What movie bad guys do you root for a... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

RAMSEY CAMPBELL » Discussion » What movie bad guys do you root for and why? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 194.66.23.11
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 03:08 pm:   

discuss...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gary Fry (Gary_fry)
Username: Gary_fry

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 86.25.8.31
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 04:18 pm:   

Jason in every Friday 13th film.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.239.242.230
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 04:27 pm:   

Even the first one where the killer was his mother?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 04:49 pm:   

"Death," in the Final Destination films.

And because I love seeing the creative and innovative ways he offs his poor victims there—Death is an artist!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 05:52 pm:   

Robert De Niro's character "Noodles" in 'Once Upon A Time In America'... one hell of a bad guy!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 05:54 pm:   

Also, Wile E. Coyote... I bloody hate that Roadrunner!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.60.39
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 07:55 pm:   

Frank in Once Upon a Time in the West. Relentlessly sadistic.

Darth Vader before he became a blonde little teddy bear.

John Doe in 7even. The ultimate creep.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 08:05 pm:   

Gollum in 'The Hobbit' & 'Lord Of The Rings' movies. I really wanted him to get his "precious" back.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 08:07 pm:   

HAL in '2001 : A Space Odyssey'. His "death" scene is one of the most moving in cinema history.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 92.16.240.222
Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 09:01 pm:   

Gerard Butler in Law Abiding Citizen.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 31.115.163.242
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 09:53 am:   

On tv, Alice in Luther. She's lovely. Lonely and interesting.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 11:29 am:   

There's an interesting little 70s slasher movie called 'When A Stranger Calls' in which the psychopath is by far the most sympathetic character - you really do root for him - and the detective hunting him is a ruthlessly cold, amoral bastard. A fine horror film that overturns all the accepted conventions of the day.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 02:27 pm:   

Every time I watch the Bond film, The Man With the Golden Gun, I always want Scaramanga to bump off Bond for good in that scene at the end in the mirrored room. Basically, it's because I think Christopher Lee plays such an awesome baddie and Roger Moore's Bond is a complete wimp.

Oh, and I hate it when the villagers go after Karloff's creature in the Frankenstein films. He's not a baddie - he's just misunderstood!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Thomasb (Thomasb)
Username: Thomasb

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 75.25.141.120
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 07:42 pm:   

Lee Van Cleef as Angel Eyes in The Good, the Bad & the Ugly: like being staked out on a desert floor, watching a sidewinder rattlesnake coming right for you. The first time I saw it, I actually felt sorry when he slid into his grave.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.60.39
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 08:50 pm:   

The Man With the Golden Gun

The only Bond film I've never seen in its entirety. It just sort of slips through the cracks all the time.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Carolinec (Carolinec)
Username: Carolinec

Registered: 06-2009
Posted From: 92.232.244.38
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 09:41 pm:   

I think it's one of only two or three Bond films I've watched all the way through, Hubert - I'm not a great Bond fan. It's worth watching for Lee's performance alone ... especially if you imagine my "alternative ending".
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kate (Kathleen)
Username: Kathleen

Registered: 09-2009
Posted From: 86.177.138.167
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2013 - 10:39 am:   

The animals in just about every creature feature: Jaws, Alligator, Frogs, The Birds, Pirahna, Megapython vs. Gatoroid...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Alexicon (Alexicon)
Username: Alexicon

Registered: 10-2009
Posted From: 79.66.127.159
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 12:21 am:   

The psychopath with the abbatoir bolt-gun and compressed-air cylinder in 'No Country for Old Men'.

Although well smashed up at the end he still manages to escape retribution.

A very vivid Coen Brothers character played by Javier Bardem.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 31.54.11.58
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 01:09 am:   

Technically a Cormac macarthy character rather than a Coens... but yes, I'll go with that choice.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 217.42.49.91
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 11:11 am:   

Man with the Golden Gun - we rewatched it recently and it had no momentum. The boat chase never gets started. My memories of it as a kid though are great. :s
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 12:47 pm:   

'The Man With The Golden Gun' is a particularly weak Bond that nearly finished Roger Moore after a marvellous first film. It tried too hard to copy the format of 'Live And Let Die' instead of being its own film. The shoe-horning in of the fat sheriff character for cheap laughs was a particularly ill-judged move.

But then the same thing happened to Daniel Craig... 'Quantum Of Solace' was dreadfully disappointing after the excellence of 'Casino Royale' but he's still there and 'Skyfall', for all its undeserved praise as "the best Bond ever", was a marked improvement. Be interesting to see how the remodelling of the franchise, with all those new faces in key roles, continues from here.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.60.39
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 08:49 pm:   

Oddly enough I prefer Quantum of Solace to Casino Royale. There's an otherness about it one seldom finds in Bond movies. And the opera sequence is surely worth the price of admission. A pity the Quantum crime organisation was dissolved - or was it? It reminded me of SPECTRE.

For ythose of you who enjoyed Prometheus: there's talk about a sequel directed by Ridley Scott . . .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 12:10 pm:   

I'm still itching to see the full Directors Cut version on DVD, Hubert. For me it's arguably the finest sci-fi movie of the last 13 years and is certainly the best sci-fi/horror. Beautifully Lovecraftian in tone. A sequel was always on the cards given how it ended and I, for one, can't wait.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 03:05 pm:   

I much prefer Quantum to Casino, what with having rewatched Casino recently. It felt uneventful, the events that did happen not being particularly well done. I think it did well on novelty value, being fresh.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 03:35 pm:   

Casino and Quantum are essentially a two-part film—they're so well-connected, it's hard to separate them. But I agree, and have long maintained, Quantum is the finer part, and better than many have allowed (not seen this third one yet).

Another villain I rooted for, wholeheartedly?... Dr. Giggles.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mbfg (Mbfg)
Username: Mbfg

Registered: 09-2010
Posted From: 212.219.63.204
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 03:43 pm:   

To answer the question posed by the thread title...

Any bad guy played by Jack Palance - in 1970-ish, he played Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde in a British TV adaptation. My memory of it is that it was fantastic.

Cheers
Terry
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 04:22 pm:   

My reading of Daniel Craig's three Bonds are that 'Casino Royale' was a startlingly gritty and convincing rejuvenation of the franchise, 'Quantum Of Solace' was a badly edited and irritating slam-bang action movie in which it was well nigh impossible to follow what was going on (without developing a migraine) and that 'Skyfall' was a marked improvement and a quality thriller back to the standard of Brosnan's Bonds that has been over-hyped and over-praised quite ridiculously. It's hardly more entertaining or memorable than last year's 'The Bourne Legacy' (again, excellent fun) and was inferior to Steven Soderbergh's 'Haywire', imho. Not enough was made of Javier Bardem's villain, the plot was full of holes and illogical character motivations and the big action finale was a complete letdown after the well maintained suspense that got us there. Compare the final shootout in 'Skyfall' to the climactic chase in 'The Bourne Legacy' (possibly the best sustained action sequence of last year) to see what I mean.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 11:44 am:   

Come to think of it I always root for the bad guys in Bond films.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 92.16.240.222
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 04:25 pm:   

You could argue that Bond IS the bad guy in Bond films...a ruthless, misogynistic killer furthering the aims of a corrupt colonial power.

Possibly The Kurgan from Highlander...just because he seems to be having so much more fun with his immortality than the hero.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 04:30 pm:   

I like your take on Bond, David. I'm an old traditionalist and always tend to side with the good guys. I genuinely want all those poor innocent screaming teens (who only wanted to shag and smoke pot) to escape from Michael/Jason/Freddie/etc. Yet my sympathy for Bond villains would seem to concur with your reading. Bond is a hateful bastard we would love to see taken down - yet we can't help wanting to be him at the same time. The human condition...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 194.32.31.1
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 04:36 pm:   

In a way Bond is my most despised "good guy" and Superman is my perfect hero. The guy in red and blue is the one I most often fantasise about having the powers of, when confronted with news stories of horror and injustice. But would I have the willpower to use those powers solely for good... there lies the rub.

Is it nearly hometime yet?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.97.160.164
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 05:14 pm:   

No, Bond is good. To think otherwise is just trying show off. Hasn't anyone paid attention to what the bad guys do?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 92.16.240.222
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 09:00 pm:   

I actually like Bond, that was just a random thought that occurred while reading the thread. Though he was undoubtedly a total bastard in the earliest films. A necessary evil more than a hero perhaps?

I think Alan Moore feels the same as you though, Stevie. The Bond family keep cropping up in his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen comics and certainly aren't heroic or pleasant people.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 09:22 pm:   

Refer to our previous thread on Bond. Thumbnail sketch: Bond is a demi-god, an angelic presence (but not so humanly "moral"); M's office is a Mt. Olympus of sorts, where Bond's summoned by "Zeus" for his latest mission (note how we never see where Bond actually lives). Bond, being supra-human, cannot make mistakes, can commit no errors; errors only come by interference or through the humans he interacts with—and they are few in Bond films, peopled as they are mostly by demi-gods and demons, with humans little ants in the background (ants to which the deeds of Angels/Demons they are at the whims of). There's always one human (i.e., non-Angel/Demon/Devil) woman, who tempts Bond's lust... it nearly always goes awry when he succumbs (his one flaw: he's susceptible to human sexual urges), for her and/or Bond. The main villains are Devils loosed upon Earth, themselves a notch more perfect[sic.] than Bond—they have no chinks in their armor, except for their vanity, their pride, through which they always ultimately fall.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 2.96.201.121
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 12:05 am:   

We do see where Bond lives - in both Dr No and Live and Let Die.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 12:48 am:   

Dr. No was sort of before there was a pattern firmly established; Live and Let Die, I'm momentarily blanking on—regardless, I think most of what I say is unassailable as a non-exclusive-to-others-too generalized theory....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 10:24 am:   

I hate the way Bond is portrayed by Alan Moore. It put me off the LOEG books.
Craig - the gods were always shagging humans. And the bad guys, they always seemed to have injuries akin to Lucifer's limp, some scar or disfigurment. A sign of a 'fall'. And these ingredients need to be there *every time*.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 212.140.118.61
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 10:26 am:   

Fleming said you should always have an ordinary person dragged into the adventure. He regretted it never happened much in the films, and was pleased to see it happen regularly in Man from Uncle.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 04:23 pm:   

I hadn't thought about the scar/disfigurement element, Tony. You're right, so many, if not all, Bond villains have these disfiguring flaws.

I wonder if these have been conscious decisions all these years? It seems impossible, but that rather, the writers are tapping into an ancient story pattern that fixes the form for them: a force more powerful than the screenwriting mind....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tony (Tony)
Username: Tony

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 31.112.159.151
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 04:48 pm:   

And ones we tinker with at our peril. Dare I go back yo 'templates'? Maybe we need these stories, told again and again?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

David_lees (David_lees)
Username: David_lees

Registered: 12-2011
Posted From: 92.22.63.197
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 04:58 pm:   

I had to Google the apartment thing - I could remember Roger Moore hiding a girl in his closet when M shows up unexpectedly but not the film. I'd forgotten about the Dr No scene even though I watched that again only a few weeks back. I think I probably assumed it was a hotel room rather than his flat, since that is usually where we see Bond.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 05:04 pm:   

Of course Bond is evil. All spies and intelligence service workers are an evil that is deemed necessary by the government/regime they work for, or say they work for...

Just watch 'Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy' or 'Shadow Dancer' to see their world stripped of all glamour.

What impresses me about Sean Connery & Daniel Craig's take on the character is the no holds barred portrayal of just what a cocky, arrogant, double crossing, ruthless and smirkingly cruel yet devilishly charming and witty bastard he is. He's a hatefully arrogant character one can't help warming to because of his complete self-belief and utter chutzpah. Kind of like Eric Cantona, really.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Weber (Weber_gregston)
Username: Weber_gregston

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 80.239.243.206
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 07:42 pm:   

I think the bad guy i side with most, to answer my own original question, has to be Mr Thomas Ripley.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 11:49 pm:   

Ripley is the finest everyman criminal character ever created, Weber.

He's sucked into a life of crime by refusing to accept his lot and wanting a slice of the good life and only murders by necessity when that painfully won good life is threatened. The most moving of all the Ripley novels is 'The Boy Who Followed Ripley' because he really loved that callow youth [sometimes quite disturbingly] because he recognised it was himself in 'The Talented Mr Ripley', when he was at his most vulnerable and necessarily ruthless. He paid for those crimes over and over again in the years to come.

Fuck Hannibal Lecter. Tom Ripley is the finest genuine psychopath fiction has ever presented us with. End of story.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 03:55 am:   

Stevie, Bond is not evil—through my interpretation, he only kills "demons," and never the innocent. The innocent die sometimes by his falling to his own lusts; he actually dared to secure human love forever in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, and this resulted in his greatest downfall—a film darkly tragic, singularly so in the Bond canon. These are not gritty realistic spy stories, like the ones you mention... they are fables, like tales of the Knights of the Round Table. They've gotten sincerely darker with the entry of Daniel Craig, but they still fit the (wait for it) template (though I've not seen this latest one yet). Geez, give a hard-working been-through-some-tough-times spy-busy-saving-the-world-while-you-sleep some slack!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 11:58 am:   

I haven't read them, Craig, but I've heard the Bond of Ian Fleming's novels was exactly the ruthless and sadistic bastard I've described him as but with an irresistible streak of devilish charm. I thought Sean Connery put that across better than any other actor who has played the role - plus he was fortunate enough never to star in a below par official Bond movie. Daniel Craig has come closest to Connery's multi-layered portrayal but just lacks the dangerous charm element. He can't crack a joke for toffee.

Bond is a spy in the employ of Her Majesty's Secret Service and in that role his one "good" quality is his loyalty. But that loyalty is to the nation, not humanity, and, as some clever chap once said, "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

I love Bond but I don't like him.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craig (Craig)
Username: Craig

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 99.126.164.88
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 04:47 pm:   

Better to look at Bond like (a less brooding, angst-ridden, tragically Hamlet-ish) Elric of Melniboné, Stevie: his job is always to set the balance right between the forces of good and evil. Status quo is his ultimate mission, not ultimate triumph. The super-villains in Bond flicks seek too much (they're usually quite powerful to begin with) and their quests spill into the realm of man. There is that eerie sensation in many Bond films that's similar to giant-monster-on-the-loose films: the forces of civilization are moseying along, when something rises from the depths to disturb them. Bond is called, but only to right the balance... and then, his job's done for the day ....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Stevie Walsh (Stephenw)
Username: Stephenw

Registered: 03-2009
Posted From: 86.24.62.55
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 06:11 pm:   

I see Bond more as an amoral pragmatist who, because he is incapable of love due to personal tragedy, has dedicated his life to his career. He's more Scrooge than Elric, imo. A cold shadow of a man who has only his professionalism and dedication to his work to give his life meaning. He is a tragic and ultimately pitiful figure but then aren't all anti-heroes?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hubert (Hubert)
Username: Hubert

Registered: 03-2008
Posted From: 178.116.60.39
Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 09:20 pm:   

"I thought Sean Connery put that across better than any other actor who has played the role"

Nobody does it better. I have read the original novels and Connery's portrayal is pretty seamless. Plus don't forget Fleming was still around wehn Connery hit the stage. After a couple films he started putting the Bond from Dr No into his novels, perhaps most notably in Thunderball.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration