| Author | Message | ||
     Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Finally I managed to see both Grindhouse films. As I posted last week, I thought "Planet Terror" was absolutely brillianr: fun, tacky, tasteless, incredibly violent, and exactly like the Italian exploitation films I loved so much in the 1980s. Last night it was "Death Proof". I expected to be lukewarm about this because of the bad rap it's getting from everyone, but to be honest I loved it. Coming on like a bleaker version of a Russ Meyer tough-women flick, this was funny, brutal (that car crash!), and suitably tacky. Kurt Russell was brilliant (as usual) as Stuntman Mike; Rosario Dawson was typically mesmerising. Again, this pushed all the same buttons as the films it was payng homage to - all those absurd 1970s car/sex/violence movies i used to love as a small Zed.  | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
"...i used to love as a small Zed"  | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Does anyone remember that 1970s trucker film with David Janssen (one of boyhood Zed's favourite actors), where he references that song about the little ducks swimming away over the dam? I think it was called "Hijack", but am not 100% sure. | ||
| Mick (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 85.158.137.195 |
"Boop, boop, diddum, daddum, waddum, shoo"! I really wanted to like DEATH PROOF, but found enough about it just too irritating - a few great scenes though, plus, as ever, a stunning soundtrack. | ||
| Tom English (Deadletterpress) Username: Deadletterpress Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 216.54.92.149 |
Zed, I vaguely remember this was a made-for-television movie (at least here in the States). Janssen was driving a semi and being pursued by (?) somebody who wanted what he was hauling. What was he hauling, anyway? My memory is a little better when it comes to "Moon of the Wolf" (a low-keyed werewolf movie) in which Janssen is the sheriff of a rural town. I think Janssen did several TV movies before doing Harry-O mysteries. Another movie I vaguely remember, starred James Brolin as a guy who gets mugged (and knocked unconscious) in the restroom of a huge department store. When he comes to, he finds the store has closed and everyone's gone home, and he's been locked in for the night -- with no one to keep him company but two vicious guard dogs trained to maul any after-hours visitors. Can't remember the title, but it was released around the same time as Hijacked. If I saw it today I might find it cheesy. When I was 12 or 13 it scared me silly. Hmmm, like Alien in a department store. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.198.116 |
I remember the James Brolin one - it was called DOBERMAN PATROL. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.198.116 |
I like Kurt Russell, but I have to say I'm in Mick's corner regarding DEATH PROOF. I thought it was dull and irritating. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 212.97.200.24 |
As noted elsewhere I preferred DEATH PROOF- but really enjoyed the zombie romp as well. And yes you can see the Russ Meyer influences. I really liked them both but thought there was some interesting stuff going on in Death Proof. | ||
| Tom English (Deadletterpress) Username: Deadletterpress Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 68.10.130.152 |
Thanks, Huw: I may try to find Doberman Patrol for old times' sake! --Tom | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
"Does anyone remember that 1970s trucker film with David Janssen" Speaking trucker films, anyone remember "BJ McKay and his best friend bear?" Also "...one of boyhood Zed's" | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Actually, I used to love "BJ and the Bear". I always wanted a chimp as a pet - perhaps that's where my chimp obsession began?  The show is even referenced in "Death Proof". | ||
| Tom English (Deadletterpress) Username: Deadletterpress Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 68.10.130.152 |
Uugghhhh, BJ and the Bear! I say "uugghhh" but I did watch it. "Rollin' down to Dallas, my wheels become my palace, down to New Orleans and who knows where...I'm BJ McKay and this is my best friend bear!" Unlike "Smokey (bear) and the Bandit" with Burt Reynolds (who was almost un-"bear"-able as the Bandit), the titular "Bear" of the series was a chimp. That's pretty excusable because I've got lots of friends who are chimps! --Tom | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
That's pretty excusable because I've got lots of friends who are chimps!  | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.244.142.189 |
Despite Kurt Russel doing another good job (when will he pair with Carpenter again?), I didn't finish watching Death Proof. It simply bored me, something that I never expected from a Tarantino movie... Great trucker movies: Duel, Joyride and especially, especally "Le salaire de la peur" - the original b&w one with the young Yves Montand, not the remake "Sorcerer" by Friedkin. | ||
| Jonathan (Jonathan) Username: Jonathan Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 91.143.178.131 |
I know what you mean Tom. I usually like Tarantino's stuff. Kill Bill was ace but Death Proof just left me cold. The script was a little too samey compared to other Tarantino films and I found the whole thing a bit self indulgent on his part. Russel was great and the stunt at the end was impressive but the film felt about 45 minutes too long. Have yet to see Planet Terror but it's on my list. | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.151.135.41 |
"...as a small Zed." You mean a zed? | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.20.53.161 |
I loved Death Proof. Tarantino might be a one-trick pony, but what a trick! | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.187.146 |
It was a trick that was worth watching the first two or three times, but which now has become tedious and self-indulgent. I used to think Tarantino was capable of more than endlessly referencing and copying other films, but I'm disappointed to have been proved wrong. Films like KILL BILL may seem cool and different to people who haven't seen the movies they seek to emulate, but for those of us who grew up watching the real thing, the relentless imitation wears thin rather quickly. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.244.142.189 |
I remember that Takeshi Kitano's Zatoichi was released roughly at the same time as Kill Bill 1. Well, in comparison to the superb Zatoichi, Kill Bill just crumbles away. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
I am quite possibly the only person on this planet that doesn't like the Kill Bill francise. I loath it. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.180.238 |
I didn't hate it, but it didn't do much for me. JACKIE BROWN was his last decent film, in my opinion. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
I read the book shortly before I watched the film. The main characters were exactly as they were in my minds eye! Spooked me out. Great film. | ||
| Tom_alaerts (Tom_alaerts) Username: Tom_alaerts Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.244.142.189 |
Yes, the Jackie Brown movie captures the feel of the Elmore Leonard book perfectly! I will now bring this statement forward: nobody writes dialogue as sparkling as Elmore Leonard ! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Films like KILL BILL may seem cool and different to people who haven't seen the movies they seek to emulate, but for those of us who grew up watching the real thing, the relentless imitation wears thin rather quickly. I have to disagree here, Huw. I've seen a lot of the original films, and still loved "Kill Bill". I think some people are missing the point with "Death Proof". It's meant to be schlocky and derivative, and the tone is deliberate - right down to the tedious bits (how many of the original 1970s films of this type didn't have long, tedious periods?). Tarantino wasn't trying to make the Great American Film when he put together "Death Proof"; he was goofing off, having a laugh with his mates. I guess you either enjoy the joke or you don't. I also maintain tha Tarantino does a lot more than simply reference other films. He takes ideas and images from films that have gone before and creates something fresh and new. Underneath the sylised violence and hip dialogue, there's a basic integrity to his work -and that, for me, makes a huge difference. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
"I will now bring this statement forward: nobody writes dialogue as sparkling as Elmore Leonard !" Tried any good recipes recently, Tom? *stomach rumbles* | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.180.238 |
Sorry, but we'll have to disagree here, Zed. I don't think there's anything fresh about his films any more. I know what he's trying to do, but I don't think he does it well (at least, not these days). It's just more and more of the same old boring, self-indulgent conversations and ripped-off sequences. And I honestly don't really see why anyone would spend a lot of money trying to make a film look grimy. It's all very contrived, and a bit pointless. He seems to be on a never-ending quest to be "hip". I wish he'd just do something original, or at least different, for once. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.185.119 |
We were speaking of road movies earlier on (or rather, "car' or "truck" movies) and I just remembered one I enjoyed back in the early eighties (I think) called ROAD GAMES. It had the always impressive Stacy Keach (even better in THE NINTH CONFIGURATION) in it - anyone remember this one? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Yeah, we're never going to agree on this one, Huw. But you know I'm right.  Seriously, though, I always wanted to see "Road Games". Didn't the director go on to make the much-better-than-expected "Psycho 2"? | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.177.49 |
I just checked IMDB, and you're right, he (Richard Franklin) did go on to direct PSYCHO 2. I agree it was a lot better than I thought it would be (the fact that I had a big crush on Meg Tilly at the time didn't hurt!). I wonder if ROADGAMES is available on DVD. This is probably a silly question, but have you seen THE NINTH CONFIGURATION, Zed? | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
You know, I've tried to watch THE NINTH CONFIGURATION twice now, but fell asleep both times. Every time it's been on TV, it's been in the early hours. I have the book, though, which I keep eaning to read. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.144.29.9 |
I watched Rendition t'other night....A good little thriller...But afterwards caught The Assassination Of Richard Nixon on TV. Now THAT was a good movie. Did Sean Penn get an Oscar? - if not, why not? gcw | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
That's rather an unfairly ignored film, GCW. Brilliant, isn't it? One of Penn's finest roles. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.20.53.161 |
Love Nixon. Hey, look at all these films I've seen! Watched NOTES ON A SCANDAL last night: oh my... | ||
| Mick (Mick) Username: Mick Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.161.171.30 |
Saw NOTES ON A SCANDAL on't plane out to Toronto last year. Nice little fillum. It's nigh on a year since we went to WorldCon. Where the hell did all that time go? | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
I read Notes on a Scandal. I thought it were rubbish. Gave my copy away to a charity shop after I finished it. | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 80.46.55.54 |
ROAD GAMES has just come out on DVD in the UK, along with Richard Franklin's first picture, PATRICK - the Australian CARRIE rip-off with a bizarre cast including ballet dancer Robert Helpmann as his doctor and the lovely Susan Penhaligon as a nurse. Of course the totally unconnected Italian rip-off follow-up PATRICK VIVE ENCORE (or something like that) is an absolute hoot | ||
| Joel (Joel) Username: Joel Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 86.151.135.41 |
"It's meant to be schlocky and derivative, and the tone is deliberate - right down to the tedious bits (how many of the original 1970s films of this type didn't have long, tedious periods?)." Zed, I'm sure you're right – but surely that's the whole problem. Those films were bad by accident, or at least by the inner logic of those without talent. A film that is bad by intention seems a truly strange idea. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
You see, I don't think those films were bad - schlocky, yes, but not bad. Likewise, I think "Death Proof" is good. A strange idea, yes, and one that was never going to appeal to anyone other than weirdos like me...which is why I'm amazed they got the money to make the Grindhouse project in the first place. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
One of the best criticisms of DEATH PROOF was the fact that it succeeded too successfully in immitating those movies. I'm not surprised he got funding though. The name Tarantino could be used to sell a grocery list. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.20.53.161 |
Those films are good because we remember them as good. That's surely what all these latter-day exercises in retro/nostalgia are about - an attempt by one generation to recreate the glorious rubbishness of its callow past. You might say the original material is subjectively good and objectively bad. The most terrifying thing I've ever seen - scarier than Ramsey, scarier than anything - is THE BOY FROM SPACE. Total shite, but for me it is magnificent. Mind you, none of this is any excuse to inflict one's idiosyncrasies on others. However, I personally loved the Tarantino and I was no fan of the original B-movies. Go figure. | ||
| Gcw (Gcw) Username: Gcw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 88.144.28.206 |
Tarantino's fims are a fine balance between fanboy worship & good movies. He doesn't always get it right (Kill Bill Vol.2 was uneven) but when he does, they are great films. Also, he gets great performances out of actors on the skids....take Bruce Willis & John Travolta in the (still) glorious Pulp Fiction. No one would touch Travolta at the time with a barge pole. Also, Robert Forster in Jackie Brown, who made up for a million shit TV movies with a dignified and fine performance. I think Tarantino had his eye on Stallone for Death Proof...A shame he didn't go for it. I expect the (sorta) success of Rambo 4 & Rocky Balboa has lifted his career enough so he wouldn't need an offer from Tarantino. Shame though. gcw | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
"You might say the original material is subjectively good and objectively bad." Nope, I personally found them lame in the extreme. I'm also not sure what criteria you'd use to determine a good movie per se. Some things might be fine for some "types" of movie but would be inappropriate for others. | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.203.130.245 |
The Bristol Vue Multiplex is showing the GRINDHOUSE double bill complete with all the trailers this weekend. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.184.90 |
Well, I saw PLANET TERROR finally, and I loved it. It's everything that DEATH PROOF isn't: simple, straightforward, unpretentious fun. I liked the music, too - it sounded like a blend of early John Carpenter, Mad Max and various zombie films' soundtracks. Nice to see such a big group of B-movie stalwarts (Michael Biehn, even Tom Savini!) amongst the cast - Jeff Fahey was especially good. | ||
| Gary Fry (Gary_fry) Username: Gary_fry Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 82.2.133.184 |
Saw ATONEMENT last night: great film. | ||
| Griff (Griff) Username: Griff Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 195.93.21.100 |
Bit of a contrast! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Huw - I'm so glad you liked PLANET TERROR. I loved it. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.194.103 |
Zed, I thought it was great fun. The saxophone bits in the film's music reminded me of MAD MAX: BEYOND THUNDERDOME. One thing's bugging me, though: how the hell did she fire that gun? She had no control over the trigger! | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.203 |
Sigh. I put this on last night rubbing my hands together with anticipation (I have a high shit threshold) but ... fell asleep and had to rewind and watch bits again. It really was a huge struggle for me. Soooo much seriously tedious dialogue, tension that left the piece the longer it went on, and a second series of characters and actresses at the halfway mark that were less interesting than the first. And - the tone of the film changed halfway, too; the first half had this beautiful patina of age, huge swathes of perfectly judged nostalgia that bled from every frame. Every scratch and shift in colour quality was like a jewel of emotion, every glitch in the sound and unevenness of recording quality just felt like something only experienced when watching something genuinely old; it was as if Tarantino had found a way to time travel and brought us along. I could have taken a full film of this quality - it had a wistful feel, one that heightened the triviality of the conversation to almost a level of poetry, elegy. Lots of this first half made me sigh, but the minute that black-and-white footage came in I sort of switched off. It was like the history of movies; slickness crept in, technical accomplishment, skill. And it showed what little power this has. Funny; it reminded me of Be Kind Rewind, showing how surface quality in film (or a lack of it) matters most supremely. Perhaps an interesting lesson, but little more. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
Tony, you should see PLANET TERROR. It looks exactly like a third-generation VHS. Every scratch, colour-bloom and picture judder makes you ache for your youth. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.203 |
Will do. I hear it's a more consistent film. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 218.168.193.32 |
I found PLANET TERROR infinitely more enjoyable than DEATH PROOF, Tony. I was expecting to like the latter more beforehand, partly because I like Kurt Russell a lot, and partly because I'd heard from a (usually) reliable source that it was the stronger of the two. It ended up being just too draggy and self-indulgent for my liking. PLANET TERROR was fun. It really made me laugh in places (always a welcome thing) and because there wasn't an endless series of 'meaningful' Tarantino conversations to bog it down, I was able to just sit back and enjoy it for what it was. I don't know if Tarantino is getting less interesting or if it's me not being as tolerant of this kind of thing as I used to be. I liked his first few films (especially PULP FICTION) but I haven't been very impressed with anything he's done in the last few years, although I liked parts of KILL BILL, especially the second film (oddly as most seem to prefer the first installment). Anyone know what QT has planned next? Is he still making INGLORIOUS BASTARDS? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.203 |
I think he was less interesting in this film. The dialogue was practically soporific. It was like hearing words but not understaning them, they were so boring. It was almost scary, that experience, like I was catching alzheimers. | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.96.240.83 |
It's weird how much I disagree with you chaps. I thought it was great. Kurt Russel has always been a favourite of mine - a very underrated actor - and it was a joy to see him revelling in this role. I found the dialogue intersting, and loved the fact that we got to see a lot of unlikeable women running the show rather than your typical male "anti-heroes". Yeah, I liked it. Huw - I also preferred KILL BILL 2 to the first film. I love both, but the western stylings of the second installment clinched it for me. >>how the hell did she fire that gun? She had no control over the trigger!<< That's an interesting question. if the stump was higher up, I'd have a decent suggestion, but the leg was cut off at the knee. :-o | ||
| John_l_probert (John_l_probert) Username: John_l_probert Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 90.203.130.163 |
"That's an interesting question. if the stump was higher up, I'd have a decent suggestion, but the leg was cut off at the knee. :-o " Ah - now Zed you disappoint me. Never mind the fact that her amputation is higher than that, if you've listened carefully to Robert Rodriguez's commentary you'd know the answer to that one. In fact it's going to form the basis of one of my questions in this year's departmental Christmas quiz. I could keep you guessing, but Rodriguez basically says -'I don't know - maybe Kegel exercises?' Which in the good old UK are better known as pelvic floor exercises. So now you know | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 61.216.34.15 |
Useful to know, in the event that there is a zombie invasion and one needs need an emergency amputation... I wonder if a rocket launcher would work as well? Or would you need Pilates for that? | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.44.101.203 |
I just missed a sense of dread in Death Proof, or tension. There was only a couple of moments that came a little close, but nothing memorable. Sad because I did like that first half quite a bit. And as Hitch said; film is a visual medium; dialogue can be actually be dropped but not what we need to see. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 217.23.233.246 |
To reply to Zed from the Dead Set thread - (!) - I don't know why I didn't like these films. Looking at them they were just my cup of tea, and i was ac6tually excited about seeing them. I just felt like I was watching a party through a window, seeing the fun but not being part of it, or being able to hear it. I really really WANTED to like them but did get bored - I felt like I could predict the next scene from the previous one, had seen every inch of them before somewhere. If it means anything I'm just as puzzled that you like them! | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
But that's the point: they are homage/pastiche. They are meant to be utterly familiar. I loved them because they took me back to my youth, when I'd watch third-generation VHS copies of dodgy Italian gore films and US sleaze-fests. I liked them becaue they returned me to a time when that kind of crap seemed important. :-/ | ||
| Zed (Gary_mc) Username: Gary_mc Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 213.219.8.243 |
I felt like I could predict the next scene from the previous one, had seen every inch of them before somewhere. That's the sole reaon the Grindhouse films exist. To make you feel like that.  | ||
| Weber_gregston (Weber_gregston) Username: Weber_gregston Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 83.98.9.4 |
I managed to see the full Grindhouse thing at the cinema. i loved it pretty much for the reasons Tony hated it. Oh well. | ||
| Allybird (Allybird) Username: Allybird Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 79.70.11.219 |
Of course I'm going to defend the Kill Bill films - loads of great performances by women. I agree with Zed (don't have a go at me Zed)about the pastiche/homage. Brilliant films! Missed Kurt Russell the other night in BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA - another fun packed adventure film. | ||
| Karim Ghahwagi (Karim) Username: Karim Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 204.104.55.244 |
I loved BTILC- I should really see that again. | ||
| Huw (Huw) Username: Huw Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 61.216.33.194 |
Big Trouble in Little China is a really enjoyable movie, and was unfairly mauled by critics on release (if I remember correctly). I think it grows with each viewing, too - I watch the DVD often (the commentary with Carpenter and Russell is well worth listening to). | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.114.136 |
Nay!!!! Kill Bill 1 and 2 were fine, 1 being the amazing one. You see, for me now QT pays too much homage to the past and junk culture. He's too in awe of it to let himself free. Also, those old movies the DP and PT hark back to used to scare me a bit, and feel demented. These didn't I felt. In fact with both I nodded off and had to rewind. I'm dising anyone's taste, just wishing I could enjoy them. | ||
| Tony (Tony) Username: Tony Registered: 03-2008 Posted From: 81.157.114.136 |
But can I put in word for rose McGowan? She's beautiful, and the best thing in both movies, especially PT. |