| Author | Message | ||
     Giancarlo (Giancarlo) Username: Giancarlo Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 85.116.228.3 |
That's strange: it's some days I've been trying to connect to Ex Occidente Press via Google search: a screen appears instead, warning about the potential peril of linking to the site, asserting I may go on at my own risk of unknowingly download dangerous material possibly capable of destroying PC files and/or disrupting web searches. Needlss to say I stayed shy of the place. Even when I try connecting through my favourites lists, an analogous warning appears. What's happening with Ex Occodente? Or is it just my PC paying tricks? Will please anybody check if the same happens to them, especially through Google search? I am nonplussed. Thanks. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.179.197.176 |
Just tried and I get the same thing via Google search, Giancarlo. However, if I type the address directly, I get a message saying "this site is coming soon"... | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
I'm not exactly sure what's happening there, but if you go on the ALL HALLOWS message board and scroll back a few pages, there is a fairly detailed explanation given. Ex-Occidente have produced some beautiful books, but the operation seems to have been afflicted with problems from the word 'go'. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 193.89.189.24 |
Probably a hacking attack. They would probably just need to mail Google and inform them about this. Its been like this for a number of days, so I'm sure they're on it... | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
I don't think non-members can look at the All Hallows message board. But the Ex O webmaster seems to be on top of the matter. Apparently it happens to lots of sites. My Mcafee filter allows me to look at it as it's not checked it yet (as with many sites). Can't see any Google warnings as the McAfee supersedes them! | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.89.2 |
Note, just on the AH board from Brian... 'Problem solved. Also note new URL: www.exoccidente.com' | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Glad to hear it! I tried to look at the site a couple of days ago and immediately got a virus warning from my virus protection - two infected files. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.228.92 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcRiPLp4oU | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
And the new site now lists 'The Last Balcony' as forthcoming. Yay!  | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.89.2 |
Future titles........ 'The Silver Voices, John Howard The Impossible Inferno, Rhys Hughes The Last Balcony, D.F. Lewis I Burn Down Moscow - An Illustrated Edition, Paul Morand An Emporium of Automata, D.P. Watt Allurements of Cabochon, John Gale Sacred Flowers: The Odd Tales of Nigromontanus, Ernst Jünger The Rakes of the Old Courtyard, Matheiu Caragiale The Burning Calendar of Jerusalem Unicornus, Father Mihail Avramescu The Lighted Burrow - Sanatorium Journal, Max Blecher Disagreeable Tales, Léon Bloy.' Congrats - Des! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
This is the same problem the Pantechnicon site had - it got infected with a virus, Google spotted it and "quarantined" it with one of their warning messages. Glad it's sorted at Ex Occidente now. I was looking at it a few weeks ago and torn between buying the Reggie Oliver book or the Chris Barker one - what do you guys reckon? Which should I go for? I'm veering towards Reggie Oliver after reading his two stories in the 4th and 5th Black Books of Horror .. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Reggie is a bit special. His horror story THE DEVIL'S FUNERAL, published last year in SHADES OF DARKNESS, is one of the most effective chillers I've read in several years. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Reggie is indeed excellent. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
Reggie or Chris....hmmm... ? No.no.No...gcw! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
No, no sour grapes, please!  Anyway, it looks like 3 - 0 to Reggie Oliver so far ... | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.110.133.42 |
I'm sure Chris Barker would urge you to go for the Reggie Oliver book if you're picking one of the two. To fill in (briefly): CB is a talented ghost story writer with a short publication CV (and a reputation for online battles, which is why he's sometimes mentioned in dispatches here). I think his collection is likely to be good. RO is an outstanding writer of modern ghost stories, often in a theatrical context. He has the same kind of reputation as Terry Lamsley (but better dress sense). Anything of his is likely to be excellent. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
I haven't had the chance to get anything by Reggie Oliver yet, as his books are a bit pricey & difficult to obtain, but I hope to in the future. I have only spoken to Reggie a few times, but he is a lovely bloke. I will never read or buy a book by Chris Barker for reasons that have been done to death here, which is a shame, as he may well be a good writer. gcw | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
A pity CB doesn't publish Nemonymously, then, from your point of view, GCW?? | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
Sorry Des..? gcw | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
If CB published something without knowing it was by him, you would read him (as happens in Nemonymous since 2001)? | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
Ah I see yes, but I wouldn't read anything by choice. gcw | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 99.227.90.149 |
I dare say if we ruled out the fiction of all the authors we might like but wouldn't get along with personally our libraries would be quite lean. It's the art, not the artist, isn't it? | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
Yes, Simon, you're right. I had to debate strongly with myself before I bought and read your 'Cold To The Touch'. ;) | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 99.227.90.149 |
 | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.167.117.66 |
I reserve the personal right to choose not to read anything by this particular author. The reasons aren't really important & indeed are past history so I would rather leave it there now guys. gcw | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 99.227.90.149 |
Of course it's your right. I know you have a more ... um ... personal history with Barker, and I understand why you specifically would not want to have anything to do with him. My point is towards a more general idea that we shouldn't dismiss work by people we don't like because we don't like them. Just as one shouldn't read every book by a writer only because one likes personally, one shouldn't dismiss every book by a writer because one dislikes him personally. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if what the person is like as long as the work affects you. But, again, I mean this generally. There will always be exceptions, especially in cases such as yours, GCW. I'd say there are relatively few readers on this board in that same boat. Much of this is what Des is trying to rail against with his Nemonymous work (as he's already suggested). We bring baggage to the table when experiencing art that has no real consequence on the art itself. We need to separate them -- nowadays more than ever, where there is a whole new level of intimacy possible between the artist and the world. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.12.231.18 |
As Husserl calls it: bracketing the natural attitude. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Ah, I didn't realise you had a "history" with the guy GCW. Anyway, I'm definitely favouring the Reggie Oliver. If I have a win on the lottery, I'd go for both, but the problem is they're too expensive to get both. Besides, I have to make sure I've got enough money for "The Last Balcony" when it's published - that's a definite purchase from Ex Occidente! | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
We bring baggage to the table when experiencing art that has no real consequence on the art itself. We need to separate them -- nowadays more than ever, where there is a whole new level of intimacy possible between the artist and the world. ======================= Simon, that last bit above is very true. I've not thought of it in that way before. And thanks, Caroline, re 'The Last Balcony'. In tune with the inappropriate title of this thread, such a place as a balcony can be very perilous. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.12.231.18 |
I think Simon's point about the accessibility of artists in the (e)latter-day and its mediation on the way we perceive their work is a good one, and probably worth starting a new thread about. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
I don't think that art can or should be seperated from the artist. Art is created by an artist: it his part of him or her. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
it is... I wish we had an edit button. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"CB is a talented ghost story writer with a short publication CV (and a reputation for online battles, which is why he's sometimes mentioned in dispatches here)." What could be truer? | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
Art is created by an artist: it is part of him or her =================== Of course. But how does that affect this issue? | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.89.2 |
'I don't think that art can or should be separated from the artist. Art is created by an artist: it is part of him or her.' I agree with Zed on that. Also. I empathise with GCW because of the above too and I won't be buying a collection from anyone who has gone out of their way to be vile to me. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.89.2 |
I meant written 'by anyone'... | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
'I don't think that art can or should be separated from the artist. Art is created by an artist: it is part of him or her.' I agree with Zed on that. ============================== So do I agree with Zed. It's a sort of truism, though. | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 99.227.90.149 |
Let's look at Harlan Ellison, who's a right bastard most of the time. Does this dismiss his work? Or the racist tendencies of Lovecraft. Should we throw it all out? Robert Aickman seems to me to have been a bit of an arse. Do I never read it again? Artists are people, just like most of you (I'm above it, you see) and just like you some are nice and some are mean and some fall between given the day. Regardless of who they are, their work can still affect you, and that's what you should be judging the tale on -- how good it is, not on whether you could have a drink with the writer. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.89.2 |
I simply have no desire to read it. There are many other writers out there I'd rather read (Reggie Oliver for one) and spend my money on. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Artists are people, just like most of you (I'm above it, you see) and just like you some are nice and some are mean and some fall between given the day. Regardless of who they are, their work can still affect you, and that's what you should be judging the tale on -- how good it is, not on whether you could have a drink with the writer.<< I think Simon's comment here sums it up nicely. I definitely wouldn't refuse to buy a book just because I didn't like the author, or didn't approve of his/her ideas. But I can understand that when people have been PERSONALLY attacked by someone (like Ally has - and, I guess, GCW has too - in the case of CB) they really wouldn't feel inclined to buy/read their work. I also agree though that you can't separate the art from the artist. Chris Barker's website proclaims him to be a misanthrope. That makes me curious about him - what kind of stories must someone write when they clearly don't like, and have no desire to get on with, other people? It intrigues me. Oh heck, I might end up splashing out on BOTH the Barker and the Oliver (I'm intrigued, too, by the theatrical connection here) - and hope I can explain buying yet more books to my poor, downtrodden husband!  | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 99.227.90.149 |
For you, Caroline, a sample of Reggie Oliver's work. He performed a reading of his story "Puss-Cat" for the GSS podcast. This tale sums up quite well what the bulk of Reggie's work is like, so it should be a good indicator if you will enjoy an entire book of his work. (As far as I can tell, there is no online version of any of Chris Barker's work.) http://gsspodcast.mypodcast.com/2007/11/Reggie_Oliver_reads_PussCat-58695.html | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Ooo, thanks, Simon - I'll have a listen to this. Yes, I was thinking Chris Barker's website might contain a sample of his work - but nothing. Pity, really. | ||
| Giancarlo (Giancarlo) Username: Giancarlo Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 85.116.228.3 |
I still get the virus warning when linking to Ex Occidente by Google, not by direct search. Does it mean Google has not updated the connection yet, or is there still virus danger? By direct search, everything seems to be all right. I am a bit nonplussed. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.47.89.2 |
On another forum emails indicate everything is fine now. | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 99.227.90.149 |
It is, Ally, but the address has also changed. http://www.exoccidente.com (note it's finally spelled properly) | ||
| Giancarlo (Giancarlo) Username: Giancarlo Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 85.116.228.3 |
I've added the new address to my favourites list: it seems to work ok now! | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"That makes me curious about him - what kind of stories must someone write when they clearly don't like, and have no desire to get on with, other people?" The few I've read seemed to have absolutely no engagement with what real people are like or how they speak. I may change my view once I've read the Ex Occidente book. I agree with Simon, by the way. I once met Jack Vance, and to put it mildly, we didn't get on. But I still consider him a very fine writer. Shortly after I met him our publisher sent me the galleys of his new book for a quote, and I provided an enthusiastic one. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
It is now good to see that the re-starting of the Collider's process (after 14 months) has gone so well in the last couple of days*. However, one must not take things for granted. For example, I dreamt last night that an aeroplane flew over the Collider and dropped an elephant upon it. *Today's tweet from CERN (35 minutes ago): TWO BEAMS ARE CURRENTLY CIRCULATING IN THE LHC! | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
Sorry, that was put on the wrong thread! As you were. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>"That makes me curious about him - what kind of stories must someone write when they clearly don't like, and have no desire to get on with, other people?" The few I've read seemed to have absolutely no engagement with what real people are like or how they speak.<< Ah, that's not surprising, I guess. To be able to write well, you need to be able to observe people - what they do, how they behave, and so on. If a writer can't (or won't) interact with people in order to observe in that way, then their writing is likely to feel unreal. It's like not doing your research, and just writing about how you THINK something might be. | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 207.61.175.43 |
Don't know that I agree, really. I think one can write about what people are like without ever having spoken to one because, well, one IS a person. There's an example that the writer ought to know better than he or she would know anyone else. Someone in touch with themselves doesn't necessarily need to have contact with other people The risk is that all the character become the same person. Meeting others may help the writer write a more diverse range of personalities, but I don't think this is a prerequisite for a writer. Not as much as others do, at least. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
I agree with Simon. Also, sometimes in weird fiction, folk are weird, and not realistic. | ||
| Barbara Roden (Nebuly) Username: Nebuly Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 142.179.19.195 |
>>>Don't know that I agree, really. I think one can write about what people are like without ever having spoken to one because, well, one IS a person. There's an example that the writer ought to know better than he or she would know anyone else. Someone in touch with themselves doesn't necessarily need to have contact with other people.<< I agree to an extent, Simon, in that yes, a writer is a person and so can write about people to the extent that they know themselves. But that's a very limiting viewpoint, and as you point out, a writer who doesn't interact with others, or at least observe them, runs the risk of having all her characters sound the same, act the same, have the same concerns and preoccupations and motivations, because the writer doesn't know anything else. I was having a similar discussion with another writer yesterday, and we agreed that there are writers out there whose characters refuse to come alive because the writer isn't engaged with, or understanding of, other people to any great extent. These writers might be technically accomplished and spin a decent yarn, but one gets the feeling they don't really care about their characters, possibly because they don't really understand them: they've decided they need to use a truck driver, or a single mom, or a teenage boy in their story, but because they've never bothered to observe any of these people, understand them, the characters are flat and colourless, little more than stick figures being pushed through the motions, and not acting or speaking the way such people would in real life. I mean, if you're, say, a thirty-something white male with a decent education and a good job, who doesn't know any twenty-something single moms of limited education who work a dead-end low-paying job, it's going to be difficult for you to portray such a character realistically in your fiction, should you decide to use her. | ||
| Simon Strantzas (Nomis) Username: Nomis Registered: 09-2008 Posted From: 207.61.175.43 |
But I'd argue that as long as the writer has the capacity for empathy, there isn't much beyond her. If she is the sort of internalized person we might assume a misanthrope to be, she may have spent an inordinate amount of time pouring over her decisions in life, trying to understand why she made them and what makes herself tick. If she understands this (as best she can) and is aware of her natural capacity to be different people (the grumpy person, the happy person, the jealous person, etc.) then she need only do research into the facts to make a character come alive. if she can empathise with the single father based on the facts, she can write about him because some emotions are universal. I'm not saying the writer shouldn't interact with other people, or that it isn't much faster/easier to learn about others from talking to others, I just don't think the rule is as hard and fast as people claim it to be. I think a writer who writes cardboard characters fails at empathy, not from ignorance. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
I think a writer who writes cardboard characters fails at empathy, not from ignorance. ================================= How true. The best writing talent is often a natural rather than a learnt one, instinctive rather than observed. And varying in such ratio. But you can't generalise about this. imo. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
IMHO, character is the single most important part of good writing, in any genre. Anyone can tell a story, but it takes real talent to tell a story about characters who feel real. All IMHO, of course. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Actually, what I meant to say there was, after the basic ability to write, character is the most important part of good writing, in any genre. I believe that all good fiction is about people. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>I believe that all good fiction is about people.<< Exactly, and I still don't believe that you can write convincing characters unless you've really observed them in real life. OK a writer is a person of course, so they have that limited view of what people are like from knowing themselves. But I reckon the wider the range of characters they've observed, then the wider the range of characters they can write about convincingly. That even goes for weird fiction where the characters might be weird and unnatural. In fact I wonder whether you have to have even more of a grasp of more natural human behaviour in order to make more unnatural characters convincing? | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
Can one learn the art of writing character from just reading literature rather than meeting people? Examples of people who wrote in isolation? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
You and I are on the same page with this one, Caroline. That even goes for weird fiction where the characters might be weird and unnatural. That's one of the main failings of a lot of weird fiction, from my point of view. I like stories to be about real people, not oddball ciphers. The most effective weird tales I have ever read have been driven by characters that seem to live and breathe, to have lives off the page... Can one learn the art of writing character from just reading literature rather than meeting people? I'd say no, but I've seen examples of this kind of writing and the lack of genuine human insight is usually obvious. Good writers, IMHO, need to be students of humanity - even if they don't like humanity. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
>>Can one learn the art of writing character from just reading literature rather than meeting people?<< That reminds me of an interview I heard Stephen Gallagher give. He was talking about being able to immediately spot the difference between work where someone had either (a) done real research around a subject or (b) were just writing about it from something they'd seen about it second-hand on TV or film. I guess it's the same question - do you (a) do primary research, using real characters for your study, or (b) do secondary research using fictional characters formed by someone else? Personally, I'd say (a) would always be better - and I reckon a skilled writing critic could spot the difference. I'm afraid I can't give any examples of people who've written in isolation. Oh, hang on a minute, thinking of misanthropes - wasn't Johnathan Swift a self-confessed misanthrope? I don't know how isolated he was when he wrote, but he was a pretty good writer! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.106 |
Stephen Gallagher is a master of characterisation. Some of his short fiction is almost unbearably good. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Ooops, we were both posting at the same time there, Zed! | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 82.38.75.85 |
Twice!  | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 06-2008 Posted From: 86.171.167.11 |
The most effective weird tales I have ever read have been driven by characters that seem to live and breathe, to have lives off the page... ============================ That is certainly a strength of the Gary McMahon canon so far - as I think I have observed in reviews. Character, Plot, Mood & Style can vary in proportion and substance, however, and there are, I feel, many different methods of optimising each of those 4 factors separately or ensemble. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.162.0.57 |
I don't think it is a failing of weird fiction writers, or others, to not write so-called 'real' characters, whether or not they are writing a kind of social realism, or whatever. While writers like Gogol for example were brilliant observers of character etc, some of their fantastic tales for instance, had characters which worked as a sort of clockwork in their tales, this makes their tales no less relevant or powerful. Think if we only had social realist characters in fiction, how limiting and dismissing that would be of the complexity of human nature, real or poetic. I am just making this as a counter argument, I like writers who create characters who feel real, even with just a couple of sentences, which is extraordinary, like Mike Smith does, or Joel Lane. I'm just saying that the definition of what makes good characters, or stories is a very broad one, and therefore stories that do not have so-called 'real' characters should not be dismissed out of hand, if other interesting things are going on in a story. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.162.0.57 |
In an extreme case, for the sake of arguement, you could for example have a whole cast of two dimensional characters that are clearly just types or marionettes- slaves to a plot or idea- who collectively make a profound observation about a very real human emotion. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"Can one learn the art of writing character from just reading literature rather than meeting people? Examples of people who wrote in isolation?" Is there even one? Everyone encounters other people. The question is how well the writer observes them, I think, and how they can extrapolate imaginatively from those observations. Literature about literature is a genre in itself, of course. Borges is a great writer who rarely needed much in the way of characterisation. I think far too much horror fiction (in its various forms) uses characters who seem to be based on how characters react in other horror fiction, rather on how real people would - a principle productive of decidedly diminishing returns. Just a hodgepodge of random thoughts, folks... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I think far too much horror fiction (in its various forms) uses characters who seem to be based on how characters react in other horror fiction I agree completely. As a reader (and a writer, I suppose), I want fictional characters to think and act (and react) in a believable way. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.56 |
>>I believe that all good fiction is about people.<< Can i just throw Ray Bradbury's masterpiece There Will Come Soft Rains into the mix here. No people. No living creatures except for a dog that crawls in to die. But that story is somewhat of an exception. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.170.178.4 |
RE Barker; I could read a book by a person who had insulted someone, but not a book by someone who had insulted me. Sometimes the isolated writer can see a lot in a person that those who see many can't. I read in an intro by Graham Greene to a Patricia Highsmith book that he felt too many characters in literature acted rationally, that after reading her work all characters seemed suddenly utterly dull and predictable. |