| Author | Message | ||
     Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.101.130 |
Attended the press screening of Watchmen last night. I've been waiting twenty years for this film so I deliberately kept my expectations low in order to prevent myself going beserk with an automatic weapon if the film turned out to be rubbish. Good news. I didn't kill anyone. The film's pretty faithful to the comic. Yeah, they've had to ditch subplots and secondary characters which in turn means they've had to tinker with the main plot slightly to accomodate these changes but it's still Watchmen. A streamlined, or diluted if one were being unkind, version of Moore's story to be sure but at least Hollywood didn't turn it into Batman and Robin. Of course it's also very obviously a Zack Snyder film. There's lots of slo-mo and both the action and the gore have been amped up just to remind people that he directed 300 and The Dawn of the Dead remake. The fight scenes are full of wire-fu and at one point become so OTT they make The Matrix look like cinema verite. Whilst the graphic nature of the many maimings and killings had the audience alternating between wincing and applauding. And my friend who blagged me my ticket for the screening was practically traumatised by a gruesome setpiece during the prison scenes. There's about a million other points I could make about the film but the short version is that while the film isn't perfect it's about as good a Hollywood adap as we could expect. And as such it's well worth a look. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Is Alan Moore to comics what John Peel was to Radio One? "Radio one is shit." "Yes, but there's John Peel." "And who else?" "There's John Peel." "Otherwise, it's wall to wall shit." "But there's John Peel." Honestly, in no other genre or medium is one single artist the reference point for every fan. Imagine if Hendrix was the only rock musician anyone gave a damn about. Maybe he should be, but still. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Even though I love the bearded one (and that's not a euphemism) Alan Moore is not the be-all and end-all of comics, although he's certainly the creator who gets referenced the most. His approach to comics changed a lot and could be said to be revolutionary in some quarters. There are, however people like Daniel Clowes, Jeff Smith, Bryan Talbot, Mike Mignola, Neil Gaiman, Johann Sfarr, Bob Byrne who are doing very exciting things in the medium. Quite a lot of comics are shit, but then so are quite a lot of crime, horror, SF, fantasy novels etc etc | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
You missed Grant morrison and Dave Mackean from that list. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Grant is good but his early stuff tends to be better than the stuff he is producing now. Doom Patrol is great. Dave McKean's more a cover than a strip artist isn't he? Thought that he was more in the world of movies and design than comics. Garth Ennis is good too. Check him out if you haven't. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Have you read Arkham Asylum or his collaberations with Gaiman? Awesome stuff. Some of the best drawn Graphic novels/comics ever | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Yeah, I quite like Arkham Asylum. It's a little bit creaky and naive but the art is pretty stunning. I've read Mr Punch, the GN that McKean did with Gaiman. That was very good. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Other NG and DM collaborations - Violent cases (fabulous work) and The Day I swapped my Dad for two goldfish. There's others as well but I can't think off the top of my head. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.165.182 |
Also there's Pat Mills. Two words: Charley's War. That would be enough in itself. And then there's the fact that he created 2000AD in the first place, where Moore and so many others cut their teeth. Say no more. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.69.67.50 |
To my shame I still have to read Charley's War. I may have to get that. I love Nemesis The Warlock, which is probably the best thing that's ever been in 2000 AD. | ||
| Simon Bestwick (Simon_b) Username: Simon_b Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 86.24.165.182 |
Nemesis was fantastic. Torquemada was one of the best villains ever written- the apotheosis of bigotry incarnate. The real brilliance of it was that Mills made the character both ridiculous- downright hilarious on occasion- and terrifying ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Pure genius. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Plus you have the amazing visuals of Kevin O'Neill, Bryan Talbot and John Hicklenton. A class package. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Charley's war is now available as a set of graphic novels. I used to love reading it in Eagle when I were a nipper. Well worth buying (if the fuckbubble allows) | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Well, as long as we're celebrating geniuses of the comic, let me add Walt Kelly, George Herriman, Elsie Segar and Winsor McKay (and, given the format of some of his work, Shaun Tan). | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Charles Schultz too. We went to the Peanuts museum in Schultz's home town when we were in the States last year. Seeing all those original Peanuts strips was a pure joy. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.241.143 |
I fucking adored PEANUTS when I was younger. I'm actually very envious you went to that Peanuts museum. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.182.216 |
I love Winsor McKay, Ramsey. I have the complete Little Nemo - wonderful stuff. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
and Bill Sienkiewicz (Stray Toasters etc), Garth Ennis (Preacher), Chris Ware (Acme novelty Library) Simon Bisley (Slaine, Lobo, Judgement on Gotham), Andrew Kevin Walker (ABC Warriors). Arkham Asylum was beautifully illustrated, but a pretty weak story. I believe Alan Moore described it as 'a turd with a golden frame'. Joel there is only John Peel. :-) | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.192.153 |
Moore's comment is wonderful – though how many weird fiction writers would be so open about their lack of regard for something not in the strictly for profit sub-Hutson sector but aspiring to be considered literary? Can you imagine how different this board would be if we started treating each other like that? None the less, let's just enjoy the immortal phrase and not worry about the etiquette. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Do you have Dreams of a Rarebit Fiend, Huw? | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
And as mentioned above Shaun Tan's work is great: 'The Arrival' is really amazing. And lest we not forget John Bolton, Scott Hampton and Mike Carey. Joel: I am really enjoying The Lost District. I kind of don't want it to end, letting some days pass between the reading of each story. A powerful and amazing collection. So no flaming here. Here is a recent interview with Alan Moore in Wired on the Superhero phenominon in America vs England, the Watchmen movie, on magic (and the 'three'! new League books) http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/magazine/17-03/ff_moore_qa?currentP age=all | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.241.143 |
What about Oor Wullie and The Broons...classics. I have all the old books containing the comic strips.  | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.69.100.50 |
Moore's outspokeness does put my back up a little bit sometimes, especially as I've sort of experienced it second-hand. He is a profoundly good writer, I just think that the bigger he gets the slightly more ornery become his comments. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.195.86 |
Ramsey, yes - I have the Dover editions of Dreams of the Rarebit Fiend and Little Nemo in Slumberland. Later, I found a series of harbacks which I believe make up the 'complete' edition of Little Nemo (I'll have to check this). I think Rarebit Fiend is overlooked to a degree, lying in the shadow of the more colourful and elaborate Nemo adventures, but it is very good in its own right, and very strange and off-kilter. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.195.86 |
Harbacks? Dear me! It seems there have been some new editions of Little Nemo and Rarebit Fiend since I bought the old Dover and Fantagraphic volumes. The Sunday Press books, which reproduce Nemo in its original size, look tempting. Another cartoonist (and painter) I like is Lyonel Feininger. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.110.96 |
I don't think anyone's mentioned Frank Miller yet. Okay, his recent stuff like AllStar Batman is complete rubbish but The Dark Knight Returns and most of his other '80s output was amazing. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.244.22.235 |
> I don't think anyone's mentioned Frank Miller yet. Okay, his recent stuff like AllStar Batman is complete rubbish but The Dark Knight Returns and most of his other '80s output was amazing. Actually, as much as I love Watchmen, I always -slightly- preferred "The Dark Knight Returns". I also like various of his 1980s- early 1990s comics and graphic novels. Ronin. Elektra. Hardboiled. Daredevil:born again. Batman year one. The first Sin City book etc. On the other hand I never really got into Martha Washington. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
Jonathan : I think that Moore might have gotten a little coarse over the decades considering the manner in which he has been treated, particularly by the film industry yes? and this might make him make some pretty blunt statements. Sometimes they're a little much, like Harlan Ellison might make statements that are a little much, but often I find that both gentlemen say stuff that needs to be said. But as Joel says, not too cool if people are hacking away... I was pretty young when I read Arkham Asylum, and I thought it was lovely at the time, the art blew me away. Then returning to it later I realized that the story maybe wasn't quite as powerful as the art. Maybe I should look at it again.... But I still treaure the book and I still think's its a breath of fresh air. And don't forget that Mckean did write and draw CAGES- which is a major and important conribution to the graphic story. He also did PICTURES THAT TICK- a collage of short graphic stories and photography which is a lovely tome. I could never get around Miller's treatment of women in his stories- and that kind of gets in the way for me, even if he's going for a so-called post modern approach. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.110.96 |
No, I never really got into Martha Washington either. (Pauses while the more smutty-minded readers snigger.) Oh, and as we're including newspaper strips then I've got to mention Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes. Plus all the old school adventure stuff by Alex Raymond, Hal Foster, Milton Caniff etc. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.110.96 |
Trying to think of positive female characters in Miller's work. Martha Washington might be one although I never finished buying the series so I can't say for certain how the character developed. Sarah Essen from Batman: Year One is pretty cool, Gloriana O'Breen from Daredevil: Born Again, Carrie Kelly as Robin (until Miller spoils it all in DK2 by turning her into a jailbaity Catwoman). As for Arkham Asylum, my opinion of it varies depending on how generous I'm feeling when I reread it. My general feeling is that it's way too pretentious. Interestingly Morrison wanted it drawn in a more Brian Bolland style but then McKean came on board and did it his way. I read somewhere the script was rewritten to fit in with various themes and ideas that Bolland wanted to work on. Also, iirc it was bowdlerised due to the first Tim Burton Batflick coming out and Warner Bros worrying that AA would lead to the film getting a higher certificate, preventing all the kiddywinks handing over their dosh to see it. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.69.44.75 |
Lord yes, the way Millar depicts women is utterly reprehensible. Sin City is a very unpleasent movie at it's heart and the comic series isn't much better. Dark Knight Returns is very very good. I think that the thing I object to about Moore is how he dismisses work that isn't his own out of hand, as being lesser. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.98.118 |
I suppose Casey McKenna from Ronin is one of Miller's better attempts at writing a strong female character. And while someone like Gail from Sin City appears to be intended as a strong character there's still the fact that her strength seems to come from her willingness to sell herself for sex. Offhand I can only think of one example of a female character in Sin City not giving the impression of enjoying being a prostitute. I tried to address this in my story for The Mammoth Book of Future Cops. The heroine was a standard Miller femme fatale/assassin type except she DOESN'T enjoy using sex to ensnare her targets, it disgusts her to do so, but it's part of her job. Probably not the most original take on the idea but at least it wasn't all surface and no substance like Sin City. | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
My main annoyance with Frank Miller is that after doing so much good work to change the publics attitude to comics in the 80s, he's spent most of the last fifteen years or so dragging it right back again. The later Sin City volumes in particular seem consist of little other than breasts and bullets with little substance in between (which conjures up quite an image...) Anyway, while we're adding to the role call of comics writers who aren't Alan Moore (Joel's comment above nicely straddles both ignorance and truth - quite a talent), I'd like to chuck in Charles Burns, Garth Ennis, Art Spiegelman, Will Eisner (who has just been desecrated by Millar in his The Spirit movie), and David Hine. As well as the ones mentioned above. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
John I agree with what you say regarding Miller and the rather strange shift from his comic work and on into film. Maybe Rodrigez had an influence on that-- on the female representations. But Tarantino does the same and his female leads are very different. And yes Will Eisner is also considered a giant, though I have to admit that I still have to read lots of his work. Just his work on the Spirit is ten very expensive collected volumes... We also musn't forget Warren Ellis and then Steve Niles who wrote the very fine 30 Days of Night comics, powerfully illustrated by Templesmith whos art is really great. And there is also Jodorowsky and that whole school of lovely comics and the Manara erotic stuff and the Otomo (Akira) school which is amazing as well. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Yes to Charles Burns! I adore his very strange, very dark, horror-tinted sense of surrealism. Garth is fantastic too. Preacher is a must read for people who really want to know what good comics are about, although it does suffer from Ennis putting in one too many dick jokes along the way. Something he is very very fond of. However, that's not to say he isn't a brilliant writer capable of pushing the boundaries while displaying just what comics are best at. Miller is symptomatic of what a lot of comics are saddled with. It's very very much the case with the video game industry too. Tits and ass and sex and violence, written by people who never managed to mature of have any meaningful relationships along the way. A lot of comics just reinforce stereotypes. Having said that, good comics break this mold and are worth their weight in gold. They do things that prose and cinema cannot. Warren Ellis I like but I think that he can get overly ranty and political at the expense of a good story. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.99.194 |
Imho Preacher is a weird example of a potentially great comic coming undone through Ennis becoming self-indulgent (e.g. an entire page devoted to Herr Starr "hilariously" trying on hats when the end of the series is looming and Ennis still hasn't tied together all the plot threads) whilst simultaneously trying so hard that his themes stretch beyond his writing ability (e.g. can a Nazi ever redeem himself for the atrocities he committed?). It's frustrating 'cos when the comic was good it was brilliant. Although I remember Ennis mentioning in the letters page that half the complaints about the series were that there was too much toilet humour and not enough serious stuff and the other half said there was too much serious stuff and not enough toilet humour. So Ennis decided the hell with it and just carried on writing it exactly how he wanted to. Which is fair enough I suppose even if personally I was a bit disappointed with the results. I always thought Hitman was a more consistent example of his writing skills but then that wasn't slagging off religion while being all sweary and it features cameos from Batman and Superman so it was never as cool to namecheck as Preacher. And his run was on The Punisher Max was awesome. He took a series about a cliched gun-toting vigilante and turned it into a compelling character study as well as a critique of modern America. (He even manages to condense the entire plot of Preacher into one line. "Sometimes I'd like to get my hands on God.") | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
Agree that Preacher did start to fall apart after a while, and the climax was particularly underwhelming. But when it worked, it was truly cracking stuff. Re: Charles Burns - this might be covered on another topic, but did anyone see Fear(s) of the Dark? Worth a watch, although it's a bit hit and miss and a lot of the stories just seem to fizzle out. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.111.151 |
No, not seen it. Don't even remembering hearing about it. My only experience of Burns's work is Big Baby. Been ages since I read it but I just remember being disappointed. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
I really liked Big Baby. That was what got me into Burns. His artwork is stunning. Preacher was probably too long for its own good, but it's still better than most comics out there. Next comic I really want to read is Joe Hill's Locke and Key. I've seen the GN around but haven't been able to afford it as of yet. At the moment working my way through Ennis's run on Punisher, which is very good indeed. Then I have Talbot's Heart of Empire to read. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 85.158.137.195 |
Watched this week's Film 2009 yesterday and was interested to hear a fair bit of Philip Glass over the clips of WATCHMEN, mainly Pruitt Igoe and another piece, both taken from the soundtrack to KOYAANISQATSI. Anyone know if these pieces are in the film, or where they just used on't telly? | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.111.151 |
Can't remember if there was any Glass in the film but there's some Wagner, Dylan, Hendrix and Cohen. Apparently there's some My Chemical Romance as well but I wouldn't have recognised that. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
I thought Preacher worked all the way through- including the meandering middle sections and the big showdown at the end. And what a set of memorable covers that series had! I bought the entire run of single issues all at once just to have the comics with the covers as they originally appeared... | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Yup, covers by Glenn Fabry. I've published some of his early black and white stuff and it's just as gorgeous. His work on Slaine was particularly good. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
Very cool! I have seen the Slain covers I think?-- were they those delux paperback reissues?-- though just this once I find that the Bisley Slain covers rule supreme! Whatever happened to Simon Bisley? He did those Bible / Frazetta illustrations he released and then I can't seem to find too much more of his artwork... | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Fabry's work on Slaine was strip work in the main and black and white. The covers you've seen are probably Simon Bisley. Bisley's still around, I had a drink with him last year at San Diego. Still a force of nature. Mainly a covers man these days. We were going to do an exhibition of the Bislety Bible work last year at Greenbelt but we couldn't get hold of him in time. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
There you go- Can't you get him to do more Lobo comics! I only had the collected Slaine book (mind boggingly amazing art) but there were some reissues in special format which were not Bisley I'm sure. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Trying to get Bisley to do something for you ain't easy. There's a hardback Slaine trilogy out called Books of Invasions with art by Clint Langley that's very striking. | ||
| John Llewellyn Probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.10.193.63 |
I've just watched 'Watchmen' and I have to say I really enjoyed it. It's a bloody long film (getting on for three hours) but it flies by. As Stu says, it's about as faithful to the graphic novel (still the only one I've ever read) as you could ever really hope. The no-star cast is a very good idea, the complex backstories are never less than engrossing and told in such a way that they merge almost seamlessly with the ongoing story. Lovely opening title sequence to get everyone up to speed as to the alternate universe in which the story is set, the sort of decent sex and violence you (well I) always think should be in those Marvel things but never is, and Zack Snyder's directing style hardly ever gets in the way except for the odd over the top matrix-style fight. I thought this was very good indeed. | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
Ugh - I can't stand Glenn Fabry's art - he makes everyone's face look like the underside of a particularly diseased penis. Anyway, up to the IMAX for Watchmen yesterday and I must say I enjoyed it immensely. It translated the story with style, intelligence and some genuine emotion. The performances all felt spot on and it was visually striking. I have a couple of qualms here and there - a couple of sequences were skipped through a little too quickly, some of the action sequences were a tad over-stylised and there were a few soundtrack clunkers - but all in all a pretty good translation. Importantly, there were a couple of people in our group who were unfamiliar with the original comic and they thoroughly enjoyed it. And lets face it, that's the basis on which the film will live or die. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.77.73.41 |
Right, here's a question. What five Graphic Novels would you give to a non comic reader to get them into comics, and you're only allowed one Alan Moore. Here's my list: 1. Watchmen (obviously) 2. Ghostworld by Daniel Clowes 3. Hellboy by Mike Mignola 4. Black Hole by Charles Burns 5. Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller (even though he has since become shite) Interesting critique of Fabry, John. There is a certain 'grizzled' quality to his covers but his early black and white stuff is well worth a look. His fantasy art is particularly striking on Slaine. Mind you, no one drew a dragon quite as well as Belardinelli. He was terrible at faces though. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.77.73.41 |
"the sort of decent sex and violence you (well I) always think should be in those Marvel things but never is" Marvel have since started developing a more adult range of comics called Max. Ennis's run on Punisher is particularly dark. | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
Five comics for a non-comic reader, in no particular order: 1. Strange Embrace - David Hine 2. V for Vendetta - Alan Moore and David Lloyd 3. Black Hole - Charles Burns 4. The Complete Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers by Gilbert Shelton 5. And, for something new, maybe the first volume of Fables - dubious politics aside. Part of me really wants to pop the Collected Hook-Jaw in here, just for jollies. Ah, 'Action' - the comic nasty of my youth. | ||
| Stu (Stu) Username: Stu Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 86.29.108.196 |
Mick, apparently the Glass is in the film. Enjoy. As for comics for non-comics readers, that's always a tricky one. A lot of the time I'll attempt to tailor my recommendations to the individual's tastes. E.g. one of my friends recently wanted to try comics but said she couldn't understand the way the words and pictures related to each other. So I gave her a Calvin and Hobbes collection -- for the most part it's just pictures and speech balloons plus the occasional sound effect; it's not all cluttered up with captions and stuff. Plus, being a newspaper strip there's a minimum of confusion as to what order to read the panels, just start at the left, work your way across the page and then stop; no confusing overlapping of panels and speech ballons or captions here. But the short strips often build up into longer storyarcs so it teaches how to read long form comics as well. And although it's a gag strip Calvin's daydreaming allows for Fantasy and SF elements which was something my friend wanted to read. Plus it's sweet, touching and funny as hell. So basically my list for top five comics would change drastically depending who I'm talking to. That said the list below contains a cross-section of SF, Fantasy, Horror, Crime and slice of life stuff. The comics storytelling is fairly accessible. And offhand I think they can all be read as standalone stories. 1. Watchmen 2. The Dark Knight Returns 3. Hellblazer: Dangerous Habits 4. Sandman: Season of Mists 5. Box Office Poison (I wanted to say The Complete Strangers in Paradise Vol 1 but offhand I'm not sure that includes the full first storyarc.) | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.132.103 |
I saw WATCHMEN last night... pretty good. Usual problems of comic-derived films: sketchy join-the-dots characterisation and sketchier spot-the-reference thematic texture – it's a way of thinking that only works frame by frame, one point at a time, with even the subtext being atomised and sprayed in place. Nothing has any connection to reality except at the surface, where the connections have bolts sticking out of them. But the film has the saving graces of irony, creativity and good editing. It engages the viewer's intelligence instead of just flattering it. Above all, it doesn't pretend to be more than it is: a skilful postmodern take on its own genre, with flakes of political anger mixed in to add roughage and stop the whole going through your system too easily. And the scene on Mars is just wonderful. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Graphic novels: I'd certainly have The Adventures of Luther Arkwright, The Tale of One Bad Rat or Alice in Sunderland - by gum, I'd have all of them. If I had to restrict myself to just one I might have the last one, since it stars our old friend Chaz Brenchley. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.78.74.161 |
Alice in Sunderland looks interesting. I meant to buy it at one point. Very tempted but will have to hold off again. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.241.143 |
Alice in Sunderland is all about my hometown, so I've been meaning to buy it for ages. Ramsey's recommendation just nudged me to order the book. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
I'm always flipping through it at my local comic shop. Huge tome. I've also been thinking about about putting down the hard cash on that one. Watchmen opens here on Friday. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
I was thinking so hard about it that I thought about-about it twice. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.69.108.73 |
Very very good, anything by Talbot is worth a look, Alice in Sunderland particularly so. | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
Alice in Sunderland is definitely worth a gander. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
Is it worth a goose? | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
At least. Maybe several geeses. If that's a word. Which it's not. I edit books me. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
me can tell | ||
| John (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
Multiple geeses = gise? Hm. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Right that's decided. Gary McMahon's zombie novel from Abaddon is going to be called the Geeseses of Doom. Sorry Gary, that's just the way things are. I'll get Greg to scatter some fowl on the cover. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Well, the prose is already foul (thought I'd beat Strantzas to that one). | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Jon, have you read Clark Ashton Smith's 'The Seven Geeses'? | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
In fact, I was just browsing some Ashton the other day and noticed that. Amazing how much fantasy leverage you can get out of waterfowl. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.167.124.163 |
Caught a screening of Watchmen this weekend. Haley was great in this. I don't know if seeing Rorschach breath and move merits a film version alone, but there were times during the screening where it felt that way. It was done with some care at least I thought. And certainly a huge step forward for Snyder, who's film 300 I didn't care for at all. Nice to hear the VO as well- some great passages. I could have watched the whole film if it were using the narrative technique of the title sequence- which in the end makes this adaptation sort of odd, but having said that, fun to see Moore's carnivalesque atmosphere in technicolour. I don't know why but after seeing those shots of Nixon in the Nuke room, and the scenes in the end I was wondering what the hell Kubrick would have done with this. But in any case, it was still done with much care, so it could have ended up in worse places, though a Greengrass version would also have been very interesting. |