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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.59.115.60
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:03 pm:   

I think my grammar 'awareness' is pretty good, and I came across the following in S. J. Bolton's "Now You See Me":-

"It was hard to imagine two women more different than she and Geraldine Jones".

Shouldn't that be 'her and Grealdine Jones'? If the pairing was at the start of the sentence I would expect the "she and..." but not at the end. Has my old brain betrayed me in this instance or do you agree that the sentence should contain 'her'?

You can tell I'm not that gripped by the novel, can't you?
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Des (Des)
Username: Des

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 86.140.213.21
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:35 pm:   

or different from - different to - rather than different than?
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 195.59.115.60
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:55 pm:   

I think the 'than' is probably ok as it's comparing the two women rather than comparing something else to them.
...and I misspelled Geraldine the second time too! D'oh!
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.19.127
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 01:29 pm:   

Different than is correct here, yes, but it should indeed be "her". It's the same irritating mistake that so often has people saying "between you and I" and the like. Pronouns after prepositions take the accusative; two pronouns in a phrase following a preposition both take it. I take it your recasting of the sentence would be along the lines of "She and Geraldine Jones could hardly be more different", Mick, which would be correct.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.208.239
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 01:54 pm:   

That's exactly it, Ramsey - thank you.
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.37.199.45
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 02:11 pm:   

Maybe that's one of the ways in which they were different?
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.40.254.40
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 02:21 pm:   

I'm reading David Hewson's Writing: A User Manual at the moment, and so far - 3/4s through - he's told me a lot about planning, writing software, and alas very little about grammar. In fact, he sort of dismissed it as something you don't really have to worry about a few chapters ago. just keep it simple and clear and in short sentences, he reckons, none of that Thomas Hardy stuff.

You can get 20% off Scrivener, the writing software, by using HEWSONBOOK as a discount coupon code online, however.

Haven't read Bolton, so can't really comment on the usuage overall, if it's an intended prose effect or not, but supermarket thrillers do enjoy a language of their own quite often.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.211.72
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 02:46 pm:   

Have you seen the 50 shades text generator? Fantastic stuff. Write your own best selling novel. When i get home i'll post a link if someone hasn't beaten me to it.
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.181.208.239
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 04:22 pm:   

I've just finished taking part in a work conference call. One of the managers on the call said "myself and Jim will be looking at that early next week"! Argh!

Someone else on the call pronounced mooted as muted...
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Mark_lynch (Mark_lynch)
Username: Mark_lynch

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.40.254.157
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 04:42 pm:   

Given the subject matter of 50 Shades, Marc, someone should beat you! ;-)
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.209.10
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 05:30 pm:   

As long as they do it properly... I can supply the equipment.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 11:11 pm:   

My grammar's never been very good. Probably why my grampar left her....

http://youtu.be/obKLdou0LH0
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Mick Curtis (Mick)
Username: Mick

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.180.123.78
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2012 - 10:30 am:   

I've now finished reading the book. There are grammatical errors throughout, the last I read being:-

"We crossed the boiler room, I leading..."

In the acknowledgements the author thanks someone for providing "eagle-eyed proofreading". I think any profits from the book's sales should go towards the cost of an eye test for this person.
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.22.227
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2012 - 12:15 pm:   

Perhaps it was an eagle, Mick!
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Joel (Joel)
Username: Joel

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 2.24.29.206
Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2012 - 12:31 am:   

In which case he was no falcon use.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 08:42 am:   

I have another grammatical issue:

"Regardless of"

Is this correct? "Regardless of what you think, I'm sure you're wrong." Is that "of" necessary?

You'd say, "Regarding what you think...", not "Regarding of what you think..."

"Regarding the issue at hand..." "Regardless the issue at hand..."
"Regarding how we proceed..." "Regardless how we proceed..."

Isn't that "of" kinda redundant-y?
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.18.4
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 11:29 am:   

It's idiomatic, but I wouldn't live without it myself. To clarify

"Regardless, I'd still use it" - here the word is an adverb.

"Regardless of what I said" - here Fowler argues it's an adjective used adverbially, and I'd go with that notion.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.57.117
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 01:25 pm:   

Would "We can do it regardless" be correct?
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Ramsey Campbell (Ramsey)
Username: Ramsey

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 92.8.18.4
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 01:37 pm:   

I'd say yes, Hubert, but it's possibly colloquial.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2012 - 04:02 pm:   

It does sound naggingly incorrect, removing that "of," yes....
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 05:08 pm:   

So I heard a rather well-known U.S. TV news commentator speaking about Madonna's recent on-stage rant. During it, she brought up the assassinations of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr., and that "now it's amazing to think we have an African-American in the White House.

Madonna immediately followed that up with, "So they didn't die for nothing."

This commentator ruthlessly attacked that line, as illiterate: as grammatically incorrect. The correct way to express this, he said, is, "So they didn't die in vain."

I've been wracking my brains, but I'm having trouble determining how exactly this line is incorrect. Must be a hole there in that part of my mind....
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Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.31.88.121
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 05:32 pm:   

Its convoluted meaning is reason enough to revise, surely.
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Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.61.227
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 05:57 pm:   

The question is: did the audience understand her? I'm sure they did. And in that light all other considerations are irrelevant, really.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.216.20
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 06:03 pm:   

It's a sign that you know you've lost the arguement when you attack someone's grammar rather than addressing the point they're trying to make. I can't see anything wrong with the sentence either. Especially not when spoken and revising it isn't an option.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 06:20 pm:   

Thank God! I'm not alone then.... Though I wish he'd explained it.
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 06:27 pm:   

It's because it wasn't the upper middle class way of expressing it.

They didn't die in vain - I know it's grammatically correct, but if I saw it in dialogue in a book, unless the character was some kind of well educated college professor or general grammar nazi, I'd think no one actually talks like that.

In the text of the story (as opposed to the dialogue, I'd have no problem with it.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 06:40 pm:   

But why is the other one supposedly grammatically IN-correct, Weber? I understand upper- and middle-class differences in expression, but I'm not getting the actual error part of it....
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Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 82.145.210.92
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 07:03 pm:   

Neither am i. I suppose you could argue a very vague ambiguity to it. Or possibly a double negative but the meaning is abundantly clear with or without context so clutching at straws springs to mind.
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Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 07:06 pm:   

Apparently it's sparked a huge debate - and we're on the right side together, Weber (believe it or not): http://linguaphiles.livejournal.com/5819581.html?nojs=1

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