...?  | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
That's easy. Kirk – McCartney. Picard – Harrison. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.236.211 |
I think it's perfectly possible for music to evoke moods similar to the ones experienced through reading. The pastoral sound of the old Genesis (think Nursery Cryme, Selling England) goes very well together with M.R. James and Arthur Machen in my experience. I remember first reading the passage in "The Great God Pan" where they discover the ancient stone with the Roman text. I was listening to Ange (a french seventies group)in those days; their soaring "De temps en temps" was continuously cascading around in my head and the cummulative effect was positively ecstatic--very much in the Machenian sense. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.74.96.200 |
Truth is probably that as individuals they wrote some great tracks and some not-so-great ones; together, helping each other, they were the best in the world. Had McCartney been shot instead of Lennon, what would people be saying of them today? | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.4.237.146 |
That's easy. Kirk – McCartney. Picard – Harrison. Now is that Kirk-triumphant, and/or Kirk-defeated? And Picard...? | ||
| Barbara Roden (Nebuly) Username: Nebuly Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 216.232.189.45 |
I agree with you about Brief Encounter, Zed; superbly melancholy. And I disagree that the wife is a middle-class ninny with a cardboard-cutout husband; the wife may have been that on the page, or in lesser hands, but Celia Johnson makes her a real person, sharply observed. And while the husband doesn't have much screen time, and it's tempting to dismiss him as a stolid, mundane, unaware blank, don't forget his last line, when he says gently to his wife 'You've been a long way away; thank you for coming back to me', which indicates that perhaps he knows a great deal more than he's been letting on, and has more idea than we realise of what his wife has been going through. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
As I said, I love it. It's the accuracy of the characterisation I admire most of all. The scene where she starts laughing after consulting her husband (who may indeed be listening more than he appears to be) is hugely ambiguous in the sense that she's consciously thinking that she's been fretting over nothing, and yet perhaps subconsciously realising that she's got a green light to pursue the relationship. And when she starts lying to her friends, we realise just how deep she's gone. Splendid writing, and indeed acting. I like the fact that neither lover is classical beautiful. | ||
| Barbara Roden (Nebuly) Username: Nebuly Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 216.232.189.45 |
I also like the way that the relationship between Johnson and Howard is contrasted with the flirtation between Joyce Grenfell's barmaid and Stanley Holloway's porter. Again, these two could have descended into caricature, but both actors make them real people. I'm not generally enamoured of extensive narration in films, but it works well here. And I love the moment when, after they first have lunch together, Johnson wonders if Howard will go home and tell his wife about it, and realises he won't, and suddenly realises the implications of that action (or non-action). | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
Yes, she's wrestling with what is "decent" behaviour right the way through - she calls her behaviour "sordid", etc. The Grenfell/Holloway subplot seems to serve as a explicit and more playful version of the main storyline, which is subdued and deadly serious. There's a class issue there, I guess. Do we get to know whether the Grenfell and Holloway characters are married to others? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.24.122.40 |
And the brilliant Sartrian exchange, which cuts to the heart of love: Her: I want to die. If only I could die... Him: If you'd die, you'd forget me. I want to be remembered. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.156.118.144 |
Gary; I've been downloading some Wings stuff; Mary Had a Little Lamb, Let 'Em In etc. Some of it hits some subtle places Lennon can't with his weird preaching. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.156.118.144 |
Sigh. http://www.kewego.co.uk/video/iLyROoaftvOV.html | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Even better (this one's for Mick Curtis): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjjZsp2hDxk | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8nYAoZkdSI&feature=related Just because it's one of the best animated films ever made. :-) | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
Two great clips from a wonderful film - good choice sir! Although I'm not a great fan of the music, here's a great bit of stop-motion animation used on The Old Grey Whistle Test in '79 for a Zappa tune. I had this on vhs for many years, and used to drag it out when mates were over after we'd all been drinking! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9DAIkAWR-I ...incredibly imaginitive animation imho. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.93.30.31 |
Mick thats a great clip. If you like stop motion stuff- are you familiar with the work of the Brothers Quay? Their version of Bruno Schulz's 'The Street of Crocodiles' is a masterpiece of animation- Well worth getting a hold of their work. Early Tool videos also have powerful stop motion sequences. Good stuff. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
are you familiar with the work of the Brothers Quay? Oh just a teensy bit! I used to go to the London Film Festival's animation shows each year just to catch the latest Brothers Quay film. I have the BFI DVD set of their stuff, THE PIANO-TUNER OF EARTHQUAKES and INSTITUTE BENJAMENTA too. Jan Svankmajer's work is not to be missed either, imo. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Mick, that animation is astonishing - the song's a belter, too, IMHO. | ||
| Matthew_fell (Matthew_fell) Username: Matthew_fell Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 216.232.189.45 |
Coming late to this, I can't not speak up in favour of McCartney's TUG OF WAR album, with such great tracks as Tug of War, Take It Away, Ballroom Dancing (didn't that feature in a movie? Give My Regards to Broad Street?), Wanderlust, Ebony and Ivory. Originally had this on a cassette which got jammed up in the car player, and was very glad to find it again on CD a few years ago. I think McCartney's quality is variable, but we have somewhere a DVD of a live concert he did a few years back, and the one thing that you can say for him is that he is nothing less than an entertainer. Christopher (who'd never call the Beatles 'Just a Band') | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.97.200.24 |
Mick: Excellent, we're both Quay fans then ;-) Institute Benjamenta is one of the great films of fantastic cinema imho. I was slightly dissapointed with The Piano Tuner of Earhquakes- such an ambitious story with not enough means. But still a great film. You know Terry Gilliam made that film happen for them- they still don't get the funding they deserve which is just a travesty considering their contribution to cinema. And Svankmajer was a genius. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
It's a very sad world we live in when Sir Paul McCartney and his wife are going through a stressful divorce and all anyone seems to want to do is make jokes about her false leg. > Personally, I think it's prosthetic. > News reports have confirmed that Paul McCartney has separated from his wife Heather Mills-McCartney. Mrs Mills-McCartney is said to be distraught over the split. "He has been my crutch for so long"! She said in an earlier briefing, "I have no idea why this has happened, I'm really stumped" > "She's running around in circles", according to a close friend, "she will need all the support she can get. It's not like its easy to walk out on a relationship like this" > After his break up with Heather, Paul was asked if he would ever consider going down on one knee again. Paul said he would prefer it if we called her Heather. > It is not known whether a pre-nuptial agreement was signed prior to the marriage. Paul McCartney is one of the richest men in the world, and if an agreement has been signed it is believed that she won't have a leg to stand on. > Rumours abound over the split which have suggested that infidelity may have been the cause. "She's terrible" a source stated, "always trying to get her leg over". > Another source has suggested that her battle with alcoholism was the cause. "Macca couldn't handle it anymore" a friend said, "he would get home at night and find her legless" > Many have attributed this to a problem which started with the present that Paul bought her prior to the wedding. He gave her a new prosthetic leg for Christmas but that was just a stocking-filler. A miner in Africa has an accident and loses a leg. He says to his mate "I'm f---ed, who will want a one legged gold digger?" His mate says "try Paul McCartney" > Finally a poem by Sir Paul McCartney: I lay upon a grassy bank My hands were all a quiver I slowly removed her suspender belt and her leg fell in the river > These jokes are funny but lets spare a thought for Paul please. Now she has left him, he's going to struggle to find another woman who can fill her shoe. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
Neither funny nor interesting, Weber. I wish people would stop using "I'm not politically correct" as an excuse for offensiveness. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Ah well I think it's funny | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
There's no such thing as an actually funny joke that isn't potentially offensive to someone. There's always a butt to a joke, someone being victimised in some way, called stupid or mocked somehow. I don't claim a lack of political correctness as the reason I posted those jokes, I genuinely find them funny. Heather Mills has set herself up to be the butt of these jokes far too efficiently. My mother has been in a wheelchair as long as I can remember. If anyone should be offended by jokes about disability its me (or her even more). My mother loved those jokes when I sent them to her. If you want to offend my mother, call her "Physically challenged" instead of disabled or handicapped. That's just condescending, patronising and she takes it as a real insult. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.156.247 |
To be a bit more serious, though - shouldn't she have been charged with contempt of court, as she emptied a glass or jug of water over Macca's lawyer? Plus, lying in court too, as she claimed she'd given loads to charity, but couldn't come up with a single piece of paper to show she'd given owt? Not saying Macca's completely in the right, but HMM comes across as a charmless twat. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
On the subject of lying, recent research indicates Macca could have hidden £50000000 from the court. An unsavoury case with unsavoury characters. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.161.253.183 |
Yeah, neither of them came out of that case shining. Ugly stuff. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.159.65.204 |
Weber – sorry, I didn't mean to attack you personally. Your posting had all the hallmarks of something copied and pasted from a chain e-mail, rather than a personal view. Amputees attract a lot of hostility above and beyond disability as such. Ambrose Bierce wrote a story about a woman who was murdered because she had a toe missing – the cause was genetic, which tends to attract even more hostility. I think a lot of the press coverage of Heather Mills has played on the image of her as a biological freak, not on her questionable conduct in the divorce case. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.249.146 |
Personally, I object simply on the grounds that they're shit jokes. :-) |