| Author | Message | ||
     Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 92.232.199.129 |
I was just posting some book news on the BFS site. Looking at a press release, I noticed the author was talking about the themes for her stories: Death Betrayal by a loved one Loneliness, isolation and despair Got me thinking - do you horror writers ever write about *positive* emotions and so on? Or does horror always have to be about negative things? I'm trying to think of stories which use *positive* things - and which might be even more horrific because of that (ie. when the positive turns bad) ... | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.8.27.159 |
You tell me, Caroline. You've read my stuff. | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 92.232.199.129 |
Point taken, Ramsey!  I guess that was a daft question really, and not quite what I was trying to say. Some of the best horror writing starts out all sweetness and light and then everything goes horribly wrong. It wouldn't be horror without the negative stuff. If I wanted to read nice things, I'd read Mills & Boon romances! But I can't understand why we want to read and write all this negative stuff. You'd expect horror readers and writers to be miserable sods! But every horror writer I've met has been really rather nice. So, where does all this horror come from? That's more of a rhetorical question - no need for folk to answer if you don't want to! | ||
| Matt_cowan (Matt_cowan) Username: Matt_cowan Registered: 04-2008 Posted From: 98.253.169.141 |
I was just wondering about this the other day on Facebook. It's a curious thing that drives people like us to consistantly delve into darkness with such luster. I don't have an answer but it would be neat to find out. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.126.164.88 |
Are we leaving out the more obvious practical reason? That once a writer gets established, it's expected s/he remain in that genre, and develop him/herself there, because that's what's become branded and hence translates into sales? | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.8.29.112 |
Not in my case, Craig. I write what engages my imagination. To do otherwise is to be a hack. Where does it come from, Caroline? From looking at the world. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.126.164.88 |
I guess I only meant, that's the norm for Hollywood, Ramsey. "Pick your pigeonhole" is a saying I've heard, here....  | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 213.205.196.61 |
This stems from what I have long called the Ominous Imagination whereby even happy endings hold their own inevitable destruction, in tune with life's entropy. Perhaps I am a sort of inverted hack, in that I seem to write deliberately *against* the grain of potential sales with my 'vexed texture of text.' .... As an experiment in the Ominous Imagination...?. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.8.29.112 |
Well, the happy ending is often so ambiguous or so undermined by the rest of the narrative that it contradicts itself (and may well be meant to). I'm thinking particularly of films: The Reckless Moment, say, or The Lost Weekend or Suspicion. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.131.34.237 |
There probably aren't many happy endings in life let alone fiction. Follow any story to its logical conclusion and it'll end depressingly. Maybe horror stories are just a collection of 'real endings'. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 194.32.31.1 |
I find some of Ramsey's endings profoundly uplifting in a moral sense which could be construed as "something nice". Books like 'Obsession' or 'The Influence' could even be called optimistically spiritual, imo. While the most "positive" emotion of all, Love, is all too often responsible for some of the most dreadful horrors as evidenced by that chapter in 'The Long Lost'... you know the one I mean. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
'But every horror writer I've met has been really rather nice.' Various critics have said that I'm not a horror writer. Now there is proof that I'm not! Michael Marshall Smith's story 'Later' has a happy ending that's grimmer than any unhappy ending could be. Ramsey's right: in horror fiction, the X of a kiss is a cross to which the reader ends up being nailed. Lower and lower swoop the waiting vultures. (Anyone who can tell me the source of that line is promised a flagon of ale – or a pint, anyway – at Fantasycon.) | ||
| Mbfg (Mbfg) Username: Mbfg Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 212.219.63.204 |
I remember Stephen King talking about this. He said that if Zane Grey and himself were both given a waterhole as a subject for a story, Grey would write a novel about water rights, range wars and hired gunfighters, King would put a monster in the water hole that would eat the ranchers' cattle (and probably the ranchers themsleves) and not be able to help himself. | ||
| Pete_a (Pete_a) Username: Pete_a Registered: 07-2011 Posted From: 108.231.165.81 |
"Lower and lower swoop the waiting vultures" I'm going to guess A WITCH SHALL BE BORN, Joel, the Conan-gets-crucified story. I'd have checked, but -- though I know I've got those Jonesy-edited "Complete Chronicles" somewhere -- I can't seem to find them. | ||
| Kate (Kathleen) Username: Kathleen Registered: 09-2009 Posted From: 81.158.152.219 |
I write what my neuroses tell me to write. I'm not a fan of "miserablism" so when things start out bleak and horrible already, it often seems like there's nowhere left to go emotionally. Plus I find the heads of miserable characters too unpleasant to spend much time in. I want my 2000 miles of pleasant sailing before we hit the iceberg. | ||
| Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin) Username: Richard_gavin Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 65.110.174.68 |
I only write about nice things. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.74.229 |
Happiness writes white on the page, as someone once said. Only Tolstoy could really make joy swing in fiction. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.74.229 |
There some wonderfully joyful passages in War and Peace, mostly associated with first experiences in youth. Then someone starts a war.  | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.74.229 |
Me, I crave dark material because only that - and hysterical comedy - can break beyond my deadened emotions. | ||
| Christopher Overend (Chris_overend) Username: Chris_overend Registered: 03-2012 Posted From: 217.33.165.66 |
Gary: That's how I feel about horror. There is more at stake in horror than in any other genre for me: the horrors of death and what lies beyond; the vulnerable mind tormented to the brink of insanity, which would be a blessing if the horrors were real enough. Nothing else comes close in terms of dragging me in. Slapshot, Kingpin, There's Something About Mary and The Big Lebowski are a few comedies that come to mind as being close, though. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.74.229 |
Alan Ayckbourn and Woody Allen for me. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.8.20.83 |
Bringing Up Baby and Abagail's Party, not to mention Grownups... | ||
| Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin) Username: Richard_gavin Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 65.110.174.68 |
"Me, I crave dark material because only that - and hysterical comedy - can break beyond my deadened emotions." Well said, Gary. I fully agree. I often say that Horror is a force that shakes us from the white noise stupor in which human beings, myself included, spend far too much of our lives. | ||
| Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin) Username: Richard_gavin Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 65.110.174.68 |
For comedy: The Marx Bros., George Carlin, and Little Britain spring to mind. | ||
| Mbfg (Mbfg) Username: Mbfg Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 62.255.207.128 |
Comedy? "Little Miss Sunshine" | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.66.23.11 |
Comedies - Airplane, Life of Brian, Family Guy, American Dad Sorry but Little Britain just makes me want to throw heavy objects at the television. A more despicably unfunny show I have yet to see. Escape from Sobibor has more laughs in it than the repetitive droolings of messrs Lucas and Walliams. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.31.74.229 |
That airline spoof they did was funny. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Little Britain was a mash-up of The League of Gentlemen and The Fast Show, dumbed down for Daily Mail readers. Pete – I owe you a flagon of ale. But only if you support my campaign to have Conan recognised as a former citizen of Dudley (on the basis of his fondness for the word 'wench'). | ||
| Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin) Username: Richard_gavin Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.158.83.240 |
Joel - I've not seen The League of Gentlemen, though have been meaning to. Never even heard of The Fast Show. I don't believe the Daily Mail is well circulated in Canada, but even if it was I doubt I'd read it. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.253.142 |
Just because something is bleak and squalid it shouldn't leave you feeling dirty. That's true author failure. You should be enlivened by the despair and depravity, see the richness of something glittering within it, even if it's only the writing. Martin Amis expressed great disappointment when someone told him characters like Keith Talent left them feeling dirty and grubby and depressed. He pointed to the end of Henry 5 as an example of great art that should leave you wanting to slit your wrists but bouys you up and has your blood pounding for life. Personally, I find a lot of horror fiction uplifting. It's taking the reader to the extremes of experience and through great expression there imbuing the flesh with a tingling sense of awe. It's what Ramsey has done for me with his story 'The Ferries' and his novel Midnight Sun, to mention just two. They're not grubby tales. But both contain sadness and loneliness, and yet a sense of higher possibilities. Gutter. Stars. That thing. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.18.174.156 |
I completely agree with your assessment of 'Little Britain', Joel. Staggeringly unfunny bilge that had me harking back to the relative hilarity of the Dick Emery Show with fond affection. | ||
| Richard_gavin (Richard_gavin) Username: Richard_gavin Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 69.158.83.240 |
Joel, Stevie - I spent some time today watching clips of The League of Gentlemen on YouTube. Ye gods! Not only was I unaware of how much Little Britain pulled from this show, I also had no idea how much better, and indeed creepier, League is. The skits that made me laugh on Little Britain tended to be the more surreal ones rather than the crasser ones. But I now see how strong an, ahem, influence League was. I am converted. Canada receives little to no British programming. Until I joined Ramsey's board I had no idea that League even existed. Just like I didn't know about Nigel Kneale's Beasts until Zed suggested it to me a couple of years ago. I'm glad I investigated both. Though because I confessed to finding some of Little Britain funny, I now harbour serious anxieties that folks here consider me a "chav." | ||
| Alexicon (Alexicon) Username: Alexicon Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 212.139.85.97 |
Stevie - I trust that 'Father Ted' features high on your top twenty list of comedy shows. It may be old, but it never fails to raise some mighty chuckles in this household. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 62.254.173.13 |
Father Ted is genius. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
Just because something is bleak and squalid it shouldn't leave you feeling dirty. That's true author failure. No, it's true reader failure. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.253.69 |
Not sure the author can blame the reader for what he writes, though of course to some extent the process of the book reading thing is a collaborative thingamujig. I agree with Amis, though. And James Herbert, now I come to think of it: 'You can write about any depravity or perversion if you do it with style'. Or something like that. Someone who never gets much of a good press on here, so I'm sorry to mention him, ole Mr Hutson - his books left me feeling dirty, the few I read. If your intention is to make someone feel dirty, it's not horror, is it? It's not awe. It's not about peering into the darkness and seeing your reflection. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.5.43.148 |
I've heard so many people say that - for example - Joel Lane's work is too bleak and miserable, that I've lost count. It isn't; it's truthful and life-affirming. Those readers have simply failed to pick up on those nuances. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.253.247 |
Yeah, I think there's some truth to that argument, Zed. I was thinking about what you said, and certainly a certain level of intelligence is required before opening a book! I find Joel's stuff is often bleak (as is yours), but it's never made me feel dirty in the way Shaun Hutson's stuff has. Depressed is fine, uncomfortable is fine, despairing even is fine. Dirty isn't. Dirty's picking up the discarded book on the train and curling your lips in disgust as you realise it's The Secret Diary of a Call Girl and it's not damp with water or a spilled coffee... | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
I don't think I've ever been left feeling dirty by a book. I feel like I'm missing out. I do find relentless misery in all fiction tends to bore me, though. I know he has a lot of fans on here, but David Peace's work, for me, went beyond misery and into something like slapstick. I ended up laughing at how hard he was trying to be grim. Not the intended effect, I think. | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
To go back to the original question, though, one of the joys of horror fiction is its breadth. Death, betrayal and loneliness are only a few facets. At its best, horror can be used to illustrate - to pick an example at random - strength of family or friendship (King does this often), or invoke awe which is one of the most powerful of positive emotions. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.254.214 |
Yeah, I've time for Peace. Haven't read everything he's written, so I've not got to his unintended slapstick. I thought his Damned Utd was excellent. Scarring in a good way, if that's possible. I'm looking forward to immersing myself in his Tokyo books...unless this is where the comedy starts. | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.40.254.84 |
Incidentally, I recently read Headstone by Ken Bruen, and found its off-stage mutilation scene stayed with me long after I'd finished the book. Probably because the protagonist has to live with the disfigurement and disablement in future books, Headstone being a Jack Taylor series book. Bruen's Taylor books are relentlessly grim, written in an affected but pared-down, distinctive style. Hardboiled noir set in a Galway that's as strange and surreal as Father Ted's Craggy Island in some ways...and yet I really do like the books. Maybe it's because Bruen gets a lot into very little. I doubt the books reach 60,000 words very often. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 2.24.37.197 |
Thanks for the recommendation, Mark. I like short novels. Most US publishers won't touch them any more because the cover price isn't high enough for them to be discounted. Writers (and journalists) who try to be accurate are usually dismissed as 'miserable'. As Theodor Adorno said, the rage of popular culture against anything 'negative' is like the rage of a tyrannical father when the family don't all laugh at his jokes. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.18.174.156 |
Stevie - I trust that 'Father Ted' features high on your top twenty list of comedy shows. It may be old, but it never fails to raise some mighty chuckles in this household. Hey, Alex, great to hear from you again! Just for you here's my Top 20 TV comedy shows: 1. Sgt Bilko 2. Monty Python's Flying Circus 3. Steptoe & Son 4. The League Of Gentlemen 5. Curb Your Enthusiasm 6. Seinfeld 7. Blackadder 8. Rising Damp 9. Fawlty Towers 10. The Likely Lads/Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads? 11. Red Dwarf 12. Father Ted 13. Hancock's Half Hour/Hancock 14. The Day Today/Knowing Me, Knowing You/I'm Alan Partridge 15. The Young Ones/Filthy, Rich & Catflap/Bottom 16. Not The Nine O'Clock News 17. The Larry Sanders Show 18. The Fall And Rise Of Reginald Perrin 19. Porridge 20. Brass Eye . . 30. The Harry Enfield Television Programme/Harry Enfield And Chums/etc... . . 123. The Dick Emery Show [although his masterpiece, 'Legacy Of Murder' (1982), is in my Top 40] . . 10,054. Little Britain | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.108.73 |
I liked some of the REGGIE PERRIN remake. The bittersweet moments rather than the comedy. It had more heart than Rossiter's version, I felt. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 86.130.101.85 |
No 'Black Books'? | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.66.23.11 |
no Psychoville? | ||
| Carolinec (Carolinec) Username: Carolinec Registered: 06-2009 Posted From: 92.232.199.129 |
No 'Allo 'Allo? | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.24.1.217 |
No 'Open All Hours'? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 109.79.82.78 |
No Sgt Bilko? | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.18.174.156 |
You're taking the mick, surely, Proto! Read the list from the top again. 'Psychoville' is No. 23, just behind 'The Office' & 'The Mighty Boosh'. 'Black Books' would be in my Top 80. Sorry, Caroline, not a fan of ''Allo 'Allo' and it would be about 217. 'Dad's Army', however, is in my Top 35, down to the imperishable strength of the performances and the spot-on period detail, rather than the scripts - though it was Perry & Croft at their absolute funniest. 'Open All Hours' was a bit bland for my tastes, perhaps in the 180s, along with 'Last Of The Summer Wine', etc. | ||
| Christopher Overend (Chris_overend) Username: Chris_overend Registered: 03-2012 Posted From: 217.33.165.66 |
With Little Britain, nipping at their heels at a cool 10,054? My sister was a teacher. She liked Little Britain initially, but she soon learned to hate it; it took over the school. Anything she said to her class was replied with "Computer says no," or some other related witticism. | ||
| Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey) Username: Ramsey Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 92.8.31.86 |
And - in a way related to the original theme of the thread - how about Jam? | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Jam was very good indeed. Not so much comedy as bitter and angry satire. I loved most of it, but didn't laugh once. As a Trevor Griffiths character says of Grock, "He weren't even funny, just truthful." | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.198.138 |
Yes, I was taking the mick. But seriously, THE OFFICE (UK or US) doesn't even chart? | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.198.138 |
What about MEN BEHAVING BADLY? Patchy, but sometimes damned funny. ("Jesus was God, wasn't he? A bit younger.") | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.18.174.156 |
I absolutely loved 'Jam' and even have the soundtrack CD - one of my weirdest discs in a collection full of musical weirdness. It comes in at No. 27, just behind the not dissimilar 'Big Train' (hilarious show), and I consider Chris Morris one of the greatest comedy geniuses of the modern era. 'Nathan Barley' is in my Top 60. | ||
| Protodroid (Protodroid) Username: Protodroid Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 78.152.198.138 |
No FRIENDS? Personally I think RISING DAMP, PORRIDGE, HANCOCK (and DAD'S ARMY, which isn't listed) benefit far too much from nostaliga. SEINFELD is a giant question mark to me. I like the stand-up, but the contrived gurning on the rest of that show leaves me feeling that I've tuned into a channel in a foreign language. And that bloody slap guitar... | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.18.174.156 |
'Friends' might just scrape the Top 200, Proto. Awful show! As for 'Seinfeld', I used to think as you did until I watched all 9 Seasons in their entirety, one-a-week, on DVD and was blown away by how consistently hilarious and damn clever it was. The immortal George Costanza was the prototype for "Larry David" and 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' can be seen as the most inspired sequel in comedy history. The funniest US sitcom since Bilko, no contest. | ||
| Des (Des) Username: Des Registered: 09-2010 Posted From: 86.167.111.39 |
I don't know much about TV and films, but I am surprised that BLACK BOOKS isn't in the top ten TV comedy series of everyone here. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.126.164.88 |
When you get around to seeing HBO's new series "Girls," Stevie, you will be putting that on your top 20, guaranteed. It's not your traditional sitcom, rather, very subtle and dark. Lena Dunham—the creator, writer, director, and lead actress—is a gifted young woman. The show is brilliant. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.38.121 |
My favourite live action American Sitcom is probably Malcolm in the Middle. Having said that, I've just started watching a recent show just called The Middle, which covers similar territory with the massively dysfunctional central family, and really enjoying that as well. The characters are less extreme and there certainly is no genius in that family but it makes me lol several times an episode which is the key to these things really. If the rest of the series is as good as whet i've seen so far, Malcolm has competition. My all time favourite US comedy has to be Family Guy - American Dad comes close but has never quite surpassed FG for sheer darkness and inspired lunacy. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.38.121 |
http://www.knibbworld.com/campbelldiscuss/messages/1/2175.html Can I direct you to Stevie's comments on psychoville in this thread and then say ONLY NUMBER 23???? | ||
| Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch) Username: Mark_lynch Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 94.197.127.128 |
I find The Inbetweeners funny. I know it's wrong, a guy my age, but I do. Alarmingly like being at school again for me...but without the overriding sense of doom from imminent nuclear anihilation. Ah, the 80s... | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.126.164.88 |
I too have discovered "The Middle," Weber, and greatly enjoy it. I find it a shocking sitcom: it's shocking because it's so damned clean! Not a crude double entendre or sex joke or anything like that in sight, not even distantly hinted at; and so, it's stands apart from the entire swath of current sitcoms, where crude sex humor is so ubiquitous, it's actually boring now.... | ||
| John Forth (John) Username: John Registered: 05-2008 Posted From: 82.132.136.184 |
I too was against Seinfeld until I watched a box-set (as opposed to just catching the occasional episode), then I saw there was a lot more to it than I originally thought. The show subverts many of the tropes of the American sitcom, while slavishly following the presentation/format. Some of the episodes are expertly crafted. Loved the first series of Black Books. After that it was a bit patchy, but occasionally fantastic. The Middle baffles me. It looks, sounds, and has half the name of Malcolm in the Middle, but appears completely unrelated in terms of production/writing staff or even network. Is it a rip-off or what? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.42.53.119 |
I've been watching some Peter Kay stuff (Weber - i know your views so don't repeat them thanks!) and while he's patchy he can be incredibly clever and funny. I was sad Max and Paddy petered out but last night we watched his oldest show, That Peter Kay thing and it might be the best. He's so good at being other characters - I'd no idea his range was so broad. He's very talented - or was, seeing as he only does live shows now. Some characters I've not seen him do before feel like real people. That PK Thing also captures a time and place that is fading fast - no other comedy had so many real people in them, or such old ones. I like Inbetweeners too. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.42.53.119 |
Friends is a classic. I challenge you to watch an episode now and not end up, you know, laughing. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.37.199.45 |
Friends was a delivery vehicle for skilfully crafted gags, but its one-minute scenes and general made to measure feel was annoying. Frazier had more continuity and heart, as well as some wonderfully stylish moments. It was analogue where Friends was digital. We've gone off-topic big time. I'm interested in the way that putting incidental nice moments into horror fiction can function as a kind of irony. Death, pain, madness and... kittens. Disease, loathing, eternal torment and... biscuits. It's irresistible at a camp level. And it's nothing like trying to dilute horror with upbeat messages – which doesn't work. Camp deserves a thread of its own, or rather a forum of its own – if not an internet of its own. But camp in horror does not begin and end with the crass, attention-grabbing likes of Vincent Price. Much quieter, sharper forms of ironic subversion in the context of terror are possible. Poppy Z. Brite's first novel is a fine example. So is Cornell Woolrich's Phantom Lady. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.156.210.82 |
That Peter Kay Thing was excellent - proper character-driven comedy. I remember a great one about an ice cream vendor. Kay's huge success has kind of been his downfall. These days it seems that he feels obliged to do broad, crowd-pleasing stuff rather than the quieter character studies that made his name. | ||
| Stevie Walsh (Stephenw) Username: Stephenw Registered: 03-2009 Posted From: 82.18.174.156 |
Completely agree with that, Zed. A better comic actor and writer than he is a stand-up, imo. But try telling that to the crowds who lap up his gurning onstage antics. Sad, really. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.42.53.119 |
I like him live, though, too, that's the daft thing. Watching the series' he made I think he struggles with the writing, especially with narrative. It could be very sloppy, structure-wise. Scene for scene he was generally excellent (with a few exceptions.) Sorry, Joel. | ||
| Weber (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 194.66.23.11 |
Sorry Tony, but Friends is the worst type of bland, written-by-committee, non-funny "comedy" that the states has ever produced. IMHO. I've seen 10 minutes of Peter kay doing live stand up. I don't think I need to say what I thought of it. Reference my other comments about his work. The Middle treads a lot of the same ground as Malcolm in the Middle but with more immediately sympathetic characters - and slightly more realistically drawn children. As funny as MITM was, the characters weren't truly recognisable, although the cringe-making (in a good way) embarrassment of the situations young Malcolm found himself in were. | ||
| Craig (Craig) Username: Craig Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 99.126.164.88 |
Is anyone watching Ricky Gervais' "Life's Too Short"? This sketch alone had me  -ing—funniest bit I've seen anywhere this year: http://youtu.be/MKTh7zBIcrM |