| Author | Message | ||
     Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.5.57.6 |
I found out during a meeting on Tuesday that THE DEVIL'S ROCK has now been illegally downloaded an estimated 33,000 times. Now that it's money out of my pocket, I'm finally starting to realise what this means. To small and even medium budget movie production, this kind of freeloading could ultimately prove fatal. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
I can understand that you're worried - 33,000 is a lot if you think of it in lost DVD sales or theatre tickets. But most of those people will be just downloading every movie that turns up on their RSS feed, not looking specially for this one. Compared to the number of people that will see it on television, 33,000 is hardly anyone. | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.5.57.6 |
The trouble is that loss of revenue in the first year of a film's life is a major blow to any film-maker hoping to raise funds to make a follow-up feature. The financiers are only interested in how well the last picture did, and once it's been sold off to TV that usually means that it's 'earned out'. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
Thinking about the issue more generally - with comics, going day and date digital seems to have been a huge success, as has showing television imports as quickly as possible after their US showings (or UK showings, with Doctor Who) and I think that will happen with films eventually - piracy has made it very, very difficult to separate consumers into separate windows. Comics shops didn't want the competition of day and date digital releases (and DC are expressly overcharging on digital for the first month of a comic's release to keep the direct market happy), and cinema chains absolutely hate it - they seem to threaten vetos whenever films try it, or anything like it. Remember when Odeon were going to boycott Alice in Wonderland over it having only a three-month window before the DVD release? But ultimately cinema chains will have to compete on their particular strengths over watching at home, rather than on their exclusive access to the content. Drinking beer at home is cheaper than drinking at a pub, but we still go out to the pub because it's something to do together. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
Sorry, Paul - I didn't see your post before posting again. I didn't know that... I hope this won't affect your chances of getting a new film off the ground. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
Just bought it on Amazon. Hope that helps a bit.  | ||
| Paul_finch (Paul_finch) Username: Paul_finch Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 92.5.57.6 |
Don't worry, Steve. More movies are in the works for me, and one is a follow-up to THE DEVIL'S ROCK, which will have a bigger budget than last time. I was making a general point really, that new film-makers are having a tougher time of it thanks to piracy. It's difficult enough getting a movie made, but when you reach the market-place and then your sales figures are depressed because of illegal downloading, it's pretty frustrating - even more so because it shows that people actually want to watch the movie. I'm not sure what the solution is. It hasn't been resolved up until now, and it's not like it's a new problem. Thanks for buying, by the way. Hope you enjoy. | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
It was the least I could do - following on from your post, mine seemed incredibly insensitive... | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.27.9.228 |
Don't worry, Stephen. We all know you're an unutterable bastard.  | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
You should have seen me before I left Keighley...  | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 92.232.199.129 |
You're not from Keighley, are you Stephen? I live near there! | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
Yep. Why else do you think I'm so arsey all the time...?  By Keighley standards I'm actually quite sensitive and polite! Taking the thread back to the movies, Ranjna was in fits of laughter when she watched Blow Dry (a hairdressing film set but not filmed in Keighley), because it seemed so ridiculous that Josh Hartnett was trying to talk like me. It does actually hurt to see people mocking his supposedly terrible accent on YouTube, because it is pretty much exactly how we speak! | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.27.9.228 |
You're from Keighley? Jesus. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 92.232.199.129 |
Ruddy 'eck! By the way, do those of you who know Keighley think it's somewhat ironic that we've started to discuss the place on a thread entitled "illegal downloads"?  | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 92.232.199.129 |
But back to Paul's point (and my apologies for going off topic so quickly), I think his comment below is very pertinent to the discussion on t'other thread about piracy of digitised books too: "I was making a general point really, that new film-makers are having a tougher time of it thanks to piracy. It's difficult enough getting a movie made, but when you reach the market-place and then your sales figures are depressed because of illegal downloading, it's pretty frustrating - even more so because it shows that people actually want to watch the movie." It's happened in music, and in film - is it going to happen with books too?  (btw glad to hear you've got some new films in the pipeline, Paul) | ||
| Rosswarren (Rosswarren) Username: Rosswarren Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 81.132.145.128 |
I won my copy from Black Static...i'll get my coat. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.176.254.46 |
I'm not paying for this - I'm going to get hold of it for nothing! ...because I asked for it for Christmas... | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
Keighley's actually a good town to talk about with regard to piracy of films, because back then it had one cinema, with two screens, and it showed films months after the big chains did due to some kind of contractual lockout. For years it was then closed altogether, and to watch a film at the cinema we had to go to Bradford. It reopened eventually, but looking at the listings just now, they just have one showing each of four films on tomorrow. In that kind of place, film piracy will inevitably thrive. I'm not saying it's right, but the film industry, I think, will eventually have to follow the line comics, books and music have taken - if you want to get people's money, you have to satisfy their demand before the torrent feeds do. The irony is that piracy is propelling the changes to the delivery of content, and in the process seems to be beating itself. In comics, every single comic on release every week was being scanned in after appearing in the shops and then released as torrents in a big bundle. But now, people have already bought and read the comics on Comixology before there's even been time to do the scanning and torrenting. Comixology was the biggest grossing app on the iStore for something daft like six weeks running. A similar app showing the latest Hollywood releases would do storming business - and, I think, would have hardly any effect on people going to the cinema. So I'm not saying there's no problem, but I don't think the future's hopeless... | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 2.24.37.176 |
Paul, I'm really sorry you've been robbed in this way. I hope the film does well regardless. | ||
| Matthew Fryer (Matthew_fryer) Username: Matthew_fryer Registered: 08-2009 Posted From: 94.12.171.45 |
It's very frustrating Paul, but I hope the sequel doesn't suffer. Out of interest, I asked a work colleague who is an avid reader of fantasy and horror where he buys his ebooks. "Oh, I don't pay for them," he said, looking bamboozled by the very idea. "There's planty of places on-line..." Turns out he genuinely didn't think it was a big deal. And it amazed me that he knows I'm a struggling writer, yet still saw fit to say this to my face. I don't think he was being a dick - he's actually a very pleasant bloke - but like I said, he'd never given it a second thought. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.176.254.46 |
I think that some folk would have films for free even if they were only 1p a copy; it's just their natures not to pay for anything. The upside(!) is that they'd never buy the thing in a million years so that's not a lost sale as such. The problem arises when folk who would happily pay for it realise it can be had for free - a lot would still pay, but there will be a fair few for whom the balance would tip and they'd then take it, and any royalties etc. would then be lost. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.126.164.88 |
Part of the solution to a tangential to the problem, I see developing, is that the internet providers are learning they're losing out - so they're going to create a way to get their cut. I.e., out here, companies like Time Warner and AT&T and so on, they provide internet content, plus cable TV access - but since fewer and fewer people are signing up for cable, and more are ditching it (for free stuff, even legal free stuff, online), they're talking now about a coordinated surcharge on the internet itself: extra fees for increased data downloads. Which will cause mass anger and resentment, wreck the economies of businesses that try to provide free WiFi for customers (the cost of such will become prohibitive), diminish the traffic of so many websites (who'd bother with casually cruising youtube anymore?), cause severe crackdowns on employees' business internet access, etc. What's interesting, is the phenomena of video games, which are wildly popular - the last big video game dump a couple or so weeks ago (which included a new Call of Duty) saw more income in one day to the companies than the best box-office weekend in movie history. These video games are bought largely by younger audiences, the exact kind that seem to want everything for free on the internet. The fear of piracy here is far far less, than it is with music or film... probably because: the video game companies have somehow created a way to control production and distribution; refrained from glutting the market (there aren't a bazillion video games like there are crap-shit-ass movies); and are consistently creating quality product (evidenced by the purchasers) all at the same time. All resulting in the very ideal of a workable business model. What can the others learn from the video game industry....? | ||
| Stephen Theaker (Stephen_theaker) Username: Stephen_theaker Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 77.98.13.43 |
The content providers have one advantage is that they get their hands on it first, and I think it'll all be about how best to exploit that. With older material added value will be key, as with the superb classic Doctor Who dvd range. I don't think it's quite accurate to say piracy hasn't affected gaming - reading Edge each month it's clear that it's devastated non-casual PC gaming. But with the games you mention, everyone wants to be online in that first weekend. I have to admit I'm not entirely sure why Virgin, BT etc don't just say, we're going to block our customers' access to the Pirate Bay (or whoever it is nowadays). Maybe it's for legal reasons, but I'd guess it's because their biggest paying customers pay as much as they do precisely to get the most out of those places. | ||
| Mick Curtis (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.176.254.46 |
I think with gaming the ones that may do best are the ones that have a large online game, as (so far as I'm aware) pirated games can't pass online server checks, so you have to have a genuine copy. |