| Author | Message | ||
     Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.148.96.124 |
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20080630/ten-four-weddings-voted-best-brit-flick-ea 4616c.html As voted by who? Monkeys? Jeez. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.148.96.124 |
In fact that top five makes me wonder if this were some sort of pub poll, everyone under 25 telly watchers. | ||
| Niki Flynn (Niki) Username: Niki Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.32.69.29 |
Huh? Everyone knows it's Wicker Man! | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Life of Brian would be my choice for the top Brit movie. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
A few candidates: If..., The Lady Vanishes, Peeping Tom (tremendously intelligent and allusive), Kind Hearts and Coronets, The Third Man... As soon as I post this I know I'll think of more. I'm excluding folk such as Losey who made films here, but I'd say Michael Powell was the greatest British director who stayed out of Hollywood. His influence can be seen not just in Scorsese's work but (I think) in the very fine Atonement. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.231.237 |
I go with If... | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
Dead Man's Shoes If Peeping Tom Witchfinder General | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Four Weddings and a Funeral made me want to hurt people. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.229 |
Just lend them a copy of the DVD. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.92.216.182 |
Naked by Mike Leigh might be one of my favourites. It blew me away, utterly. Now don't hate me (and I very rarely watch romantic comedies) but Four Weddings and a Funeral is hands down one of my favourite in the genre. It had outstanding actors and just as great a screenplay, and with lots of my friends getting married, I can relate to that film. Don't hate me, I thought it was brilliant. But certainly not the best! | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.6.53 |
The Devils The Fallen Idol Olivier's Hamlet Curse of the Demon ... and so on, and so on.... I liked - liked - Four Weddings and a Funeral - but I hated its sickly-sweet solipsistic sentimentality. A much better Hugh Grant film is About a Boy... or Impromptu... or Sense and Sensibility... and so on and so on.... | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
What I hate about 4 weddings is that it's a bunch of posh people being ghastly to each other for 2 hours. There wasn't one character I didn't want to repeatedly punch in the face. As for Mike Leigh, although I don't mind Naked, I hate most of his films. Aren't I a Mr grumpy pants today? Must be the 350 page manuscript sitting on my desk. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.216 |
And with no good jokes. And no insight. But the poem reading was half-decent. But of course Curtis had to quote a good author. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Exactly Gary. Bloody Curtis! This was the guy who co-wrote Blackadder, what happened? Actually, the answer to that is probably that Elton wrote all the best bits. But even he is a massive sell-out corporate whore now. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.229 |
Look at Blackadder 1 which Curtis wrote with Atkinson, and see what effect Elton had on the show. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
Hadn't thought of that, but now you mention it... | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.148.96.124 |
About a Boy is awful! It does that thing i hate of having a half hour script padded with dialogue-free nifty music and people moping, music that because it's now associated with said film you no longer like. See Starter For Ten to see fully what I mean; that's a horrible, empty film that feels like a very long trailer for a better one. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.2.45 |
... Then you must have hated Love Actually, right, Tony?... You see Death at a Funeral, Tony? I liked that one too - actually, hands-down better than these three.... | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.168.57.219 |
Bloody Curtis! Oi! Oh, and LOVE ACTUALLY must be the worst film I've paid to see. Agree with all the lists above, but it's impossible for me to name a 'best', although I notice no-one's mentioned OH MR PORTER - "next train's gone"!  | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.168.57.219 |
And LOCK, STOCK.. at number five? Ffs... | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.208.214.33 |
Whatever any of you say it's Kind Hearts and Coronets Thank you I am now leaving this thread | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Clothes man, clothes. *mopsbrow* | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.208.214.33 |
Black, Griff. Black. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.168.57.219 |
Kind Hearts and Coronets Good call, although there's also THE LAVENDER HILL MOB! | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.208.214.33 |
True but wrong | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.168.57.219 |
No, there IS also THE LAVENDER HILL MOB! You can't just un-make it! | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.208.214.33 |
OK so it exists, but Kind Hearts is incomparable - Price, Guinness, Greenwood, Hamer... My absolute favourite waste of time Four Weddings is a trifling piece of piffery in comparison | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.168.57.219 |
You missed out Arthur Lowe! Can't agree more matey about Four Weddings - and I do love KIND HEARTS... Here's a bargain:- http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;-1;-1;-1&sku=558531 If I didn't have nearly all of them already I'd definitely go for it. | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
"a trifling piece of piffery " I love it. I'm going to have to find a way to drop that into conversation somewhere. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.226.126 |
Ah, but shouldn't that be piffle ? | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.176.105.47 |
No - piffery. No idea if it's a real word but it sounds lovely, doesn't it? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.216 |
It's a hybrid of frippery and piffle, isn't it? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
Is it the opposite of spiffery? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
When you think about it, it's funny how crap our best British films seem. Was ERASERHEAD British? I mean, they have a charm to them. They entertain, but don't seem that relevant to anything. What is KIND HEARTS AND CORONETS or LAVENDER HILL MOB relevant to? Aren't they just shallow bits of fun that taunt us with an England that never was? I can't think of one British film that really says anything. Or is'n't fuelled by an exploitative level of darkness. And we choose horror films. I can't really think of any film anywhere in any language that actually ever said anything that wasn't already evident. I suppose it is funny to watch things happen (he said in his caustic, and soul strangling manner.) Arthur Askey's THE GHOST TRAIN! Bwahahah! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
What about THE MAN IN THE WHITE SUIT? Pretty sharp satire about business. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
THIS IS ENGLAND - ? Pretty damned relevant. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
Pah. I already knew the system requires poor people and inefficency for it to function. Rich people have been telling us that always. I already knew skin heads are deluded pricks. Surely the BEST film should a mystery to us at the very moment. These above films were made by mirrors. The BEST film should hold all the cards and be a constant madness to us. Forever tugging at us to watch and still never understand. The way Campbell or Aickman work. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
Is racism relevant or just another tiresome bore. Another boring reminder of how stupid people are? I can walk down the street and see a knob drawn on the shutters of a chinese take away, or a COMABT 18 sticker (that are really hard to peel off!) I suppose we all have our version of "relevant". A muslim seeing that film might be encouraged by seeing that British stupidity is not new. As if they needed to know. I think I better smile just to lighten this cobwebbed corner I just sat in. Or does that just make it seem creepy? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
We're back to FOUR WEDDINGS AND A FUNERAL, then. Well, it puzzles me. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
Culture seems to be about reminding and being reminded about certain core facts, dressed up as new to pique interest. Even that statement has been said by me, here, a dozen or more times, in different guises. Here's another smile.  | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
Exactly the point Grant Morrison made recently. Why is it there are things we cannot like? Have we partitioned off our minds to enjoying everything because we are constantly being told that we need to be different to the person next to us? Would it be so bad if you liked Country and Western music? Or FOUR WEDDINGS? But then Grant Morrison is a dick. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
Perhaps we need to be constantly reminded. And art is arguably the most persuasive way. Tell me and I forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll never forget. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
>>>Would it be so bad if you liked Country and Western music? Or FOUR WEDDINGS? I agree. A great deal of dislike for such stuff is just insecure posturing on the part of the claimant: egotistical, really. But Four Weddings' really is pants. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
What I dislike so ardently about Four Weddings is its paucity of genuinely witty comedy and its lack of insight. I could forgive a work which has one without the presence of the other, but in the absence of either, it's unforgiveable. It wants to be both and is so lame it's neither. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
If you want to see how cheap a writer Richard Curtis is, watch The Vicar of Dibley. The cheap, Shakespeare-wannabe, self-proclaimed guardian of British cleverness-cum-vapidity whore. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.197 |
And why does he insist that all his actors act as if their characters are trying to remember whether they've left the iron on before leaving home? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
You can't go backwards. When you were ten you might have found it funny. But when you learn that level of comedy you don't need to be reminded. Do I need to be reminded -in film- that people are flawed to the point of being disgusting? Isn't that something I would do better to forget? I suspect film sweetens the pill of that realisation. But not so we can accept it better in real life. But purely to present our reality in a way that costs money. "I'm off to see a version of my reality that costs £5." The only real mystery is why we pay to see a distorted version of life. Does it REALLY give us a clearer view of life? To give us a DISTORTED view? Maybe it's like you say. If you PAY for it. You are more likely to FORCE yourself to like it. Life seems to thrive on these cyclical devices. Poor beings. It won't last forever. No. There are breaks before it all starts up again. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Are films sermons? Life seems so limiting that I can't see how saying anything to anyone would make any difference to their lives? Are films just made by madmen? Or money men? What do they imagine we take from it? Are films speeded up lives? All the boring bits cut? If you put boring bits into a film what are you saying? That they are real life and the explosions and orgasms are exceptions to the rule? I haven't exploded much, myself. But I've washed many a pot and pan. Do people who lead exciting lives like to watch films about washing pots and pans? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
If I never wasted my time would I do anything at all? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Is the brain a disease that has inflicted itself upon matter? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Do we pay to watch puzzles on a screen so we can learn the tools and tricks of figuring out our own puzzled lives? To what end? Can we puzzle our way out of death? Do dying people grabs pen and paper and a calculator? Are wills the final act of a puzzler? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Is your inheritance a clue to the treasure? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Is treasure a form of disease passed on? So you can buy more time at the cinema and be puzzled further? Has the puzzle become a maze to hide from finding the truth? The way out? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.216 |
There are lots of reasons why people watch films, read fiction, etc. To learn things, to be entertained, to seek hedonic relevance, to not feel alone with a certain dilemma, to fantasise, to wonder, to escape drudgery, to be thrilled, to enjoy beauty, to provide a way to 'go on' in everyday life, to relate to other people via the medium of fiction, and more. The closest thing we have to a dress rehearsal for life in all its variousness. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.216 |
Are you rehearsing to be a quiz-show host? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Do we pay to be lost? Do we know too much now? Do we visit the psychiatrist because we want to be more mad? Are films madness? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
>>There are lots of reasons why people watch films, read fiction, etc. To learn things, to be entertained, to seek hedonic relevance, to not feel alone with a certain dilemma, to fantasise, to wonder, to escape drudgery, to be thrilled, to enjoy beauty, to provide a way to 'go on' in everyday life, to relate to other people via the medium of fiction, and more. Are all these things just another term for being lost? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Isn't being lost exactly the same thing as watching a film? It's the same feeling. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
You can only ever be lost once in a film. Most films. Just like life. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
| ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
That feeling when you come out of the cinema and...it's still your world out there. Beautifully lost, now not lost. Peek a boo. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Wouldn't you love to be lost right now? | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
All films are murder mysteries. even if the death is only symbolic or emotional. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Have I lost you? | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
You're a clever chap wasting his life. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Actually, for once, I'm understanding everything you say. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
>>>You're a clever chap wasting his life. According to whose criteria? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
>>>Do we pay to be lost? Do we know too much now? Fiction certainly shakes up our collective arrogance, a collective arrogance based on a spurious sense of knowingness. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Yes, fiction defamiliarises. So yes, there's a little bit of madness involved in it, if not a great deal. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
All emotions are conjured when we are lost. Joy and fear and nostalgia and...all the other stuff real people feel. I've messed with my emotions so much they wander around like lost animals. Occasionally staring at me and having a little dance. Confusion is power. Waste? God, I hope so. How? Have I said anything you didn't know already? Confusion is truth. I've said it before. I wish I were lost right now. Never knowing what is around the next corner. That's life. God must be in hell. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
>>That feeling when you come out of the cinema and...it's still your world out there. No, good fiction changes that world "out there". | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
Too much confusion though. There is a limit. And we need to feel there is something to grab at. Find. A base animal emotion. Food. find. Life has lost that thing to grab for. The aim is either too vague or isn't there at all. How awful it must be. To be lost. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
>>No, good fiction changes that world "out there". It puts you up at the top of the slide again. Then it's back to the ground. Repeat. That is the very process that binds the whole of life. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Maybe you could do an A-level in being lost. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
The universe is repeating forever. For we have yet to find a way to stop it. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Satellite TV. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
It has a pause function now. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
I think I might have to get lost. It would look good on my cv. An A level in being lost. The master of losing yourself. I'm calming down now. Back to human. My mind has ripped my headband. I will need to steal one of a washing line. Or just not wear them any more. Cue the sad music and TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
"No, good fiction changes that world "out there"." I'd arghue that good fiction only changes the world inside us. The world out there remains the same, in all its flawed, tawdry hideousness. Personally, I think I watch films and read fiction to pretend that there's a point - a script, if you will - to life instead if it all being utterly, utterly pointless. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Fiction is a Sat-Nav system for the psyche. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
>>>I'd arghue that good fiction only changes the world inside us. The world out there remains the same, in all its flawed, tawdry hideousness. I meant that since the world out there is born of our interpretation, then the change fiction affects inside us inevitably affects that outside us. However, much fiction has changed the world in many ways. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I wish I could share your shiny optimism. :-) | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
To find meaning is to first be lost. To find a greater meaning, we must be greater lost. What is a greater form of loss than a film? Madness? Even that is tainted by aspects of our self. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Mountain climbing. Parachuting. Going to watch Millwall on a Sturday afternoon. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
To come home again, to find meaning, it only lasts so long. Then you need to be even more lost. What is "lost"? To be full of questions. To be young again. To be tested. To start fresh. To enjoy discovery again. Why would we want anything else? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Do you know about Hegel's cycle of thesis, antithesis, synthesis? That's what you're talking about here, I think. Or the hermeneutic circle - synthesising new (and temporary) Gestalts. I apologise for all the dirty words. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I like cream cheese on my Hegels. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
>>>To be full of questions. To be young again. To be tested. To start fresh. To enjoy discovery again. Isn't there a danger here of wanting to evade 'reality' in favour of idealism, as opposed to adjusting to 'reality' as it seems to be (or even affecting change in that reality)? Perhaps the difference between a young and an older person's strategies? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.215 |
Or: “A reasonable man adapts himself to the world while an unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself, so all the the progress depends on the unreasonable men” | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
"Do you know about Hegel's cycle of thesis, antithesis, synthesis? That's what you're talking about here, I think. Or the hermeneutic circle - synthesising new (and temporary) Gestalts. I apologise for all the dirty words." | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
Anyone who likes this type of discussion should read "The Philosophers Apprentice" by James Morrow. Nietze said so. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.5.9.167 |
'Life be, after all, only a waitin' for somethin' else than what we're doin'..." - Bram Stoker, DRACULA I prefer Lockes on my Hegels. | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.208.214.33 |
I prefer Katherine Heigl. Well I do. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 75.16.78.41 |
Always have to turn it sordid, John. Of course, didn't I hear Katherine Heigl was a philosophy major at one time?... All I know is, I'd give her Kant a Spinoza. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.148.96.124 |
Being lost is a bit like being a kid again, not having a clue how the world works, what's out there, before anyone tells you how dangerous/boring it is. Life is about the journey, the sense of mystery, and not for nowt is the best part of a film or book the first few minutes or pages and not the last. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.74 |
That's good, Tony. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
"Classic schizotypal personalities are apt to be loners, having few to no intimate relationships. They exhibit extreme anxiety in social situations, often associated more with distrust and an inability to communicate with others than with a negative self-image. They view themselves as alien or forlorn, and this isolation causes pain as they disengage more and more from relationships and the outside world. People with schizotypal personalities often have odd patterns of speech and ramble endlessly on subjects tangent to a topic of conversation. They may dress in peculiar ways and have very strange ways of viewing the world around them. Often they harbor unusual ideas, such as believing in the powers of ESP or a "sixth sense." At times, they believe they can magically influence people's thoughts, actions and emotions. In adolescence, signs of a schizotypal personality may begin as a gravitation toward solitary activities or a high level of social anxiety. The child may be an underperformer in school or appear socially out-of-step with peers, and as a result often becomes the subject of bullying or teasing." http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/schizotypal-personality-disorder/DS00830/DSECTI ON=symptoms | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.149.134.59 |
Also known as occultists, spiritual leaders, gurus and magicians... People like that can be very likeable and interesting when they are honest about themselves and extremely dangerous when they are not. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
I'm not sure if anyone with that disorder would want to lead people or perform. They would be secret magicians, taking the blame/kudos for all major losses of life. mwahahahah | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.148.96.124 |
Sounds exactly like me. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
I was trying to diagnose myself. I fit the symptoms. But then we all could relate to those feelings. Can't decide if I want to be a shizotypal or a schizoid. They are slightly different. I think I'll choose the one that offers the most amount of self pity. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
>>>I'm not sure if anyone with that disorder would want to lead people or perform. I've known quite a few people with such dispositions who talk and talk as a way of overcoming their obvious 'dysfunction' in everyday life. They control the conversation, run rings round you, but whenever you chip in, they are either put off their stroke or make some excuse to leave. They can often be charming and witty, but at all times there's a sense of not talking to someone who's altogether there. As if they're talking to an imaginary you tailored by themselves by their subtle, manipulative domineering. They're called professors. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.76.216 |
Is being lost a sense of powerlessness in a world which one refuses to adapt to? Or maybe a subconscious acknoweldgement that it's not worth changing? Does being lost correlated with helplessness, pessimism, or both? | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.226.126 |
I'd like to see concrete examples of 'excessive social anxiety' (I feel uncomfortable in crowds, hence I'm a schizotypal personality?), 'flat emotions or inappropriate emotional responses' (too vague), 'idiosyncratic speech' (isn't all speech idiosyncratic?), and 'peculiar thinking' (peculiar in which sense?). | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
R D Laing describes lived examples of the 'condition' in a terrifying way. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
>>I'd like to see concrete examples of 'excessive social anxiety' (I feel uncomfortable in crowds, hence I'm a schizotypal personality?), Er, no. Isn't it more to do with the terror of being engulfed by the presence of another, of being 'turned to stone' or considerably worse? In company, schizophrenics feel as if they've lost control of their bodies, as if others - or rather, from an analytic POV, a pre-reflective interpretation of others - are controlling you. It's about not knowing what's inside you and what's outside. It's about feeling perpetually persecuted, as if you're carrying around the gaze and potential, invariably punitive action of others. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 129.11.77.198 |
And I believe that the riddles in which schizophrenics talk are ways of simultaneously engaging and disengaging with others, a reflection of a need for others as well as a terror of them. There's meaning in there somewhere, but you'll have to figure it out: meanwhile, the schizophrenic is 'in touch' with you as much as s/he feels able to bear. | ||
| Hubert (Hubert) Username: Hubert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.22.226.126 |
It may simply designate a marked awkwardness in dealing with others in general. I was recently told one of my redeeming qualities is an outspoken ability to establish contact with others, even perfect strangers. And I see myself as a basically shy and introverted person! On the other hand there would appear to be a certain unwillingness (or rather lack of ability) to show emotion, and I do have a problem there in that I haven't a clue what they mean. I don't see myself as an unemotional creature. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
>>I'd like to see concrete examples of 'excessive social anxiety' (I feel uncomfortable in crowds, hence I'm a schizotypal personality?) If you fear speaking to people. Would rather do anything but talk to someone. Then maybe. I'm not sure about myself. I seem to be able to talk to people when I have to, but often it leaves me mentally disturbed. I will say goodbye, walk out of the room and then be making violent threats under my breath and saying odd things. They aren't directed at the person though. It feels like I'm not saying them. There's this other person inside me who talks cryptically. Who can see something I haven't noticed and comment on it, usually in an odd tone of voice. Then I have to work out what he's saying. He shouts too. But It's not like Tourettes because he only does it when nobody else can hear. Like he doesn't want to embarass me. It's mad. It gets worse at home. He can rant and shout all through the day. But he can say funny things too. We have little mock arguments about getting out of bed. "You do it!" "No, you do it!" "It's your turn!" >>'flat emotions or inappropriate emotional responses' (too vague) Laughing and crying at the same time. Feeling nothing when you hear bad news about someone you know. Generally not caring about people. But then over reacting at other things. 'idiosyncratic speech' (isn't all speech idiosyncratic?), and 'peculiar thinking' (peculiar in which sense?). >> constantly turning everything into a joke that people find surreal and a bit scary. Thinking that a boring bit in a TV show is put there because you want to have a quick look at Big Brother. (not put there by the people who amde the show, but by your mind or the mind of God right at that moment) Thinking that when you stand at the crossings and the green man comes up instantly that you made it happen. Looking through books on mythology trying to find gods with names similar to yours because you think they are you in a past life. Being emotionally caught up in these events yet later knowing they are bullshit...until they happen again and you are again emotionally caught up. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.149.134.59 |
These sound very much like symptoms of a psychological illness rather than marks of a particular 'type' of personality. They're the kind of irrational behaviours most people show when severely ill physically or unusually upset. While I have many reservations about the new NHS Constiution, it does contain the radical step of giving all patients with mental illness the right to choose between drug therapy and psychotherapy. This is potentially a major step in the social recognition of people with mental illness as patients with a right to dignity and independence, not as criminals whose existence can be tolerated as long as they dutifully 'take their medication'. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
"It's about feeling perpetually persecuted, as if you're carrying around the gaze and potential, invariably punitive action of others." That's how I feel all the time - it's just unhealthy paranoia. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 61.216.36.165 |
Whoa -- they really have to choose between drug therapy or psychotherapy? Why must they only choose one or the other? It sounds like an unproductive, backward, and irresponsible way of going about the treatment of mental illness to me. Surely many, if not most, patients with mental disorders would benefit most from a multi-faceted approach -- much like the way a good pain clinic treats people with chronic pain not just by giving them the pain medicine they need, but also employing physiotherapy and other pain-relieving methods, as well as psychological counselling where necessary. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.244.67 |
That's the point. These are ordinary things but they become a disorder when they become a problem. >>These sound very much like symptoms of a psychological illness rather than marks of a particular 'type' of personality. Yep, I seem to have more going on than would be covered by a personality disorder. Having two minds isn't something you'd put in a dating ad, alongside "bubbly". Nobody with two minds would be called healthy or normal. But do I have two minds or am I just exhibiting very quick emotional changes? | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.149.134.59 |
Huw – yes and no. I should have said that patients will have the choice whether or not to take drugs, and some choice as to what they take. In principle the two therapies can be combined. In practice, for a combination of clinical and financial reasons, they are often seen as alternatives. It's a complex picture. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.149.134.59 |
Or to be more precise, patients on long-term drug therapies are often offered psychotherapy as well. If the prescription is relatively short-term, they tend to wait and see how much it helps before committing to psychotherapy, and the latter will be taken up when the former is judged no longer appropriate. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.149.134.59 |
Susan Sontag's great book ILLNESS AS METAPHOR argues that using types of illness to define types of people (and thus assuming that you develop TB or cancer because of the kind of person you are) is both medically and socially dishonest. In relation to mental illness it's still very widespread: some people are 'depressives', some are 'schizophrenics', etc. And by implication, no-one can recover because a leopard can't change its spots, right? It also ceases to be necessary to ask why someone had developed a mental illness: it's just the way they are. The 'star sign' type of thinking. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 61.216.36.165 |
Thanks for clarifying, Joel. I don't know anything about the treatment of mental disorders in the UK (except for 'minor' things like depression, which I've been treated for myself), and thought it seemed odd that they would have to choose between just drugs or psychotherapy. I can see it must be a complex situation. | ||
| Albie (Albie) Username: Albie Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.195.236.131 |
Anything as grey as mental illness will always be swamped by controversy and confusion. I do believe your personality type will influence your sickness. |